Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

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Andy9999
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:58 am

Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by Andy9999 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:51 am

Hi Forum,

this is my first posting here. :)

I had one of the most frustrating two weeks of my life behind me. Don't want to tell my life story, you can skip to the next paragraph if you like. It all started with a defective powesupply for a 4 monitor DVI switch. I replaced it and thought it was no biggie and turned off my PCs and returned the next day. Then I found one PC not recognizing my still new BenQ XL2720z after Windows loads (black screen) and another PC worked with the monitor but was now reduced to 640x480. I think the EDID of my monitor was killed. But I didn't have time to RMA it yet, because of what followed. Three days later I turn of our 24/7 running server, because we were leaving the house, so I thought it was smart to turn it off while no one is at home (has 9 disks @ 15k, 1KW powesupply, ...). When I came back a few hours later it did not turn on anymore. I asked a friend if he can repair it and after the first attempt the powersupply was working again. For like 5 minutes, and then the mainboard was fried, maybe also the cheap graphic card and the expensive SAS/RAID controller. I finally gave up on the machine because I had a backup. I planned to replace the noisy and power hungry machine with one of the cool Zotac R531 raid capable boxes (the only good thing you'll find in this story). I ordered it, but for the 4 or 5 days until it arrives and is setup properly, I had to let the 2 virtual machines from the big server run on my watercooled rig. My rig never ran for that duration, I usually use it for maybe 8-12 hours and then turn it off over night. It was rebuilt last year, with a new Asus Rampage IV Extreme, 4930K CPU, GTX780 using a Lian Li case with components from Aquacomputer (Radiator, Aquastream pump, plug&cool connectors and plug & cool tubing) and EK blocks for the CPU chipset and CPU. The tubing is only 1.5 years old. Before I ran this machine for like 8 years with the same tubing, but it was the thicker tubes and connectors, not plug & cool. However, after I set up the new Zotac Box with 512GB SSD Raid and copying the stuff on it and testing it for a while I decided to make the cutover. It was working and finally I turned of my watercooled rig and went happily to bed. When I woke up the next morning, I tried to power up my rig and it turned of after like 1 second. I opended it and was shocked to see that some water emerged on the GPU. I was already a bit worrying before if my rig would survive 4-5 days, but obviously it didn't. I checked the tubes and they were extremely stiff and dry. So I removed the water and investigated further. It seems the tubes were expanding a bit during those 4-5 days, but when I turned it off and the water temperature got low again, they had problems to find back their old shape, because of lack of elasticity. If I now bend one of those tubes, they crack and break. I dried all the components for a day and at least anything was still working (board, CPU, GPU, disks). I found that I did not have enough "fresh" tubing left to rebuild it and am still deeply shocked about the low quality of the tubes. Am in Spain, close to the coast and temps were kind of high this summer, maybe that is the problem for the tubes causing them to dry up and break.

I don't want the risk associated with watercooling anymore, especially if it is risks beyond my control, like bad tubing. I don't plan to replace the tubing every year to prevent such a mess. Also having more flexibility would be nice to shift components back and forth if needed, which is kind of difficult with a watercooled system.

That's why I had the idea to move back to an air-cooled system after almost 10 years of watercooling.

I would like the system to be silent but at the same time well cooled. I know this is difficult to achieve. :(

The components are:
Asus Rampage IV Extreme
Intel 4930K
Corsair 760i PSU
Gigabyte GTX780 (GHz Edition, has 3 fans on it)
GSkill TridentX Ram (with additional removable heat spreader, 54mm height with spreader or 39mm without)
2xWD 3TB Nas Edition drives (5400rpm)
1x256GB SSD
1xDVD drive

I still have a Lian-Li, with 360 radiator in top, aquastream pump, aquastream controller but because of the holes in the top for the three radiator fans and the reservoir it is probably not a good solution. Maybe someone is interested in the stuff?

I have googled the whole internet for three days and came up with theese cases and the two first ones are my favorites right now:
-Fractal Design Define R5
-Silverstone Fortress FT02, FT04 or FT05
-Corsair Graphite 760T
-Phanteks Enthoo Pro

The R5 looks really nice and seems to be well noise isolated with all that foam, but in reviews the temps were not optimal. The Silverstone cases seem to be really good with the cooling but I have no idea how loud my system would be. Given that it is not SLI, it is maybe OK to run the fans at medium or low speed. But maybe I will overclock some in the future. I had my CPU overclocked on water mildly from 3.9 to 4.2 (4.3 would be the maximum possible with my CPU I guess, 4930K is not a beast at overclocking afaik).

I don't like that you have to buy a special DVD or BD drive for the FT05 because it has no more external 5,25" bay so maybe FT02 or FT04 are a better choice. The DVD writer is like 80€ and the BD writer 150€. An external USB drive may work as well at less costs.

I also saw, that I have to watchout for the CPU cooler height because of my TridentX RAM.

The Fractal Design Define R5 allows CPU cooler heights of up to 180mm, so I can use almost any CPU cooler. Officially it only supports ATX boards and the Rampage IV is a little bit bigger, but I saw on other forums that it will fit in.

I have looked at those CPU coolers:
-Noctua NH-D15
-Noctua NH-D14
-BeQuiet Rock 3
-BeQuiet Rock 3 Pro

The Silverstone case only allows a CPU cooler height of up to 165mm instead, so the NH-D15 will not fit in conjunction with the TridentX Rams, because even when removing the RAMs heatspreaders one fan has to be moved up aproximately 5-10 mm increasing the NH-D15 height from 165 to 170-175mm.

1. Are my choices for CPU cooler and cases any good?

2. Will I need some additional case fans if I choose the R5 or the Silverstone FT02 for example? The FT02 has 3 big fans in the bottom as it seems. The FT04 has 2 180mm fans in the front by default.

3. Do I have any chance to get a silent PC, at least when doing normal stuff like browsing the internet, email, ... I don't care if it gets a bit louder under load when playing GPU intense games.

4. Maybe you have some other tips or know other better components to use for my build to get it as silent as possible.

That's it :) Thank you for reading.

CA_Steve
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Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by CA_Steve » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:53 pm

Welcome to SPCR.

Sorry to hear about your plumbing nightmare.

In general, the Fractal Define R5 and Silverstone FT02/05 are great cases. The Fractal runs quieter, the Silverstone runs cooler. If you were running SLI, I'd recommend the Silverstone rotated mobo cases. As you aren't it's just up to you - which looks better, has more features you like. Won't need extra fans with the Silverstone. I'd add a third fan for the R5 (2 front, one rear).

Cooler: Any of those will work. There's also the better performing Scythe Ninja 4. It has ~46mm clearance for RAM. It's single fan performance beat the dual fanned DH-15 with a 130W CPU. Overclocking should be fine...it's overvolting where things can get hot fast.

Haven't seen any reviews with acoustic numbers for your gfx card....but, my guess it'll be the noisiest component.

Andy9999
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by Andy9999 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:32 am

CA_Steve wrote:Welcome to SPCR.

Sorry to hear about your plumbing nightmare.

In general, the Fractal Define R5 and Silverstone FT02/05 are great cases. The Fractal runs quieter, the Silverstone runs cooler. If you were running SLI, I'd recommend the Silverstone rotated mobo cases. As you aren't it's just up to you - which looks better, has more features you like. Won't need extra fans with the Silverstone. I'd add a third fan for the R5 (2 front, one rear).

Cooler: Any of those will work. There's also the better performing Scythe Ninja 4. It has ~46mm clearance for RAM. It's single fan performance beat the dual fanned DH-15 with a 130W CPU. Overclocking should be fine...it's overvolting where things can get hot fast.

Haven't seen any reviews with acoustic numbers for your gfx card....but, my guess it'll be the noisiest component.
Thanks a lot Steve. I guess it was just the plumming. Don't want to badmouth aquacomputer, because all the rest of their equipment (aquastream, aquaero, radiator, reservoir, sensors) worked damn well for almost 10 years now and I guess it would run another 6 years or so.

But now it's time to get back to the roots, for 10% OC I don't want that additional stress anymore. Ten years ago I could overclock my Q6600 by 50% from 2.4GHz to 3.6GHz. I guess Intel makes sure theese days that they squeeze the max amount of money out of us.

I thought a bit more and ordered the Fractal R5 today together with the Scythe Ninja 4 as you recommended. This means one fan less. :)

I also ordered 3 of the Noctua NF-A14 PWN (instead of FLX), the 4 pin edition. My plan is to run the three fans of the motherboard instead of the case's fan controller. I hope that is a good idea. The Asus Rampage IV Extreme has plenty of fan connectors (3 for the case + 3 optional fans). I want to connect the 3 Noctuas to the board and also add the 2 existing Fractal ones (with 3 pin) to the optional fan connectors. Then I want to use the 3 Noctuas and if needed the other 2 fans as well (from the bottom then), all controlled through software, maybe using different profiles. I don't even have the case yet, but I heard the door is not the very best (plastic) and I would prefer software to control the fans.

I will update the thread when I received the components and installed it. :)

Two more days of waiting......

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by CA_Steve » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:13 am

Hmm...you may run into issues with PWM fans and Asus case fan headers...on the standard Ivy Bridge mobos, the only true PWM headers were the CPU fans. Don't know about their IVB-E mobos. If this is the case, you can always run the fans off the CPU cooler fan profile and use PWM fan splitters.

Also, 5 fans may just add more noise with just a little benefit of additional cooling. I'd suggest 2 front and 1 rear as your baseline. See how it is for noise/temps. Then try adding the other fans and see if they provide benefit.

Andy9999
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by Andy9999 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:34 am

CA_Steve wrote:Hmm...you may run into issues with PWM fans and Asus case fan headers...on the standard Ivy Bridge mobos, the only true PWM headers were the CPU fans. Don't know about their IVB-E mobos. If this is the case, you can always run the fans off the CPU cooler fan profile and use PWM fan splitters.

Also, 5 fans may just add more noise with just a little benefit of additional cooling. I'd suggest 2 front and 1 rear as your baseline. See how it is for noise/temps. Then try adding the other fans and see if they provide benefit.
I heard they should work. I found some threads of people complaining that not all three of the optional fan ones were working, but that seems to be a manufacturing problem. At least the three CHA fans should work. I hope so.

I will test if it makes any temp difference under load (maybe OCed) with the two additional fans turned on, if my board will do that. :) i assume you will be correct that it doesn't serve a purpose, i read some spcr review with some case where that was tried too.

Andy9999
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by Andy9999 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Delivery was increddibly fast, within 24h, so I got the stuff one day earlier.

I just completed the move to the new case and it is very silent indeed. :) Am very happy with it.

Installing the Ninja 4 wasn't easy because of the mobo and my specific RAM but I finally got it done. Had to remove the heat-spreader on 6 of my 8 RAM sticks but it fitted perfectly. I thought it was smart to order 16GB more of the same RAM, because it is impossible to install them once the Ninja is installed. This also gave me the biggest trouble, because I needed a few custom settings in the BIOS to support 8 sticks with that mobo, before it ran stable. They are supposed to run at 2400 but I had to lower speed to 1600, because my CPU seems to be limiting the memory speed if using 8 sticks.

The 3 CHA fan ports on the Rampage Extreme IV work so far with PWN as I wanted, but currently it is just controlled by the BIOS settings (TURBO/SILENT/...).

System is running and one can barely hear it. I don't know yet what will happen when putting load on it, hopefully tomorrow. So far I have only installed the 3 Noctuas, without the two additional Scythe fans but I hope I will find some time in the next days to play around a bit.

The temps look lower than before. At idle 30-33 degrees.

When dismantling the old PC I probably found what killed the tubes. The radiator was full of dust, never been cleaned in like 10 years. So this in turn led to relatively high water temps I guess like 60-70 degrees if under heavy load. This fried the tubes in 1.5 years. LOL. I guess the dust filter of the R5 case is a good feature for me.

Thanks again Steve! :-]

CA_Steve
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Re: Silent PC Build Attempt (AIR)

Post by CA_Steve » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:37 pm

Enjoy your upgrade :)

Yeah - dust can be a killer.

CPU idle temps: 30-33C sounds good. Really, anything in the 5-8C range over ambient is very good. I look forward to your stress testing results with 3 and 5 fans :)

I don't know where the sweet spot is for IVB-E memory speeds in real world applications. For IVB, 1600 is fine. For Haswell, 1600 is fine as well...with a slight bump for 1866.

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