Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

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jebus_beler
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Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:51 pm

I've speced out a small form-factor, light portable PC that is very powerful yet small/light enough to put in a suitecase. Noise was not my number one priority but at this size it will probably often be _on_ the desk so I'd like it to be as quiet as possible. The choice of case is unfortunately dictated by size/weight considerations (though there is one alternative) but I'm trying to settle on a silent+light PSU/heatsink combo. Any advice (also on any other components)? I'd like to pull the trigger on this in the next day or two...

Would also appreciate any advice on the Lian Li vs the Sharkoon case.

Code: Select all

Primary choice (tentative)
=============================================================
Component                           Weight (kg)     Cost Eur 
=============================================================
Sharkoon CA-I                       1.5             52       
Intel Core i7 4790K - 4 GHz         0.32            300
Scythe Big Shuriken 2 Rev B			    0.41			      40
GF GV-N970IXOC-4GD                  0.8             335      
Z97E-ITX/ac                         0.53            142      
Crucial 2x8 gb                      0.09            146      
    (BLS2CP8G3D1609DS1S00CEU)
Samsung/Seagate                     0.109           58
(ST1000LM024 Momentus Spinpoint M8)
Silverstone SST-ST45SF-G PSU		    1.4				      106
-------------------------------------------------------------
                                    5.159           1179     
                                                             
Alternatives:

Lian Li Mini-ITX Cube PC-Q03B       1.6             
Z97M-ITX/AC                         0.53            124      
WD green 2 tb                       0.73            71       
GIGABYTE Z97N-WIFI                  0.916           110
MSI Z97I AC Intel LGA1150 Z97       0.599           116
MSI Z97I Gaming AC                  0.5             144
Intel Core i7 4770K - 3.5 GHz       0.2             300      
Scythe SCSK-1100					0.35			34
Corsair PSU CS450M                  2.2             71       

Much thanks!

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by MikeC » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:04 pm

Seeing how they're both cubes & the smallest dimension is 22.5cm for the Sharkoon & 25cm for the Lianli, you must lug around a pretty big suitcase! You'll have to explain what kind of portability you're talking about. For LAN gaming, I suppose, carried in a dufflebag?

On the desktop, the aluminum skin isn't going to block any noise to speak of, so the Sharkoon looks like the better bet -- at least with its vents, you'll have much needed airflow in there, your gear will run cooler & your fans won't have to spin up as much & therefore be quieter.

The Corsair -- do you know that it's quiet? If you don't, choose a Seasonic G550 instead. About the same price, iirc. We know it's quiet up to >200W. The Silverstone SST-ST45SF-G is OK but once its fan spins up, it will be noisier than most quiet 120mm fan PSUs... and after the fan spins up, it doesn't turn off until you leave it idling for quite a while.

A 2.5" drive is a better option than a 3.5" drive in an aluminum case that sits close to you -- esp if you can suspend it. The higher moving mass of the 3.5" drives makes their vibrations considerably more audible in an aluminum case when you have to hard mount. The 7200rpm 2.5" drives are a touch quicker.

jebus_beler
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:46 am

So what I mean by portable is that I can take it with me when I travel as I often spend a few weeks a year in different countries and that's when I have the most time to do some of this numerical work (so its annoying to be restricted to a laptop). I checked and my suitecase (a standard dufflebag like affair) can take the 26 cm height of the Sharkoon lying down with several cm's so I don't think that's a problem.

I saw in some users feedback that although the Sharkoon can take full ATX PSUs it looks like the block the CPU fan, etc.. so an SFF is a much better option. From those PSUs the Silverstone seemed like one of the better ones but I'd love to hear about a more silent one (I hate 80 mm fans but I don't see a way to avoid it here). I've managed a super-quiet (but much less powerful) build in a Lian Li Q08B (with a BeQuiet PSU) and was hoping to reuse some of that experience but the constraints in this case are very different. If anyone has any advice around this issue PSU-wise it would be great. Maybe I could squeeze in an ATX but I'm just worried that will cause more problems than it will solve.

I'm pretty sure I'm getting a 2.5" drive and will probably go for 5400 rpms since I don't need very good I/O.

Any advice about the CPU cooler? I'm actually worried the big Shuriken might block the ram or GPU.

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:03 am

The first time you can't fit this bag as carryon and it has to go in the bowels of the plane, your PC could be dead/BSOD at the other end of the flight from baggage handling. Interesting concept, not sure it's feasible without a lot of extra work - like having insertable/removable pieces of foam/cardboard/whatever to stabilize the internal components during travel.

You'd be better off with a NUC form factor...something you can stick into a briefcase.

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by xan_user » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:07 am

I dont see why you would need such a large case...
coolermaster elite 110. 11.1" x 8.2" x 10.3"
or if you go with a 2.5 drive and maybe a little lower TDP chip you could go real small and use an m350. 7.5" x 8.5" x 2.50"
or go tiny and just get a NUC. 4.6" x 4.4" x 1.5"
(why not a laptop?)

jebus_beler
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:36 am

If you look at a picture of the internals of this case on the Sharkoon website then I think you'll see there isn't much empty space on the inside when its got a gpu and a PSU in their. I've built using a larger mini ITX case with no GPU and things were very cramped. Maybe putting some non-static foam or something would be good during traveling anyway -- can anyone recommend a material that won't generate static but will proctect the components?

In terms of getting something smaller the title sort of explains it...I need something powerful. I have a laptop but I want to use this thing for number crunching for days on end. I've considered amazon remote instances, etc... but I think this is much more economical. So I need a high end GPU and CPU and I think this is pretty much the smallest form factor that will accomodate those (though please tell me otherwise).

Does anyone have a recommendation one way or another about the cpu cooler?

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:39 am

I apologize in advance for trying to steer you in a different direction...have you considered using your laptop as a remote terminal and having the powerful PC back home? If you considered Amazon cloud, then you have internet access.

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by xan_user » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:07 am

yeah, sorry i missed the GPU in your parts list.

id be very wary of frequent traveling with any tower heatsink. so my vote is a low profile cooler in the coolermaster elite 110

jebus_beler
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:04 pm

CA_Steve wrote:I apologize in advance for trying to steer you in a different direction...have you considered using your laptop as a remote terminal and having the powerful PC back home? If you considered Amazon cloud, then you have internet access.
No problem but yeah I did consider it. Unfortunately we often have power outages and internet outages (often means once every few months) and if it happens when I'm away for two weeks then I lose access to the machine. I could always then rent an amazon instance but this seems like a better option. Some part of me also likes taking up the mac pro gauntlett and coming up with a more cost effective alternative. I should also mention that even when I'm not traveling, having a 2nd PC to run jobs on is useful for me so its not just gonna be idling. But the traveling requirement is what's pushing the form factor.

jebus_beler
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:06 pm

xan_user wrote:yeah, sorry i missed the GPU in your parts list.

id be very wary of frequent traveling with any tower heatsink. so my vote is a low profile cooler in the coolermaster elite 110
Coolermaster elite is a nice form factor but weights 1kg more than the sharkoon. The sharkoon supports a 10 cm cooler and I agree I want something low profile (also for better air flow). Could you recommend anything. The scythe shuriken is 6 cm I think but its also very wide.

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by xan_user » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:15 pm

jebus_beler wrote:
xan_user wrote:yeah, sorry i missed the GPU in your parts list.

id be very wary of frequent traveling with any tower heatsink. so my vote is a low profile cooler in the coolermaster elite 110
Coolermaster elite is a nice form factor but weights 1kg more than the sharkoon. The sharkoon supports a 10 cm cooler and I agree I want something low profile (also for better air flow). Could you recommend anything. The scythe shuriken is 6 cm I think but its also very wide.
im not trying to talk you out of the shakoon, its a nice looking case, just trying to explore the smaller options...


http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_Heatsinks scroll down to small coolers. not all of them will fit. I have the big shuriken 2, and it will fit in that case. (not that its the best on the list, just the only one i personally have)

jebus_beler
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:30 am

Thanks for the link. It looks like the scythe shuriken will possibly block the discrete GPU. OTOH the other scythe Kozuti has an 80 mm fan :-(

Any idea if there's a less noisy (i.e. 120mm) fan on a heat sink that won't block the discrete GPU on a mini-ITX board?

The Samurai ZZ might be a reasonable contender but I'm worried that its a bit tall (94mm) while the Sharkoon supports a 10.5cm cooler this might cram it against the PSU and make it less effective. Second the samarai's strange shape might be more of an issue when traveling with the case since it seems less stable than a smaller, less top-heavy heat sink (??).

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by ekerazha » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:22 am

Are you building a workstation without a Xeon CPU and ECC memory?

I'm going to build a workstation too, but I need ECC memory and I couldn't find any Mini-ITX/Micro-ATX workstation motherboard with Xeon and ECC memory support :) So I'll use a full ATX motherboard inside a Silverstone Fortress FT05 case which is pretty compact for a full ATX case.

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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by jebus_beler » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:48 am

Yes, this is for my own personal use and my priority is "portability" in the sense that I want to be able to lug this thing to other countries when I travel for a few weeks at a time (otherwise I'm stuck on a laptop). I'm actually curious why you think a Xeon or ECC memory is so essential. Maybe for mission critical stuff but when it comes to doing numerics on your desk they seem to be a very poor choise price/performance wise (likewise workstation class GPUs). In any case my budget is ~1k euros.

ekerazha
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Re: Advice building Mac Pro like small FF workstation

Post by ekerazha » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:04 am

I need ECC memory because I process financial data.

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