Silent DAW, on the right track?

[Bryan]

After lots of research I think I'm just about ready for Cyber Monday to build my first PC for music production. My priority is silent performance where I can load lots of samples quickly into RAM - my current laptop gpu fan is so noisy I can't even use my monitors! So relative silence is huge for me after years of frustration. I've done the best I could to research and pick components to meet my needs - would you critique my choices and make any suggestions?


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790S 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($287.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($61.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($89.34 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($140.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($98.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($68.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series Fanless 460W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit) ($90.26 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($34.00 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1274.48


I want i7 to take advantage of the hyperthreading in my digital audio workstation (Ableton Live), but I'm not sure about the RAM. Should I be concerned about getting the CAS count down to 9 from a 10 currently?

My plans for the hard drives are the OS on the 256 SSD, samples loaded from the 512 SSD, and recording and all other computer storage to the 2 TB HDD. No GPU to minimize fan noise. Let me know how I'm doing so far, thanks!

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.

Here's some quick feedback.
- there's a couple of DAW threads in the forum that are probably worth checking out.
- R4 is a fine case (see my signature). You'll want to replace the fans. Or, check out the new R5 (and it's review here).
- Scythe Kotetsu outperforms the Noctua and has a quieter fan.
- go with the stock i7. Have the performance in reserve.
- step away from the tall heatspreader RAM. No benefit. Take a look at G.Skill Ares or other std/lower profile RAM. Lower CAS: <shrug> Probably more benefit to getting 1833 over 1600. Then little or none beyond that speed. I wouldn't sweat the timings.
- Samsung 840 Evo is also nice. I prefer it for the OS drive for the Samsung Magician toolkit / ability to set up a RAM cache.
- PSU: sure. Your stressed load power is under 130W if you get the std i7.

[Bryan]

Thank you for the feedback Steve. Your posts on the previous DAW threads were a big help in getting me this far!

From reading more I really like the suggestions. Definitely switching to low profile G.Ares RAM and the Samsung 250 SSD for the OS.

New questions -

I see now that the Kotetsu is considered the gold standard, but somewhat hard to track down. It's my first choice now, but if I have to go with the NH-U12S due to availability does the Noctua's 1200 rpm low noise adapter make for a more favorable comparison?

In comparing the stock i7-4790 and the i7-4790s, the only differences I find are higher wattage and clock speed on stock (84W vs 64W and 3.6 GHz vs 3.2 GHz). Is your suggestion that the higher wattage on stock will have a negligible impact on system noise, and that therefore I should get the higher performance with 3.6 GHz?

It's going to be tough to pass up the newegg Black Friday discount of $70 for the R4 case, although I need to keep reading more on the R5. I haven't researched case fans yet - any quick and easy recommendations? 2x Antec TrueQuiet 140mm case fans?

Thanks

[CA_Steve]

Amazon Marketplace merchants have the Kotetsu.

The R4 is nice and really, your heat load is low. Go for it. Get 3 Antec True Quiet 140 fans. At 500rpm they are very quiet. If you opt to use Asus' Fan Xpert, you can slow them down more if needed. But, if like the stock speed, probably better off not using the added s/w to keep DPC latency down.

i7 S vs stock. If your apps load the stock part at the same level as the S part, the power used is the same. If it loads it heavier than the S, then the freq and voltage, and hence power go up. You won't notice a noise level difference with the Kotetsu and your tasks will finish faster if they need the extra oomph.

[Bryan]

I have everything ordered and am waiting for the last components to arrive in the mail!

For the replacement fans would your suggestion be to place two in the front and one in the rear? I'm also trying to think through optimal placement for the hard drives - should I remove the R4's middle carriage for increased airflow and place 1xHDD and 2xSSD in the remaining 3 bottom slots? I've seen mention of mounting the SSDs behind the motherboard, not sure if there are any +/- with noise or issues with cable management.

I also saw a video of someone installing the Kotetsu with the airflow pointed upwards rather than towards the back fan, seemed strange to me but maybe there is a purpose? The installation guide that comes with it diagrams the airflow pointed towards the rear.

[Bryan]

I'm going to include my final parts list in case it is helpful for anyone who discovers this thread in the future -

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($296.97 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($40.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Asus H97-PLUS ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($101.99 @ Directron)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($154.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($114.00 @ B&H)
Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($199.69 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($101.46 @ OutletPC)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series Fanless 460W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.88 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit) ($90.26 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($38.83 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($9.57 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($9.57 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($9.57 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1391.73

[CA_Steve]

For the replacement fans would your suggestion be to place two in the front and one in the rear?

Yep. Three options for their control:
- just use the R4's fan controller at low (~5V).
- use the Asus UEFI for a low noise profile.
- use Asus Fan Xpert s/w if neither of those are quiet enough for you.

I'm also trying to think through optimal placement for the hard drives - should I remove the R4's middle carriage for increased airflow and place 1xHDD and 2xSSD in the remaining 3 bottom slots? I've seen mention of mounting the SSDs behind the motherboard, not sure if there are any +/- with noise or issues with cable management.

Remove the middle cage. Then, the easiest solution is to mount the 3 drives in the lower cage. If you get vibration noise from the Seagate, then you may want to have some fun suspending the drive rather than hard mounting it. There's an R4 build thread here somewhere with a how to. If you want even more airflow...and you really don't need it w/o a video card, you could remove the bottom cage, mount the SSDs behind the mobo and suspend the HDD. SSDs weigh nothing, you could attach them with 1 screw.

I also saw a video of someone installing the Kotetsu with the airflow pointed upwards rather than towards the back fan, seemed strange to me but maybe there is a purpose?

No purpose that I can see.

[Bryan]

I put together my build today. I sill can hear the case fans but very quietly. I'll have to explore ways to even further minimize mechanical vibration with my wooden desk. It's so nice to be able to use my studio monitors again! Such a difference from the intrusive noise directly in front of me from my laptop. In assembly I had a brief snafu until I realized that the TrueQuiet fans need to be powered Molex>PSU (unlike the included R4 fans which only have 3 pin connectors), but other than that really smooth sailing.

I'll upload a front and back picture. Thank you so much Steve, I can't say enough. Your input has been incredibly valuable!

[Abula]

I put together my build today. I sill can hear the case fans but very quietly.

Have you triend connecting the Antec True Quiet 140s to the motherboard headers CHA_FAN 1,2 and 3 and using FANXPERT2? it should drop the fans to 200rpms on idle, which should be inaudible.

[CA_Steve]

Congrats on your build. Glad I could help.

mechanical vibration of the desk: Did you mean the R4 is on the desk and is coupling noise to it? Easiest solution is put it on the floor

[gwilikers]

This build is so similar to what I've been thinking of. Would you build the same, now that you've been running it for a bit?

I'm hoping to build a mid-priced, powerful, quiet but no frills DAW for running Reaper with lots of audio and vst tracks. This is what I've come up with (thanks to advice in forums like this one!). I feel least sure about the power supply; i want a quiet one but with a some extra power for any new add ons. It has taken me days to come up with this list... a bit of a challenge.

Any comments welcome My brother, who I may be building this for, has suggested getting a mini-mac instead.

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.95 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($106.11 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Asus Z97-A ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($154.99 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($174.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.75 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($58.75 @ Vuugo)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($154.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($20.05 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($98.98 @ DirectCanada)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Antec TRUEQUIET 140 32.4 CFM 140mm Fan ($16.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1381.40 (Canadian)
PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/3vvB7P

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.


CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 4 - this or the Kotetsu. Similar performance by the latter for cheaper price and less weight.

Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB, 2 x Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM. The 7200rpm drives will be the noisiest part of the system. I'd go with a large enough SSD to use for OS/Apps/scratch disk and a single larger 5400 rpm drive for long term storage. Load whatever VSTs need to be loaded and let the HDD spin down for the session. Also, there's a significant drop off in write speeds in the 840 EVO when you drop below the 240GB capacity.

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 + 3 Antec True Quiets. Obviously, I like this (see my signature). Take a look at the Fractal R5 review. The new fans are much quieter (don't need replacement) and the case has better airflow.

Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80+ Platinum. Your system's stressed load is in the 130W range. Actual use is probably around 100W. So, 660W is a tad overkill..even with add-ons...a high power Nvidia gfx card is only 160W TDP. You could easily drop to the 400 or 460W versions. There's also the Corsair RM series. Semi-passive designs, so no rotating fan at the expected load even with the RM450.

Or, you could go with a Mac Mini. The i7 version with 256GB Samsung PCIe SSD, 16GB RAm, and an external ODD runs $1478 USD. You absolutely don't want the fusion drive stuff, so you'd need the SSD option and then add an external 5400rpm drive. The big downside is the 2014 model doesn't have a 4 core/8-thread CPU available. Just the dual core/4 thread mobile i7 variants. So, a big hit in horsepower.

[MPZ]

Hi,

I just made an account- this website has been instrumental in my design of my own quiet Daw. I was just wondering what you did (if anything) to get your machine even quieter. I ask because I am working on my own DAW design, on a bit smaller scale (it's focused on Native Instruments Reaktor and synth/effects design)- which I am about to make my own thread for. Also I was wondering whether I should plunk down the extra dough for a samsung evo over the 256mb Crucial M550 I have in my build. How do you guys like yours?

Thanks,
MPZ