Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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dmitch
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Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:29 am

This is my first post, please correct me if i should not be in line with forum rules.

I plan on building a workstation for photo editing. Primary concerns (assuming decent performance) are storage and silence. I will need one storage HDD, two internal backup HDDs, the latter will only be mounted for backup dutys. Also, I already own an i5 4430. I don't care for over clocking (I might engage in some undervolting) and I'm pretty sure there is no necessity for a discrete GPU.
In theory, this would allow for just about any form factor, as long as the case can hold three HDDs and an SSD. For ITX, I considered the FD Node 304, for ATX the FD R4 (PCGH edition) and the Nanoxia DS 3. For the R4 and DS 3 I am comfortable using a custom rubber band solution to prevent hard drive noise.
Given these restrictions, which form factor and case would give me the most silent system? (Of course, I am also open for any suggestions that differ from the three cases mentioned above).

Further parts i considered: Scythe Kotetsu, Crucial VLP ram, Asus Z97i-Plus (if ITX), be quiet! Dark Power Pro 10. Backup HDDs would be WD Reds, the storage hard disk (photo library) I'm not sure about.

Thanks for helping me out!

thierry.
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by thierry. » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:54 am

Hi dmitch and welcome here,

I'm adding my comments and you will certainly get more experienced guys, passing by.

Between the Node 304 and FD R4, I don't think there would be much of difference concerning the CPU dissipation.
Using the tower cooler Scythe Kotetsu, the Node 304 should be able to handle it.

But you are planning 3 HDDs, which might do the difference.
It will be easier to suspend them in the R4, than in the Node 304.


After reading around for many months, my preference goes to small factor, because they can handle some power and they seem to have a good airflow path.
Unless in need of 3 PCI cards, 5 HDDs, 2 DVD burners, etc... I don't see the need, today, to use ATX format. (it's my own opinion).

Also, you are not using a graphic card, so why thinking of the R4?


(thanks for the Scythe Kotetsu in your list, I'm going to add to mine. It seems better than HR-02 Macho. :wink: )

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:17 am

Hi thierry, thanks for your advice!
I was only considering the R4/Nanoxia DS3 because I wanted to be sure to get the system as silent as possible. My concern with the Node 304 is the side intake: Since I don't have a graphics card I would guess I don't need it, however I have not found thread where someone moded/dampened/closed the intake.
Of course I would like to go smaller, but I would refrain from it, if I had to sacrifice silence. Other contenders could be the Nanoxia DS4 and maybe a Cooltek/Jonsbo case, but I did not find high level reviews for them (especially not about noise). Does anyone have any experience with them?
Concerning the PSU I should add, that I aim for the 550Watt (even though I might not need all the power).

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Abula » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:02 am

All 3hdd need to be 3.5? No SSD?

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:07 am

Abula wrote:All 3hdd need to be 3.5? No SSD?
Indeed I aim for one SSD, one storage drive for photos and two drives to backup the photos. Since the photo library is bigger than 1 TB, I opted for 3.5'' drives (better TB/Euro ratio).

Abula
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Abula » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:17 am

dmitch wrote:
Abula wrote:All 3hdd need to be 3.5? No SSD?
Indeed I aim for one SSD, one storage drive for photos and two drives to backup the photos. Since the photo library is bigger than 1 TB, I opted for 3.5'' drives (better TB/Euro ratio).
There are now bigger 2.5 drives, like Hitachi 5k1500 (1.5TB) or Samsung M9T (2TB), that said 3.5 still is better in terms of price/size. But i was wondering since you seem to want to suspend drives, if it was only 2x 3.5 you could also consider Antec Solo II, which comes with a rubber suspension for 2 drives, pretty good for not doing much, but you still need 3x 3.5 hdds it wont work unless you mod to do more on the bottom or chose a 2.5 hdds for the 3rd hdd.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:20 am

Welcome to SPCR.

Any of the cases would be pretty quiet. The stock Fractal 304 and R4 would be a little louder than the DS3. If you go ATX, an Antec Solo II would be even quieter. If you swap out the stock Fractal fans, then the R4 would be on par with the other two ATX cases. The 304, maybe. If you do go with the 304, note the clearance issues with HDD cables and the CPU cooler as you might have to place the fan on the same side as the case fan.

PSU: Your power needs are small. Stress load of 84W CPU, ~30W for mobo and fans, 60W if all HDDs spin up at the same time -> 175W. More likely scenario of 140W or less at start up. A 150W Pico PSU might cut it. 500W class is overkill.

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:01 pm

Thanks for your advice, CA_Steve and Abula!
Given its age, I was not expecting that the Antec Solo II is still considered the most quiet case. Since at least one of the backup HDDs will only be mounted once a day, the Antecs setup with two suspend drives should suffice. If the third drive would bother me to much, I can always put it in one the 5,25 inch bays.
It's great to know that i have flexibility on the PSU. I just had some irrational urge towards the be quiet!.

Two further questions: Since CA_Steve was comparing stock setups: Leaving behind stock configuration, is there a consensus about which case can be modified to be the quietest? Can you recommend some reading on that topic?

And a third one: I have crush on the Cooltek UMX2/Rosewill Legacy MX2 (the other Jonsbo cases have sleek looks as well). In theory the bottom intake, top exhaust should give decent thermal performance. Does anyone have experience/a hunch about the acoustic performance of these cases?

Again, your advice is very much appreciated!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:29 pm

Here's a generic answer. You'll have a silent cpu cooler. Go with a passive or semi-passive PSU. Change out case fans as needed and you'll have a silent case..except for seek noise on the WD Reds...and those are pretty quiet.

The build thread in my signature may provide some useful info.

As far as the 3rd HDD goes, if it's just used once per day as a backup, you might consider an external eSATA enclosure that you can power up/down.

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:55 am

Thanks for your thoughts and recommendations. I went with the Antec Solo II (with preinstalled dampening from Caseking.de), Asus Z97 Pro Wifi ac, i5 4430, Scythe Kotetsu, Crucial Ballistix Tactical (LP), an already owned 400W PSU and a 3TB WD Red. I will add more drives when I'm sure on how I want the setup to be (one disk for cloning, one for incremental backup).
I will report details when the build is finished.

P.S.: Your build thread was a good read, CA_Steve, thanks!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:52 am

Glad to be of help. Enjoy your build!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Telstar » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:38 pm

CA_Steve wrote: As far as the 3rd HDD goes, if it's just used once per day as a backup, you might consider an external eSATA enclosure that you can power up/down.
This. Or since most of those enclosures are cheap crap, a good hotswap bay will work best.
Nobody said an important thing about backup drives: to last longer and be safer they should NOT be powered on all the time. If the backup needs to be done daily or even more often, then consider two drives in raid1 is a better option. And go for the WD reds.

thierry.
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by thierry. » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:17 am

Telstar wrote:If the backup needs to be done daily or even more often, then consider two drives in raid1 is a better option.
I hope you are not suggesting Raid 1, as a backup plan... (Or I misunderstood)
When you delete a file by accident on disk 1, it is also deleted on disk 2. Your "backup-Raid" is useless.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Telstar » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:26 am

thierry. wrote:
Telstar wrote:If the backup needs to be done daily or even more often, then consider two drives in raid1 is a better option.
I hope you are not suggesting Raid 1, as a backup plan... (Or I misunderstood)
When you delete a file by accident on disk 1, it is also deleted on disk 2. Your "backup-Raid" is useless.
I was suggesting it in addition to the backup, to do it less often (like every 2 days).

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by xan_user » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:04 am

raid is for 100% uptime and/or for increased speed, it should not be used as a backup.

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Fri May 08, 2015 7:48 am

Again, thanks for all the advice. Small update: I am using an old hp DPS-300AB PSU which is acceptable but definitely not quite. Since my room has a very low noise floor, I am looking for an appropriate upgrade. As suggested before, the maximum power draw would be around 175 W.
However I also plan to go 4ksome time in the future. While I am not totally sure, I would assume that the hd 4600 will not drive 4k properly at 60Hz. A graphics card that would fit my needs would be the 960, however I consider skipping one generation and hoping that the successor of the 960 will ship with 4GB (only gaming need is LoL).
So, I will need some headroom in my PSU for a possible successor of the 960. Given my location (Germany): What would you recommend? (I am willing to spend some extra bucks for better quality/lower nice).
Thanks for your help!

Edit: It's a hp DPS-300AB-20 D to be more precise. Another idea would be to swap the fan (80mm). Any recommendation on that?

Second Edit: Not sure if I should take this question to then PSU section? Maybe an admin can give me some guidance? Thanks a lot!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Tue May 12, 2015 12:33 pm

The safe bet is to get a decent gold or platinum PSU in the 500-550W class if fanned - not because you need that much power as any single gpu system will draw less than 300W, but because the fan profile will be shallow/silent/quiet at your loads. Or, go with a fanless 400-460W class PSU (just make sure it has a couple of PCI graphics adapers). How much do you want to spend?

As far as replacing the existing fan - you'd need to open up the PSU and get the fan's make and model #. Then, it's a question of whether or not the fan specs are available online somewhere and if there's a better replacement.

Might as well keep this thread going - as it has all the useful info here :)

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Tue May 12, 2015 12:53 pm

Hey Steve, thanks for stopping by. :-)
I guess I would go with the fanned version then. This will hopefully prevent coil whine issues and help circumvent some of the air flow issues the Antec II Solo might have down the road (with a GPU installed; I should point out that I bought the case with additional dampening).
I am willing to spend about 150€. If there is something I am missing out on by setting this (soft) price ceiling please let me know.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by quest_for_silence » Tue May 12, 2015 1:06 pm

dmitch wrote:Any recommendation on that?

AC F8, Nexus Basic, Noctua R8, but check the current rating and the starting voltage of the stock fan.

dmitch wrote:I am willing to spend about 150€. If there is something I am missing out on by setting this (soft) price ceiling please let me know.

For a GTX-960 like GPU, I guess that picking anything more expensive than a BeQuiet Straight Power E10 400W is a not rational option (though the 500W CM version is needed if modular cabling were mandatory).

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Tue May 12, 2015 1:30 pm

quest_for_silence wrote: For a GTX-960 like GPU, I guess that picking anything more expensive than a BeQuiet Straight Power E10 400W is a not rational option (though the 500W CM version is needed if modular cabling were mandatory).
The E10 should be well within the budget. Since I was not that happy with my initial cable management I might go with the 500W CM version. Do i recall correctly, that the BeQuiet models have their fan always running? If so, what "semi-fanless" PSU would you recommend as an alternative?
Thanks again!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Tue May 12, 2015 1:32 pm

The E10's fan runs at ~190 rpm at low loads - there is no way you will hear that over the other components.

dmitch
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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Tue May 12, 2015 2:06 pm

CA_Steve wrote:The E10's fan runs at ~190 rpm at low loads - there is no way you will hear that over the other components.
Since the hdds are only running on demand the loudest parts would be the Antec TrueQuiet (one at about 300 rpm) and the Scythe fans (two at about 580 rpm). If I would replace the Scythes with Noctuas: Would the E10 still be a good fit? (a lot of plans in the back of my head, should have been more clear earlier on, sorry.)

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by CA_Steve » Tue May 12, 2015 3:35 pm

<shrugs> I think it would be lost amongst the others. <200rpm is generally inaudible. Hard to be definitive without a reviewed unit :)

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed May 13, 2015 4:42 am

dmitch wrote:If so, what "semi-fanless" PSU would you recommend as an alternative?

Currently almost no one: there's the RM-series from Corsair, but quality-wise they leave a lot to be desired, though a new, revamped series is coming.

Then there's the Super Flower Leadex Gold 650W, or its predecessor Golden King 550 (now EOL but some are still available).
There are others (mostly Seasonics/XFXs, EVGAs) but IMHO they are not really preferable to the RM or the SF, noise-wise.

If I were you, alternatively to a fanned unit (like the E10, or the more expensive Enermax Platimax), I would think more to a fanless Super Flower Golden Silent (either the 500W or the 430W), rather than to any of those "start/stop" things.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Abula » Wed May 13, 2015 4:09 pm

In my case, an Antec True Quiet 140, drops down to 200rpms on an Asus Maximus Gene VI,

Image

And SPCR Second 140 mm Fan Roundup: Antec, bequiet!, Corsair, Scythe also has 194rpms as the minimum,

Image

Give that all samples vary some, you should be able to reach close, either way i doubt you can hear the 300rpms, i suspect its another thing, you can try stopping the fan to see if you continue to hear the same noise.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Sun May 17, 2015 8:19 am

Ok, thanks guys!
I ordered the BeQuiet E 10 500 MW. With the graphs you posted I don't get information about how low the fans will go with the UEFI settings right? (I am bound to use the UEFI settings since I am running OS X and could not find a reliable tool to tweak the fan settings therein)
Second question: Since my case has additional dampening, the top exhaust of the Antec Solo II is covered with foam. Should I rather remove it and let the E10 pull air from the outside (having the E10s fair at the top) or turn the PSU by 180 degrees and have the fan pull the air from inside the case (usually about 30 degrees celsius or a delta of 10 degrees)?

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Abula » Sun May 17, 2015 10:05 am

dmitch wrote:With the graphs you posted I don't get information about how low the fans will go with the UEFI settings right? (I am bound to use the UEFI settings since I am running OS X and could not find a reliable tool to tweak the fan settings therein)
UEFI/Bios will depend totally on the restrictions that the manufacturer set up for each header, and not all motherboards are equal. Even if the Anteq True Quiet 140 can reach 200rpms, if the UEFI doesnt allow it wont go as low. There other factors to consider like starting voltage, for a software fan control is not much of an issue, as the computer boots up with 100% and then gives control to the OS/Software, so it starts 100% and then its lowered to whatever the software allows, in the case of the pictures above FANXPERT2. Now on UEFI is not as simple, for example the Antec True quiet 140, is stable at 200rpms, but wont start at those rpms, it has to start a little higher, making it harder to setup on bios, if it doesnt have mulitple breakpoints, it makes it so you have to go higher to guarantee the start of the fan. For example on CA_Steve setup, the Antec True Quiet 140 and MSI bios setup, the lowest he could achive was around 400rpms.

For me pure bios fan control, specially for being not dependent of the OS/Software, the best in my experience was MSI, but still has its limitations, and specially you do need to understand how each fan header works. It works particularly well with pure PWM fans and PWM headers, as it allows fans like Noctuas to drop to 200rpms, and stablish the graphs into how they ramp up depending on the CPU temp. On 3pin voltage fans, it works well but the lowest it can reach is around 50%, which is not bad, but not as low as it can with PWM, which is 12.5%. Another good option is AsRock, not personally tested, but from what i seen it has a solid bios fan control.
dmitch wrote:Second question: Since my case has additional dampening, the top exhaust of the Antec Solo II is covered with foam. Should I rather remove it and let the E10 pull air from the outside (having the E10s fair at the top) or turn the PSU by 180 degrees and have the fan pull the air from inside the case (usually about 30 degrees celsius or a delta of 10 degrees)?
This is something for you to decide, on AnteC Solo II, i have the passive Seasonic X400 facing up with the vent open, but this was how Seasonic recommends the PSU to be placed, as most of its cooling is passive and raising air. If the PSU is quiet, you shouldnt have any issues facing it up, but if its noticeble, its a very open side where you will likely hear it, so test it and see what works better for you.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by dmitch » Tue May 19, 2015 2:57 pm

Ok. I installed the E 10 with the fan facing downwards (pulling air from the CPU upwards) left the dampening material in place and am quite happy with that. However (as some may have expected) the Scythe Glidestream which is installed in the lower front intake will not run slower than about 620 rpm on UEFI on my Asus Z97 Pro and therefore is audible.
While I acknowledge that every setup is different, are there some general guidelines by which I could proceed? As you recommended Noctuas: Which model would be preferable for the front intake? Also, if I should choose to switch the CPU fan (Kotetsu stock), which particular model might run at low speeds with UEFI?
Thanks again, will post some pictures when the build is finalised!

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by Abula » Tue May 19, 2015 4:59 pm

In my experience, with Asus Maximus VI GENE among other asus motherboards, their UEFI isn't that great in terms of fan control, specially because it has very high restrictions on fan headers that are not the CPU_FAN, meaning CHA_FAN1,2,3, all these restrictions are wiped down by FanXpert2, but pure bios, for me Asus had way to high limits, that made the fans not able to drop low enough to my personal liking, you can check my post i did a about it on the Asus forums, ASUS Bios fan control request . But i never tested newer asus, like Z97/H97 to know if they improved the UEFI on fan control.

My suggestion is try wtih the included fan, the Antec Solo II comes with a Antec True Quiet 120, which is an ok fan, plug it to CHA_FAN (1,2 or 3), and start testing the the lowest you can achieve, from there see whats the lowest and if you are comfortable with that, Scythe Gentle Typhoons are pretty nice fans imo, you have a multiple options, 500rpms, 800rpms, 1150rpms, 1450rpms and 1850rpms, all of the drop to around 300rpms, that doesn't mean the motherboard will allow, just that fan is capable, chose according once you test the true quiet into how much it goes down, and try to get something similar or lower in rpms on the Scythe Gentle Typhoons. Personally i would suggest the 800rpm or 1150 if you need a little more cooling, but i expect the motherboard to at least lower them to around 500rpms or so, where they should be inaudible.

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Re: Recommendation on silent case/form factor w. 3HDD

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu May 21, 2015 11:56 am

Abula wrote:But i never tested newer asus, like Z97/H97 to know if they improved the UEFI on fan control.

I forgot to comment, mate.

Newer ASUS UEFI (though I played just with a pair of H97) has the usual 50% restriction on "manual mode" for DC case fans, while it's 20% for PWM ones (custom fan curves with multiple trigger points), and you can stop the case fans under under 20°C.
Given I have mostly 3-pin case fans, I haven't actually used the more flexible PWM setup, but I'm confident it should be "better" than the DC one.

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