Temperatures

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:57 am

Whats an acceptable Mobo and COPU temp

Mine is:

Mobo 45deg
CPU 73deg

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:14 am

What CPU is it? (P4? Prescott?3.X GHz?)
This is the load temp I assume?
73C is rather hot...

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:50 am

The mobo sensor is often located inside or close to the northbridge. Northbridges are rated to 90°C-100°C.

73°C is about the temp the Prescotts start to trottle, so you're not likely to see them getting higher on those procs.

But ultimately any temp is OK as long as your system is stable. And as noted before in another thread where people started summing up temps: Temps mean nothing unless you now the rest of the setup and environment.

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:12 pm

Sorry should have said.

Its a 3.4 775 P4.

I have checked again and made some mods. The CPU throttled up runs 76deg but the mobo now runs 38dec

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:17 pm

As long as the CPU doent crash at high temps it doesnt really matter but i dont like above 60 for CPU and above 35 for Case

GrahamGarside · Post by **GrahamGarside** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:56 pm

well like Tibors said intel chips start to throttle at about 70C (unplug your fan and this is as high as it will go) you can watch this in effect using a program called throttlewatch.
http://files.aoaforums.com/code.php?file=2016
if your intel chip runs hot or you have overclocked it it's worth trying this program to see if you are getting full performance.
intel's are really resiliant to heat, you can physically remove the heatsink and the chip will carry on functioning by dropping down the speed and voltage.
try this program and if during full loads you are seeing the thermal throttle in action then you are too hot.

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:49 pm

Well done a test and as the CPU is running at 76deg it thrttling back by aprox 30%

(((((((((((

This is not good. I am using a Nexis 120 fan on thermalright XP120 heatsink just as in the test - http://www.silentpcreview.com/article186-page4.html

In the test they use the apniflow and the globe which wins and a theroretical heat output 45 dec C!!!

What am I doing wrong??

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:48 pm

Thermal paste problems? (None / too much / poor spread / .... )

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:28 pm

Thermal paste problem, yes possibly. Going to remove the mobo and have a look. Any advise on using it then ie how much, do I spread or just leave a blob etc

Guys, you think the fan I am using is ok - http://www.nexustek.nl/120mmcasefan.htm

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:42 am

Arctic Silver site has good instructions.

And yes, I think your fan is fine, even though you have a very hot CPU, you shouldn't be hitting 73C so easily with that fan.

Slaugh · Post by **Slaugh** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:12 am

burcakb is right! There are very good instructions for thermal paste application on the Arctic Silver site. Here's the URL:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

EdwardNG also have good instructions on his website:

Applying thermal interface material... the NgTechnik Way!

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:16 am

Getting very pi$$ed off now. Following instructions re grease and temp now 80deg at iddle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Starting to wish I had never concidered having a quiet PC was viable.

Seems to have waisted £50!!!!!!!!

Argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:41 am

re-fitted the std cpu cooler and its running at 78deg full load and about 62 idle

I am at a total loss and query the test as I can't believe that the temp recorded was ONLY 40deg, ok there was no case but if thats true then I would suggest the tests are done within a case!

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:45 am

From the sound of things, your case is starved for air. Case temp sensors are usually the least accurate sensor in a computer, but assuming it's even remotly right, very few heatsinks can keep a hot CPU cool with a base temp of 45 C.

What does the rest of your layout look like?

GrahamGarside · Post by **GrahamGarside** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:01 am

the xp120 is the best ait cooler you can get, quiet or otherwise

the problem is either, possibly a faulty cooler, unlikelythough

poor case airflow, you should at the very least have a good exhaust fan behind the cpu and a clear path for air to travel through the case, preferably with another fan down front for intake.

How are you cleaning the heatsink and cpu? did you use isopropyl alchohol? it could be that there is still some remains of another compound/pad left there

or the cooler may not be making full contact with the core, if there is a clearance issue and something is interferring with the heatsink it may not be contacting the core fully.

those are very high temps, plus you are getting 30% throttle so you aren't even seeing the full story, they would be much higher if not for intels thermal protection so something is definately up

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:26 am

Ok

The current temp is, at iddle; CPU - 60C and Mobo 30C. This is using the stock Heatsink and fan. On load (Running Ulead Studio 8 rendering an avi file into VCD format) its 79C and 32C

The case is the Antec Sonata, which is a fairly well know case. http://www.antec.com/uk/productDetails.php?ProdID=08139.

It has a 120mm exhaust fan.

When I refitted the CPU heatsink earlier today I followed the instructions. You can see pics here - http://www.pellis.co.uk/techie_stuff.htm#Quiet_PC the pic of the CPU and heatsink with the paste on was from the first time.

I cleaned the surfaced with bogg roll paper and there were no remains.

Cooler not in full contact? Well how can I tell and what orientation should there be with the XP120 and the CPU

GrahamGarside · Post by **GrahamGarside** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:29 pm

bog roll won't do it, though I doubt this is whats causing the extremely high temperatures you should still clean with an alchohol based cleaner as there are lots of microscopic particles left behind if you don't so the new compound can't fill these gaps

as for being in full contact check and see if any motherboard components are touching the heatsink when it's installed as they could be preventing it from applying full pressure to the core.
with you getting such high temps with the stock cooler as well It does seem like air flow is the problem. what state is the dust filter of your sonata in?
you really shouldn't be seing temps like this though. I have a sonata case with an A64 3400+ cooled by a zalman cnsp7700-alcu and my core only reaches 60C, yours isn't even running to full capacity and reaching much higher.
try leaving the case side off and see if this helps, if it doesn't then there is definately something up with the coolers contact to the core

how many hdd's do you have and how are they mounted?

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:51 pm

petrolhead wrote:Cooler not in full contact? Well how can I tell

One good way of seeing whether or not your heatsink is firmly in place is to feel it. If the heatsink is really hot, then you know it's working, especially if you're getting 70+C

I think, though I'm not as sure about this, that one way of identifying whether airflow is your problem is to leave the case door off. If your CPU temps drop a lot by having the door open, you can bet that airflow is your problem.

GrahamGarside · Post by **GrahamGarside** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:50 pm

that may not always be true, with heatsinks as efficient as the xp120 the fins can feel quite cool
touching the fins on my 7700, they don't feel at all hot but my cpu temp can be between 55-60, now I've only just applied the ceramanique so it needs some time to burn in
your temps are also way too high for the stock cooler as well

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:26 pm

I just took a look at your pictures. My instincts tell me that you're using too much TIM. You should clean it off of both the CPU and HSF using >80% alcohol (not rubbing alcohol, it contains oils) using a lint-free cloth. Then apply a blob of TIM (ArcticSilver 5 or Ceramique) about the size of a grain of rice to the center of the CPU and DO NOT SPREAD IT! Others will disagree with me on this but here's my rationale. If you use a centrally located blob, when you place the HSF back on and clip it down, the blob will ooze out from the center forcing all of the air out to the sides. If you spread it out, however evenly, the possibility exists to trap air pockets in the TIM upon contact with the HSF with no way out.
Also, you should try flipping your CPU fan over so that it draws air from the CPU side and blows towards the case door. You have very little clearance between the vanes on the HSF and the PSU and I believe that the air is blowing down through the vanes to the CPU then getting diverted towards the Video card then getting drawn back into the CPU area in a vicious circle. If you flip the fan over, the exhaust fan has direct access to the hot CPU air and gets it out of the case before it can be recirculated.

In addition, you should read up on several Sonata mods (here). The Sonata has a restrictive intake problem that's well documented.

As a side note, I noticed that your RAM is not installed in matched DIMM slots (ie. Blue with Blue, black with black). Did you do this for a reason or was it just oversight. Oh, and your wiring could do with some cleaning up.

GrahamGarside · Post by **GrahamGarside** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:24 pm

just looked through those pics and you are putting on way too much compound. put some on the heatsink base and wipe it off with lint free cloth, this leaves microscopic amounts in any of the gaps. Then like Mr_Smartepants said, put a small amount, the size of a grain of rice in the centre and then let the pressure of the heatsink spread it out

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:12 am

Ok Mr Smartpants. If I didn't know better I think you were gruel, next you woould have made a comment about the carpet

As I said in my last post

the pic of the CPU and heatsink with the paste on was from the first time

The secont time I followed the grain or rice way and it was even hotter

I have already inverted the CPU fan so that it draws air up coz I also wondered about the recircualtion problem. It mage the Mobo cooker but not the CPU

Will have a read of te article. Wasn't sure about the ram, should it be matched and if so is there much difference?

Having the door open makes little difference

I must thank all of you so far for your patients and help

Keep it coming

Going to do another refit of the XP120, When the fins meat the heatsink, should that bit be directly over the cpu? If so then the heatsink would probably not fit.

Is evryone happy that the nexus fan is up to the job?

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:25 am

I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that your heatsink may be mounted the wrong way, though I have no way of proving it. Is it possible to mount it 180 degrees from how you have it in the pictures? In theory, it should be since Thermalright reports no incompatibilities yet.

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:24 am

Funny thing thats what I have just done

cpu - 68C
mobo - 35C

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:44 pm

petrolhead wrote:Ok Mr Smartpants. If I didn't know better I think you were gruel, next you woould have made a comment about the carpet

No, I wasn't being cruel. Just constructive criticism. Now, about that carpet.....

Since you said that there was little difference in the temps with your case door off, we'll assume that you have good airflow in the case. Taking that into account, it is possible that your nexus fan just isn't enough to cool your prescott P4. Can you try using a different/stronger fan for the CPU? Could you post a photo of the TIM after you remove the HSF? Maybe that'll give a clue. It's also possible that your XP120 isn't seated properly. Maybe one corner is resting on part of the CPU mount or a capacitor. It doen't take much.

petrolhead · Post by **petrolhead** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:02 pm

I am starting to think it could be the fan and concerering swapping the case fan with the cpu fan.

They recommend a Panaflo which has double the CFM

I am confident that the heatsink is flush with the cpu

But then I was confident Hitler would not invade Poland