New Build Based On Quiet ATX Gamer

[Button_Mash]

I have recently decided it is time to upgrade my PC so I started putting together a component list using the Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version as my starting template. Some new components have been released since the guide was written and I live in New Zealand so component availability is always an issue too. For some of the components I have been struggling to choose between the last couple of components on my short list. I have been reading SPCR for a long time so I thought now would be as good a time as any to sign up and get some advice from the other members.

Here is what I have come up with so far:

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000
Primary Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2
Secondary Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5"
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 670 2GB
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (NZ$229.95) Or Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q (NZ$249.95)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650i (NZ$248.40) Or be quiet! Straight Power 10 600W CM (NZ$189.49)
Optical Drive: LG BH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer

The video card and optical drive are both from my existing computer. I wanted to hold off on upgrading the video card because I suspect the next generation of NVIDIA GPUs will be very impressive. The existing optical is sufficient for my needs.

Apart from the existing parts, the other parts that are not negotiable are the CPU cooler and the storage. I wanted to do a pure SSD system this time around and I bought the SSDs already during the Boxing Day sales. I also have the CPU cooler on the way from Amazon as it is not available locally .

I was going to go with the RM650i for the power supply as the is the best one I could find locally available but I recently saw that I could get the be quiet! from Amazon UK for a lower price if I was willing to wait for it to be shipped.

Originally I was going to stick with the R5 for the case as that was what was used in the Quiet ATX Gamer guide but I recently read the review of the 600Q and it sounded like it could do equally as well or possibly better. If I go with the R5, as per the guide I would need to get and additional fan to achieve the same results. If I go with the 600Q I may need to get replacement fans if I don't like the sound of the stock fans. For this purpose I kind of like the idea of the Fractal Design Venturi HP-14 fans. In theory they should be better than the GP-14 fans in the R5 that impressed but they have not been reviewed by SPCR yet and unfortunately fans that are better in theory aren't always better in reality.

As far as my use cases go, I am not a hard-core gamer but I do play often and I like to play at native resolution with the graphics set on maximum settings. I also frequently use virtual machines and I also do software development, hence why I aimed a bit higher than average for the CPU and memory.

Hopefully I have provided enough information to work with and I look forward to seeing what advice you all have for me .

[edh]

CPU: Are you likely to do extreme overclocking? If not, a non-K CPU will suffice. They can still overclock but are not unlocked. For gaming use an i7 is pretty useless but I assume that your VM use may be pretty multithread heavy hence the i7?

CPU cooler: I see you have already bought the Kotetsu. That should be fine although I'm not convinced the Glidestream fan is the absolute best - it's not Scythe's best fan effort. Are you considering any fan swap for this?

Motherboard: Not that cheap a motherboard. Are you dependant upon any of the extra features it brings? A lot of marketing gimmicks go into high end motherboard design. I would save some money here. The next Asus model down is the Z170 Pro Gaming. Also, do you need ATX as you don't seem to have many components? mATX might be more appropriate.

Memory: How much extra is the 3000MHz stuff? SPCRs testing on DDR4 memory scaling showed minimal difference. Basically unless it's near enough the same price don't bother.

Graphics card: This will be the loudest component on load. When are you expecting to upgrade it? Any cooling mods to help keep it quiet?

Case: As with motherboard, do you need a big ATX case for so few components? The Corsair is enormous! Consider the Define Mini instead.

Power supply: Your total system TDP will be a lot less than 300W and that's the absolute max theoretical. Under heavy gaming use maybe 200W. A 600W+ PSU will be poor value. I know there is a temptation to oversize 'for futureproofing' or that 'oh at 50% a PSU is most efficicient and is quietest' but these arguments are pretty weak. Modern PSUs will operate at near maximum efficiency at 80% and normal use (what a computer spends much of it's time doing is pretty much idle) is more important for efficiency. As for quietness, at 200W your other components will be making far more noise than a quiet PSU fan at 500-1000rpm. Save a great chunk of money and use a smaller PSU. You will need 2x 6-pin PCI-E connectors which therefore means you will need a >400W PSU unless you want to use splitters but there is a good choice of 450-550W PSUs that will fill your needs. What can you get locally?

[Button_Mash]

CPU: Are you likely to do extreme overclocking? If not, a non-K CPU will suffice. They can still overclock but are not unlocked. For gaming use an i7 is pretty useless but I assume that your VM use may be pretty multithread heavy hence the i7?

If I am completely honest, I have had K series CPUs in the past and I have never done any overclocking so this is a valid point. I am assuming i7 helps with the virtual machines but I have no hard data. Dropping to a 6700 will save NZ$80 (US$53.96, £36.36) while dropping to a 6600K will save NZ$190 (US$128.16, £86.36). Going to a 6600 will on save a extra NZ$21 (US$14.16, £9.54) over the 6600K. Out of those options the 6600K is the most tempting for me.

CPU cooler: I see you have already bought the Kotetsu. That should be fine although I'm not convinced the Glidestream fan is the absolute best - it's not Scythe's best fan effort. Are you considering any fan swap for this?

I am definitely open to a fan swap. The most recommended fans are not readily available locally but if it is worth it I can always order from Amazon. On paper I like the Venturi HP-12 but the only review I have read so far with hard data was over at CoolingTechnique.

Motherboard: Not that cheap a motherboard. Are you dependant upon any of the extra features it brings? A lot of marketing gimmicks go into high end motherboard design. I would save some money here. The next Asus model down is the Z170 Pro Gaming. Also, do you need ATX as you don't seem to have many components? mATX might be more appropriate.

Dropping down to the Z170 Pro Gaming is an option as I wouldn't lose much in the way of main features and it is NZ$70 (US$47.22, £31.82) cheaper. The reason I leaned towards the Ranger is that my previous board had some mysterious errors and I had to do a lot of troubleshooting. I found the error code display to be handy and the ability to flash the bios when you can even get into the bios saved me a couple of times. That being said, that is a worst case scenario and I am hoping to avoid all of that this time around.

With regards to the smaller motherboards, I am not against choosing one (my current system is micro ATX) but one thing I am not fond of is the positioning of the M.2 slot. Micro ATX tends to put it behind the GPU which is the hottest component of the system and Mini ITX puts it on the back of the motherboard which is not near any hot components but also not open to airflow. It is hard to know how much impact this has without testing though.

Memory: How much extra is the 3000MHz stuff? SPCRs testing on DDR4 memory scaling showed minimal difference. Basically unless it's near enough the same price don't bother.

The biggest savings would be gained by dropping to 2400MHz. This would save NZ$56.62 (US$38.19, £25.73). I have no strong feelings on this one, just trying to hit the sweet spot for price vs performance and avoid any tall heat spreaders.

Graphics card: This will be the loudest component on load. When are you expecting to upgrade it? Any cooling mods to help keep it quiet?

It will be upgraded within the next year. I bought this model because it was the quietest at stock at the time but I not made any modifications to it. I have not tried modifying the fan curve yet which is something I should do.

Case: As with motherboard, do you need a big ATX case for so few components? The Corsair is enormous! Consider the Define Mini instead.

Well the Quiet ATX Gamer was the template I used for this build hence the size but I have thought about going smaller. I was really curious to see how the Silverstone PS07-E was going to turn out but unfortunately that case is still not released at this time. If there was an updated Define Mini with similar upgrades as the R5 I would probably be all over that too. One smaller build that really intrigued me was going with a Fractal Core 500 and an Asus Z170i Pro Gaming. I wouldn't have a template to go off and I have a few concerns like the rear mounted m.2 on a horizontal motherboard, PSU plug orientation with my limited choices and cable management. I can get a bit obsessive/compulsive about these things .

The Corsair is not that much bigger than the R5 is it? Maybe I am reading it wrong but isn't it mostly extra width? It's slightly taller too but it has taller feet which I actually like for keeping the bottom vents unobstructed.

Power supply: Your total system TDP will be a lot less than 300W and that's the absolute max theoretical. Under heavy gaming use maybe 200W. A 600W+ PSU will be poor value. I know there is a temptation to oversize 'for futureproofing' or that 'oh at 50% a PSU is most efficient and is quietest' but these arguments are pretty weak. Modern PSUs will operate at near maximum efficiency at 80% and normal use (what a computer spends much of it's time doing is pretty much idle) is more important for efficiency. As for quietness, at 200W your other components will be making far more noise than a quiet PSU fan at 500-1000rpm. Save a great chunk of money and use a smaller PSU. You will need 2x 6-pin PCI-E connectors which therefore means you will need a >400W PSU unless you want to use splitters but there is a good choice of 450-550W PSUs that will fill your needs. What can you get locally?

I am not overly concerned about futureproofing. If anything I think that power draw is going down with newer generations these days. I was mostly driven by the recommendations in the guide and on the forums as well as availability. The Corsair RMx series is not available here and the RMi only goes down to 650W. There is a limited selection of EVGA PSUs here with nothing below 650W. There is also a limited selection of Seasonic PSUs with the SSR-450RM being the only modular one under 600W. It also costs the same as the Straight Power 10 600W CM from Amazon UK and hasn't really shown up in any of the recommendations. I could get the Straight Power 10 500W CM from Amazon UK but it actually cost more than the Straight Power 10 600W CM right now.

[memory_leak]

Why would you buy GTX 670 in year 2016? Unless you are migrating it from an old system of course.

I don't see reason to go for 1TB evo disk either. 512 gig 950 Pro is more than enough for the OS and 1TB for storage and backup is probably not enough. Personally I would rather put in 2x3TB Sata HDDs and run raid 1 for storage/backup, if you have money go for 2x6TB. 1TB Evo SSD is still about 20% more in cost than 6TB Nas drive from WD (at least here in Sweden).

I still haven't bought mine components, but I am actually thinking on going 512 Evo SDD instead of 512 Pro M.2 for OS disk. The reason is that extra speed will probably not be noticed in day to day usage, since probably no OS will saturate the bandwith of pcie drive with normal usage. NVMe protocol should give some better latencies though, and I am still researching and checking reviews and discussions about this, but I am starting to believe that percieved difference will not be worth the money. Sure on paper and benchmarks it will be huge difference, but for normal OS use, I am in a bit of doubt.

I am going for slightly lower 2400 speed, but planning to put in 32 gig instead. I am planning to run a lot out of the ram, maybe entire os. I am gonna run Linux as main OS and Windows in WM just for occasional work in Office (I do VBA programming as consult) and for some gaming (will be interesting to see how VGA pass-through works in qemu or vbox). If you are developer, having temporary files in RAM instead of harddrives will speed you up compiling quite a bit. On Linux it is really dumb-simple to set it up with tmpfs, in Windows you will have to work a bit to get Visual Studio to be happy with ramdisk but it works just fine.

For PSU I have chosen 520W fanless Seasonic, same reasoning as poster above. However platinum effiecency PSUs are not much cheaper, so there really is not much to save if I go for one with fan (I get about 200 extra wat for same money, but that's about it).

[edh]

If I am completely honest, I have had K series CPUs in the past and I have never done any overclocking so this is a valid point.

Non-K CPU looks to be the sensible choice then. Ether 6700 if you need hyperthreading for your VM use or 6600 if hyperthreading isn't a big deal.

my previous board had some mysterious errors and I had to do a lot of troubleshooting. I found the error code display to be handy and the ability to flash the bios when you can even get into the bios saved me a couple of times.

Alternatively you could just pull the BIOS battery. It's always worth trying with a non-booting system. This is an unlikely circumstance and generally shows something is badly wrong (I picked up an old system from a friend which did this a lot because of a bad motherboard).

Micro ATX tends to put it behind the GPU which is the hottest component of the system and Mini ITX puts it on the back of the motherboard which is not near any hot components but also not open to airflow.

My M.2 has got up to 70C under synthetic use on the back of a Mini ITX board: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68832

M.2 drives are designed to run pretty hot and are fitted with thermal throttling if they get too hot. Something to consider is that the thermal throttling is there to save the drive and major companies that want to stay in business won't want to sell you something that breaks all of the time, therefore it will be set conservatively. Throttling would effect performance but not greatly during every day use. You could also put a few memory sinks on an M.2 if you are worried.

Do consider though: if temperate was that much of an issue for reliability, don't you think the manufacture would have prefitted them with a set of small sinks? The cost would be so much less than the cost of covering a warranty failure.

The biggest savings would be gained by dropping to 2400MHz. ... I have no strong feelings on this one, just trying to hit the sweet spot for price vs performance and avoid any tall heat spreaders.

This SPCR review showed the sweetspot doesn't really exist and high end DDR4 has no real benefit:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Skylake_Memory_Scaling

[xan_user]

if you are worried about back of mobo placement. m.2 extension cables are $20-40

[Button_Mash]

After further reading it seems like all of my concerns about building in the Core 500 can be overcome. In the TechPowerUp Review they use a power supply with the plug in the most awkward orientation and they also did a good job with the cable routing too, all things considered. The m.2 card behind the motherboard could still be troublesome for me as the Samsung 950 Pro I purchased throttles at 98°C and can hit this temperature under sustained transfers. I quite like the solution of using the case as a heat sink posted here but that would not be as effective in the Core 500 (steel vs aluminium).

I think the safest thing for me to do is keep it simple and stick with an ATX case. I have no requirements to easily transport my computer and I am not lacking the space for an ATX case. Both ATX case options are not noticeably taller or deeper than my old Antec P182B, although they are both wider, especially the 600Q. This way the m.2 will have air from the intake fans blowing across it. If by some chance that is still not enough, being on the front side of the motherboard allows me to add a small heat sink to the controller chip. I still have no idea if I should stick to the Quiet ATX Gamer guide and go with the R5 and Straight Power 10 or if I should change one or both of those components. The 600Q seems like it would be more efficient at cooling the system and with one less fan but the stock fans are not as good acoustically as the R5. This of course would be a moot point if I end up replacing all the stock fans. Will I notice a big difference between the RM650i and Straight Power 10? I like that the Straight Power 10 is always on and is still quiet. I know the RM650i can be switched to always on as well but I have read that the minimum fan speed in that case 700-750 rpm which may not be as quiet.

[Button_Mash]

After reconsidering the reviews and finding no strong opinions in this thread, I am leaning towards trying the Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q. My logic is that it appears to have better cooling potential with the possibly of using less case fans. Also all the drive cages of the R5 are wasted on this build. Overall the two cases seem very close to each other so it is a tough choice.

As for the power supply, I have decided it is probably not worth the extra effort of getting the be quiet! shipped from Europe even though it is cheaper than the locally sourced RM650i. It is starting to look like this build might be an advertisement for Corsair .

I will start off with just the stock fans for the case and CPU cooler but I strongly suspect that I will be doing a full fan upgrade in future so any advice in this area would still be appreciated.

[lodestar]

As you can run PWM case fans it might be worth considering the Noctua redux-1200 NF-P14s 140mm PWM fan which is available from here locally and possibly elsewhere. See the details on the Noctua website. This fan has a nominal speed range of 350 to 1200 rpm. Using the Asus motherboard BIOS Silent Profile I would expect this fan to idle somewhere between 350 to 450 rpm. If the supplementary Asus Fan Xpert software is used this can drop to 200 to 300 rpm, depending on ambient temperature. It is completely silent at the lower speed ranges and the redux monochrome tones are probably a better match for your case.

[Button_Mash]

So I finally picked up all the parts needed for this build. Here is what I finally settled on:

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K
CPU Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VIII RANGER
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000
Primary Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2
Secondary Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5"
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 670 2GB (From existing PC)
Case: Corsair Carbide Quiet 600Q
Power Supply: Corsair RM650i
Optical Drive: LG BH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer (From existing PC)

If I had upgraded the video card it would have been quite similar to the Quiet 4K Gaming PC build guide.

So far getting the build to be stable has been a nightmare, let alone getting it to be quiet.

The USB ports not detecting the USB hub in my monitor is my smallest issue. The bigger issue is that the PC will also randomly restart and complain about power surges being detected. I am going to take it all apart and start again, adding back each part individually to see if I can narrow it down. Since these are mostly motherboard features I will post on the motherboard manufacturers forums to see if anyone else has experienced these issues.

What also worries me, that you guys could help me with, is CPU temperatures. In SPCR's testing the Kotetsu is similar if not better than the Mugen Max however when I run the Prime95 (Small FFTs) I was getting a package temperature of around 93°C which is a lot higher than in the Quiet 4K Gaming PC build guide. I also ran the blend test which was in the 70°C to 80°C range. My ambient temperature is around 25°C which is nothing special. I have not intentionally overclocked anything but it looked like I was running at 4.2GHz which is the max turbo. I would have thought turbo would have turned off at those temps but I confess I have not really looked into how that works before. It kind of looks like I have screwed up the cooler installation somehow but it seemed pretty foolproof apart from the thermal grease application. Maybe I used too much or too little but it didn't seem any different to my previous installations. Maybe I am not running the tests under the same conditions as SPCR. I couldn't find what version of Prime95 they were using so I just grabbed the latest version.

[CA_Steve]

You can check is to see if your Asus mobo s/w is messing with the stock CPU voltage and clock. Sometimes there is an autodefault to OC...or sometimes they just set the core voltage higher.

What's the CPU idle temp?

[Button_Mash]

You can check is to see if your Asus mobo s/w is messing with the stock CPU voltage and clock. Sometimes there is an autodefault to OC...or sometimes they just set the core voltage higher.

What's the CPU idle temp?

So upon further investigation, the reason my CPU is running at 4.2GHz is because of the default UEFI settings of the motherboard. ASUS Multicore Enhancement and CPU Core Ratio are the related UEFI settings for future reference. Voltage seems to be a little bit over 1.3v at this speed if I am reading everything right.

My idle temperature seems to be around 33°C.

[CA_Steve]

Ok. 33C idle with 25C ambient is pretty good. If it were 40C, I'd immediately say there is a mounting issue. But, it still may be as 91C is outside the range of normal operation with this cooler - even with the 1.3V @ 4.3Ghz.

A couple of things to try:
- Dismount the cooler. Take pictures of the cooler base and CPU and post them. The thermal paste should look nearly transparent over the center and then a little thicker outside that radius. If it has fractal like patterns in the center and beyond - it wasn't a good mount. Clean, reapply and try again.
- You should be able to run 4.3GHz at 1.2V.

[Button_Mash]

Well, the good news is that I am posting this message from the new computer. After rebuilding the computer the restarts and surge warnings were still there so I had the power supply replaced and that seems to have done the job. The USB issue is a little weird but I can work with it. It seems that my motherboard will not detect any USB device that was plugged in before the motherboard received power and will forget all USB devices when it loses power. Since I was disconnecting the power a lot to add parts it was really noticeable but in normal use this won't be a problem unless I experience a power cut.

As for my temperatures, I think the Multicore Enhancement could have been throwing things off. It was raising the VCORE to 1.450v and increasing the load temperature by 10°C all for a measly 200MHz overclock. For now I have disabled Multicore Enhancement and also set CPU Core Ratio to Auto. Right now it is morning so my ambient temperature is a bit cooler at 21°C. Idle temperature is around 29°C and Prime95 Small FFTs x8 is around 82°C. Prime95 Small FFTs x2 was hovering around 61°C which is not too far off the temperature that Lawrence was getting in the Quiet 4K Gaming PC Build Guide, so if Lawrence was running with Multicore Enhancement disabled then I think I am in pretty good shape. He was also using 2 intake fans while I am only using one at this stage, but I did have to order replacement fans for the unpleasant sounding stock chassis fans so I made sure to order an extra one to see if it helps the CPU temperature.

Once the new fans arrive, it looks like the next thing I need to do is get good at fan tuning. The motherboard defaults to 0 seconds for fan spin up and spin down times and the fan changing speeds all time is quite noticeable so that will have to change at the very least.

[CA_Steve]

You can set hysteresis on Asus fan controls. That'll help.

[Button_Mash]

You can set hysteresis on Asus fan controls. That'll help.

What is considered a safe value for CPU spin up time? Right now I have it at 2.1 seconds which is the lowest value except for zero. I wouldn't want to run for too long without adequate cooling.

[quest_for_silence]

I wouldn't want to run for too long without adequate cooling.

Don't be too much concerned about, it's not like fifteen years ago: modern CPUs may stay without adequate cooling for any long boot process.

[CA_Steve]

tl;dr: They are all safe. You can't harm the CPU. Pick one that suits your needs for temps and fan rpm rate of change.

Expanding on Luca's comment...you really can't overheat the CPU. At some point (100C with Skylake w/o other breakpoints set), the CPU will lower it's core voltage and frequency in order to lower the core temp (aka thermal throttling).

[Button_Mash]

Just installed the replacement fans today, 3 Fractal Design Venturi HP-14 PWM fans, 2 as front intakes and 1 rear exhaust. I must say that with no scientific testing, my subjective opinion is that I am very pleased with the result. I can barely tell that the computer is on at idle with my noise floor. Idle and Prime95 Small FFTs x2 temperatures haven't really changed but noise produced now is just a mild hum which sounds more pleasant to my ears but your mileage may vary. The best part is I haven't even done any fan tuning yet. I simply set all fans to PWM mode and used the motherboards built in "Silent" profile.

Hopefully I will be able to get a Nvidia Pascal based GPU sometime this year and then I might look at full system fan tuning if necessary. Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and answered my questions. I think I have ended up with a really solid base for quiet system to last me for many years to come. I feel this deserves a few smiley face emojis.

[CA_Steve]

Congrats