Quiet Gaming/Media/HT PC System Advice

[mcm77]

Hi,

After taking my time in planning and reading threads on these forums in preparation for building a new quiet gaming rig, I would like to consult you on its merits and any potential improvements.

Goal: Replace my current aging gaming rig (E6600 + GTS 450 passive, mostly used to play Dragon Age, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc) to allow playing next gen titles such as Shadow of Mordor, Dragon Age: Inquisition, etc. I play the games when the rest of the family is asleep so the sound is kept to reasonably low-mid levels to avoid disturbance. Hence the need for a quiet PC system. Rig will be placed at a distance between 3.5m and 4m from my seating position.

Case: Fractal Design Mini http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fractal-Design- ... 110&sr=8-1
£62.00

Cooling: Fans supplied with the case

PSU: Seasonic 460W Fanless http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004 ... UTF8&psc=1
(transfer from the old build, so cost only £20.00 to buy a new basic PSU for the old build)

Motherboard: MSI B85M-E45 mATX XMP http://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-B85M-E45-LG ... 143&sr=1-3
£43.00

CPU: Core i5 4460 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-3-20GHz-G ... 564&sr=8-1
£140.00

CPU Cooling: Scythe Kotetsu http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scythe-Kotets ... 4d23fb5803
£33.00

Memory: 16Gb corsair ddr3 vengeance 1600MHz 9-9-9-24 1.5V XMP http://www.scan.co.uk/products/16gb-%28 ... red-cas-9-
£130.00

Graphics: Palit GTX 970 Jetstream http://www.pcnation.co.uk/product/15529 ... phics-card
£265.00

Hard Drive: Crucial 1TB M550 SSD CT1024M550SSD1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT1024M ... ds=1TB+SSD
£265.00 (already bought at Ebay for this amount)

Backup: Network

Optical Drive: Pioneer-BDC-207DBK Blu-ray http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pioneer-BDC-207 ... uray+drive
£39.00

OS: Windows 8.1 with Update

Total: £997.00

Display: Rig will be connected to a 55" 1080p Sony TV and also doubles as the home media and entertainment hub. To be used for DVD/Blu-ray playback, streaming music videos (Youtube), streaming music (Spotify) and local music playback (FLAC with Foobar2000).

Sound: High-end Hi-Fi/5.1 system with dynamic equalization (MultiEQ XT) managed by a Denon AVX receiver.

Any advice and comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Martin

P.S. Forgot to mention that I am not interested in either SLI or overclocking, hence the choice of chipset, motherboard, RAM and CPU.

[CA_Steve]

16GB RAM for a game build is currently overkill. You can always add more later. I'd use some of the savings and go for an H97 board...mostly for newer UEFI and maybe a faster base-clocked i5.

Check out our ongoing GTX 970 thread. MSI Gaming and Asus STRIX are the leaders for silence/quiet.

Since you have networked storage, why did you go for a 1TB SSD? That's a fair bit of money.

I don't think I'd put a £20 in any PC...old or new

[mcm77]

16GB RAM for a game build is currently overkill. You can always add more later. I'd use some of the savings and go for an H97 board...mostly for newer UEFI and maybe a faster base-clocked i5.

Check out our ongoing GTX 970 thread. MSI Gaming and Asus STRIX are the leaders for silence/quiet.

Since you have networked storage, why did you go for a 1TB SSD? That's a fair bit of money.

I don't think I'd put a £20 in any PC...old or new

Thanks for the comments. In my experience RAM and local storage have always been the things that run out first on any PC I had, hence the investment. E.g., today I learned that the new Battlefield game requires minimum 6GB ram and 66GB storage!! The recommended settings quote 8GB RAM .

I am not a big fan of FPS games, but this just shows where new games are going: Apparently Dragon Age: Inquisition is based on the Battlefield engine, so I won't be surprised if the requirements are similar. Installing 4-5 games like this and I will be already pushing a 512GB SDD...

As for the CPU, I could go for a higher clock speed. Unfortunately CPU value does not scale that well in games. In you opinion which of the i5 4460, 4590 and 4690 is the best value in gaming? Tom's hardware think that it's the 4460...

Re GPU: Yeah, jumped onto that thread already; still not decided 100% which to buy, the Palit had some good reviews and is the cheapest and most available in the UK. As for quietness, apparently different web site reviews came with different results, some got the Palit as the most quiet. Looks like they all are probably very close, hence deciding on the price.

Re Motherboard: This is something that really interests me: The MSI board I selected has the newest UEFI apparently (it's a new board model). Is there any other advantage of H97 for my goals: These boards are > 20% more expensive, but bring nothing that I need (as far as I can see...).

Re PSU: You've got me here: I will probably go for the Coolermaster Elite Power RS500 500W which is £31 which is definitely overkill, but probably better quality that what I had planned (ColorsIT CIT400HE 400W).

Thanks again,
Martin

[CA_Steve]

gpu: looks to be similar in noise to the MSI and Asus. Runs a little hotter, but not a big deal. Give it a shot.

Build philosophy: I don't see PCs as 'build them once and then hermetically seal the device until it gets replaced'. For me, it's an organic thing that changes over time. I tend to go for the K version of the CPU. I don't overclock with the initial build...but do it a couple years later when I need the fps. I buy a mid-range gfx card ($200-250) knowing it'll be replaced in 2-3 years rather than the $300-400 card that gets replaced in 3...maybe 4 years. I buy the RAM I need today, knowing that adding more RAM later is the single easiest component to install. I buy the storage I think I need today, knowing SSDs only get cheaper in price (hence my initial build 9 months ago with a 256GB 840 EVO...and then adding $100 256GB MX100 a few weeks ago). If I stop playing a game and I need SSD space, it's on my backup HDD.

B85 mobo: If it truly has the current gen UEFI, go for it.

[quest_for_silence]

Re Motherboard: This something that really interests me: The MSI board I selected has the newest UEFI apparently (it's a new board model). Is there any other advantage of H97 for my goals: These boards are > 20% more expensive, but bring nothing that I need (as far as I can see...).

The B85 chipset has higher DPC latency (a possible issue for an HTPC, particularly at streaming), and MSI hasn't the best UEFI to run 3-pin voltage controlled fan, as the ones inside the proposed Fractal Design Define Mini (ASUS and ASRock work noticeably better in this respect).

[yakuman]

Here's a video comparison of the Palit vs MSI gtx 970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVLC-ORD6e8

[mcm77]

Hi,

Thanks all for the replies!

Here's a video comparison of the Palit vs MSI gtx 970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVLC-ORD6e8

Watched this already, yeah: The only thing I see in it is that the MSI has a better build quality, but would it matter in practice? Don't know. Still open to any of the 3 semi-passive GTX 970 cards.

Re Motherboard: This something that really interests me: The MSI board I selected has the newest UEFI apparently (it's a new board model). Is there any other advantage of H97 for my goals: These boards are > 20% more expensive, but bring nothing that I need (as far as I can see...).

The B85 chipset has higher DPC latency (a possible issue for an HTPC, particularly at streaming), and MSI hasn't the best UEFI to run 3-pin voltage controlled fan, as the ones inside the proposed Fractal Design Define Mini (ASUS and ASRock work noticeably better in this respect).

Re DPC: This is new stuff for me, never had any issues with my current setup: 1080p Youtube music video playback works great and no dropped frames. Did some googling and reading on the topic, but can't find anything that claims that B85 would have streaming issues where a better chipset would not. Can you provide some links to support this?

Re MSI fan control: Now this is interesting. I like that the MSI has 2 chassis fan connectors, and the more expensive ASUS B85-G only 1; the ASUS B85-E has 2, but costs 30% more, nearly the same as AsRock H97M. Should do more research on this...

gpu: looks to be similar in noise to the MSI and Asus. Runs a little hotter, but not a big deal. Give it a shot.

Build philosophy: I don't see PCs as 'build them once and then hermetically seal the device until it gets replaced'. For me, it's an organic thing that changes over time. I tend to go for the K version of the CPU. I don't overclock with the initial build...but do it a couple years later when I need the fps. I buy a mid-range gfx card ($200-250) knowing it'll be replaced in 2-3 years rather than the $300-400 card that gets replaced in 3...maybe 4 years. I buy the RAM I need today, knowing that adding more RAM later is the single easiest component to install. I buy the storage I think I need today, knowing SSDs only get cheaper in price (hence my initial build 9 months ago with a 256GB 840 EVO...and then adding $100 256GB MX100 a few weeks ago). If I stop playing a game and I need SSD space, it's on my backup HDD.

B85 mobo: If it truly has the current gen UEFI, go for it.

Re GPU: Will probably do, but this will be my last purchase for the build, hoping that UK prices will drop a bit to match better the US market, that is, when availability improves.

Re mobo: More research required, apparently, considering getting a somewhat more expensive mATX board now...

Re builds: I suppose you like way more tinkering with your build than I do. For me it's just too much hassle, I simply enjoy placing it there with all the other AV stuff and only replacing stuff when it breaks down or I run out of something (memory or storage). My current build was done 8 years ago, and I've replaced mobo, PSU and GPU when they broke down, doubled RAM and quadrupled storage. It now retires to be my new home office build (replacing another, 12 years old build) and hopefully will last 4+ more years in this role .

Re OC: When the FPS is not enough in a new game, I just reduce the game quality settings: After all, it should not look much worse that the prev-gen title I just finished on max settings . I skip several generations until I finally get interested enough to invest time and money in a new build.

Best regards,
Martin

[mcm77]

Hi,

Following the advice above, I looked into getting a better chipset/mobo + CPU for my build as recommended above: An immediate improvement with little more cost (~£20) will be to get an i5 4590 CPU + AsRock B85M Pro4. This provides better chassis fan control and better clock speeds, especially the turbo.

However, I am getting tempted on the idea of overclocking: Spent time reading on this, but as a complete OC n00b, some advice on how to get things right will be very appreciated: Is it enough to just get i5 4690K + AsRock Z97M Pro4 (for ~£52 more) in my build? Do I need higher clock RAM, different CPU cooling, beefier PSU, more case fans, etc?

My OC target will be 4 - 4.4GHz, not wanting to push power consumption + cooling noise to a significantly more audible level (at 3.5m distance); stable OC without increasing the voltage will be the main goal.

Any help is very welcome!

Thanks,
Martin

[quest_for_silence]

However, I am getting tempted on the idea of overclocking: Spent time reading on this, but as a complete OC n00b, some advice on how to get things right will be very appreciated: Is it enough to just get i5 4690K + AsRock Z97M Pro4 (for ~£52 more) in my build? Do I need higher clock RAM, different CPU cooling, beefier PSU, more case fans, etc?

A starting point could be: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devi ... i5-4690k/2.
In my experience often Anadtech findings turn out to be a tad optimistic, but they're surely useful as ballpark figures: probably you can find a bit more realistic data on this page at Xbit Labs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0 (although those should be regarded as ballpark figures either).

Given that, providing you won't apply excessive voltages, you shouldn't need beefier heatsinks and PSU, nor usually more case fans (more useful with hot and oc'ed GPUs), but a more robust mobo may help (I mean, fully heatsinked power circuitry and more digital power phases): under this respect, I don't know significantly better mobo than quoted ASRock at comparable price (the ASUS Gryphon may turn to be better but the price difference makes this possibility rather questionable).

But if you want to achieve the highest stable overclock (4.4GHz and more), more probably that not you can't think to do that at a (relatively) quiet level, just at a moderately noise level (on load): and so a more performing but noisier heatsink may come in handy (like, maybe, a dual radiator NZXT Kraken 61, recently reviewed by SPCR), as well as a different enclosure (something like a NZXT Source 340 would be more versed towards liquid cooling, in case, without excessive measures, but there are many).

[mcm77]

However, I am getting tempted on the idea of overclocking: Spent time reading on this, but as a complete OC n00b, some advice on how to get things right will be very appreciated: Is it enough to just get i5 4690K + AsRock Z97M Pro4 (for ~£52 more) in my build? Do I need higher clock RAM, different CPU cooling, beefier PSU, more case fans, etc?

A starting point could be: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devi ... i5-4690k/2.
In my experience often Anadtech findings turn out to be a tad optimistic, but they're surely useful as ballpark figures: probably you can find a bit more realistic data on this page at Xbit Labs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/di ... html#sect0 (although those should be regarded as ballpark figures either).

Given that, providing you won't apply excessive voltages, you shouldn't need beefier heatsinks and PSU, nor usually more case fans (more useful with hot and oc'ed GPUs), but a more robust mobo may help (I mean, fully heatsinked power circuitry and more digital power phases): under this respect, I don't know significantly better mobo than quoted ASRock at comparable price (the ASUS Gryphon may turn to be better but the price difference makes this possibility rather questionable).

But if you want to achieve the highest stable overclock (4.4GHz and more), more probably that not you can't think to do that at a (relatively) quiet level, just at a moderately noise level (on load): and so a more performing but noisier heatsink may come in handy (like, maybe, a dual radiator NZXT Kraken 61, recently reviewed by SPCR), as well as a different enclosure (something like a NZXT Source 340 would be more versed towards liquid cooling, in case, without excessive measures, but there are many).

Great thanks for the information, this confirms what I was hoping for: Not aiming at anything above 4.4GHz and will be very happy indeed if I can get a stable 4.3GHz OC without adding significantly more noise to the system; after all this will be 1GHz above the i5 4590: 30% higher clock rate at 26% price increase on the CPU + mobo combo should make this combo the best value config .

Will read the articles as recommended!

BTW, found this 1.35V CL9 RAM http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00A14ZT8I/?tag=pcp0f-21: Would that be better than the 1.5V RAM I was planning on using originally?

Thanks,
Martin

[quest_for_silence]

BTW, found this 1.35V CL9 RAM http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00A14ZT8I/?tag=pcp0f-21: Would that be better than the 1.5V RAM I was planning on using originally?

IMO/IME, absolutely yes.

[quest_for_silence]

Not aiming at anything above 4.4GHz and will be very happy indeed if I can get a stable 4.3GHz OC without adding significantly more noise to the system

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2 ... ell-heat/1

[mcm77]

Not aiming at anything above 4.4GHz and will be very happy indeed if I can get a stable 4.3GHz OC without adding significantly more noise to the system

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2 ... ell-heat/1

This article is a bit out-dated now, isn't it? According to what I read in the two articles you pointed yesterday, the 4690K does run cooler than than 4670K:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8227/devi ... i5-4690k/6:

... By adjusting the thermal interface material, Intel hopes to have a CPU that is ~10C cooler than the original Haswell CPUs at the same frequency and voltage. This latter part is directly observable, and even when overclocked, the ~10C temperature difference is very much visible.

I was also impressed to read that Anandtech actually reduced temps and power consumption (by undervolting) while increasing the clock to 4.1GHz on their 4690K sample: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8227/5 ... _575px.png

Have they been extremely lucky, or simply got a specially selected sample from Intel?

[boost]

However, I am getting tempted on the idea of overclocking: Spent time reading on this, but as a complete OC n00b, some advice on how to get things right will be very appreciated: Is it enough to just get i5 4690K + AsRock Z97M Pro4 (for ~£52 more) in my build? Do I need higher clock RAM, different CPU cooling, beefier PSU, more case fans, etc?

My OC target will be 4 - 4.4GHz, not wanting to push power consumption + cooling noise to a significantly more audible level (at 3.5m distance); stable OC without increasing the voltage will be the main goal.

Any help is very welcome!

Thanks,
Martin

The right chipset (Z97) and CPU (K suffix) are all you need.
My biggest gripe with overclocking and noise is a nervous fan control. An overclocked CPU's temperature rises quicker above certain thresholds that are hard-coded into the mainboard's fan control. The temperature is not high for long, when the fan spins up the temperature drops and the fans spin down. These high usage scenarios usually last only a couple of seconds in the real world, loading screens, etc. , but the fan quickly spinning up and almost as quickly spinning down annoys me. If you add a second fan the baseline noise is very slightly higher, but the spin up and spin down is not that nervous.
I would recommend you add a second fan to your CPU cooler, if you want to overclock.

Without increasing voltage I guess you can reach 4.2GHz, for 4.4GHz you'll need a slight increase in voltage.

SOME games benefit from higher clocked ram, Thief is one example. Generally ram speed has very little effect on FPS.

This article is a bit out-dated now, isn't it? According to what I read in the two articles you pointed yesterday, the 4690K does run cooler than than 4670K:

For the Haswell refresh K-CPUs -and only K-CPUs- Intel improved the thermal paste and/or reduced the amount between the CPU and the heat spreader. As a result 4690K and 4790K run ~10° cooler than 4670K/4770K.

[mcm77]

The right chipset (Z97) and CPU (K suffix) are all you need.
My biggest gripe with overclocking and noise is a nervous fan control. An overclocked CPU's temperature rises quicker above certain thresholds that are hard-coded into the mainboard's fan control. The temperature is not high for long, when the fan spins up the temperature drops and the fans spin down. These high usage scenarios usually last only a couple of seconds in the real world, loading screens, etc. , but the fan quickly spinning up and almost as quickly spinning down annoys me. If you add a second fan the baseline noise is very slightly higher, but the spin up and spin down is not that nervous.
I would recommend you add a second fan to your CPU cooler, if you want to overclock.

Without increasing voltage I guess you can reach 4.2GHz, for 4.4GHz you'll need a slight increase in voltage.

Great, thanks, this is useful to know: Will check how I can do that with the heatsink I selected above, or consider switching to another heatsink that has two fans out of the box.

[boost]

Great, thanks, this is useful to know: Will check how I can do that with the heatsink I selected above, or consider switching to another heatsink that has two fans out of the box.

Buy a Scythe Glidestream 120mm PWM and use zip-ties.

[mcm77]

Buy a Scythe Glidestream 120mm PWM and use zip-ties.

Thanks, sounds like a plan .

[quest_for_silence]

Buy a Scythe Glidestream 120mm PWM and use zip-ties.

Thanks, sounds like a plan .

In case, order it directly from Scythe EU: I bought mine that way, paying just 6.8 euros plus shipping (including the necessary pair of fan clips, about almost a year ago).

[mcm77]

In case, order it directly from Scythe EU: I bought mine that way, paying just 6.8 euros plus shipping (including the necessary pair of fan clips, about almost a year ago).

I would like to do that, but can't find a link to buy on http://www.scythe-eu.com. Do you have a link you can share? In the UK they go for around 10 GBP, which about 12 EUR...

[quest_for_silence]

In case, order it directly from Scythe EU: I bought mine that way, paying just 6.8 euros plus shipping (including the necessary pair of fan clips, about almost a year ago).

I would like to do that, but can't find a link to buy on http://www.scythe-eu.com. Do you have a link you can share? In the UK they go for around 10 GBP, which about 12 EUR...

The main issue wasn't money, but it was that here in Italy the retail Glidestream PWM fan is actually slightly different from the Kotetsu stock one (and I guess it's the same there in UK).

Given that, I just wrote them these words:

Dear Sirs,

I'd like to outfit my new Kotetsu (SCKTT-1000) with a second pair of fan clips, along with a second SY1225HB12SM-P fan: is it possible to buy those spares from you?

using their Support Request Form at: http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/support/request.html (but maybe you can also use their general Contact Form).

Mr. Dillmann of Scythe EU answered me within 24hrs, then we made the relevant arrangements, and eventually I paid through PayPal around 10-11 euros all inclusive: I received the correct fan and the relevant clips from Germany within five working days since payment.

Obviously I can't confirm that several months later prices are still the same but, as I said, it wasn't my main concern: I just wanted to purchase the right fan.

[mcm77]

OK, great, thanks for the info, will consider going that route. Or alternatively will just buy this http://www.scan.co.uk/products/noctua-n ... compatible and spare myself the hassle...

[quest_for_silence]

this http://www.scan.co.uk/products/noctua-n ... compatible and spare myself the hassle...

Take note that cooler doesn't sport PWM fans.

Anyway: a) there's no hassle at all ordering from Scythe, and their EU service is very kind and helpful; b) in my opinion you don't even need a second fan to run quietly a mildly oc'ed Haswell.

[boost]

this http://www.scan.co.uk/products/noctua-n ... compatible and spare myself the hassle...

Take note that cooler doesn't sport PWM fans.

Anyway: a) there's no hassle at all ordering from Scythe, and their EU service is very kind and helpful; b) in my opinion you don't even need a second fan to run quietly a mildly oc'ed Haswell.

In my experience, dealing with Scythe support is not a hassle. They respond quickly, the responses are helpful and the prices are very reasonable.
The Noctua NH-D15 is Noctua's first cooler with two PWM fans. It's the only cooler that might be a little better than what you selected. It's very powerful, but very pricey.
Get the Scythe cooler, and IF you feel about the fan speeds like I do, you can later buy the second fan and install it quickly. You don't need the second fan, I just like having two for my oc'ed CPU.