Help with Fractal Design Node 304 quiet gaming build

[MrYellow]

Hello,

struggling with some hardware availability issues here.

I'm going to be building a gaming version of Node 304.
It's going to be equipped either with GTX 970 or 980.
Intel Core i5 4690K for now. No decent mobo choices for the new platform + a higher price tag on newer platform components that is not really needed.
ASUS Z97I-PLUS as it's the only one available. o.O
1 SSD and 2 HDDs most likely, but I want to solve the issue with having drive bays available for 4 HDDs with the cooler. Just in case I reconfigure this build for a NAS somewhere in the future by swapping out components.

Need your help in the following:
1) Cooler choice. I plan on keeping hard drive bays for 4 hdds. I typically go with "Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo" because I had great experience with them, but I've read somewhere that it's not going to be compatible with Node 304. :/

What are my alternatives except the ones mentioned in this article: "Moving to the interior, we recommend utilizing a thin tower heatsink like the Scythe Ashura, Phanteks PH-TC12DX, Noctua NH-U12S/U14S, or SilverStone Argon series"

The only one I have available for purchase is "SilverStone Argon Series SST-AR03". Will it do? Or maybe I can still use Hyper 212 Evo?

2) PSU. :/ I want a quiet one that will fit in this case. I've read a lot of concerns about modular ones specifically in Node 304, but no definitive answers on the PSUs available to me (No SeaSonic, be quiet, kingwin). Maybe if you can suggest a list of them that are known to work in combinations with GTX970/980?

The one I'm looking at right now is "SilverStone Nightjar series NJ520" it's one of the few available to me, but it's modular and quite lengthy, so I'm not sure. :/
The other one is "SilverStone SFX Series SX500-LG", will it be quiet? Will it have enough juice to run Asus GTX 980, 2 HDDs and 1 SSD?

3) What would you recommend for HDDs? I plan on making a mirror of two HDDs. Mainly to store data, but it seems that I will offload some games/filedump there as well, as most games do not care about storage that much. I read some concerns about WD Green series in terms of constant spin-up process that nukes the life cycle of the disk. I have my eyes on Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 1 TB drives for now. But i'm afraid of vibration a bit.

4) I don't have a decent choice of ITX boards available for LGA1151 at this point, so maybe I should just wait and pick up the new platform already. But it doesn't seem like much of a win over my current choice.

Thank you, gentlemen!

[imaca]

Sorry, no help, I have just bought a Node 304 on special, and have similar intention and same question.
There seem to be no high quality modular PSUs of the recommended length (140mm) available locally here in NZ anyway. I have read about people squeezing larger supplies in with long card but haven't found any pictures. If a 160mm modular supply could be made to fit then there would be a lot more options.

[Abula]

1) Cooler choice. I plan on keeping hard drive bays for 4 hdds. I typically go with "Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo" because I had great experience with them, but I've read somewhere that it's not going to be compatible with Node 304. :/

The only thng i can think off that could make the 212Evo incompatible is the position of it against the hdds, once the hdds are mounted the space between the cables and the fan is small, still i think it might fit. There are options on fans like Prolimatech Vortex Ultra slim 12 or 14, both are like 10mm less than the standard 25mm fan. As an alternative you could go with an horizontal cooler, like Noctua NH-C14, i dont think it should have any issues with the hdds, but you should check the clearance toward the GPU.

2) PSU. :/ I want a quiet one that will fit in this case. I've read a lot of concerns about modular ones specifically in Node 304, but no definitive answers on the PSUs available to me (No SeaSonic, be quiet, kingwin). Maybe if you can suggest a list of them that are known to work in combinations with GTX970/980?

The one I'm looking at right now is "SilverStone Nightjar series NJ520" it's one of the few available to me, but it's modular and quite lengthy, so I'm not sure. :/
The other one is "SilverStone SFX Series SX500-LG", will it be quiet? Will it have enough juice to run Asus GTX 980, 2 HDDs and 1 SSD?

Problem is that you are chosing long GPUs and the space on the end of the GPU will match the PSU, you should look into long length PSUs if you want modular, specially 140mm, the more common or usual length is around 160mm which if its modular the cables sockets might be not usualble due to the GPU lenght, this is the case with the NJ520 (which seems like a Seasonic Platinum 520), which asks for the mesh to be up, and thus the modular connectors should be obstructed by the GTX970/980. Your options are limited, i know that Seasonic G550/650 will work, sort off, as when you position the PSU with the fan to the bottom, the none modular cables will be on the furtest side, thus not interfering with the GPU, and the modular cables end up at the bottom of the GPU, where most should be usuable, again its best to check with the GPU and how much clearance you will end up. Lucas (Quest_for_silence) has some other suggestions that i seen posted on Node304 threads, maybe he bumps into this thread to recommend you some PSU, i believe one was a Coolermaster 140mm but i cant recall the model.

3) What would you recommend for HDDs? I plan on making a mirror of two HDDs. Mainly to store data, but it seems that I will offload some games/filedump there as well, as most games do not care about storage that much. I read some concerns about WD Green series in terms of constant spin-up process that nukes the life cycle of the disk. I have my eyes on Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 1 TB drives for now. But i'm afraid of vibration a bit.

I no longer recommend using 7200rpm drivers unless you need them for editing, my recomendation if you are raiding the hdds is going with WD Reds, im running a WD Red 3tb hard mounted and i cant hear it, really good drives imo for pure storage. But im also going to recommend if you can to use them only for storage, and save for a bigger ssd for OS/Programs/Games, this will end up with a much quieter setup if the hdds arent access as much, there are SSDs now a days that are really affordable for big sizes, like Crucial BX100 1TB. Btw in case you dont want to use 2 hdd cages on the node304, you can place the SSD on on the front of the case inside the plastic cover, there are pics on OCN.net owners thread about this.

4) I don't have a decent choice of ITX boards available for LGA1151 at this point, so maybe I should just wait and pick up the new platform already. But it doesn't seem like much of a win over my current choice.

Well on Asus there seems to be a good upgrade in term of bios fan control, seems like the added some functionality of FanXpert to the bios, this would be great specially for two things, not using Asus AI suite (that imo is overwhelming) and in case down the future you move toward a server and you chose ZFS/Freenas/unraid/etc, the bios fan control will be useful not depending on windows. Btw MSI bios fan control imo is really good, as long as you understand that only the CPU_FAN is PWM and the rest (SYS_FAN) headers are voltage controlled, thus choosing the proper fans for each header is important.

Last recommendation, check OCN [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club, you will find there tons of builds, where you can see multiple hdd setups and different coolers and what PSU they are using, most use Asus motherboards as their CPU socket placement is ideal for a case like the Node304. As a last remark, other companies started to released their Mini ITX motherboards with the same layout as Asus, MSI and Gigabyte new offerings come to mind that have the same end results in terms of CPU socket placement and thus CPU cooler positioning.

[quest_for_silence]

Thank you, gentlemen!

Stating your location could help us to advice, given that too many parts seem to be not available to you.

[imaca]

Hi Abula, thanks for link to owners club.
Looking at builds on there, it looks like a 160mm long modular is out of question with long video cards.
Out of my remaining options, Seasonic s12G looks like about the best I can do; not modular, but only 140mm long, 5 year warranty and some good reviews (eg. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7761/seas ... ply-review).
Again, thanks for help.

[Abula]

Hi Abula, thanks for link to owners club.
Looking at builds on there, it looks like a 160mm long modular is out of question with long video cards.
Out of my remaining options, Seasonic s12G looks like about the best I can do; not modular, but only 140mm long, 5 year warranty and some good reviews (eg. http://www.anandtech.com/show/7761/seas ... ply-review).
Again, thanks for help.

Try to spend some time in the thread, you will find tons of info there, ill leave you some remarks from it (but there are much more, just dont have the time to read that much).

bobsaget post #5277

Here's the list of recommended PSUs for this case (modular, gold, 100% compatible with long GPU)
Seasonic G550
Cooler Master V550S
Silverstone ST55F-G

bobsaget post #5175

There are some rebranded G550 out there, Fractal Design Edison M for instance. The G550/V550 are solid performers already.

Dyaems post #5266

Heres another pic with a 12" 7970 Lightning and a G550 for your "peace of mind"

whereisbenny post #5999, a build with G550 + GTX970
Zjozz post #5774, a build with the G550 + long GPU

I would probably follow their recommendation into the Seasonic G550 or Coolermaster V550S.

Btw if you post you location, Lucas might give you other suggestions that will be worth considering, else either of the two above is what i would go with.

[Deer87]

Hi MrYellow,

I did a Node 304 gaming build a few months ago, with a lot of help from SPCR, you might wanna look for inspiration : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68403

Cooler: I used Noctua U12S and am quite content, so I cannot offer any knowlegde about the 212 EVO. They are similar in size, so i guess its not a problem. Don't take my word for it though

PSU: I went with a 16 cm XTS fanless 460W. (Should be a rebranded 460W Seasonic fanless). Works as a charm. Should provide plenty of power for the gtx970.
I can confirm it will be a problem with the gpu, IF you mount it is FD intended
There is room for the PSU itself, but the cables will be in the way of the gpu.

An easy fix is to rotate the PSU 180 degrees around the vertical axis, so the modular cables are coming out on the opposite side from the GPU. The internal powercable to the psu is long enough for this. You will have to get creative with the fastening but I managed to pull it off with cablestrips. I have been considering adhersive velcro as an alternative as the cablestrip solution might still be a tight fit if i upgrade to a gtx 970 gpu.
I have seen a guy in the 304 owners club who removed the bracket and used stickypads instead. Seemed happy enough

Quest_for_silence offered a different solution, simply turning the psu upside down. He has done it a couple of times, and says there is no problem with overheating.

[quest_for_silence]

Hi MrYellow,

I did a Node 304 gaming build a few months ago, with a lot of help from SPCR, you might wanna look for inspiration : viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68403

Hey Deer,

did you eventually lubricate your GTX 660 fans?

[Deer87]

Hey Luca

Nope, not yet. I was planning on posting the promised pics this weekend.

As the most noise is the air rush from the fan going 100 % I might just tough it out until the time is ripe for upgrading.

[MrYellow]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for help and suggestions. I've looked through the node 304 owners thread and other resources suggested in this topic.

I sacrificed the modular PSU idea, because Seasonic G series was not available, the case is not transparent, I have good experience with this vendor - "Be quiet!" (they are, for some time now, re-branding SeaSonic products regardless) and I will only be using one drive bay. The fan-less PSU scared me because of frequently reported coil whine noise complaints.

I found a mobo for the new platform, which should be "ok", so I payed a bit extra for that and the new CPU series.

My final list of components ended up the following.

Final list
Fractal - Node 304
Intel Core i5 6600K / 3.5 GHz processor - top of i5 series, my usual purchase. no heavy everyday video rendering for me.
Hyper 212 EVO - all the way for the past ~10 years.
16 GB (2 x 8 GB) Kingston HyperX FURY Black Series DDR4 - just ok I guess, low-profile, I need 16 GBs for a lot of VMs.
Z170I GAMING PRO AC - not my first choice, but only one available. Gigabyte GA-Z170N-WIFI would be better, but only on paper because of two network slots and lack of marketing BS.
Crucial Technology 250 GB M.2 - just because I'm saving myself one drive bay, M.2 sata level performance is more than enough for me. 500 GBs are pretty cheap now, but I decided against it, because my typical SSD storage is ~100 Gbs of data and instead spent that money on speakers.
WD Red 3TB NAS Hard Drive x 2 (two) - Mirror config. Went with this because of reviews here and vibration/noise levels, but a bit disappointed with the abysmal annual disk failure rate that's closing to 10% based on the data from here. Would like to see it mentioned in the HDD reviews in the future.
ASUS Strix GTX 970 OC 4 GB - 1080p cost/value
Be quiet! STRAIGHT POWER 10 | 600W - would gladly go for 500W one, but none available

I will summarize my build in a blog post soon enough and my process for choosing parts. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will arrive this week.

Thank you!

Other:
Deer87, I saw the black magic with double sided adhesive tape and some pins and some other voodoo. But what can I say - I'm a bit lazy to do that. :/
Abula, thank you for the detailed quotes, exactly the ones I've read and noticed in that topic too! The ASUS board FanXpert in bios feature seems cool! I did not wait until their boards become available for Skylake. Next build I will keep this in mind.

[MrYellow]

Hello, build assembled, with some issues along the way.

1) Hyper 212 EVO - did not fit, I almost feel bad about caring to check specifications of both the case, cooler and mobo before this, but it boiled down to one of the mounting legs being blocked by a chip on the motherboard. Hooray for MSI for making a design where cooler cannot be mounted without bending and voodoo magic.
Details in this album - http://imgur.com/a/7lMeB

2) Went with Scythe Katana 4 instead, not my first choice, but on paper tests it's very similar to EVO. Could have probably got a different set of mounting clips and tried to go with EVO regardless, but I have no such experience and didn't want to wait.

3) The build does not survive a 10 minute stress test by Prime95 (Version 28.6). With maximum CPU core temperature reaching ~80C - the PC shuts down. Not that it's incredibly stressing me out, but I did not expect this. The first test survived for 7 minutes, the second one after reboot died after 2-3 minutes. I gave up on this, but still have doubts that it's maybe a hardware issues somewhere, as the shutdown is way before TJ max temperatures.

4) There is a lot of cabling stuck from non-modular PSU on top of it where the disk drive tray used to be, potentially blocking some air flow in the case.

5) The video (ASUS Strix GTX 970) is a separate subject. Right now I'm running the more or less latest driver default fan profile, but after hearing how unpleasant the FAN noise can get, I went ahead and dug a bit deeper into the previous articles on the website to check if I'm missing something, like this chart right here (from thisarticle):


I don't know about other owners, but at 39% of maximum fan speed (~970 RPM) - the acoustics become very distinct and uncomfortable, and that's bearing in mind my case is located 5+ meters from my working place - monitor, keyboard and stuff.

30% is almost inaudible for me.
At 33% - it's pretty ok, I can live with that.
49% - my ears start to bleed.
65% - can be audible from the next room.
75%+ - apartment explodes.

The Asus tuning wizard does not let me define custom fan % speed for less than 40%. What am i missing? so it's either full out 40% or nothing. Update - come to think of it, the custom controls do not work at all.

When gaming it can hit the 39% and is rather uncomfortable and a downgrade for me (I've been running GTX 760 in Fractal Define R4 at 33% something and cooling has never been an issue even when gaming, inaudible).

Overall - majorly disappointed with the GPU. The fans are loud as hell, but at least I don't have the frequently reported coil while or haven't encountered it, yet.

I'm once again making the conclusion if you want something truly silent - it's far away from med-high-endish GPU chips and probably 1 generation older, and passively cooled, and without coil whine.

I'm open to suggestions how to cool this in my case, not many options except taking the side panel out? Not sure if it's even doable on Node 304, yet.

6) I'm rather concerned that during gaming the GPU VRM hits up to 101 C.

7) Probably there's no MOBO heat sensor at all or it's fried. RMA?

The good (so far):
0) The non-gaming performance is silent. no spinning fans on video, case fans on minimum. pleasant experience.
1) HDDs are solid. 5400, rather quiet and no discomfort.
2) M.2 SSD has a bit higher temperatures, but we'll survive, by vendor specs it works up to 70C.
3) The case looks nice and pleases me.
4) Encountered my first issues with Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse when the signal broke down because of the nearby router + the adapter inside the PC. Solution - plug in the receiver to the front of the case. Haha.
5) Idle temperatures:

idle_temperatures.PNG

[Abula]

1) Hyper 212 EVO - did not fit, I almost feel bad about caring to check specifications of both the case, cooler and mobo before this, but it boiled down to one of the mounting legs being blocked by a chip on the motherboard. Hooray for MSI for making a design where cooler cannot be mounted without bending and voodoo magic.
Details in this album - http://imgur.com/a/7lMeB

Sorry to hear about the extra chip on the bottom, i had the same issue mounting the NoFan95C to Intel mobo, it had something obstructing the mount of the bottom plate, but on my MSI H81i it worked fine. You should try talking with amazon they have a very good return policy.

2) Went with Scythe Katana 4 instead, not my first choice, but on paper tests it's very similar to EVO. Could have probably got a different set of mounting clips and tried to go with EVO regardless, but I have no such experience and didn't want to wait.

There are some coolers, even towers like 212 (none evo) that come with similar mounting than the intel stock, with clips that attach to the hole, personally i dont like it because a tower weights much more, but on a case like Node304 where its parallel to the the bottom, i don't think there will be an issue.

3) The build does not survive a 10 minute stress test by Prime95 (Version 28.6). With maximum CPU core temperature reaching ~80C - the PC shuts down. Not that it's incredibly stressing me out, but I did not expect this. The first test survived for 7 minutes, the second one after reboot died after 2-3 minutes. I gave up on this, but still have doubts that it's maybe a hardware issues somewhere, as the shutdown is way before TJ max temperatures.

It shoudlnt shut down on 80C, but can be other things like the chipset, very little cooling reaches the bottom of the board, with the cooler being tower and the PSU somewhat blocking, i would try outside the case with a fan toward the chipset to see if its unstable still.

4) There is a lot of cabling stuck from non-modular PSU on top of it where the disk drive tray used to be, potentially blocking some air flow in the case.

Its natural for a case like this and none modular PSU, but a lot of users have used the frame to somewhat minimized the lose cables.

5) The video (ASUS Strix GTX 970) is a separate subject. Right now I'm running the more or less latest driver default fan profile, but after hearing how unpleasant the FAN noise can get, I went ahead and dug a bit deeper into the previous articles on the website to check if I'm missing something, like this chart right here (from thisarticle):
I don't know about other owners, but at 39% of maximum fan speed (~970 RPM) - the acoustics become very distinct and uncomfortable, and that's bearing in mind my case is located 5+ meters from my working place - monitor, keyboard and stuff.

30% is almost inaudible for me.
At 33% - it's pretty ok, I can live with that.
49% - my ears start to bleed.
65% - can be audible from the next room.
75%+ - apartment explodes.

The Asus tuning wizard does not let me define custom fan % speed for less than 40%. What am i missing? so it's either full out 40% or nothing. Update - come to think of it, the custom controls do not work at all.

When gaming it can hit the 39% and is rather uncomfortable and a downgrade for me (I've been running GTX 760 in Fractal Define R4 at 33% something and cooling has never been an issue even when gaming, inaudible).

Overall - majorly disappointed with the GPU. The fans are loud as hell, but at least I don't have the frequently reported coil while or haven't encountered it, yet.

All your statments about the Asus GTX970 i agree, i used to own two, and in SLI it get very loud, to the point that on a stressing game it will easily reach 75% PWM and be loud as hell, below 40% pwm its a very nice card, but this is the main reason i bought MSI GTX980Ti, much quieter than Asus in a SLI setup at least.

6) I'm rather concerned that during gaming the GPU VRM hits up to 101 C.

I never hit that high from what i remember, but some VRMs run hot, weather or not its under tolerance is something you need to find out with Asus since its a custom vrm from them.

7) Probably there's no MOBO heat sensor at all or it's fried. RMA?

I would try with amazon first, i would exchange the mobo for an Asus and the GPU for MSI.

[MrYellow]

Hello, tuned my GPU fan profile and now I'm more or less happy with the results. I consider this build closed and a great "success". haha . My experience is described here. Thank you.

All your statments about the Asus GTX970 i agree, i used to own two, and in SLI it get very loud, to the point that on a stressing game it will easily reach 75% PWM and be loud as hell, below 40% pwm its a very nice card, but this is the main reason i bought MSI GTX980Ti, much quieter than Asus in a SLI setup at least.

I saw some remarks about the 980 being more quiet, but I just couldn't force myself to spend extra $$$ on it. Will wait for a better GPU generation.

I never hit that high from what i remember, but some VRMs run hot, weather or not its under tolerance is something you need to find out with Asus since its a custom vrm from them.

Got reply from ASUS tech support:

Dear Mr. ,

Thank you for your trust in our ASUS support.
My name is Allen and it is my pleasure to help you with the issue.

Please feel free to rate our service according to the solution provided in the questionnaire that will be sent to you shortly after our reply to your inquiry.

I inform you that the maximum temperature for VRM (Voltage regulator module) for Asus graphic cards is 120 degrees Celsius. The cards VRM will work with no issues whatsoever until 100 degrees and it's usually safe to work up to 110 degrees.

On a normal operation, the card's VRM will often reach 100 degrees and this will not affect the longevity of the card.

If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best Regards,
ASUS Technical Support