I need to use 2 PC's with a KVM, and maybe more in the future. Curently, I use antec sonota II cases with coolermaster CPU fans.
The systems are quieter than they were originally, but they are still unbearably loud for me. A big part of the problem is that because I need 2 computers, it is basically double the noise of one computer setup. therefore, I feel that i really must attack this problem more seriously and eliminate the noise sources.
Soon, I intend to update my machine to a core 2 duo setup. I'm looking for some advice in planning this. Here are some of my initial thoughts:
1. I don't mind having a PC case that is 5 times larger than a normal pc case. I will even custom build this. To me, this means that I should be able to build an exterior case and fill it with accoustic foam.
2. I would be willing to go the oil-cooled route if anyone has proven success with that.
3. I'm also willing to put my computers in another room, but one problem is that I use large monitors, and I need DVI cables that won't have a signal degredation over a long distance.
4. The zalman tnn-500af is exciting to me, but very expensive. I was hoping that I could come up with a cheaper solution myself.
I'd appreciate any advice, thanks! But please understand that the antec cases are not even close to what I'd consider quiet. I'm really surprised to see them discussed so much on sites like this.
Designing a quiet PC
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
The Core 2 Duo is a cool-running chip, using SPCR Recommended components (Scythe Ninja, Antec Solo, Seasonic PSU, Nexus fans) you should be able to make a whisper-quiet PC straight out of the box.I thought about making a case for 2 pcs, since I'm pretty confident that I'll need 2 pc's for a long time. Besides being heavier and less modular though, I realized that this has the thermodynamic disadvantage of both computers heating up the same air.
Even being able to place 2 computers a few feet from each other probably helps a lot to keep them cooler than if I put 2 computers in the same box, so I think it's smarter to stick with single PC cases.
Even being able to place 2 computers a few feet from each other probably helps a lot to keep them cooler than if I put 2 computers in the same box, so I think it's smarter to stick with single PC cases.
Unless the airflow is designed so poorly that exhaust air from one case is sucked up into the other case, there shouldn't be any advantage to placing two cases a few feet apart from each other.
You think there's some thermodynamic disadvantage of both computers heating up the same air, but in fact there's no disadvantage. There's twice as much air, and twice as much airflow. Whether they're in two seperate cases or one shared case doesn't really matter. A shared case has a number of advantages, though--airflow is less restricted and you have the option to use bigger, slower fans.
You're new to quiet computing, so you don't yet know what makes a computer quiet or loud. Accoustic foam has some effect, but it's nowhere near as important as not generating noise in the first place. You seem to think that Antec cases aren't quiet--but isn't it the stuff inside the case which makes the noise?
The first thing you need to learn about quiet computing is that it's all about not generating noise in the first place. This means reducing fan noise and suspending hard drives, among other techniques.
The four approaches you posted are hardly ever used by us on SPCR, for good reasons. There are more effective methods which are easier and less expensive. If you're willing to keep an open mind and be flexible with your preconceptions, there's a lot you can learn here.
You think there's some thermodynamic disadvantage of both computers heating up the same air, but in fact there's no disadvantage. There's twice as much air, and twice as much airflow. Whether they're in two seperate cases or one shared case doesn't really matter. A shared case has a number of advantages, though--airflow is less restricted and you have the option to use bigger, slower fans.
You're new to quiet computing, so you don't yet know what makes a computer quiet or loud. Accoustic foam has some effect, but it's nowhere near as important as not generating noise in the first place. You seem to think that Antec cases aren't quiet--but isn't it the stuff inside the case which makes the noise?
The first thing you need to learn about quiet computing is that it's all about not generating noise in the first place. This means reducing fan noise and suspending hard drives, among other techniques.
The four approaches you posted are hardly ever used by us on SPCR, for good reasons. There are more effective methods which are easier and less expensive. If you're willing to keep an open mind and be flexible with your preconceptions, there's a lot you can learn here.
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Max Slowik
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado USA
- Contact:
1. I don't mind having a PC case that is 5 times larger than a normal pc case. I will even custom build this. To me, this means that I should be able to build an exterior case and fill it with accoustic foam.
So I had a Thermaltake Mozart TX a while back:
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/32 ... nter+Case/
Granted I think that was a poorly-written review, but the point is the same: big cases have an amplification effect with fan noise. The same is true, to a lesser extent, with my current TJ-09, though the case is really designed from a cool perspective and not a quiet one, and there it excels.
2. I would be willing to go the oil-cooled route if anyone has proven success with that.
No-one's really tried it long-term. All the chemistry guys I spoke to said that it's going to cause some, whatchamacallit, ionization? of the metals, and it's really likely to shorten the life of all the parts.
DO NOT use any organic oils, use mineral oil.
And yeah, serious f'ing overkill :)
Are the computers going to be on together 24/7? If so, SuperMicro makes some dual-machine server PSUs; server power supplies are loud but I don't think you're opposed to modding, so you could theoretically take care of two noise sources right there.
Makes sense if you're sticking two computers in one case.
So I had a Thermaltake Mozart TX a while back:
http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/32 ... nter+Case/
Granted I think that was a poorly-written review, but the point is the same: big cases have an amplification effect with fan noise. The same is true, to a lesser extent, with my current TJ-09, though the case is really designed from a cool perspective and not a quiet one, and there it excels.
2. I would be willing to go the oil-cooled route if anyone has proven success with that.
No-one's really tried it long-term. All the chemistry guys I spoke to said that it's going to cause some, whatchamacallit, ionization? of the metals, and it's really likely to shorten the life of all the parts.
DO NOT use any organic oils, use mineral oil.
And yeah, serious f'ing overkill :)
Are the computers going to be on together 24/7? If so, SuperMicro makes some dual-machine server PSUs; server power supplies are loud but I don't think you're opposed to modding, so you could theoretically take care of two noise sources right there.
Makes sense if you're sticking two computers in one case.
This is a good point. I actually am an expert in thermal hydraulics, just so you have a reference on my background.
I have never tried to build a quiet computer before though, and that's why I'm starting here in the newbie forum. I'm not going to claim that all of my initial ideas that I post in this thread are correct or recommended.
I think that you are right about the airflow, assuming that I design the case intelligently. I have looked more into what people posted here, and it seems like in most cases people need to have at least one fan. So, with my 2-computer case, it might be possible to get away with a single, larger fan to cool both computers, rather than having a smaller fan in each case. I like that idea a lot.
Another thing that always annoys me about cases is that i want the dvd drives on the same side as all of the other ports. Maybe I really should build the case of my dreams. Do people recommend building them out of scrap aluminum?
I have never tried to build a quiet computer before though, and that's why I'm starting here in the newbie forum. I'm not going to claim that all of my initial ideas that I post in this thread are correct or recommended.
I think that you are right about the airflow, assuming that I design the case intelligently. I have looked more into what people posted here, and it seems like in most cases people need to have at least one fan. So, with my 2-computer case, it might be possible to get away with a single, larger fan to cool both computers, rather than having a smaller fan in each case. I like that idea a lot.
Another thing that always annoys me about cases is that i want the dvd drives on the same side as all of the other ports. Maybe I really should build the case of my dreams. Do people recommend building them out of scrap aluminum?
Someone recently posted a really cool HTPC with a scratchbuilt aluminum case. He built it mostly out of bits of L channel.
I'm pretty lazy when it comes to my scratchbuilt cases. Other than my first overly complex attempt, they've all been simple five-sided boxes with all ports and openings in the rear. Naturally, this means that the optical drive opens to the rear on the same side as the ports. I've never seen a stock computer case like this, and I don't really understand why not. Oh well...if you build your own case, you can make it exactly what you want.
I'm pretty lazy when it comes to my scratchbuilt cases. Other than my first overly complex attempt, they've all been simple five-sided boxes with all ports and openings in the rear. Naturally, this means that the optical drive opens to the rear on the same side as the ports. I've never seen a stock computer case like this, and I don't really understand why not. Oh well...if you build your own case, you can make it exactly what you want.
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Max Slowik
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado USA
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One thing that's easier to buy than build is the motherboard tray. If you've never scratch-built a case before, it's a good idea to buy a cheap steel case with a removable motherboard tray (for you, two identical cases) and use the hard drive cages* and maybe even the optical drive cage. And of course, both motherboard trays; even if they're not removable, you can cut them out.
The physical templates a case provides is better than most web drawings.
Don't get cheap aluminum cases because unless you're super-deft, you'll tear the metal to shreds. Cheap aluminum cases use <1mm thick metal. If anything, you don't have the luxury of making mistakes.
Another thing to look into, since you'd be building the thing yourself, is building a cross-flow fan into the case right in front of the motherboard trays, intaking air from the side. If this doesn't make sense I can Gimp up a pitcher for you. Anyway, cross-flow fans are quiet, it's just they're often hard to use in most applications.
*Of course, if you're looking to silence the drives, you should look into suspension. It's got the added advantage of not requiring precision in the build.
The physical templates a case provides is better than most web drawings.
Don't get cheap aluminum cases because unless you're super-deft, you'll tear the metal to shreds. Cheap aluminum cases use <1mm thick metal. If anything, you don't have the luxury of making mistakes.
Another thing to look into, since you'd be building the thing yourself, is building a cross-flow fan into the case right in front of the motherboard trays, intaking air from the side. If this doesn't make sense I can Gimp up a pitcher for you. Anyway, cross-flow fans are quiet, it's just they're often hard to use in most applications.
*Of course, if you're looking to silence the drives, you should look into suspension. It's got the added advantage of not requiring precision in the build.