HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Got a shopping cart of parts that you want opinions on? Get advice from members on your planned or existing system (or upgrade).

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valeriojack
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:38 pm

HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:03 pm

Hello everyone,
i'm going to build my first HTPC. I live in Austria.
I would like to have:
  • Best xbmc experience (snappy and full control)(internet video streaming is important)
  • Capability of run light to medium games (Like Dolphin-wii emulator or Mortal Kombat 2011)
  • Ability to access the pc when i'm far from home (start torrent, http.proxy, access some files) (would be the best with some kind on wake on lan stuff)
  • Satellite TV
  • Quietness in idle and when playing movies
I have this Mediashelf in white:
Visage Wohnprogramm from Kika.com
http://images.kika.com/db/1/a/3/19280023_2_z.jpg

I have been thinking of two ways for HTCP positioning.
Option 1
One of the spaces on the bottom. 47cm wide, 40cm depth, 14cm height
The back of each of them has one hole for cables. Airflow quite limited.

Option 2
Tv on top of the Case.
I have a Panasonic l42u3b
http://www.reevoo.com/p/panasonic-viera-tx-l42u3b
The base measures 40x28,5 cm
I built the Mediashelf differently from the picture. I have a lot of space between the TV upper border and the shelf on top of it so height wouldn't be an issue.

Can you help me out with your opinions/build ideas?

Thanks you all,
Valerio



Option 1 Build Example:
Case
SilverStone Milo ML03 schwarz (SST-ML03B)
https://geizhals.at/silverstone-milo-ml ... 01658.html

PSU
Silverstone SST - ST40F - ES Strider Essential Series - 400 Watt
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/silversto ... ntial.html

Mobo
MSI H97M-G43 (7924-002R)
https://geizhals.at/msi-h97m-g43-7924-0 ... 11440.html

CPU
Intel Core i3-4160T, 2x 3.10GHz
https://geizhals.at/intel-core-i3-4160t ... 43858.html

RAM
Corsair Xms3 1600Mhz DD3 4GB
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/corsair/c ... -xms3.html

VGA
KFA² GeForce GTX 750 Ti OC Low Profile, 2GB GDDR5
https://geizhals.at/kfa-geforce-gtx-750 ... 10002.html

Low profile Bracket HDMI DVI VGA
https://geizhals.at/xfx-low-profile-bra ... 21722.html

DVB-S Pci-E 1x
TECHNOTREND TT - budget S2 - 4100 PCIe Slot Low Profile
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/citycom/s ... 0-dvb.html

SSD
SSD 840 EVO 250 GB SATAIII
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/samsung/m ... taiii.html

CPU Cooling
Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev.B SCBSK - 2100
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/scythe/sc ... 2-rev.html

Blu-Ray Drive
CD Blu - Ray ASUS BW - 16D1HT, B Bulk Silent
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/asus/90dd ... ta-bw.html

2x Fans
XILENCE Red Wing PWM 80 x 80x25
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/xilence/c ... xpf80.html

Flirc
http://thepihut.com/products/flirc-usb- ... spberry-pi

4x GamePad
Xbox 360 Wireless Controller with improved D-Pad
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B007R9S ... KAKR8XB7XF

Xbox 360 Wireless Adapter für Windows
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000MGV ... 0SX6NT1OWQ
Last edited by valeriojack on Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:19 pm

Welcome to SPCR.

Here's a couple of intro questions:
I'm limited in Case Height.
1) Most important question: Please explain why. Is it going into a cabinet/media shelf? If so, can you post a link to the furniture or at least post a picture? Need to know how restrictive it is for airflow. Otherwise, we could specify a nice small PC that will always overheat/be loud/throttle.

2) You are hooked up to a 1080p Monitor?
MK11
3) Do you mean Battlefield 4? If so, the GTX 750 Ti will probably give 50 fps at 1080p at High, but not Ultra settings.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:46 pm

answer integrated in original post to make things more clear
Last edited by valeriojack on Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:08 pm

Thanks for the additional info. The kika.com site wouldn't load for me, so I can't see the shelf...is it open in back or enclosed? If the latter, it will be scary.

The width is a concern. The 80mm fans will only get 1.5cm clearance on each side for airflow. This may make them noisier.

Bit-tech did a review of the ML03 a while back. PSU + Optical drive looks to be a tight fit. You might consider an external ODD or a smaller PSU. Your stressed load power is in the 140W range. Gaming load is <120W. You could consider a Pico-PSU + external brick.

The KFA2 card looks ok. Review at eTeknix. If you don't need as much GPU horsepower, there's also the Gigabyte GTX 750 low profile - and it comes with a low profile bracket. I don't know how it's noise level compares to the KFA2 card.

mobo and cooler: MSI makes decent mobos. The BS2 Rev B is a great cooler - make sure you have the clearances for it.

I'm not familiar with the Xilence case fans.

xan_user
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by xan_user » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:30 pm

Image is the back open? or a just few holes?

Abula
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Abula » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:01 pm

Have you considered a case like SilverStone RVZ01: A Mini Raven, i would probably add some rubber case feet to place it horizontal and have enough room to breath. This case should allow you to use a standard GPU, maybe something like upcoming ASUS GTX 750 Ti could work pretty well, specially with the case fan, probably the fan will not come on. I would also suggest you go with an Asus H97 motherboard with fanXpert to get control of all the case fans, msi isnt bad at all, but wont be able to drop 3pin fans as low as Asus, and the cases uses slim fans so not much choice of swapping, so motherboard fan control imo will play an important role on a case like this.

According to spcr review, the clearance is 74mm so in case you look into an aftermarket cooler, the Thermalright AXP200 should be very close with 73mm clearance with a fan. Nocuta NH-L12 might work, but without the top fan, you could use the case fan as it should be very close to the heatsink. Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev. B could be an option with the 58mm clearance.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:18 am

@Xan_user: The back is mostly closed. Just 1 hole for cables.
@Abula: The SilverStone RVZ01. I considered it but it is ITX. I need slot and room for a DVB-S card.
@CA_Steve: So i should reduce the PSU to a Picopsu 150W? Does any 200W solution exist?(just to be safe).
About the External ODD; i like to be able to move it to my other computer if needed or if i find it too noisy (i could use it through LAN). Any good (anydvd compatible) quiet Extern ODD recommendations?
About the Videocard i like the 1306GFLOPS with 40.8W of a 750Ti (maybe the OC version is a little less effective but it was low profile).

I'm also fearing that the system would run too hot in this constrained space.
I would accept another option.
A Case wide and tough enough to sustain the TV could be put under it.
I built the Mediashelf differently from the picture. I have a lot of space between the TV upper border and the shelf on top of it so height wouldn't be an issue. Consider that my media furniture is white and not wood color.
This new positioning would give the case much more visibility impact so i has to look decent.
I would not like it to float over the borders of this new hypothetical case.
TV Base: 40x28,5 cm

Primary post has been rewritten to integrate all the new informations

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:51 am

My suggestion would be to start from scratch and find a suitable case that looks good, can support 40# of TV, and fits the stuff you want inside with minimal noise at decent temps. (more on that in a bit)

You don't want to put a PC with a gaming card into an enclosed box like that shelf.

xan_user
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by xan_user » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:58 am

you could just use no case. youd need to cut some holes in the cabinet, mount a couple fans in the rear, and you could cover the front of those shelves with speaker cloth. (and hide the center channel speaker behind the cloth too.)

Pappnaas
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Pappnaas » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:26 am

A few random thoughts:

-Xilence fans are bad, try some Noiseblocker or even Arctic Cooling 80mm

-if you use a USB DVB-S card like http://geizhals.de/at/technotrend-tt-co ... 13401.html
you could go for a Node 304 (no ODD) or a CoolerMaster Elite 120 or Sugo SG02-F in white or the one Abula mentioned. Next bigger size could be Xigmatek Aquila or Bitfenix Phenom (M)

-the KFA has been reviewed by thg http://www.tomshardware.de/gtx-750-ti-o ... 588-7.html claiming some 36 dB@load and 32 dB@idle. But i don't trust their numbers.

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:29 pm

xan_user wrote:you could just use no case. youd need to cut some holes in the cabinet, mount a couple fans in the rear, and you could cover the front of those shelves with speaker cloth. (and hide the center channel speaker behind the cloth too.)
If it's nice, thick wood, then cutting holes/mounting fans could work. If it's just a thin particle board, you can get horrid fan resonance issues. (I learned this lesson a few years back, trying to add ventilation to an enclosed A/V cabinet).

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:42 am

Working on the Build for Option2, in a Silverstone GD04.
I read about the seasonic x400 whining problem.
Do anyone have experience with the silverstone strider 300w semifanless?

Any other psu to fit my build?
Calculated a peak of 250W on this website.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:34 am

valeriojack wrote:Working on the Build for Option2, in a Silverstone GD04.
That'd work.
valeriojack wrote:I read about the seasonic x400 whining problem.
Do anyone have experience with the silverstone strider 300w semifanless?

Any other psu to fit my build?
Calculated a peak of 250W on this website.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
Here's the funny thing about that calculator. While it's always wildly inaccurate for the peak power draw, it can unintentionally push the user into the right weight class of fanned PSU for quiet operation. Most fanned PSUs tend to have shallow rpm profiles until 50% load and then they quickly ramp up. So, if the calculator is off by a factor of two, then the user will always have a quiet PSU. In your case, as stated in my earlier post,
Your stressed load power is in the 140W range. Gaming load is <120W.
CPU TDP + GPU TDP + everything else = 35W + 60W + ~45W = 140W.

Since you don't have to fit into the Milo, you could consider getting a 54W i3.The power use in idle and lower cpu utilizations apps will be exactly the same and you get a little bump in speed if you need it for games.

PSU: The Seasonic whining is a hit/miss issue. Some people have problems, many don't. You probably want a modular PSU so there aren't lots of excess cables that you have to tuck away.

GPU: half-height benefit is better airflow in case. downside is noisier fan. If you go full height, the Asus STRIX version looks nice.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:47 pm

Hi, guys.

So i searched and searched and now i'm more confused than ever.
I've an Option2 build with several diffent possible picks. Please give me some hints in the right direction.
Thanks you all,

Case
SilverStone Grandia GD04
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.p ... 33&area=en

PSU (Noise levels??? Concerned...)
Super Flower Golden Green HX 350W
https://geizhals.at/super-flower-golden ... 39316.html
Seasonic 360W G - 360 ( 80 + Gold )
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/seasonic/ ... -gold.html
Be Quiet! L8 - 300W Pure Power 80 + Bronze
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/be_quiet_ ... -300w.html
Others?

Mobo
Gigabyte GA-Z97M-D3H [Only MoBo (H97 or Z97) i found at a moderate price with 3x 4pin ChassisFan headers]
https://geizhals.at/gigabyte-ga-z97m-d3h-a1107974.html

Is it possible to use a 4pin CPU Fan Header as chassis header? If yes i could opt for a passive heatsink and pick another mobo. Here some options:
https://geizhals.at/asus-h97m-plus-90mb ... 05995.html
https://geizhals.at/msi-h97m-g43-7924-0 ... 11440.html
https://geizhals.at/msi-z97m-g43-7924-0 ... 11441.html

CPU
i3-4370, 2x 3.80GHz
https://geizhals.at/intel-core-i3-4370- ... 43853.html

RAM
Corsair Xms3 1600Mhz DD3 4GB
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/corsair/c ... -xms3.html

VGA
ASUS STRIX-GTX750TI-OC-2GD5
https://geizhals.at/asus-strix-gtx750ti ... 43290.html

DVB-S Pci-E 1x
I have a skystar2 rev 2.6D Pci but i fear it would be too close to the VGA. I could buy a Pci-E DVBS card and have more room. Worth it?
Tuner Technisat Sky Star 2 eXpress HD DVB - S2 PCIe
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/technisat ... ss-hd.html

SSD
SSD 840 EVO 250 GB SATAIII
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/samsung/m ... taiii.html

CPU Cooling
Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev.B SCBSK - 2100
Active http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/scythe/sc ... 2-rev.html
SilverStone Nitrogon NT01-PRO
Passive https://geizhals.at/silverstone-nitrogo ... 12916.html

Blu-Ray Drive
CD Blu - Ray ASUS BW - 16D1HT, B Bulk Silent
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/asus/90dd ... ta-bw.html

3x Fans [What are the best fans i can get on mylemon.at?]
Scythe Slip Stream PWM 120 x 120x25
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/scythe/sy ... 2lm-p.html
Lüfter Be Quiet 120 * 120 * 25 Silent Wings 2 PWM
http://www.mylemon.at/artikel/be_quiet/ ... ngs-2.html
others?

Flirc
http://thepihut.com/products/flirc-usb- ... spberry-pi

4x GamePad
Xbox 360 Wireless Controller with improved D-Pad
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B007R9S ... KAKR8XB7XF

Xbox 360 Wireless Adapter für Windows
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000MGV ... 0SX6NT1OWQ
Last edited by valeriojack on Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Abula
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Abula » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:23 pm

valeriojack wrote:Gigabyte GA-Z97M-D3H [Only MoBo (H97 or Z97) i found at a moderate price with 3x 4pin ChassisFan headers]
https://geizhals.at/gigabyte-ga-z97m-d3h-a1107974.html

Is it possible to use a 4pin CPU Fan Header as chassis header? If yes i could opt for a passive heatsink and pick another mobo. Here some options:
https://geizhals.at/asus-h97m-plus-90mb ... 05995.html
https://geizhals.at/msi-h97m-g43-7924-0 ... 11440.html
https://geizhals.at/msi-z97m-g43-7924-0 ... 11441.html
Having 4pin headers dont mean that they are real PWM fan headers, most of the motherboard manufacturers have only 1 true pwm fan header that in most cases is the CPU_FAN, the rest even if they are 4pin they are voltage controlled.

First decide how you want to control the fans? bios? software? or external or internal fan controller?

If i were to go with software, i would chose an asus motherboard with fanXpert2, the cpu cooler will come with PWM fan, but for the case fans i would chose 3pin fans that can undervolt well, for example Scythe Slipstreams, Nexus Basic 120, Noiseblocker M12, Noctua NF-S12, and plug them into CHA_FAN headers, and let fanXpert2 control them.

Pappnaas
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Pappnaas » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:07 am

valeriojack wrote:PSU (Noise levels??? Concerned...)
Super Flower Golden Green HX 350W
Seasonic 360W G - 360 ( 80 + Gold )
Be Quiet! L8 - 300W Pure Power 80 + Bronze
Others?
The SuperFlower was tested by computerbase and they found it to be louder than a Seasonic G-550, so i'd recommend the G-360.
Subjektive Einschätzung: Super Flowers HX 350 ist weder ein lautes noch ein leises Netzteil. Die Lautstärke ist nie unangenehm, der Einsatz in besonders leisen Rechnern kommt aber nicht in Frage. Dafür ist die Drehzahl bei geringer Last zu hoch, zudem verursacht der Lüfter ein leichtes, gleichmäßiges Lagergeräusch. Bei hoher Belastung sind leichte Elektronikgeräusche (Surren) möglich. In nicht speziell auf geringe Lautstärke optimierten Systemen wird das HX 350 hingegen unauffällig seinen Dienst verrichten.
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-05/supe ... il-test/7/


Regarding MoBo i would not recommend any Gigabyte, look for AsRock or Asus
i. e. ASRock H97M Pro4
https://geizhals.at/asrock-h97m-pro4-90 ... 11359.html

VGA:
The Asus Strix is highly regarded, but i do not understand why you list a low profile bracket, since the Strix is full hight.

CPU-Cooling:
I am no friend of the Nitrogon, since it forces you to mount the 80mm fans in the back of the case, if the resulting temps are too high. Finding those 80mm fans could turn out to be a PITA.

120mm fans:
I'd give the Scythe a try, mainly because they should come in cheaper. Anyway, i would try stock fans at lower voltage first before buying any other case fans. If you want to have the case fans running according to cpu temp, you should look for PWM fans and a PWM splitter and run all from the CPU header on the MoBo.

quest_for_silence
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:18 am

Pappnaas wrote:The Asus Strix is highly regarded, but i do not understand why you list a low profile bracket, since the Strix is full hight.

And since the Grandia itself should be full height, differently from the Milo (but I think it's sort a mispaste/misprint).

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:42 am

@Pappnaas

PSU:
Let´s exclude the Flower from the list. Seasonic and Be quiet remains.

MOBO/FANS:
You suggest to pick a better MoBo even if it hasn´t the needed number of Chassis Fan Headers and compensate by connecting part of The Fans to the CPU Header with a PWM Splitter.
I could accept the solution as the Fans on the right side of the case will be mostly responsible for the cooling of the CPU area. Do you think the fans should be turned off under specific CPU temperatures and run on demand or to have a constant minimum airflow?

CPU COOLER:
I don´t love the design of the Nitrogon either. I picked it as an Option because it is a tower and fits the case with an ODD installed. The idea is to let the Chassis fans cool it down ( are quite close to it ) and leave it without the 80mm fans.

The Big Shuriken should be a no Brainer. My concearns about it are:
Isn´t the mixture between side airflow and top down airflow going to generate turbolence noise?
Wouldn´t be better to have a Tower Cpu Heatsink and let the chassis fans push air throught it?

@Pappnaas @Quest for Silence VGA Low Profile Brachet
Yes it was a copy/paste error. I removed it from the list.

@Abula
FAN
I would like to able to control the fans via Software/Bios. More important for me is to get them auto regulate the spin speed according to the needs first of CPU and secondly of GPU. If i can get this i don´t care about the method.

So you suggest to use the FanXpert2 function of Asus mobo to control good undervoltable 3pin Chassis fans.
I read nice things about FanXpert2 and wanted to use that in the beginning. What MoBo do you suggest?

Abula
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Location: Guatemala

Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Abula » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:18 am

valeriojack wrote:Isn´t the mixture between side airflow and top down airflow going to generate turbolence noise?
There is going to be turbolance regardless of what cooler you use, the issue would be if its audible or not, but if you pull the rpms of the fans low enough it should become inaudible, and still maintain below what manufacturers recommends in term of temps.
valeriojack wrote:Wouldn´t be better to have a Tower Cpu Heatsink and let the chassis fans push air throught it?
Its tough to get a tower below 120mm, Noctua NH-U9B SE is 125mm, Arctic Freezer 13 has 130mm need, the only tower that comes to mind that will fit is the discontinued Scythe Ninja Mini with 115mm height, but i dont think it will matter too much, there are high end coolers that can rival towers like Noctua NH-C14, but that wont fit either with the top fan installed, I think your choice of Scythe Big Shuriken RevB is pretty good, if you are not using the odd, then i would consider a little bigger heatsinks like Thermalright AXP-200 (73mm) or Noctua NH-L12 (93mm).
valeriojack wrote:I would like to able to control the fans via Software/Bios.
For BIOS Fan control.... i would go with MSI. For Software i would go with Asus, personally i prefer more minimalistic of no using anything extra, so MSI is my choice for now, but FanXpert2 imo is one of the easiest way to control fans, as long as you understand the limitations on the Asus design, and choosing properly the fans remains key for both settings.

For Example, for your build i would go different routes depending on the fan control.

BIOS Fan Control
On the motherboard, i would probably go with MSI H97M-G43, although im very curious about the new ECO line, MSI B85M Eco. I would go with Noctua NH-L12 mostly becuase im looking for the same range on the pwm fans, then i would grab a PWM fan splitter, and for case fans, Noctua NH-S12 PWM, all will have very similar pwm range, so all can be controlled by CPU_FAN header with the PWM fan splitter like GELID CA-PWM-03.

SOFTWARE Fan Control
I would go with ASUS H97M-PLUS, it has 1 true PWM fan header (CPU_FAN) and two CHA_FAN headers, that to what i have experienced they should be 3pin voltage controlled (although some user have reported they are now like the cpu_fan header in terms of being switchable between pwm and voltage controlled (i would use the scythe big shuriken with this header), personally i don't own any of the H97/Z97 to tell you for sure, but my Z87 CHA_FANs are voltage controlled, so i would recommend you get 3pin fans for the case fans. Now in my experience asus bios fan control is nothing great, presets is the best you can do, so FanXpert is what i would recommend as it will override the bios settings on the fan control and test your fans, and suggest a fan curve with the lowest idle rpms it can, this can be varied by you to your own liking. In here i would probably give a try to the included fans first as fanxpert will drop them as low as possible, and see form there if you like them or want better fans... if you do, Scythe Slisptream/Glidestream 800/1200, Nexus Basic 120, Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800/1150 rpms, Noiseblocker M12 S1/S2 are good options.

You can always test Speedfan, that many on this forum still use with great success, the trick is getting motherboard that is fully supported, personally i haven't had such luck.
valeriojack wrote:More important for me is to get them auto regulate the spin speed according to the needs first of CPU and secondly of GPU. If i can get this i don´t care about the method.
Both of the above setups will change the fan speed according to the CPU temperature, just a matter of preference into how you want to control the fans.

lodestar
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by lodestar » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:15 am

valeriojack wrote:I would like to able to control the fans via Software/Bios. More important for me is to get them auto regulate the spin speed according to the needs first of CPU and secondly of GPU. If i can get this i don´t care about the method.
As a start simply plug any fans that come with the case of your choice into the motherboard chassis fan headers. The BIOS will then control the fan speed based on how hot the CPU is. So at idle a lower speed, under gaming conditions higher or maximum speed. For example the SilverStone Grandia GD04 comes with 3 pin fans with a top speed of 1200 rpm. Plugged into a motherboard you would get control in something like the 7v to 12v range, so the fans should run from around 700 rpm upwards. MSI motherboards can do 6V to 12V giving a slightly lower minimum speed. Asus motherboards can drop the minimum speed of 3 pin fans even further if you use the Fan Xpert 2/2+/3 software. How much depends on the fan. PWM fans particularly the Noctua 120mm range such as the NF-S12A PWM can run at speeds from 300 rpm upwards under BIOS control, and with Fan Xpert down to 200 rpm. In either case effectively silent. To allow the 3 pin fans to run at the slowest possible speeds and also to have option of PWM chassis fans the best choice would be an Asus motherboard such as the Asus H97M-Plus. Only after seeing what the Fan Xpert results are would I suggest you consider replacing the chassis fans.

The Noctua Redux NF-S12B PWM is probably one of the best choices as a 120mm PWM chassis fan replacement right now. Partly because of its price, but also because it has a 400 to 1200 rpm range. So under BIOS control actual speeds at idle would be around 400 to 450 rpm but at the same time a higher speed up to 1200 rpm is available when more case airflow is needed under gaming conditions. With an Asus motherboard even the 400 to 450 rpm idle speed could be reduced with Fan Xpert software and again this does not affect the top speed. If there are more chassis fans then headers a PWM Y cable can be used to run both fans the fans attached to it at the same settings.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:52 am

@Abula and @lodestar
ASUS H97M-Plus has 1x CPU Pin and 2x 4Pin Headers. I'll need somekind of splitter to connect all 3 fans. Ideas?
The idea of testing the stock GD04 fans is interesting. More if i consider the 50-60€ needed for a set of 3 good 120fans.

@Abula
So let's fix the CPU Cooler. I'll buy the Scythe Big Shuriken as i'm putting a BR-ODD.
I read somewhere another post of yours regarding a more precise Bios fan control of asrock mobos. Maybe was something old. Can't find it anymore.
What do you mean with " limitations on the Asus design" ?
In what ranges do the modern MSI Mobo regulate the fans? (like 1% increases?)
Last edited by valeriojack on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lodestar
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by lodestar » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:14 pm

valeriojack wrote:ASUS H97M-Plus has 1x CPU Pin and 2x 4Pin Headers. I'll need somekind of splitter to connect all 3 fans. Ideas?
A PWM Y cable on one of the chassis fan headers will be sufficient, it will allow two fans to run from the one header. This is one source of this cable. If you buy fans like the Noctua NF-S12A PWM a PWM Y cable is included as part of the package. This partly explains why the S12A PWM costs around EUR 20 while the Redux S12B PWM is about EUR 14.

Image

Irrelevant
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Irrelevant » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:09 pm

valeriojack wrote:i'm going to build my first HTPC.
Good luck. IMO, there is no good off-the-shelf HTPC solution because PC's can't look like an A/V component without severely compromising airflow and/or limiting hardware choice, and no A/V furniture fits normal PCs without lots of assistance from power tools.

However, in my admittedly limited, extremely frustrating experience, the biggest problem with HTPC setups is often not the case but everything else. Walls, cabinet panels, and TVs tend to form very long, very inefficient chimneys (ie, they disrupt natural convection) and case fans can't produce the static pressure necessary to push air through them. For example, my brother used to have his HTPC in a Silverstone GD01 on a shelf in his A/V cabinet, with the case's rear poking through a large hole hacked into the cabinet's backing. One would think that cold air would be sucked in from the shelf's open front and hot air exhausted out the back, but instead, the poor 'puter ended up sitting in a bubble of heat and fan-noise.

As for fan control: SpeedFan. Best fan-control software out there, IMO. It works with most mobos and GPUs and though it's much harder to use than Fan Xpert, it's also much more powerful, allowing you to govern any controllable fan with any readable temperature or combination of temperatures.

Finally: be careful about daisy-chaining fans. Most fan headers aren't rated for more than 1amp, and two 120mm fans can surpass that. Fortunately, PWM fans have power and speed-control on different wires, so if you use something like this, all the power comes from the PSU, allowing a single header to control an effectively unlimited number of fans.

lodestar
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by lodestar » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:37 pm

Irrelevant wrote:...be careful about daisy-chaining fans. Most fan headers aren't rated for more than 1amp, and two 120mm fans can surpass that...
This is unlikely to be a problem with modern 120mm fans which normally have a maximum power consumption of between 0.5 and 2.5w. So using a PWM Y cable for two fans is not going to get very close to the 12w maximum rating of the fan header. But it is always worth checking the spec of the individual fan concerned. The Noctua NF-S12A PWM for example is rated at 1.44w.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:47 pm

My mind is going into the direction of the Asus Mobo + FanXpert + included Fans.

Today i looked at the prices at Mylemon/Amazon:
Case €95,25
PSU €58,83
Mobo €84,30
Splitter PWM Y €7,50
CPU €139,24
CPU Cooler €34,38
VGA €154,95
RAM €48,18
DVB-S €42,59
SSD €129,20
Blu-Ray €74,29
FLIRC 33€+ss
Gamepad 155,6+ss
Adapter 20+ss

Total 831,5€ + spedition.

I asked myself if i could make it cheaper.
CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 €56
RAM: 1333 4096 MB Corsair CL 9 €41,94
Cheap DVD just to install software (too noisy for other): 15€
2x Cheaper but still good Microsoft Controllers: EUR 26,45 each.

Total 651€ + spedition

It sacrifices the Blu Ray capability and some feedback with the controllers.
The CPU is another story i still have to figure out how much would this impact the performace. Any experience with it? performace stock? temps/performance at moderate OC?
Is the loss of hyperthreading going to kill some relevant capabilities?
Last edited by valeriojack on Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CA_Steve
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by CA_Steve » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:53 pm

Here's the stock Pentium performance vs i3. You can put your current CPU in there for comparison.

valeriojack
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by valeriojack » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:15 am

Does anyone one know if there is a way to change CPU Clock by command line?
I was thinking of writing a program to automatically change it depending on what application is running.

update:
I found a way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powercfg

Idea: Push the CPU high by Bios and limit max speed with Windows Power Schemes unless some app really needs power. At that point a script would detect the app is running and automatically change the power Scheme.
Question is if this trick gives something more in terms of energysaving/heat reduction than the built in Throttling regulation alone.
Any thoughts?

Pappnaas
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Pappnaas » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:16 am

What if Windows screws up? What if a windowsupdate-of-death lurks around?

Personally i am no friend of any of those software dependend cooling solutions, because one thing i have learned in the last 15 years of working in IT:

If you rely on a software, chances of failure are high.

Of course, there are thousands of other people having a different opinion/experience.

If it was my money, i wouldn't risk it getting toasted because of some software going beserk. My favorite method would be to have BIOS regulate fan rpm or set fans to a fixed voltage that has been tested to supply enough cooling and does not stress my ears. Kind of set and Forget.

YMMV.

Abula
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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Abula » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:05 am

valeriojack wrote:@Abula and @lodestar ASUS H97M-Plus has 1x CPU Pin and 2x 4Pin Headers. I'll need somekind of splitter to connect all 3 fans. Ideas?
The idea of testing the stock GD04 fans is interesting. More if i consider the 50-60€ needed for a set of 3 good 120fans.
Any of the 4pin Y splitters should work fine, as long as they are not the molex/sata power type, as you going to use the power from the motherboard with the undervolting. So the one that loadstar showed is fine.
valeriojack wrote:@AbulaSo let's fix the CPU Cooler. I'll buy the Scythe Big Shuriken as i'm putting a BR-ODD.
Remember you do need a little space for the fan to be able to breath, personally i like 20mm but its up to you. You can always do test with and without to see if the fan is starving or if the fan is not working as well as it could, etc.
valeriojack wrote:@AbulaWhat do you mean with " limitations on the Asus design" ?
What i meant by asus design, is that they lied in the past about all their fan headers being 4pin PWM, but the CPU_FAN is the only one true pwm fan header, and the rest, aka CHA_FAN, are voltage controlled. According to loadstar, if i understood correctly, the new H97/Z97 have this fixed.... personally i would bet into what we know works since they should work with both, but 3pin would be the best bet to know for sure on the CHA_FAN headers. Again i dont own a H97 motherboard to know for sure, only a Z87 where what i said still applies. But test it with the included fans before comitting to either pwm or 3pin, that way you didnt waste your money and maybe you like the included fans.
valeriojack wrote:I read somewhere another post of yours regarding a more precise Bios fan control of asrock mobos. Maybe was something old. Can't find it anymore.
In what ranges do the modern MSI Mobo regulate the fans? (like 1% increases?)
Yes the asrock according to grumdol, had 1% increments on the CPU_FAN and SYS_FAN1, both were true PWM fan headers, while MSI has 12.5% increments, at the end its just about getting as low as possible, but its not a big deal either, for example most of my Noctua fans work with 12.5%, idk how much lower i could get them, according to fanXpert2 charts of them, some are between 12 and 15%, so at the end is very close to what i can get them. Personally i would prefer the flexibility of 1% increments but i prefer to have similar flexibility on the SYS_FANs (voltage controlled 50% minimum and 10% increments) of the MSI motherboards than the asrock presets for the other SYS_FANs, but i don't own an Asrock to tell you for sure how it works, just by what i seen.

Unless you were sure that you one to go with BIOS fan control, i would go with MSI or AsRock if you like their motherboards, but i feel the Asus H97M-Plus will offers very good value for the money, and includes the flexibility of testing the included fans, and having fanXpert2.

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Re: HTPC / Light to Medium Games

Post by Irrelevant » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:39 pm

valeriojack wrote:I was thinking of writing a program to automatically change it depending on what application is running.
Seems like most overclocking software these days has that functionality without command-line fiddling, and I don't think software-overclocking is significantly more dangerous than BIOS. In fact, it might be less dangerous if you factor in interface-based human error and the difficulty of booting in Safe Mode versus doing a BIOS reset.
valeriojack wrote:Question is if this trick gives something more in terms of energysaving/heat reduction than the built in Throttling regulation alone.
It can if your profiles muck about with voltages, but I've never had luck with going below stock voltage and most games these days are so GPU-dependent that you'll probably gain very little by going above stock.

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