SFF gaming rig on a budget

[gaidal]

I am helping a friend choose components for a small gaming system. It should be quiet enough not to disturb people sleeping in the same room, even while gaming.
This friend is not very demanding but does play many different games (Steam, new titles etc) and doesn't like buying new computers too often.

I'm thinking something along the lines:

• Case - Carbide Air 240. Max cooler height is 120mm.
• Motherboard - Asus H97M-E or H97M-Plus. Maybe GA-H97N-Wifi.
• CPU - Intel Core i3-4370, 3.8 GHz, 54 W. Going quad-core still doesn't seem worth it for casual gaming, or is it?
• RAM - Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP, either 16 GB or just one 8 GB stick for now, depending on the total cost.
• Graphics - MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming OC. Not sure if this will last for a while or I'd better step up to a GTX 760?
• Disk - Crucial MX100 256 GB. Can get Evo 840 for almost the same price but I heard that those can be unpredictable...
• CPU cooler - Noctua NH-L12. Thinking it might be a safer bet in the long run than a Big Shuriken 2. A compact tower cooler (80mm fan) with horizontal air flow might fit better with case fans and be much cheaper, but I can't find any such coolers.
• Case fans - Initially just one Noctua 120mm as exhaust or top fan, to replace stock fans. An additional Noctua 140mm if it fits (already got one).
• PSU - Seasonic G360.

Any thoughts?

[quest_for_silence]

Any thoughts?

Some sparse thoughts.

What's the reason behind the choice of the Carbide 240?
Avoid if possible Gigabyte, less granular fan control over ASUS.
A 256Gb SSD is a bit low as the whole storage, particularly if your friend is a regular of Steam/Origin/the-likes.
About graphics, all depends of the monitor resolution.
Why you said that your friend "doesn't like buying new computers too often" but at the same time you're "Thinking it might be a safer bet in the long run than a Big Shuriken 2" (about the Noctua L12)? A Noctua L12 is a waste of money for a Core i3, pick a beefer SSD instead.

[gaidal]

What's the reason behind the choice of the Carbide 240?

It's sort of small but should provide better airflow than most small cases (5x 120mm slots + dual-chamber design), while also being quite cheap. My own Coolcube eventually required making a hole and adding an external fan, so I thought I'd go for something safer. Open for suggestions though!

Avoid if possible Gigabyte, less granular fan control over ASUS.

Right, OK!

A 256Gb SSD is a bit low as the whole storage, particularly if your friend is a regular of Steam/Origin/the-likes.

Good point. He said he didn't need/want more than 256 GB, but I'll mention it again.

About graphics, all depends of the monitor resolution.

1920x1080. On a second thought I don't the 760 GTX is worth it, it's last year's technology and draws 170 W vs 60 W, for just a few extra FPS. It likely won't help in 2 years.

... Noctua NH-L12 seems overkill ...

I see your point, I was not thinking of upgradability but of reliability. I wouldn't be surprised if the fan in a Big Shuriken only lasts for a year or so, having compared it to a Noctua. With just one fan replacement, those two are equal in price, and Noctua is known to be rock solid. Secondly, the NH-L12 comes with 2 fans, so you sort of get a Noctua case fan for free.

[edh]

It's sort of small

At 33 litres, it's really sort of massive. For that kind of volume (and footprint as it is very wide) it can't be classed as SFF. If MicroATX is the form factor to use then there are far smaller alternatives like the Silverstone SG09, SG10 and TJ08-E. I would pick the TJ08-E for a quiet system.

The separate PSU compartment is not a unique point but given the layout of the Corsair, it adds enormously to the size. Not a space efficient design unless you intend to fill the thing up with hard disks too.

[gaidal]

I would pick the TJ08-E for a quiet system.

This case looks interesting. I'll have to check if the 180mm fan is quiet enough and replaceable. Also I think they top exhaust for the PSU is weird and I wish it came without 5.25" drive slots. But I'll consider this one, you're right that the Carbide Air 240 is bigger than it needs to be.

[Abula]

If you are into white and form factor.... then i would consider Silverstone Tek Micro-ATX Mini-DTX, Mini-ITX Mini Tower Plastic with Aluminum Accent Computer Cases SST-PS07W (White), its similar to the TJ08-E but with the 120mm, which can be much easier replaced in case you are searching for a more quiet setup. Has a SSD mount on the bottom.

I would also go with 750Ti, i own one and for 1080p in the usual popular games like WOW, LOL, is really good enough, specially for such a low consumtpions im still amazed into what this little card can do. I would consider more the jump into GTX970 if he needs more performance then the GTX750Ti can give, or wait for january for the upcoming GTX960.

On the SSD, if you wnt consider a mechanical for storage, then i would go with 512GB version of the MX100, space over time is always needed.

On the CPU, it depends, i would say you will be fine with a dual core i3.... but wih the consoles starting to support multicore and most is coming from porting.... i would say more and more new games will start to take the advantage of a quad, i would consider a close in price i5 4430. Its much easier to just upgrade GPUs down the road, and specially since tech like DX12 will not be functional on our today cards, so for me upgrading gpus is more important over time. Also an important thing is that with AMD bearly putting a fight into high end, Intel is milking us with such a small upgrades form gen to gen, broadwell seems just a refresh with a lower arch, skylake seems like its going to be adopting ddr4, PCIe 4.0, and probably slightly faster, still i dont think it will be more than 10% over haswell, as i said they will be milking us for such small upgrades, so quad isnt a bad idea, over time it should be a better investment, then again anything invested on PC get devalued so fast...

On the CPU cooler, if you were to chose the PS07, it can fit almost any tower, with a gpu right next to, the biggest i would go is something like Thermalrigth HR02 Macho (black) or Scythe Kotetsu/Mugen4, either of this coolers offer very good value for the money and will handle almost any cpu in the market.

[Pappnaas]

Another interesting case imho is the Xigmatek Aquila
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Xigmatek/Aquila/

I'd seal the top opening with black card board though.

Scythe fans will last as long as Noctuas, over the years i assembled some systems with Ninja, Shuriken and other Scythe cooler and never had to swap any of their fans, so i don't know how you come to the assumption that Scythe fans will fail before Noctuas do.

[Abula]

About the fans, in case you chose the PS07, specially since you are going with Asus motherboard with fanxpert, test the included fans, fanXpert will undervolt them to their minimum allowed, and work from there if you need more cooling or more quiet setup, etc. But in case you do want better fans, i would suggest 3, specially for the way that Asus design their boards with headers. For the case fans, i would go with 3pin fans, Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm Case Fan- 1150RPM, 16dba, 37.1cfm, they will unvervolt a lot, and should end up like 400rpms idle with fanXpert2 on a CHA_FAN header.



The other two i would consider is the Noctua NF-S12B redux-1200 PWM 3pin and Noiseblocker M12-S1/2.

[lodestar]

...Scythe fans will last as long as Noctuas, over the years i assembled some systems with Ninja, Shuriken and other Scythe cooler and never had to swap any of their fans, so i don't know how you come to the assumption that Scythe fans will fail before Noctuas do.

Scythe quote a substantially lower MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) for their Slipstream and Glidestream sleeve bearing fan ranges that Noctua (30,000 hours versus 150,000 hours). The issue is does this or will this make any difference in practice. In my experience yes it does. I have had two Scythe Slipstreams fail with partially seized bearings, one of which was a CPU fan. Rather than replace them with Glidestreams I opted for Noctua or Noctua Redux instead. It's a shame Scythe don't fit a better quality fluid dynamic bearing such as the one fitted to the now discontinued Scythe Kama Flow 2 - this was rated for 120,000 hours. Even the ball bearing Gentle Typhoon range which has been discontinued for around a year (although some stocks still seem to remain) had a MTBF of 100,000 hours.

[quest_for_silence]

In my experience yes it does.

In my experience no it doesn't: my oldest Big Shuriken (I have three between 1 & 2) is running since 2008 and its fan is still going strong, no wearing, no bearing noise, no whatever issue at all.
IIRC in the past ten years the only Scythe fan which gave me some problem was a S-FDB (120.000hrs rated) Kama Flex PWM (set aside the 80mm S-Flex A&B, again FDB equipped, which just sounded bad).

Shit happens and one swallow does not a summer make, lodestar, so keep calm & buy some more (good) Scythe fans.
I'm just teasing, ok?

[quest_for_silence]

Another interesting case imho is the Xigmatek Aquila
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Xigmatek/Aquila/

It's the same chassis used for the Aerocool DeepSilence and DeepCool Steam Castle.
IMVHO that design doesn't worth that much, but it's just my personal opinion.

If the so-called "elephant in the room" design is what the OP and his friend are looking for, the best bang for the buck IMHO is still the Bitfenix Prodigy M, while the main, direct competitor of the proposed Carbide 240 is the Fractal Design Node 804 (a bit larger, so more flexible, a tad more expensive, and probably quieter).

[lodestar]

...so keep calm & buy some more (good) Scythe fans.

I have and am happy to use the Kama Flow 2. In any case most 120mm Glidestreams have joined the discontinued list, only the 1200 rpm three pin remains and the PWM range is just the 300 to 1300 rpm SY1225HB12M-P. The Kotetsu CPU cooler is fitted with a variant of this, the 400 to 1400 speed SY1225HB12SM-P.

From the Scythe European web site:

Model Name:
GlideStream 120 mm fan

Model-No.:
SY1225HB12SL - End of Life
SY1225HB12L - End of Life
SY1225HB12LM - End of Life
SY1225HB12M
SY1225HB12SM - End of Life
SY1225HB12H - End of Life
SY1225HB12SH - End of Life

Model Name:
GlideStream 120 mm PWM Fan

Model-No.:
SY1225HB12M-P
SY1225HB12SH-P - End of Life

[OverTheTop]

I just built a SFF using the Thermaltake Core V1 and it's pretty damn good. Case could be smaller and the 200mm fan is a little 'whooshy' very late at night but overall I'm impressed.

[gaidal]

• TJ08-E
• PS07
• Aquila
• Core V1

The Carbide Air 240 doesn't look so attractive anymore.
But if that's a bit too large - which I do agree with - then the same goes for TJ08-E, PS07 and the Aquila. Something smaller would be nice. Somewhere around 20 liters - smaller than most of the mentioned cases, but with proper 120mm fan slots unlike my own 10 liter Coolcube/V3.

Core V1 looks decent. I'm also considering Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill U2 and Lian Li's PC-Q08.
The U2 supports tower coolers which feels like a plus, although the other two have top/high exhausts which is probably worth more in practice.
There's one really cheap Core V1 available at the moment, then it might be sold out.

[lodestar]

If I can just revisit your objectives for this system, the main issue is that it has to be as quiet as possible when used for gaming. To achieve this with a GTX 750 Ti it might be worth considering using an entirely passively cooled version such as the Palit GTX 750 Ti KalmX or the semi-passively cooled Asus GTX 750 Ti STRIX. How the STRIX works is that it has fans but does not run them until the GPU hits a set temperature. So the fans would be off under idle or low system stress conditions, but are likely to turn on when gaming. Like all temperature controlled cooling arrangements ambient temperature could also be a factor. However both of these options work best in a case with maximum thermal performance and sufficient case fans to generate enough airflow to keep GPU (and CPU) temperatures at a minimum. Of all the cases mentioned so far, the best candidate for this would be the Corsair Carbide Air 240. It is a high airflow case which partly explains its larger size. Used with a Asus STRIX it would delay the point at which the fans triggered. And if the fans did start to run it would help to keep them in the lower speed ranges.

[gaidal]

Of all the cases mentioned so far, the best candidate for this would be the Corsair Carbide Air 240. It is a high airflow case which partly explains its larger size. Used with a Asus STRIX it would delay the point at which the fans triggered. And if the fans did start to run it would help to keep them in the lower speed ranges.

Which is of course why I originally picked that case. It just isn't as cute as those other cases people are linking...

[quest_for_silence]

It is a high airflow case

Really?
At first glance that wouldn't seem so: a wide open case doesn't mean an "high airflow" one, even better, cooling wise that Carbide 240 would seem rather mediocre.

[quest_for_silence]

• TJ08-E
• PS07
• Aquila
• Core V1

That TT would seem mITX only.

[gaidal]

... cooling wise that Carbide 240 would seem rather mediocre.

It might not be ideal, but with 7 (!) slots for 120mm fans and no PSU or disk cage blocking that airflow, it already has more potential than most. It is very open indeed, I just haven't seen a mITX case that does this better.

That TT would seem mITX only.

Getting a mITX board is no problem.

[lodestar]

Which is of course why I originally picked that case. It just isn't as cute as those other cases..

Stick with your original choice, it may not be cute but based on the reviews I looked at it certainly has excellent cooling abilities. With regard to your potential motherboard choices, either of the Asus boards the H97M-E or H97M-Plus have the advantage of supporting the Asus Fan Xpert 2+ software. Plugging the case fans into the motherboard will give thermal control, so at idle the fans will run at their lowest speed and they will speed up to provide more airflow while gaming. Fan Xpert 2+ may potentially be able to lower the idle speed that can be achieved by BIOS control only. The other thing it can do is to set fans to only turn on at a specified temperature. So you would not necessarily have to run all the fans at idle, one or more could be set to only turn on when the CPU hits a specified temperature such as 50C which would normally only happen when gaming. It gives the option to have less fan noise at idle or low system stress while not compromising on airflow under gaming conditions.

[quest_for_silence]

It might not be ideal, but with 7 (!) slots for 120mm fans and no PSU or disk cage blocking that airflow, it already has more potential than most. It is very open indeed, I just haven't seen a mITX case that does this better

I said it seems mediocre, and not null: mediocre means that (for instance) as a more traditional BitFenix Prodigy M gives more probably that not a better cooling, then that wide-open-being is probably meaningless/fruitless, if not self-defeating.

based on the reviews I looked at it certainly has excellent cooling abilities.

Excellent? Any word has a somehow precise meaning, and more probably that not excellent does not particularly attain the 33lt Carbide 240: anyway, which reviews are you talking about?

[Pappnaas]

7 fan slots? We learned in the early days that this probably means 5 slots have to be covered by card board. Just remember that silent computing is about airflow and the right fans at the right rpm in the right places.

And don't forget, the more mesh, the more dust inside. The days of hot components are long gone, so I see no special value in having an open mesh case. Case manufactures need to reinvent the wheel almost twice a year, but they normally don't come up with something really new.

So don't fall victim to the all new fangled marketing hypes.

[lodestar]

There are two intake fans on this case that blow over the motherboard, the graphics card and CPU cooler towards the back of the case. The back of the case has slotted expansion slot covers plus two vacant exhaust fan positions. There are three top exhausts, partly I would assume as this is a Corsair case to accommodate one of their All In One water cooling CPU devices. One of the top fan positions is filled as standard. I don't know the fans fitted by Corsair, presumably they would have a top speed around 1200 rpm so under motherboard BIOS control this would drop to something like 700 rpm at idle. With an Asus motherboard the use of Fan Xpert+ software might improve on this, down to 600 rpm maybe. This seems to be a fairly efficient and reasonably quiet setup by gaming case standards. So I don't think that blanking vacant fan positions with cardboard would improve the noise levels much or improve airflow.

[Pappnaas]

So I don't think that blanking vacant fan positions with cardboard would improve the noise levels much or improve airflow.

Why use intake fans at all? Aside from a positive pressure setup?

If you use 1 outtake fan, seal all openings except those in the front, you should have a sufficient airflow in theory. The single top fan is surrounded by openings, which might create a shortcut, sucking air in at the wrong places. What happened to the classic airflow, intake in front, air blowing over HDDs and leaving the case through the back outtake fan?

Modern gaming cases are full of fan spots, openings and mesh. But is it really needed or just eye candy and mostly useless?

[quest_for_silence]

But is it really needed or just eye candy and mostly useless?

Mostly questionable, at best.

[CA_Steve]

Unless you have a case where the airflow is tuned to go from the bottom to the top (like the FT02), the only reason to have a top vent is for a radiator.

[gaidal]

This is all very Interesting. The Carbide Air 240 was pretty hyped a while back and reviews seem very positive. But maybe it would be better suited for a dual-GPU-overclocked-i7 kind of setup, than what I'm going for...

Next suggestion: Thermaltake Core V1. Replace huge fan with quieter (?) Noctua 140mm PWM at front, add 2 Noctua 80mm PWM as rear exhaust, Noctua NH-U9B tower cooler in the middle should create a decent wind tunnel. Seasonic G360 at the bottom. MSI OC 750 Ti was called "the quietest card I've ever reviewed" in a review. This setup should be very silent, right?
I can get this case for a price that more than compensates for the case fans.

[quest_for_silence]

This is all very Interesting. The Carbide Air 240 was pretty hyped a while back and reviews seem very positive.

To be fair, hour gentle host, MikeC, seems to agree with lodestar (and those reviews) judging that Carbide 240 an excellent pick.

Obviously that doesn't mean that out of the blue I'm starting to think it's a really good case (as a matter of fact several times I didn't agree with SPCR findings), but I'm curious about what "Silent Mike" have to say about it.