i7-4790K build, Underclocked and undervolted

[Placid]

I am working on a new build. I came from a very low power, very low heat rig in an Antec Solo. Very quiet, but it was slow and outdated. With current hardware being more efficient, it's time to move up in performance.

The intended use is graphic design, some gaming, some video editing, and some 3D rendering. Not having upgraded for so long, I allow plenty of leeway in the budget, so price is not that much of a factor, though I still kept the total well below the limit. Hardware nowadays tend to have a longer useful lifespan before obsolescence, so I plan to use it for 5+ years.


CPU: Intel Haswell i7-4790K (underclocked and undervolted)
Devil's Canyon has better TIM; runs cooler clock for clock compared to non K.

CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D15 or Scythe Ninja 4
Every degree helps.

Motherboard: ASUS Z97 Pro WiFi USB 3.1
Has what I need.

Memory: 16GB Crucial Ballistix Tactical DDR3 1.35V RAM
Will buy the other 16GB later when DDR3 prices drop as DDR4 become mainstream.

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, 1 HDD (undecided on which model)
Will expand to another SSD when prices drop, and another HDD as it becomes filled. Not a fan of WD Greens; always had problems.

Video: MSI NVIDIA Geforce GTX 970 Gaming 100 ME or 980 4G Gaming
Better acoustics and cooling than ASUS Strix. Currently being discussed in another thread.

PSU: Seasonic G Series 550W
Prefer Platinum series but coil whine is a problem.

Monitor: Dell Ultrasharp U2413
1920 x 1200 entry level professional IPS with 6ms overdrive for decent gaming.

Optical Drive: ASUS DVD burner
I've read reviews that said the ASUS DVD burners were among the most quiet, but not very good burn quality.

Sound Card: Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum HD
Discontinued and hard to find, but was the last to support hardware EAX. The new Z series has poor software EAX, and terrible MIDI. If I can't find it, may have to settle for a ZXR.

Case: Antec P183 V3, Fractal Design Define R5, Corsair Obsidian 550D
Prefer a midtower with door to close it when idle and open on load for ventilation. Will probably start a separate thread for the case when components are finalized.


My main concern is heat, that's why I didn't splurge on an X99 mobo, Haswell-E, or GTX 980 Ti which draws a ton of power. It will not be as quiet as my last rig, although I still want to keep temps and noise down at low to medium loads. Some noise at full load is expected, but would still like to keep temps manageable. Any advice on refining this build? Comments on other non heat/noise related parts also appreciated.

[CA_Steve]

Looks fine as is. Some possible tweaks:
- CPU cooler: You could drop down to a Scythe Kotetsu unless you plan to overclock/overvolt.
- sound card: Creative still makes me shudder. If you end up with s/w based EAX, consider the Asus Xonar cards.
- PSU: be quiet! Straight Power E10 500CM would be a good alternative.
- Case: R5 would be my choice with the 183 second.

Skylake intro's in August. Figure the bug fixes, UEFI and driver updates will settle down by November if you can wait.

[Quinnbeast]

Nothing much to add really, looks like a more recent version of my own setup.

If you're undervolting/clocking then I can't see the i7 giving you any issues with heat, especially if you're looking at coupling it with a premium cooler. I'm quite drawn to the idea of the NH-C14 for a bit of extra motherboard airflow, but that's more of personal thing rather than a practical one.

Just for info, I use a BeQuiet 550W (Dark Power) PSU myself and I've yet to experience any coil whine. Excellent kit. They may be easier to get hold of here though (UK), not sure how the US market is.

For some reason, I'm less drawn to the P183 as an option, but only because I can imagine that the compartmentalised layout might annoy me as and when I'm tinkering with the setup (i.e. fairly frequently). Just a gut feeling, no real world experience with it. Still a fine-looking case.

Also, Hardware EAX support? I increasingly have the impression that this is a legacy technology (rightly or wrongly). Out of interest, what's your thinking behind that particular soundcard choice in terms of EAX? Support for older games? I use an an older Xonar D1 & can't fault it.

Looks like a solid build though.

[Placid]

- sound card: Creative still makes me shudder. If you end up with s/w based EAX, consider the Asus Xonar cards.
- PSU: be quiet! Straight Power E10 500CM would be a good alternative.

Skylake intro's in August. Figure the bug fixes, UEFI and driver updates will settle down by November if you can wait.

I would have moved away from Creative if the Asus Xonar's EAX emulation wasn't worse than the SB Z's. I'm stuck with them for this build.

Thanks for the recommendation on the be quiet. I looked into it, and they don't seem have the prevalent coil whine issues even though some of their models are made by Seasonic. Will be a good fall-back if the Seasonic turns out to be bust.

I've been waiting for Skylake, only to see it delayed. I should pull the trigger before I am tempted to wait for Cannonlake too.

[Placid]

I'm quite drawn to the idea of the NH-C14 for a bit of extra motherboard airflow, but that's more of personal thing rather than a practical one.

I had that preference as well; all of my CPU coolers have been the down-blowing type until now, when I finally need the performance of a tower cooler. The NH-D15 mounts the fan low enough to move air over the motherboard too.

With low profile RAM, that looks like a very desirable setup for me. I could probably do that with the Scythes although the fins towards the top will be wasted with the fan lowered.

Just for info, I use a BeQuiet 550W (Dark Power) PSU myself and I've yet to experience any coil whine. Excellent kit. They may be easier to get hold of here though (UK), not sure how the US market is.

be quiet is not readily available here. I was looking for the Dark Power 550, and it was not available. Newegg only has a few other models in stock.

Also, Hardware EAX support? I increasingly have the impression that this is a legacy technology (rightly or wrongly). Out of interest, what's your thinking behind that particular soundcard choice in terms of EAX? Support for older games? I use an an older Xonar D1 & can't fault it.

It's for older games that supported it. Unfortunately, ASUS Xonars fare even worse with soft EAX, otherwise, I would have gladly went for ASUS.

[Placid]

Thanks for the replies. I'm am a little closer to finalizing the build and have already ordered some parts. The case is the next thing to consider. When I come back tomorrow, I'll continue in this thread so as not to break the flow.

[Placid]

I am reevaluating the CPU heatsink, and wondering from my usage if the DH-15 will perform any better than the Ninja 4 or the smaller Kotetsu.

There are no plans to overclock throughout the life of the system. A few years down the line, when extra speed is needed to keep up, I will return it to stock speeds. With price not being an issue, the DH-15 was chosen for every last degree of performance, but published reviews always involve CPUs with TDPs greater than Haswells, so it's harder to compare performance in the lower watts. If it doesn't perform any better at all, a lighter heatsink hanging off the motherboard is preferable.

[CA_Steve]

I am reevaluating the CPU heatsink, and wondering from my usage if the DH-15 will perform any better than the Ninja 4 or the smaller Kotetsu.

Probably not. I still push the Kotetsu for std clocked i7's. Considering that you are planning to underclock and undervolt, the DH-15 is overkill.

[Placid]

Spent some time double checking the thermal performance of the i7-4790K. Temps seem low enough that a big hunk of metal isn't necessary, although TechPowerUp showed that it can reach up to 74º C on load even at stock speed, and that was with water cooling. Even though that was the result of an artificial benchmark, would the Kotetsu handle such an excursion?

[Vicotnik]

Yes, with a TDP of 88W it will be nothing the Kotetsu can't handle.

Water cooling shines at much higher levels of heat. At relatively low loads stuff like a very good mounting mechanism matters a lot. I'd bet the water temp is nowhere near 74C.

[CA_Steve]

For the Scythe review, SPCR's larger heatsink test platform uses a 130W i7-965. This is ~50% higher than the Haswell i7's TDP. It's offset by die size (~50% bigger) and it has a better thermal interface material...but it'll provide close to similar result.

I wouldn't sweat it.

[QUIET!]

Why under clock?

Intel already does a pretty good job of throttling when not under load.

Do you think you are going to see lower noise levels? I think that is easier said than done.

With Skylake coming in a week, I would wait. You can either leap to Skylake or wait for the 4970k price to drop when everyone wants a 6700k.

Also, I don't think DDR3 will drop in price much. I saw a 32 gig DDR4 set for $185 I think and the cheapest DDR3 was $150 so the premium is about $35 and that is before a mainstream DDR4 platform has been released. DDR 4 will come down but its not going to replace DDR3 overnight and cause a fire sale.

I'm biased because I'm waiting for Skylake (and R9 Fury Nano) but those are the reasons why I'm waiting.

[quest_for_silence]

wait for the 4970k price to drop when everyone wants a 6700k.

It won't happen.

[Placid]

Why under clock?

At stock speed while on load, the i7-4790K's temps has the biggest jump and also the hottest in the Haswell line. That takes a lot of cooling power. Noisy cooling power. It's not so much the underclock. The key is to undervolt, which makes the most difference in temps. I know it's not going to be like my last build which was quiet on idle and quiet on load. For the new build, this should keep it from getting too noisy on load.

With Skylake coming in a week, I would wait.

I don't have enough time to wait for the bugs to get ironed out. Intel's pricing policy is well known, so I'm not holding my breath for that either. I'm already committed. The i7-4790K is sitting right next to me.

[QUIET!]

Here is the easy way to work out the bugs:

Buy CPU day one, wait to see which motherboards need a Bios flash, then buy something else.

After doing that, the only thing that might cause trouble is the sound card.

[Placid]

Moving on to the case. I basically look for P180-type quiet cases. As mentioned in the first post, I like to have a door to keep closed during idle and opened on load. My choices are down to the remaining two:

Antec P183 V3:
This case comes very close to my desired size. It has solid build quality, multiple external drive bays, a door that opens 270°, looks awesome, and the front bezel behind the door is completely open instead of solid bay covers. When it was released, I liked it so much that it was originally chosen to be next case at the time. Today, its aging P180 design and airflow is no longer competive, making me rethink my original decision. Would shoving a 120mm fan into the upper 5.25 bays help with airflow?

Fractal Design Define R5:
Has the most airflow potential with its flexible configuration and bottom ventilation. Still, this case have some quibbles that make it not as desirable: too many fan cutouts and fully removable cages weakens the structure. A limited door swing and being an inch wider, it can't go under my desk due to limited leg room. It'll have to sit above my desk where it's closer to my ear. If the airflow of the R5 is far superior to the Antec P183, then I would settle for this one.

Cases with more open airflow:
Just to see if I'm missing out on anything, I also explored some open-grilled cases as more open airflow is becoming a viable alternative to silent cases. All my cases have always been closed at the front, so I'm not too keen on having an open noise path. One possible candidate from this class is the Corsair Carbide 500R, which is a lot like the 550D or R5 sans door and open mesh. Still prefer the P183 and R5 over this one though.

[Placid]

Most of the parts have rolled in, with a few more in transit. Finally got to test the Seasonic G Series 550W by jumpering the connector. There's some high pitched coil whine even before anything is connected. Even after power is cut to the PSU, it continues to whine for a minute. I'll see if that changes as I put the system together. Not looking good though. The build is starting off on the wrong foot. I may eventually have to deal with the headache of RMA while the new rig sits here with no PSU.

[quest_for_silence]

I may eventually have to deal with the headache of RMA while the new rig sits here with no PSU.

Don't waste your buld time: RMA it immediately.

[Placid]

After having worked on the R5 for a week, here are some initial impressions.

I find the build quality to be mediocre. Unlike the Solo, you don't want to sit on the R5. Tap the case and it rattles due to the numerous modular parts. Placing an external optical drive at the top of the case amplified the annoying vibrations that I had to promptly move it elsewhere. There was no way to soft-mount the front fans. One of the fan's ticking was amplified to a level where it becomes audible. The rubber grommets for the HDD trays are quite anemic in comparison to Antec's thicker silicon grommets found in the P183 and Solo cases. I swapped them with Antec's as they do a better job. Despite having a front filter, there are many large open areas around the front, bypassing the filter. I can't figure out a way to suspend an HDD in the lower drive cage. The clearance is so tight that a suspended HDD would still be in contact with the cage.

That said, I'm pretty impressed with the cooling and noise level. I had expected noise on load, something akin to an extremely hot and noisy rig that a friend of mine built without any regard to acoustics. Nope. Even during a stress test, temperatures didn't get high enough for the fans to reach full speed, and this is during the summer.