Lian-Li PC-62 case with 80mm fans... or could it be imroved?

[alexb]

I have an older Lian-li case PC-62, http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-62/, where I build a basic older AMD system a few years back.

I then moved onto an HTPC, and now getting rid of that HTPC and was thinking of re-using the PC-62 and to build a quiet (not silent) system to do the following:

- Main office PC
- Light gaming
- Media Server for my living/bed room, so I could play my video/music from everywhere

I plan on running Core i5, SSD/HDD combo, Radeon 7700 Video card, and the best fans I can find for this case. I really like this case, however, the problem is that it only uses 80mm fans, and the front fans operate via a switch to slow down/speed-up. I'd like to automate them all... so, if I am playing games, and I generate more heat, I want ALL fans to operate at full speed (CPU, Video Card, rear exhaust, top exhaust, front fans), and then for them to completely quiet down when it's idle, or serving media. I have the following questions:

1. Is this case just never going to fit the quiet needs? If so, what nice Aluminium case could do?
2. Which fans are recommended?
3. Which motherboard, or fan controller could make this all automated via tempreture control?

Thanks!

[quest_for_silence]

- Light gaming

I don't want to steal Steve jokes, but there is not such a thing as a light gaming.
Anyway, it'd better to state WHICH actual videocard.

I have the following questions:

1. Is this case just never going to fit the quiet needs? If so, what nice Aluminium case could do?

Short answers are: no and no one (IMO, of course).

2. Which fans are recommended?

For the 80mm holes, the usual SPCR favourites: Nexus Basic, Noctua R8, AC F8. The latter two may come even in a PWM flavour (while Nexus PWM is a different, less quiet fan).

3. Which motherboard, or fan controller could make this all automated via tempreture control?

Any Intel Extreme-series, any Haswell ASRock, any H97/Z97 ASUS would be all fine choices to do that in BIOS or Windows.

[alexb]

Hehe, thanks... Ok, by light gaming I mean I don't care to run everything at 1080P Max settings... leaning towards an i7-4770 or i5-4670, both have very low power consumption... the video card is MSI, will post shortly the exact model, but that damn thing is freaking loud, and in my old system is by far the loudest component... need to throttle it down.

So, for the case, you're basically suggesting this case won't do it, and none of the Alu ones would do either, right?

[quest_for_silence]

Hehe, thanks... Ok, by light gaming I mean I don't care to run everything at 1080P Max settings...

But even at lower resolutions/less eye candys you can't tell to the videocard to do it slowly.
One of the best thing noise-wise, with reference to your current setup, would be a passive R7 250 (roughly equivalent to 7750), but then you do need a better airflow than the PC-62 one, and besides usually you can't game well at 1080P with a 7750/R7 250, at least with either contemporary (and forthcoming) major titles, or the most demanding past ones.

So, for the case, you're basically suggesting this case won't do it, and none of the Alu ones would do either, right?

I gave you the "short answers": the long story is that everything can be done, more or less satisfactorily.
About the current PC62, the right way would be modding the case cutting proper holes for bigger fans, but actually you don't have room to do that, but on top, to let a 120/140mm PSU fan to breath from outside. So in the end you may just open a proper inlet for the current fans, and *maybe* a further one for a second 80mm exhaust fan, but given the small size it shouldn't worth that much, with reference to thermals.
Not to mention that even with a perfectly done work, you will definitely loose the sleek appearance you like so much (I guess you like it).

About any other alternative aluminium enclosure, I can't even tell the "long story", as full specs are needed to work out more or less meaningful advices: but as a rule of thumb any aluminium enclosure will run more or less noisier than a comparable steel (or acrilyc) one.

[Pappnaas]

As for the Vidoeocard think about getting a GTX 750 or 750i. Those modells are considerably more powerful while generating considerably less noise.

Silencing a 7700 might end up being more costly than selling the card and getting a new one.

[SebRad]

With enough effort you can do anything!
You might like to look at what I've done with my CoolerMaster 201, which is a similar aluminium case.
viewtopic.php?p=502878
http://silentpcreview.com/forums/viewto ... 15&t=62993

Case now houses an i7-2600k with GTX560Ti video card and is very quiet at idle and game playing loads.
Some pics in this thread: http://silentpcreview.com/forums/viewto ... 19&t=63684
Combination of Furmark and Prime95 is more stressful and results in fan noise.

The fans are controlled from the motherboard, with Speedfan.

I would suggest keys are hard drive isolation/damping (or SSDs) and fan control. At boot the BIOS sets the fans to 50% and is quiet but once Speedfan loads and turns the fans right down the noise just disappears.

Cutting out the rear fan grill(s) is obvious but getting enough air intake is also very important, taller feet and holes n the floor is what I did, works without significantly affecting the look. In your place I would avoid modding the front of the case, which looks so restrictive to be near useless, due to the difficulty of not spoiling the look. You might be braver/ more skilled, for my case changing the front filter for fine mesh was easy and reversible too.

Good luck, Seb

[CA_Steve]

Light gaming is like being a light drinker. It's all about perspective.

You don't list any apps that can make use of an i7. If you want to save $'s, go for a speedy i3. A lot of games don't use more than 2 cores, and seldom use more than 4. Unless your office apps include 3D modeling, a lot of video editing, or similar high CPU power use, an I5 or i7 is overkill there. At the most, go for an i5.

The usual negative about aluminum cases vs steel is the lesser weight means less dampening for vibration induced noise. If the components are quiet/silent, then there's no big negative. Things to watch for are HDD mounts, fan mounts, PSU dampening, is the case itself sturdy, etc. In specific, it's tougher to cool systems silently with 80mm fans than it is with 120 or 140mm ones (call me Mr. Obvious). Your power load isn't that big (say i5 + 7770 class gfx card), call it 150W gaming, 190W stress load. But, the fan airflow does look fairly restrictive. Might take significant modding and different fans if mobo control of existing fans don't provide sufficiant cooling at requested noise level.

You could get away with the HD 7770 for 1080p with dialed down picture quality (ymmv game to game). Min frame rates could be low in some games. As mentioned, replacing it's cooler for a quieter one will run you $50 or more. Trading up to something like the Asus GTX 750 Ti STRIX would cost ~$165, provide a decent bump in performance at the same power use and be silent for 2D use and very quiet in 3D.

Figure out your component list and go from there. If you have the time, you can try the build in the current case with mobo fan control and see if it meets your needs. If it doesn't, then spend the money for a new case.

[MikeC]

Light gaming is like being a light drinker. It's all about perspective.

If I was going to reuse that case for a quiet <200W build, I'd start by cutting. Cut away the grill on the 80mm back vent. Cut a second 80mm vent next to it. Cut 2 140mm holes on the bottom, closer to the front than back. Make sure the feet are at least 1" tall, and preferably not on carpet. Install Antec True Quiet 140mm fans on the bottom as intakes. Put a screen across them to filter dust (and clean this periodically). Install quiet 80mm fans as exhaust on the back. Remove ALL the PCI slot covers -- they will become exhausts, mostly, which you need.

Replace front fans -- I'm sure they're noisy. The front vents are highly restrictive, and best removed but this will spoil the look unless you're good with tools, so just running the front fans slowly might keep the noise down. Don't use the lowest drive cage -- this will reduce airflow. Alternatively, the new bottom fans might give you enough airflow.

SSD for OS. If you need high capacity storage, use a high capacity 5400 or 5900 rpm drive suspended in one of the optical drive bays.

Heed others advice above.

Off to my morning drink now -- coffee that is.

EDIT -- I like your mods, SebRab!

[quest_for_silence]

With enough effort you can do anything!

EDIT -- I like your mods, SebRab!

Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities, because, as has been said, 'it is the quality which guarantees all others.'

[Abula]

1. Is this case just never going to fit the quiet needs? If so, what nice Aluminium case could do?

Personally i find cases help to dampen some, and while aluminium is not as good, if you chose quiet components shouldn't matter much. I have built a lot on lian li cases, i love their finish, and as long as you chose carefully the components you can end up with very quiet setup.

2. Which fans are recommended?

Hard to say as new 80mm are barely used in todays pcs, but if i had to bet on one i would go with Noctua NF-R8 Redux 1200 80MM Ultra Quiet Cooling Fan 1200RPM 35.8m3/h 9.1dBA 3 Pin $12.99 CAD, and grab a motheboard that can undervolt fine 3pin. Or if you decide to go full PWM, then i would go with Noctua NF-R8 Redux 1800 PWM 80MM Quiet Cooling Fan 325-1800RPM 4 Pin Molex $12.99 CAD

3. Which motherboard, or fan controller could make this all automated via tempreture control?

I like MSI bios fan control, i personally like more the minimalist approach than having software running, but thats just my opinion. A board that has caught my eyes in terms of price, looks and features is the MSI H97 GAMING 3 LGA 1150 Intel H97 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard.

With it you will have multiple approach on the fans, if you go 3pin noctuas, you can use the SYS_FAN headers to control each fan individually, with the amendment that this headers can only drop the voltage to 50%, thus i expect the noctua fans to drop around 800rpms or so, where for its size they should be quiet.

The second option is to go full pwm, grabbing a PWM fan splilter like Swiftech 8W-PWM-SPL-ST 8 Way PWM Splitter With SATA Connector $14.99 CAD, its safe to conect the 3 case fans you will probably have, as it grabs the power directly from the PSU SATA POWER, and just simply uses the PWM signal to drive the fans rpms. The advantage of this method is that the MSI motherboard on bios allows the PWM fans to be drop to 12.5% (thats if the fan can drop as low), this should drop them incredible low, in my experience with most notcuas is below 400rpms. The disadvantage over the above is that you don't have individual control, all fans act as one, all go up or down depending on the temperature but at the same rate, still the board im suggesting has 2 real PWM fan headers, CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2, so you can have 2 different settings, as i did, one for my case fan and one for my CPU fan.

As a final comment, i agree with steve, i think ASUS GeForce GTX 750 Ti Strix 1124MHZ 2GB 5.4GHZ GDDR5 DVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Video Card $179.99 CAD should be a very good option, specially considering it will be fully passive when you are not gaming, and still very quiet while gaming, the gpu is very efficient and doesn't get hot, this should help with the limited air circulation the case has. Be sure to consider adding an SSD, specially with the prices of the Crucial MX100, imo the best ssd for the money atm.

[alexb]

Thanks for all the help guys, I really don't think I wanna go lower spec than 7700, as you guys said, there's no such thing as light gaming. My current card is MSI R7770, it's one with 1GB DDR5. I tried my best to get a quiet one, but MSI and others literally make different variations of exact same cards that makes it impossible to know which is which until it arrives at your door.

In terms of needing i7, I probably don't, but when I look at i7-4770, it has really amazing power consumption for the processing power. The one case that it comes handy is when I wanna encode with Handbrake, otherwise, an i5 should do. Besides, I love fast running PCs, hate wasting time... another option is AMD 8350.

So, at the end of the day it comes down to cost vs. needs. It's very difficult to unload desktop parts these days, so I am trying to re-use as much of my already acquired components and just do a motherboad/CPU swap, plus new fans to make it work. Now, if this is basically not possible with current setup, I need to find the most cost efficient way to upgrade to where I wanna be. So, here's a list of all components that I have, Video Card being the loudest, albeit, I can't go below 7700 GPU power!

PC1:
- Lian-Li PC-62 case
- 2* Panaflo 80mm fans, 2 stock 80mm fans
- 500 GB 7200RPM WD
- Seasonic 380 watts - pretty quiet
- OLD AMD Setup - too old for now must go

PC2:
- Antec Fusion HTPC case
- Intel 520 SSD - 180GB
- Hitachi 5400 RPM HDD - 3TB [pretty quiet]
- AMD Athlon X4-640
- MSI 890GX motherboard
- 4GB RAM
- MSI 7770 GPU
- Seasonic 450 watts - pretty quiet

Plan was to get a new mobo/CPU for the PC1, swap out the Video card/SSD/HDD/PSU from Antec to Lian-Li, and then put the WD500GB/PSU into Antec and sell that as a complete HTPC and then add a 2nd WD RED HDD to the Lian-Li, make it quieter with better fans and better mobo control and be done with it.

So, which of the parts above is a must-go?

These two LianLi cases look good... any feedback on either?

• http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

[alexb]

I had a 2nd look at case recommendations. It looks like there's a lot of love for Silverstone and Antec. They're just all so damn fulgy! Also I was not at all impressed with my Antec fusion case. The quality of material and fit and finish was way below my Lian-Li case despite being one of the recommended cases.

So, as followup. Which of the recommended cases actually look fine and come close to LianLi fit and finish?

Which Antec between P183 and P280 is a Better option? P280 looks way too big for my needs.

[Abula]

Thanks for all the help guys, I really don't think I wanna go lower spec than 7700, as you guys said, there's no such thing as light gaming. My current card is MSI R7770, it's one with 1GB DDR5. I tried my best to get a quiet one, but MSI and others literally make different variations of exact same cards that makes it impossible to know which is which until it arrives at your door.

Don't understand the lower spec remark.... the GTX750Ti is faster than the AMD 7770, check TechPowerUP MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB, has tons of game benchmarks with the 7770 1gb.

[alexb]

Thanks for all the help guys, I really don't think I wanna go lower spec than 7700, as you guys said, there's no such thing as light gaming. My current card is MSI R7770, it's one with 1GB DDR5. I tried my best to get a quiet one, but MSI and others literally make different variations of exact same cards that makes it impossible to know which is which until it arrives at your door.

Don't understand the lower spec remark.... the GTX750Ti is faster than the AMD 7770, check TechPowerUP MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB, has tons of game benchmarks with the 7770 1gb.

So do you mean it's a faster card yet quieter?

[Abula]

Thanks for all the help guys, I really don't think I wanna go lower spec than 7700, as you guys said, there's no such thing as light gaming. My current card is MSI R7770, it's one with 1GB DDR5. I tried my best to get a quiet one, but MSI and others literally make different variations of exact same cards that makes it impossible to know which is which until it arrives at your door.

Don't understand the lower spec remark.... the GTX750Ti is faster than the AMD 7770, check TechPowerUP MSI GTX 750 Ti Gaming 2 GB, has tons of game benchmarks with the 7770 1gb.

So do you mean it's a faster card yet quieter?

It should be, specially the ASUS STRIX version that its passive below certain temp, so you practically end up with a passive card unless you are gaming. Nvidia Maxwell cards are very efficient and dont put a lot of heat, so manufactuers have been able to design this new gen of semi passive gpus, which for us quiet seekers seem like we are going into heaven.

[quest_for_silence]

So, which of the parts above is a must-go?

You're not used to give quite precise, complete specifications, are you? Probably, being a 7200rpm one, that 500Gb drive is not perfectly suitable for quiet operation, and given the size, perhaps it's also not that fast, but who knows, exactly. About the MSI graphics, although it's still uncertain which one it is ( http://www.msi.com/search/R7770/product/1 ), if you're willing to spare some money you may try Afterburner or SpeedFan in order to tame the noise, but YMMV.
Most notable absence is that of any aftermarket CPU cooler, so, whether you run the stock ones, I've some serious doubt about your description of sound levels (how anything can be perceived as pretty quiet with a stock AMD heatsink inside? It would be a shame, if you were able to perceive it).

These two LianLi cases look good... any feedback on either?

• http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

The first one is a relatively unknown revision (more fans, different HDD cage) of a proven design, some times used by SPCR readers, mostly in the steel form of the Lancool K7. A bit outdated design (USB 2.0. Ac97, top PSU mounting, but apparently with vented top this time), it's basically an evolutions of the former, more restricted PC-65 (similar to your PC-62).
I like more, at least aesthetically wise, the 7H, it has more modern USB 3.0 and HDA ports on front, and a modern bottom PSU mounting, along with more direct front inlet (but which you shouldn't need with a 7770, and even less with a GTX 750Ti, on the other hand).
About humming (from either vibrations or air resonance), YMMV (Lian-Li isn't that consistent to let me make any forecasting).

Which of the recommended cases actually look fine and come close to LianLi fit and finish?

For what I see, you don't look for a recommended case, but for another aluminium one: so pick one you may like either with at least 1 120/140mm rear exhaust (if you don't plan to use a graphics card with a TDP above the 7770's one), or one with at least 1 120/140mm rear exhaust and 2 120/140mm front/bottom inlet (to use with hotter video cards).

[quest_for_silence]

Don't understand the lower spec remark

As some posts above I talked about a passive R7 250, he might have mistaken the HD7750 with the GTX 750Ti.

[alexb]

The first one is a relatively unknown revision (more fans, different HDD cage) of a proven design, some times used by SPCR readers, mostly in the steel form of the Lancool K7. A bit outdated design (USB 2.0. Ac97, top PSU mounting, but apparently with vented top this time), it's basically an evolutions of the former, more restricted PC-65 (similar to your PC-62).
I like more, at least aesthetically wise, the 7H, it has more modern USB 3.0 and HDA ports on front, and a modern bottom PSU mounting, along with more direct front inlet (but which you shouldn't need with a 7770, and even less with a GTX 750Ti, on the other hand).
About humming (from either vibrations or air resonance), YMMV (Lian-Li isn't that consistent to let me make any forecasting).

Which of the recommended cases actually look fine and come close to LianLi fit and finish?

For what I see, you don't look for a recommended case, but for another aluminium one: so pick one you may like either with at least 1 120/140mm rear exhaust (if you don't plan to use a graphics card with a TDP above the 7770's one), or one with at least 1 120/140mm rear exhaust and 2 120/140mm front/bottom inlet (to use with hotter video cards).

How's this one? I saw that Mike said Lian-Li PC-12 had a poor air flow design and not recommended... what about this one? It looks newer

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-b10/

[quest_for_silence]

How's this one? I saw that Mike said Lian-Li PC-12 had a poor air flow design and not recommended... what about this one? It looks newer

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-b10/

IMHO, like the similar B16, that B10 looks clearly better than the B12, and of the B25 too, with reference to airflow (but it also look less performing than the PC-7H). So, it may be a pretty workable option but for an hefty, steep price tag (here it costs almost three times the PC-7 and PC-7H, and even more than the equally luxurious, SPCR reviewed PC-B25).

[Pappnaas]

The B10 looks pretty restricted on the front intake. There seems to be no bottom hole or intake in this case, so cooling is dependant on the few openings on either side of the front fascia.

Past Lian-Li modells with front door have shown that they suffer from restricted intake area, nearly forcing the user to spin the intake fans at higher than necessary rpm to achieve sufficient cooling.

Anyway, i would be tempted to tear out the bottom drive cage in this one and cut a bottom intake for a 120mm fan. But who would want to destroy a case with this price tag?

For the asking price i'd expect a perfect case... not a nice looking one with potentially flawed intake.

And we haven't even mentioned that running a HDD in this drive cage could lead to noticable vibration issues, if you do not find a way to suspend the HDDs somehow.

[quest_for_silence]

The B10 looks pretty restricted on the front intake. There seems to be no bottom hole or intake in this case, so cooling is dependant on the few openings on either side of the front fascia.

More or less, about like an Antec P182/P183?

not a nice looking one with potentially flawed intake.

I beg your pardon, but I'd stress the adverb "potentially": set aside the Antecs, but the reviewed B25 (with more restricted intakes) did not that bad (and not that good).

And we haven't even mentioned that running a HDD in this drive cage could lead to noticable vibration issues

As usual with alu cases, the relevant mileage may vary: and often that's not a problem.

[MikeC]

alexb --

It sounds like you're sold on LianLi cases, but by modern standards, they all look compromised for airflow. I mean, they can be made to work, but you'll get better cooling (and therefore, lower noise) results right out of the box w/o modifications with cases from Fractal, Silverstone Antec or even NZXT.

[alexb]

alexb --

It sounds like you're sold on LianLi cases, but by modern standards, they all look compromised for airflow. I mean, they can be made to work, but you'll get better cooling (and therefore, lower noise) results right out of the box w/o modifications with cases from Fractal, Silverstone Antec or even NZXT.

Hey Mike, not really sold on it. I just have never had a better built and better looking case, and I do like a lighter case. Antec Fusion was a huge disappointment, not in terms of performance but in terms of fit and finish. It was just not as nicely put together with less attention to manufacturing details than at least the few Lian-Li's I've tested. I almost cut myself on some of the edges on that case, and it was quite an expensive one.

I am now going through all of the recommended cases to see which may fit the bill. If you have a recommendations amongst those with similar fit/finish as Lian-Li, I'd really appreciate it! I've found an Antec P280 to meet my aesthetic needs, but it might be too large for what I need and still a bit heavier, Silverstone is a bit too much money for the ones that I like, or too big, maybe Fractal options could do...

[MikeC]

Yes, Lian Li does make nice looking cases... but I'm not sure the fit is that much better than others. Maybe a bit, but once you have it running, it's not like you're going to be inside the thing daily. Too bad their thermal design approach is lagging.

The Fractal Define series is an obvious choice. It picks up where the P18x series left off. The P183v3 might be OK, too -- but it's even heavier than the Fractal. The weight actually helps with noise, a bit.

I think the NZXT H440 looks promising, tho we haven't reviewed it.

[quest_for_silence]

I think the NZXT H440 looks promising, tho we haven't reviewed it.

Apropos of not reviewed yet, be quiet! cases:



Given their somehow sleek appearance, they might be interesting (or maybe the OP will find them too extravagant).

[Tephras]

How's this one? I saw that Mike said Lian-Li PC-12 had a poor air flow design and not recommended... what about this one? It looks newer

http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-b10/

I have the PC-B10 and there's no problem with the airflow. But it does improve, of course, with the door open - clearly shown by lowered temperatures during system load.

[alexb]

So, at this point, after researching quite a bit, only the following fit the bill on my needs of smaller/lighter case, minimalist and good looks (no bling), with good cooling and quiet... Which do you recommend most?

- Fractal R4 - a bit heavy, looks ok, perfect reviews on Newegg, not great review on Anand, BIG
- Corsair 550D -- fairly light, looks good, good reviews on Newegg, didn't review that great at SPCR, BIG
- Lian-Li PC-7HB -- lightest, aluminium look I am after, seems to have good cooling, not enugh reviews?
- Lian-Li PC-B10... more expensive, but seems to have poor airflow (not too many reviews)...

It looks Corsair, Fractal should be the front runners...

[CA_Steve]

If you choose to go big, I picked the R4 over the 550D and have been very happy with the case. More details in my signature/build thread.

[Abula]

Another very nice case if you dont use optical drives is the NZHT 440, i been reading on it lately and seems a pretty solid build.

[alexb]

If you choose to go big, I picked the R4 over the 550D and have been very happy with the case. More details in my signature/build thread.

Thanks, I am leaning more towards 550D, as it's a lot lighter, and front panel is aluminium vs. Plastic on R4... R4 seems to have more flexiblity and probably better for overclocking, but its weight is a problem, with components in, it probably be 42-45 lbs!