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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Most of my external drives are empty enclosures paired with drives I have lying around, and I never use the crap drive software that comes with them, so I would like to hope that I wouldn't suffer a data loss problem. That said, it's only another issue I'm seeing with Mavericks.

Regarding the Windows updates, I'm far less concerned about them. The hardware that has to be supported is a much wider range, so I fully expect to see machines come in with things not really working right. Lets face it, MS does fairly well with their updates, considering the hardware platform is extremely diverse. When Apple screws up an update, it's pretty much a closed system (lets ignore the hackintoshes for this). They're screwing up on a much larger scale, because they have all the machines to test with. There's only a handful of Mac models to support, so when an update like Mavericks gets screwed up, it's way more obvious, and has disastrous consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Apparently, there are some mousing problems with 8.1 and some games.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:47 am 
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You really got to ask yourself, what does windows 8.1 really bring to the table that is so much better than windows 7? Does it bring enough enhancements to warrant all the hassles that come along with it? The only potential I see in Windows 8.1 is the exclusive access to directx 11.2. But I'm not even sure what makes directx 11.2 so much better than directx 11.1 I'm also not aware of any games that make use of the new features of directx 11.2 whatever those features may be. If games start taking advantage of something really nice in 11.2 then I will go for the update. Hopefully by then the majority of bugs will be worked out.

Microsoft limiting the latest directx version to windows 8 only is a very shady and deceptive move. There is nothing about windows 7 that wouldn't be able to handle directx 11.2. Microsoft does this on purpose to force people to buy upgrades and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth for Microsoft which is the primary reason for me using enterprise editions with volume serials for free rather than paying for a retail copy. I'm not the only one that takes their software for free because of this. Be more consumer friendly and your piracy rate will drop. Hope somewhere out there an MS employee is listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:51 am 
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AFAIK the different thing DX11.2 brings is it lets DX address system ram for storing texture and such, just like everything in 8/8.1 its aimed at the mobile computing market.
Windows 8/8.1 is imho a tablet and phone OS first and foremost, sure it can be used on a desktop PC but so could Windows CE and you wouldn't choose to use that as your main OS.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:45 am 
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I felt like trying Windows 8 again on the side for comparison with brand new games like Battlefield 4. But seeing as I then would do best to stay away from 8.1 rather than seeing that too as something to try, I've written off Windows 8 completely. I'll wait for Windows 9 and give that a chance. Perhaps with some new leadership the Windows division can make a few more good choices than bad ones for Windows 9.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:57 am 
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Given the direction of the industry, is waiting for Windows 9 (or whatever it ends up being called) really going to give you a step backwards into the desktop environment?

I consider Windows 8.1 stable on my machine. That's a narrow way of looking at it, but it is what it is, YMMV. I don't think Microsoft is going to take a step back and re-work the OS back towards the desktop environment next time around. I'd rather get used to this, and understand that as a repair technician, this is what I'm going to start seeing. I have a reason, almost a need, to get familiar with the operating system, even break it a couple times, and learn how to fix it (my girlfriends laptop has been trouble with Windows 8, but not the fault of Windows/Microsoft, there were problems with the laptop when I got it, used).

I have a hardcore Apple nerd friend, and the funniest thing about him is that he has a Windows Phone. Take that with a grain of salt, but even I've tossed the idea around of moving to a Windows Phone because it really doesn't look bad, and now that cloud data sharing has actually developed, the whole Outlook.com setup works well with Windows Phones, iCloud works well with iPhones, and the entire Google platform works really well with Android phones. And the best part is that to a degree, you can mix and match certain things successfully.

During the initial release, it's great to buy into the super cheap upgrade price, and then you can use it whenever you want. When I first bought Windows 7, I didn't install it for almost a year, but I ended up paying $9.99 for it. When I went for Windows 8 for $14.99 really wasn't much thought. The keys don't expire because I don't use them right away, and even the Media Center keys can be used. Being an early adopter can pay back short term, but buying in later is where so many people think it's a waste of money. It's all how you look at it. I may not be right, but it's saved me a lot of money comparatively.

As far as the gaming aspect goes, why don't you find the split between gamers who don't have a problem, and gamers who do, and out of those who do have a problem, what is pedantic, and what is a hardware or software issue, and see where the problems are. I'm sure that could change things. My word is far from the last, but that goes for everyone else as well.

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FartingBob wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:53 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Apparently, there are some mousing problems with 8.1 and some games.
Microsoft Releases W8.1 Patch for Mouse Gaming Lag

Quote:
There is a fix for lagging mouse movement while playing games in 8.1. The patch addresses problems with 22 games variations and more if you are computer savvy. The Microsoft Support website has launched a page with download links for the update that cover the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows 8.1, along with a download for Windows Server 2012 R2

Microsoft's support site says the patch fixes the problem for the following list of games:

Call of Duty: Black Ops
Call of Duty: Black Ops - Multiplayer
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Zombies
Call of Duty: Ghosts - Multiplayer
Call of Duty: MW2
Call of Duty: MW2 - Multiplayer
Call of Duty: MW3
Call of Duty: MW3 - Multiplayer
Call of Duty: MW
Call of Duty: MW - Multiplayer
Counter Strike: Global Offensive
Counter Strike: Source
Deus Ex : Human Revolution
Deus Ex : Human Revolution Director's Cut
Hitman Absolution
Hitman Sniper Challenge
Half Life 2
Metro 2033
Portal
Tomb Raider
In addition, people who download and install the patch can extend it to include other games that are not on the official list which are affected by the same mouse lag. The support page includes the rather complicated procedure to enable this extra support, which involves going into the Windows 8.1 registry.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:45 am 
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Popular gaming streamer kripparrian just bought a brand new laptop with windows 8.1. He plays a more indie game called path of exile. The game constantly locks up and freezes the computer which never happened before this. He says it is a problem with windows 8.1 and nvidia optimus drivers not working properly. He got a blue screen and the game didn't even log him out for 25 seconds according to the party he was playing with. In this game if you die you are sent to the softcore league from the hardcore league so unstable gaming makes it impossible to play as you cannot die even once or your character is useless.

So you can add to the list of problems nvidia optimus freezing and locking up some games on windows 8.1.

Quote kripp "I decided I would try windows 8 because people are always complaining about stuff when usually there isn't really a problem, people just like to talk crap, well windows 8 is a piece of crap my computer even locked up on the control panel when i was checking out settings"


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:46 am 
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I've seen many instances of hardware makers putting up release dates in 2014 for Windows 8.1 compliant drivers even for recent hardware. It's like the collaboration with hardware vendors largely broke down after the work on the initial Windows 8 release.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:35 am 
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laststop wrote:
Popular gaming streamer kripparrian just bought a brand new laptop with windows 8.1. He plays a more indie game called path of exile. The game constantly locks up and freezes the computer which never happened before this. He says it is a problem with windows 8.1 and nvidia optimus drivers not working properly. He got a blue screen and the game didn't even log him out for 25 seconds according to the party he was playing with. In this game if you die you are sent to the softcore league from the hardcore league so unstable gaming makes it impossible to play as you cannot die even once or your character is useless.


Not being a gamer (again) these problems don't really apply to me. What I would do is question whether it was really Windows 8 or if it was a problem regarding the hardware of the machine, or might be more related to an EFI/BIOS issue. I have seen completely unstable machines become rock solid after a BIOS update. All of these issues definitely have a root cause, and I would be more interested in knowing what troubleshooting was done in order to determine what the problem was, instead of just blaming 8.1 right off the bat.

I had problems (reason for why this thread even exists), but I found what was causing the problems, and the simple answer is, it wasn't Windows 8.1, it was third party software causing the errors. Moving back to older or even newer beta versions of drivers/software could make a difference, or not. Who knows, outside of trying and finding out. I don't own a single PC game, nor am I looking to buy one or install one (this is my work machine) but within reason, I'm sure it plays games quite well, because I tweaked the hell out of it until it was rock solid, not just "stable." No offense, but I've had "hardcore gamers" bring their computers in because they were dropped out of a car and the VGA and CPU coolers literally broke. I take anything from a gamer regarding what the problem really is with a HUGE grain of salt.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Most of the time it is third party software or drivers that cause the problems, unless Microsoft botch an update.
But doesn't that raise the question of why developers and hardware manufactures are having these problems with Windows 8/8.1 ?
If Microsoft don't give them a chance to develop software or drivers for the changes they made in the OS is that a problem with Microsoft or the developers ?

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:16 am 
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Spoon Boy wrote:
Most of the time it is third party software or drivers that cause the problems, unless Microsoft botch an update.


Correct.

Spoon Boy wrote:
But doesn't that raise the question of why developers and hardware manufactures are having these problems with Windows 8/8.1 ?


Because they're lazy/incompetent.

Remember Vista? NVIDIA's bad drivers caused most of the issues and people with stone age computers gave it a bad rep, yet everyone chose to ignore that and just blame Microsoft.

I guess it's no surprise here that is AGAIN NVIDIA that is having problems with drivers on new versions of Windows. Which is funny considering how people parrot about how great and stable NVIDIA drivers are.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:26 am 
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Calling developers lazy/incompetent is a little rich seeing as how Microsoft were still making major changes to 8.1 less than two weeks before GA.
Do you expect developers to be able to totally re-write their code in less than a couple of weeks ?
And its not just Nvidia having problems Windows 8.1 has been plagued with problems, its a sad fact that in trying to ape Apples faster release cycle they are using customers as beta testers.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:33 am 
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Spoon Boy wrote:
Calling developers lazy/incompetent is a little rich seeing as how Microsoft were still making major changes to 8.1 less than two weeks before GA.
Do you expect developers to be able to totally re-write their code in less than a couple of weeks ?
And its not just Nvidia having problems Windows 8.1 has been plagued with problems, its a sad fact that in trying to ape Apples faster release cycle they are using customers as beta testers.


Whatever you say buddy. It's all Microsoft's fault. All of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:20 am 
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rpsgc wrote:
Whatever you say buddy. It's all Microsoft's fault. All of it.

I'm glad we agree :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:04 pm 
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xan_user wrote:
Quote:
So MS give me a reason to spend 100 and I'll do it.

exactly.

(Im seriously thinking its time to build a hackintosh...)


Why you are looking at mackintosh, Xan_user? Already running OSX on your mac?

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Last edited by thierry. on Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:19 pm 
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thierry. wrote:
xan_user wrote:
Quote:
So MS give me a reason to spend 100 and I'll do it.

exactly.

(Im seriously thinking its time to build a hackintosh...)


Why you are looking at mackintosh, can_user? Already running OSX on your mac?

haven't used mac os since I was on a apple][c+, but i think it might be time to see what apple has to offer, given MS' latest mess.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:26 pm 
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It's a subject about Win8.1, so I won't write too much about OSX.
I'm running on OSX since 2007 (iMac then MacbookPro, the hackintosh for the last 13 months) + XP in office (and Win 7 for the last 6 months)

It was not easy to get my new machine with Win7 in office, but I got used to it.

Recently my mum's PC died and they got a new one. Only Win8 was available, so they took it.
What a mess for me to try to configure all (remotely with teamviewer). It was so different, with all the tiles, etc.

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