Which case and AIO liquid cooler for quiet X99 OC build?

[ziphnor]

Hi,

I am planning an upgrade to an i7 5820k with a gtx980 and a single SSD as the only drive (no normal HDD or optical drives, so no real use for drive cages at all). I plan to OC (not in the extreme, but a good solid 24/7 OC so that the single threaded performance doesnt fall behind the 4790k). I want the system to be silent when idle/light load (browsing, coding etc), and quiet under heavier load (gaming, running benchmarks etc).

To achieve this, i am planning on getting an AIO liquid CPU cooler, but i am a bit confused as to which ones are compatible with which cases. I am also confused as to whether its best to mount the radiator in the top or in the front (in particular wrt to noise)? So i guess thats the first question.

I was planning on getting a Fractal Define R4 case, as it has a simple streamlined design (i dont want any windows or "bling") and is quiet, but there seem to be a lot of confusion as to what will actually fit in it.

I am undecided on which cooler to get, partially because i dont know if it should be 240mm or 280mm. From reading reviews on this site the Kraken X61 sounds really good, but i have also been reading good things about Swiftech H220x. Both are quite expensive, but apparently significantly better than the Corsair h10xi and say the CM Seidon 240M?

So basically i am looking at recommendations on case/AIO cooler combinations. As mentioned above i dont need any optical drive space. It is okay if the case is a full tower, but i have a slight preference for mid-tower as i am planning on having very few components (but not if it impacts cooling options significantly).

I am looking at the following cases so far:
Fractal Design R4
Fractal Design R2 XL
The DeepSilence series (most are relevant, except 6), but i prefer the non-split door in fractals design.

I was also looking at bit at the NZXT H440, where i can appreciate the removal of the optical drive bays, but for some reason they only have it with a window, and i *really* dont want that

Any input would be appreciated.

[Abula]

For AIO, if i ever go that route defently would be with SPCR silver award NZXT Kraken X61 28cm Liquid Cooler

Either of the cases you are considering is a good choice, i like R4 more into 140mm fans, but the NZXT i like because of the looks/design and no optiocal into triple frontal fan.... but its up to you.

[ziphnor]

For AIO, if i ever go that route defently would be with SPCR silver award NZXT Kraken X61 28cm Liquid Cooler

Either of the cases you are considering is a good choice, i like R4 more into 140mm fans, but the NZXT i like because of the looks/design and no optiocal into triple frontal fan.... but its up to you.

But will the X61 fit in the R4?

[Gordoco]

I have that exact same question. Right now I'm considering the i7-5820K with Kraken X61 liquid cooler and wondering if it would fit the Define R4 case.

I found this: https://pcpartpicker.com/parts/case/?co ... -rlkrx6101

I don't know how complete or reliable this list is, but it does NOT list the Define R4 as compatible with the X61.

I do like the looks of the H440 and don't mind having a window (it looks tasteful compared to some windowed cases) but I'll browse through some of the other cases listed on that site to see what jumps out.

[Abula]

For AIO, if i ever go that route defently would be with SPCR silver award NZXT Kraken X61 28cm Liquid Cooler

Either of the cases you are considering is a good choice, i like R4 more into 140mm fans, but the NZXT i like because of the looks/design and no optiocal into triple frontal fan.... but its up to you.

But will the X61 fit in the R4?

Honestly i cant say, i do own an R4 and it has top mounted slots that matches 140mm fans, but weather it has the exact spacing the X61 rad has idk, my guess is it might, but at the same time one the weakest parts the R4 is the top, because of the holes its wobbles and its thin.... the top and bottom because of the holes imo they should have used a thicker steel, but its not a big deal either, it works fine, just don't feel as solid as the rest fo the case.

Personally i would go with the 440, specially since you can ask NZXT if the 440 can support X61, since its the same manufacturer they should know.

[ziphnor]

Personally i would go with the 440, specially since you can ask NZXT if the 440 can support X61, since its the same manufacturer they should know.

Unfortunately the window is a dealbreaker for me. I dont want to be able to see the "guts" of my PC

[Abula]

Personally i would go with the 440, specially since you can ask NZXT if the 440 can support X61, since its the same manufacturer they should know.

Unfortunately the window is a dealbreaker for me. I dont want to be able to see the "guts" of my PC

I understand =(, im also thinking on moving to FT05 but i just want the solid panel, never really liked windows, but 440 imo its a nice design overall, if i were one day to go into window cases, this is the one that i would like.

[ziphnor]

Was just reading http://www.overclock.net/t/1499418/cpu- ... epton-280l.

Makes me wonder if perhaps it is not worth the bother with an AIO CLC cooler after all, but it seems no matter what good cooling causes clearance issues, especially with regard to RAM.

I found the Kraken X61 for 140€, the Cryorig R1 Ultimate (which is apparently better than the Noctua NH-D15) for 60€. Must admit i find it hard to figure out what to go for.

[Pappnaas]

AIO are simply for those, who need the performance and do not care much about noise.

As said in the SPCR review, you can get nearly the same performance with an equal noise level or even better for half the money. If you have the room in your case and do not want to do extreme oc, that is.

Going full water with GPU, CPU + external or big Radiator is a different story. But budget will go through the roof.

[quest_for_silence]

Must admit i find it hard to figure out what to go for.

Is it really that hard? I just see money for nothing...

[ziphnor]

AIO are simply for those, who need the performance and do not care much about noise.

As said in the SPCR review, you can get nearly the same performance with an equal noise level or even better for half the money. If you have the room in your case and do not want to do extreme oc, that is.

The first of those two statements seem to imply that the performance difference is enough to make a difference if you dont care about noise? ( i do, but just trying to clarify whether the AIO provide better performance or not if you employ the same fans/speed)

Going full water with GPU, CPU + external or big Radiator is a different story. But budget will go through the roof.

Perhaps i am just expecting too much from these AIO. 10+ years ago i had a custom water cooled system with an external *huge* passive radiator (huge as in the size you normally use to heat a decent size room . That worked out really nicely, especially when i drilled holes in the wall and place the radiator outside (its cold here usually). I guess i cannot expect the same performance from the X61 I dont really care about budget, more about the hassle with a custom loop.

[ziphnor]

Is it really that hard? I just see money for nothing...

Well that is what i am trying to determine, if it indeed is money for nothing, or just money for a little. When you start on a Haswell-E build you already know you are not exactly getting the best value for money

I do want to OC (but not with crazy voltage), and i do want to keep things quiet. I just thought that keeping a chip with a 140W TDP cool when overclocked about +1Ghz might require more than air.

I would only be too happy to be able to stick with the R4 and "just" get the Cryorig R1 Ultimate (assuming i can get RAM that will fit under it).

[quest_for_silence]

Is it really that hard? I just see money for nothing...

Well that is what i am trying to determine, if it indeed is money for nothing, or just money for a little. When you start on a Haswell-E build you already know you are not exactly getting the best value for money

I do want to OC (but not with crazy voltage), and i do want to keep things quiet. I just thought that keeping a chip with a 140W TDP cool when overclocked about +1Ghz might require more than air.

I would only be too happy to be able to stick with the R4 and "just" get the Cryorig R1 Ultimate (assuming i can get RAM that will fit under it).

It's all about perspective: what's the prize for a lower temperature? Under throttling, it's very debatable.
More probably that not, with a 4,3/4,4GHz at 1.25V Haswell-E CPU, about any of the first ten air heatsinks recommended by SPCR can stay comfortable under that threshold. Do you need more? Why? What "more" is? What would you trade off for? What a big AIO like the Kraken X61 may offer more at a quiet level? About 2-3°C? Do you want to own some specific piece of equipment *just*/*mainly* for your peace of mind/pleasure?
I think that you have to answer to those questions, and then you'll be able to work out on your own all the right choices.

[ziphnor]

It's all about perspective: what's the prize for a lower temperature? Under throttling, it's very debatable.
More probably that not, with a 4,3/4,4GHz at 1.25V Haswell-E CPU, about any of the first ten air heatsinks recommended by SPCR can stay comfortable under that threshold. Do you need more? Why? What "more" is? What would you trade off for? What a big AIO like the Kraken X61 may offer more at a quiet level? About 2-3°C? Do you want to own some specific piece of equipment *just*/*mainly* for your peace of mind/pleasure?
I think that you have to answer to those questions, and then you'll be able to work out on your own all the right choices.

My goal is to OC enough that the single-threaded performance can match that of the 4790k (i want to play with parallel algorithm development, but dont want to lose single-threaded performance). I honestly didnt think air coolers could mange that reliably when i started this thread, i guess i was wrong?

I dont want to buy it "just" for peace of mind, i just want to make sure that the cooler isnt the limiting factor when attempting an OC in the range of 4.2-4.5Ghz. But it sounds like the Cryorig would work out just fine (its actually pretty cheap here), assuming i dont have problems with RAM clearance.

[quest_for_silence]

My goal is to OC enough that the single-threaded performance can match that of the 4790k (i want to play with parallel algorithm development, but dont want to lose single-threaded performance).

I was not referring exclusively to cooling when I referred to "peace of mind". On Cinebench R15, averagely, at stock clock, a 5930K is about 10% slower than a 4790K (146 vs 162): is that decisive? I can't help about.
Obviously, with a different application, your mileage may vary.

Anyway, about your OC goal, there are lots of W (and V) of difference between 4.2GHz and 4.5GHz on Haswell-E: IIRC, Anandtech using either the Corsair H80i or the Cooler Master Nepton 140XL wasn't able to stay under 94°C at 4.55GHz, and I don't think they operated those AIOs at a "quiet" sound pressure level.

[ziphnor]

Anyway, about your OC goal, there are lots of W (and V) of difference between 4.2GHz and 4.5GHz on Haswell-E: IIRC, Anandtech using either the Corsair H80i or the Cooler Master Nepton 140XL wasn't able to stay under 94°C at 4.55GHz, and I don't think they operated those AIOs at a "quiet" sound pressure level.

Ill be okay if i can do 4ghz for all cores and OC the turboboost to get one core to say 4.4Ghz (to match the 4790k). I hope to do better though, from what i have read 4.2/4.3 is not hard to reach. I am going to be looking for a spot where i can get good performance without increasing the voltage too much, which of course depends on the chip. And i just wanted to have enough cooling capacity to do that, and thought that the AIO's had more cooling capacity for a given noise threshold.

Cinebench is very different from the kind of thing i want this CPU for (i know that an i5 is plenty for gaming), i do work with combinatorial algorithms. They are typically single-threaded in nature, but i want to experiment with making then run on multiple cores (and the extra cache on the 5820k should be good for them). Hence i dont want to get stuck with a "slow" multicore CPU if it doesnt work out (ie paying more for what turns out to be slower), but i also want lots of cores to play with.

If the Cryorig can handle 1.25V with the 5820k then i guess its probably fine and i dont have to buy the XL R2 instead of the R4.

[lb_felipe]

Abula, is the fan controller on RV05 and FT05 compatible with motherboard headers?

That is, when you swap the stock fans for picked ones, can you use the controller on the case at the same time you read and control speed by motherboard?

For example, with Define R4, this is not possible. Is it with Raven and Fortress?

Thank you.

[Abula]

Abula, is the fan controller on RV05 and FT05 compatible with motherboard headers?

I dont own... yet... an FT05, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But i would asume they will, in my TJ08-E, which uses the same AP181 that comes on the FT05/RV05, it has the same switch low and high, and the end connector of the fan is a 3pin standard motherboard connector. One thing to keep in mind is that the AP181 at the most will drop around 400rpms, for some is quiet enough for other not, and this is with a fanXpert2 motherboard, other motherboards might not reach that low.

Check online reviews, specially videos to see if the fan connectors are simple 3pin motherboard, i would assume so, but its best to check.

That is, when you swap the stock fans for picked ones, can you use the controller on the case at the same time you read and control speed by motherboard?

No, unless you mod it, the for a motherboard to read the rpms you need the rpm signal cable (yellow) to reach a motherboard header, and even then some motherboard if they dont power the fan they dont read the rpms, its hard to say if this would work. For example on the R4 you cant, as the connections of the 3pin are to the controller.

For example, with Define R4, this is not possible. Is it with Raven and Fortress?

Yes, as the resistor is built in the line of the fan, and the fan still ends on 3pin (this is how the TJ08-E is) . So practically you are doing a dual undervolting. Here is a picture of what i mean when you use an asus motherboard on the AP181 on a CHA_FAN header with both High/Low switch used.

[lb_felipe]

Thank you so much, Abula.

I really wouldn't like to keep the AP181 stock fans. So if I got an FT05, I would have replaced their two AP181 for two Phanteks 140SP.

My concern is to be or not to be able to read and control fan speed by an ASUS motherboard. I would really like have the control and monitoring using Fan Xpert.

From there is the problem. I would think unpleasant having the fan control switch on the case without function. It's the same with Define R4. This sound like a poorly finished build, if you got what I mean.

Therefore, swapping the stock fans, would I have two useful switches on the case (assuming that I would be plug the new fans on the motherboard)?

[Abula]

I really wouldn't like to keep the AP181 stock fans. So if I got an FT05, I would have replaced their two AP181 for two Phanteks 140SP.

The strenght of the FT05 is its 180mm fans, its not only its bigger radius but they are thicker 25mm vs 32mm, if you are thinking not to use them in favor of 140mm fans, then there are better case options out there, for example you can see in my signature the GameMi build that i have R4 running 4x 140mm case fans, 3 intake 1 out, this would be much more airflow than what the FT05 can deliver if you change the fans to 140s and 120 on the back.

AP181 were reviewed on multiple reviews by SPCR, in different cases that has them,
SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E: MicroATX Evolved
SilverStone Raven RV04 Overview
Silverstone Fortress FT02 Revisited

Personally i find them loud at max or even at low settings (from the switch it has built in), but dropping them below 500rpm they become decent, not silent though, but still they cool well even at those rpms. But some like a more quiet setup overall so it depends on each needs and desires. You can also read my opinion on the 182 on the Taming the beast, Silverstone AP182, which for me with an Asus or MSI motherboard with the knobs turn down some, it can end up quiet, even lower than 181, but the question in hand is weather that enough cooling for what you doing.

Either way just wanted to give you my thoughts into the FT05 and fans, good luck with your decision.

My concern is to be or not to be able to read and control fan speed by an ASUS motherboard. I would really like have the control and monitoring using Fan Xpert.

Therefore, swapping the stock fans, would I have two useful switches on the case (assuming that I would be plug the new fans on the motherboard)?

You can plug them into the motherboard no problem, and you will be able to control them, after this it really depends on the fans you are using and the motherboard. Broadly speaking, i like more Asus with FanXpert2 to control 3pin fans, that said MSI can do it very well as long as you don't need to drop them below 50% (where the asus can), on PWM fan i like more MSI, and overall i like more MSI in terms of not using anything extra, for me Bios fan control is what i like, specially as im not binded to an OS that can run it and in an event of a failure or the software stops responding... the bios will still be running, either way this is not to say software is worst or better, its just personal preferences into what i like. IMO Asus on bios fan control is mediocre, their strength relays on their FanXpert2 software.

[lb_felipe]

I already have seen those threads, Abula. Excellent builds you made.

This thread is about X99 AIO LC and case. Anything like NZXT S340 plus Kraken X61?

So, I will stop posting here about those issues not derailing the topic.

I will find another thread and come back to chat you about those things, Abula.

Thanks.