Fractal r5 case fans and more

[CA_Steve]

CPU cooler:
- why not try them both as you have an older build that needs retrofitting, anyway.
- stick with the stock Kotetsu fan
- Intel's been pretty good about keeping the same/similar mechanical footprint for the CPU even as the pin count varies. Note that coolers typical support back to socket 775 with the slots and/or separate holes in the mount bracket.

[ThePrussianPrince]

CPU cooler:
- why not try them both as you have an older build that needs retrofitting, anyway.
- stick with the stock Kotetsu fan
- Intel's been pretty good about keeping the same/similar mechanical footprint for the CPU even as the pin count varies. Note that coolers typical support back to socket 775 with the slots and/or separate holes in the mount bracket.

Thanks for the help again. I have an i5 2500k, motherboard, and 2 extra sticks of DDR3 lying around. Also an AMD HD 5850 (or ATI? can't remember if they were bought by AMD at this point, haha).

I will get the Scythe Kotetsu then. Though, this table shows a lead for the NH-D15 (though a very, very small one and maybe not applicable in my case): http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1395-page6.html

Just wondering which one would be more optimal for the "new" build. Bear in mind I mean OC'ing as well, potentially overvolting so maybe keeping the NH-D15 is still better, in the main build.

EDIT: I saw in another thread that you suggested a Ninja over the Kotetsu: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67569&start=90
Don't they basically perform the same? Or am I missing something? You seem to mention: "Kotetsu would be fine for overclock w/ stock voltage. Maybe the Ninja for overvolting." Please enlighten me, I'm confused. How does the NH-D15 fit into this as well?

It does seem that NH-D15 is quite a bit better in situations where there is an overclock (that doesn't involve overvolting). Unless someone here can prove me wrong.

[quest_for_silence]

Is there any downside to modular or semi-modular PSUs compared to non-modular ones?

Modular cabling may help... cabling (cleaner, tidier: really useful in tight or crowded spaces, may improve a bit the airflow).

I didn't see any recommendations of a Seasonic X PSU

The only X is the 650W one, but pricing wasn't competitive on those shops (too close to the P-660).

[ThePrussianPrince]

Modular cabling may help... cabling (cleaner, tidier: really useful in tight or crowded spaces, may improve a bit the airflow).

Yeah, I was just wondering if there's an actual downside besides the price for modular/semi-modular PSUs. I guess not then.

The only X is the 650W one, but pricing wasn't competitive on those shops (too close to the P-660).

Ahhh okay, fair enough, thanks! Again, hoping it won't come to having to buy another PSU. I actually also have another Seasonic PSU (an M12II 520W), but I'm not very confident when it comes to using that in my main build. I'll keep it for the older one, with the 2500k.

[CA_Steve]

EDIT: I saw in another thread that you suggested a Ninja over the Kotetsu: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67569&start=90
Don't they basically perform the same? Or am I missing something? You seem to mention: "Kotetsu would be fine for overclock w/ stock voltage. Maybe the Ninja for overvolting." Please enlighten me, I'm confused. How does the NH-D15 fit into this as well?

It does seem that NH-D15 is quite a bit better in situations where there is an overclock (that doesn't involve overvolting). Unless someone here can prove me wrong.

Kotetsu vs Ninja: same base, same mounting system, so similar capability to pull heat from CPU. Main difference is cooler fin mass. The latter didn't matter much for the 125W TDP CPU used in the review. But, perhaps with higher wattage, the bigger fin mass with approprite fan cfm can provide a better solution. Hard to compare against the Noctua as it has different everything. At some point, you need to stop quibbling over a few degrees C and dB. Every system is different. Every system needs to be tuned during install.

[ThePrussianPrince]

Kotetsu vs Ninja: same base, same mounting system, so similar capability to pull heat from CPU. Main difference is cooler fin mass. The latter didn't matter much for the 125W TDP CPU used in the review. But, perhaps with higher wattage, the bigger fin mass with approprite fan cfm can provide a better solution. Hard to compare against the Noctua as it has different everything. At some point, you need to stop quibbling over a few degrees C and dB. Every system is different. Every system needs to be tuned during install.

Yeah, I suppose that Ninja and Kotetsu aren't too different. But the NH-D15 should perform quite a bit better while OC'd and overvolted, at least that's my impression and what I've seen in reviews. Which is also why I bought it in the first place a while back. However, the SPCR review makes it seem like they're nearly identical, though of course that's not considering a 4790k setup overvolted and overclocked. That is puzzling me.

The thing is, those extra few degrees could mean whether or not I could pull off an OC at a specific multiplier. But yeah, hard to say when someone doesn't have the exact setup I do. (I'm talking both my current build and the older one)

[CA_Steve]

You really have to look at the individual reviewer's test conditions. Is it an open fixture? Are they using a heated slug or a CPU? What's the CPU and it's socket? Are they operating within the TDP or are they overclocking/overvolting? If so, how much? Did they test and then remove the cooler to review how well the cooler mounted? Did they mount/test multiple times and take an average or just mount once and go. All of these things can cause different results.

Add on to this that fan speed greatly impacts the temps and fan rpm vs temp isn't linear. Some coolers work great at low rpm, some need higher rpm/cfm before the degree C curve stops looking like the steep end of the ski slope and starts looking like the bottom of the hill. <shug>

[quest_for_silence]

But the NH-D15 should perform quite a bit better while OC'd and overvolted, at least that's my impression

You need heath/watts to let a NH-D1X shine: even if you "properly" OC/OV a 4790K (I guess up to 1.35V vcore / 4.6GHZ), you can't squeeze more than about 130W out of it (maybe 150W if you can go as high as 4.8GHZ, but still not enough).
Besides it also sports that inefficient TIM, which limits any OC attempt, and so any serious thermal exploit.
Last but not least, the higher dissipation requires an higher ventilation/axial flow, and so much greater noise level, and you won't see such figures tested on SPCR.
Definitely, relatively low dissipation and modest ventilation make the differences not easily predictable just on size/mass basis, though at any rate it seems sound to assume that you may more safely squeeze the last Hz off a larger, proven heatsink when relatively large overvolting is applied.

[ThePrussianPrince]

You need heath/watts to let a NH-D1X shine: even if you "properly" OC/OV a 4790K (I guess up to 1.35V vcore / 4.6GHZ), you can't squeeze more than about 130W out of it (maybe 150W if you can go as high as 4.8GHZ, but still not enough).
Besides it also sports that inefficient TIM, which limits any OC attempt, and so any serious thermal exploit.
Last but not least, the higher dissipation requires an higher ventilation/axial flow, and so much greater noise level, and you won't see such figures tested on SPCR.
Definitely, relatively low dissipation and modest ventilation make the differences not easily predictable just on size/mass basis, though at any rate it seems sound to assume that you may more safely squeeze the last Hz off a larger, proven heatsink when relatively large overvolting is applied.

Inefficient TIM? The NH-D15 comes pre-applied with Noctua NT-H1, doesn't it? And that's quite good TIM, apparently it dries out pretty quickly though. Though, it's long gone for me because, well... I had to change it. Currently, I use Arctic Ceramique 2 because it's non-conductive and non-capacitive. It's not the best, but TIM doesn't really matter unless it's a terrible one, right? Well I suppose Ceramique makes the installation job harder because it's quite thick, but that's about it.

Now, I was given an answer by the shop: they're giving me the money back that I paid for the PSU (540 RON AKA 131 dollars). So, my question is: out of the list you gave me, which one should I get? Semi-modular or modular, as I don't like non-modular ones. Also, the shop is PC Garage. So, anything below 540 RON is out of the question, such as:

http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/corsair/ps ... lar-135mm/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/be-quiet/s ... gold-500w/

This leaves me with these options you posted:
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/be-quiet/d ... inum-650w/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/be-quiet/d ... -platinum/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/enermax/platimax-600w/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/corsair/rm ... plus-gold/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/be-quiet/s ... gold-600w/
http://www.pcgarage.ro/surse/corsair/rm ... plus-gold/

Can't decide, need some advice why I should pick one over another.

[quest_for_silence]

Inefficient TIM?

The 4790K has inefficient TIM between the die and the IHS.

Can't decide, need some advice why I should pick one over another.

Pick the cheapest (either the Corsair RM650x or the Enermax Platimax 500).

[ThePrussianPrince]

The 4790K has inefficient TIM between the die and the IHS.

Ah ok, got it.

Pick the cheapest (either the Corsair RM650x or the Enermax Platimax 500).

Do the other options not offer anything extra that might be useful? Here's what I've gathered:

Enermax is 600w instead of 650.
RM650x is full modular, whereas the Enermax is semi-modular.
RM650x uses Japanese capacitors, so does the Enermax though. Might be fluff.
be quiet! Straight Power doesn't use Japanese capacitors, only Dark Power Pro does. Again, maybe it doesn't matter and the fan is more important.
Talking about the fan, what should I look for in one? Whether it's ball bearing, sleeve bearing or FDB? So I guess I'll go for FDB, and then sleeve bearing if I can't find that. Not sure if the shorter lifespan of the sleeve bearing is long enough to be fine for many years.
Additionally, I heard be quiet! is the only company that doesn't allow coil whine to make it into their PSUs. Is that correct?

I'm not picking the i series instead of the x for Corsair because it's just Corsair Link that's the difference, right? Which should be pretty useless imo. Actually, nevermind that, it seems the i series uses FDB as a fan which is pretty awesome.

I'm not comfortable just picking whichever is cheapest, I want to know the advantages/disadvantages.

That being said, so far I'm deciding between the Corsair RMx and the RMi. Pretty much the advantage going RMi's way is that it has a better fan (fluid dynamic vs rifle, and it is quieter) and the (useless) Corsair Link software.

I think I've taken the be quiet! one out of the picture because of non-Japanese capacitors, 600w and apparently they don't use fluid dynamic bearings. Also not liking the Enermax due to 600w compared to 650w. So, it seems like the Corsair ones really have quite a few advantages, unless I'm looking at it wrong.

So, the conclusion to the conclusions, I'm going to go with the Corsair RM650i unless someone proves to me that the fluid dynamic bearing is not worth the extra price. This also reminds me of the Fractal Dynamic GP-14 vs Antec True Quiet 140 debate: it appears that the Fractal is a sleeve/FDB mix whereas the Antec is sleeve. I can't find black GP-14's unfortunately, which would match my blackout edition R5. :/

[quest_for_silence]

Do the other options not offer anything extra that might be useful?

Nothing essential.

Enermax is 600w instead of 650.

I pointed out the 500W, not the 600W.

RM650x is full modular, whereas the Enermax is semi-modular.

Not significative, you can't get rid of mb & cpu cable, but...

I'm not comfortable just picking whichever is cheapest, I want to know the advantages/disadvantages.

...broadly speaking, please don't take offense because neither I can help with a PSU crash course, nor I can summarize what I badly learnt about PSUs in the last ten years: not to mention there are better places than a long OT in a threads about fans to talk about that (if you're really interested you might sign in some specialized forum, like for instance jonnyguru.com).

All I can tell you here and now (set aside that all the things you wrote about caps and fans are just... wrong/not exact) is that ALL the quoted PSUs have at least sufficiently high build quality, very good fans, and enough long quiet operation: all of them, you won't be disappointed in any case, never (they're SPCR-like PSUs!).

The two specific options I gave you are mainly representative of two different cooling philosophies: the Enermax (like Be quiet) prefers an always on, low speed, higher quality fan, while the Corsair (like Seasonic and Super Flower) follow an hybrid or semi-passive approach, I mean an enough long fanless operation backed with a more aggressive fan when the heath rises too much.

Usually I prefers the first approach to cooling, though the Corsair is a more modern (2015 vs 2011) and so a clearly better performing (electrically) unit than the older Enermax design (though both are very good units, fully capable to feed an high performance rig).

it seems the i series uses FDB as a fan which is pretty awesome

Corsair states the RMx sports a rifle bearing fan, while the RMi the original matsushita FDB, but all the RMx I saw up to now sported the same RMi fan (that's probably due to the fact they share the same list of materials).

Also not liking the Enermax due to 600w compared to 650w.

AHAHAHA!!! How many W do you think you might need????
With about 400W you might feed a 4.8GHz Core i7 4790 paired with a SLI (two) of GTX 980... usually modern gaming rigs draw 200-250W averagely, but do what you think best, I don't mind.

[ThePrussianPrince]

Corsair states the RMx sports a rifle bearing fan, while the RMi the original matsushita FDB, but all the RMx I saw up to now sported the same RMi fan (that's probably due to the fact they share the same list of materials).

Are you sure? There are plenty of reviews going around and jonnyguru also stating that the RMx series use an inferior fan bearing (rifle), whereas the RMi use FDB. I found this on another site, related specifically to the RM650x: "To reduce the cost Corsair used the rifle bearing type fan in their RMx series where as RMi series have a fluid dynamic bearing fan." Pretty much everywhere else I've looked, it also says the RM650x has a rifle bearing fan.

AHAHAHA!!! How many W do you think you might need????
With about 400W you might feed a 4.8GHz Core i7 4790 paired with a SLI (two) of GTX 980... usually modern gaming rigs draw 200-250W averagely, but do what you think best, I don't mind.

It is still a difference. I never said that it matters now, but if I plan to keep this PSU in the long haul, who knows what the next system might be in this case (though I doubt power draw will be increased in the future that significantly). It's simply more peace of mind, whether necessary or not (99% unnecessary, but hey). There is a benefit to this though. The more W PSU you get, the less the load percentage on the PSU is. So that'd increase the efficiency of the PSU and make it more silent. I'm not wrong, right?

Anyway I just decided to remain with the Corsair RM650i, seems like the best option because of the FDB fan over the RMx and very positive reviews. Ordering that one.

Thanks for the help again!

[quest_for_silence]

Are you sure?

I'm sure about the two units I saw, but that's happened already once in reviews.
So it might happen, though I won't bank on it, nor it's really that plus: let's think, Corsair backed both the RMx/RMi with the same 7-years warranty, they're quite confident those fans should last the same time (and FDB doesn't mean "quieter" than rifle/hydro, often it's true the opposite).

It is still a difference.

No, it doesn't worth a single iota.

I doubt power draw will be increased in the future that significantly

Pascal is expected to be two times more power efficient than Maxwell, which in turn was more (about 40-50% averagely) power efficient than Kepler... so, more probably that not, there's no "future proofing excuse" for your overkill, as 650W is enough for three GTX-980-class cards.

[ThePrussianPrince]

Pascal is expected to be two times more power efficient than Maxwell, which in turn was more (about 40-50% averagely) power efficient than Kepler... so, more probably that not, there's no "future proofing excuse" for your overkill, as 650W is enough for three GTX-980-class cards.

Yeah, I know. But I edited the post to clarify (not sure if you saw it post-edit or before), the load percentage of the PSU affects how efficient and quiet it is, doesn't it? So if you get a lower percentage by buying a higher rated PSU, then why not, even if technically it's overkill to power the system?

[quest_for_silence]

But I edited the post to clarify (not sure if you saw it post-edit or before), the load percentage of the PSU affects how efficient and quiet it is, doesn't it? So if you get a lower percentage by buying a higher rated PSU, then why not, even if technically it's overkill to power the system?

It mainly depends of the expected power draw: at your estimated gaming power draw all the quoted PSUs (regardless the rated power) should operate at their lowest noise levels.

What can *slightly* modify this scenario is the ambient temp, because some units (like the P-660) has a more conservative cooling (aggressive fan) when temp increase a lot (like a very hot summer, or a wrong enclosure, or a wrong placement).

In my opinion your best option was the RM550x, but I guess you would have lost some money, along with the Super Flower Golden Silent, which unfortunately wasn't available on that specific shop.

[ThePrussianPrince]

It mainly depends of the expected power draw: at your estimated gaming power draw all the quoted PSUs (regardless the rated power) should operate at their lowest noise levels.

What can *slightly* modify this scenario is the ambient temp, because some units (like the P-660) has a more conservative cooling (aggressive fan) when temp increase a lot (like a very hot summer, or a wrong enclosure, or a wrong placement).

In my opinion your best option was the RM550x, but I guess you would have lost some money, along with the Super Flower Golden Silent, which unfortunately wasn't available on that specific shop.

Ok, so apparently the RM650i would take over a week to be in stock. I just decided, let's get an RM750i since it's in stock, it's like 10 bucks more anyway so why not. I'm sick of waiting, haha. But yeah, with this I'm also gonna keep my paranoid self safe (the one that thinks about PSU degradation over years and who is worried that it may not be as quiet as the 650i, though it probably will be the same with the load I'm putting on it).

[ThePrussianPrince]

So the PSU arrived, I installed everything. Honestly, the hardest and most annoying part was the CPU cooler part, side panels (putting them back on took aaaaaaaaaages). Something was off with the PSU cutout, either on the case or the PSU itself: one of the screws was off a bit (I'm not talking about the ones you're supposed to use, I think, when you put it upside down).

Regarding the CPU cooler part (NH-D15), oh my... It was so annoying, I hate this. Not to mention the heatsink blocks the CPU header (12V) a lot, which hurt my hands trying to go around it. Everything up to putting on the heatsink was a piece of cake (the backplate, screws and stuff). But putting the heatsink on... it was agonizing. I had to keep moving it around once I put it on the CPU, because I couldn't get the screws to... screw in, because they weren't getting into the holes.

Once everything was built, I booted up the PC and voila, first try and everything looked good. Now, I had 2 issues though...

1. I used rubber gromments on the HDD's plus screws, to secure them. This seems like, as mentioned by Steve and quest_for_silence before, makes the WD Black annoying when it's ticking (the writing). That was kind of to be expected.

2. Something I didn't expect (but may as well have after the difficult mounting of the heatsink onto the CPU) is that the system seems to be freezing sometimes. Yes, it's freezing and then unfreezing like a second later. It seems like there is a massive jump in temperatures sometimes, so probably the heatsink is mispositioned or the paste went weird. Le sigh, thanks NH-D15. Despite how powerful you are, you're so annoying to maneuver (and the reviews say it's so easy to do as well).

Also, some tips with the side panels? I just randomly managed to put them back on but it took ages... Either the front doesn't go in, or the back doesn't, or the top of the sidepanels, or the bottom... There's always something.

[quest_for_silence]

(I'm not talking about the ones you're supposed to use, I think, when you put it upside down).

Why did you do so?

2. Something I didn't expect (but may as well have after the difficult mounting of the heatsink onto the CPU) is that the system seems to be freezing sometimes. Yes, it's freezing and then unfreezing like a second later. It seems like there is a massive jump in temperatures sometimes

Unlikely: is your one a fresh OS install?

Also, some tips with the side panels? I just randomly managed to put them back on but it took ages... Either the front doesn't go in, or the back doesn't, or the top of the sidepanels, or the bottom... There's always something.

Please post some pics, it's a bit hard to get what you mean: those panels should latch rather easily.

[ThePrussianPrince]

Why did you do so?

Do what? I didn't put it upside down, I'm saying I didn't use the screw holes for when you put it upside down. I used the ones you're supposed to, but one of them was really hard to get in (even tried unscrewing the others and screwing this one first). It barely fit in, the screw is at a slight angle and scratched the paint off. The PSU's fan is facing down, and pulling in air from outside the case so as not to interfere with the case cooling. Kind of annoying that either the PSU or the case manufacturer is slightly off regarding the screw holes.

Unlikely: is your one a fresh OS install?

Yeah it is. But I really think it's the CPU cooler thing because it seems to jump up 20-30 C randomly at some points, I'm going to reseat it later today and see what happens. It's such a bitch.

Please post some pics, it's a bit hard to get what you mean: those panels should latch rather easily.

You say they should latch easily, but they are a pain for me. I'll get you a pic once I open it again.

[quest_for_silence]

Kind of annoying that either the PSU or the case manufacturer is slightly off regarding the screw holes.

That looks like rather odd, it shouldn't be so: it would seem (judging your words about that and the side panels issue) your new case may even be somehow bent/damaged (more unlikely it may be so the PSU, but not impossible). Do you have any other PSU to mechanically try there?

But I really think it's the CPU cooler thing because it seems to jump up 20-30 C randomly at some points, I'm going to reseat it later today and see what happens.

Did you tested it on an open air bench (I mean OUT of your new case)?

[ThePrussianPrince]

That looks like rather odd, it shouldn't be so: it would seem (judging your words about that and the side panels issue) your new case may even be somehow bent/damaged (more unlikely it may be so the PSU, but not impossible). Do you have any other PSU to mechanically try there?

It doesn't look bent/damaged. I think I'm going to keep assuming it's user error for the time being. I'm really bad with side panels. Though, the screw holes thing is weird, the fact that 1 of them didn't really want to get in perfectly like the rest.

Did you tested it on an open air bench (I mean OUT of your new case)?

No, I did not. I'm going to reapply the thermal paste and the heatsink, and I'll see what happens. I'll post pics of one side panel and the case cable management (which is horrid, I would say).

I have some test results. I'll post the specs just to be sure:

4790k @ 4.4 GHz 1.25v
NH-D15 dual fan
Noctua NT-H1 TIM

As for the results:

Intel XTU 10 min stress test, with readings from HWMonitor:

Ambient: 27 C
Core 0: 79 C
Core 1: 77 C
Core 2: 72 C
Core 3: 70 C
Package (not sure what this is?): 79 C

Those are the max temps. As for min:

Core 0: 40 C
Core 1: 39 C
Core 2: 35 C
Core 3: 37 C
Package: 41 C

Also, I'm worried about the temperature of the HDDs.

The WD Black is 42 C, Blue is 39 C, and the SSD is 41 C. These are the max values. Otherwise, they seem to be around 39-40, except the Black is pretty much stuck at 42 C. I'm worried about keeping HDDs above 40 C, 30-35 is the sweet spot I believe.

Note that I'm running the stock R5 fans, without changing the way they're mounted, via the fan controller at 5V (lowest). All dust filters are in place as well.

I will see if I can make a special order for the Fractal GP-14 Black to install it as a second intake fan, as they only sell the white version here. I'm OCD like that, and I imagine it will give some much needed cooling to my HDDs.

Ok, new results are in after reapplying the TIM and heatsink. Again, Intel XTU 10 min stress test.

Ambient: 27 C
Core 0: 77 C
Core 1: 77 C
Core 2: 72 C
Core 3: 69 C
Package (not sure what this is?): 77 C

Those are the max temps. As for min:

Core 0: 37 C
Core 1: 36 C
Core 2: 32 C
Core 3: 35 C
Package: 38 C

Also the HDDs are cooler too, interestingly enough. I imagine it's because of the better case temperature, once the heatsink situation got better. Here are the max readings:

WD Black: 38 C
WD Blue: 35 C
Samsung 840 SSD: 38 C

They seem to be better, and more consistent. Still not sure if this is what I should be getting, but seems fine.

Also, here are the side panels and the interior: http://imgur.com/a/0gP3f

Excuse my terrible skills.

EDIT: Nevermind, the temperature is starting to increase for the HDDs. I'm really gonna need that extra fan...

[quest_for_silence]

the temperature is starting to increase for the HDDs. I'm really gonna need that extra fan...

That's just a false belief (another one): up to 50°C those temps are perfectly fine.

[ThePrussianPrince]

That's just a false belief (another one): up to 50°C those temps are perfectly fine.

IIRC, in the Google research, HDDs over 40 C had a significantly shortened lifespan. So, I'm not sure.

[quest_for_silence]

IIRC, in the Google research, HDDs over 40 C had a significantly shortened lifespan.

Sorry but your one is a common misconception; probably you should pay more attention to the sec. 3.4 of that paper: "We first look at the correlation between average temperature during the observation period and failure... The figure shows that failures do not increase when the average temperature increases... We can conclude that at moderate temperature ranges it is likely that there are other effects which affect failure rates much more strongly than temperatures do."

Said differently, within a rated operating temperature range, a disk drive being cooler than specs isn't better, but just cooler (I'd add "pointlessly").

[ThePrussianPrince]

I have an update with more information about the current situation.

1. My GTX 780 died about a month ago. Once Windows booted, after about 5-10 minutes of just staying in Windows (so, not even stressing it with anything) the screen would turn gray/white, PC would become unresponsive, and/or screen would start flickering like crazy. I RMA'd it, and I thought I'd be getting a 970 (because I'd find it hard to believe that they still have 780s around). Turns out that they didn't give me a 970, but instead they just gave me back all the money, so that was fairly surprising (in a positive way). I'm thinking about waiting until June to purchase a 1080 (or whatever it's going to be called) with what I have and add the rest in. So, I'm running off an old HD 5850 at the moment.

2. Nobody in Romania sells the GP-14 black fan. I want the black one because I have a Blackout Edition Fractal R5, which, well, has black GP-14s. The closest I can get it from is Czech Republic, and once you factor in the shipping and extra hassle, it's really not worth it. Now I'm thinking about the Venturi HP-14 PWM Black, though it's fairly expensive it should still match. True Quiet 140, as previously mentioned in the thread, also looks enticing but doesn't match as well due to the yellow part (don't know how it's called) and the color of the fan blades. That puts me off. The question is, what can the Venturi do that the True Quiet 140 can't?

3. With point #2 in mind, I was thinking about moving the rear GP-14 to the front of the case with the Venturi/True Quiet 140 added in as rear fan. It would be interesting to test out whether or not the extra front fan helps much, as quest_for_silence pointed out. I'm also thinking about rotating the HDD cage for potentially better airflow. As you know, I removed the big HDD cage and only kept the smaller one but I'm thinking that this rotation should optimize airflow further as well.

Anyway post your thoughts. I think my mind is pretty set on the Venturi, but if you can sway me to another product that would be welcome as well.

EDIT: I was also contemplating Polaris (if it comes out then) but it's out of the question because AMD has head the cursor corruption issue for what, 10 years now? And they still haven't fixed it. Ever since I switched back to my HD 5850, I've been getting it every 2-3 days or so. It's frustrating, to say the least, and it's the single reason that keeps me away from AMD cards because they are unable to solve this issue.

[quest_for_silence]

The question is, what can the Venturi do that the True Quiet 140 can't?

The HP-14 is a 1500rpm high end PWM FDB fan, the True Quiet 140 is an 800rpm mid end, voltage controlled, sleeve bearing fan.
I think they're fairly different, with different goals and they need fairly different headers.
Take note that the HP-14 is not black, but dark gray (though I don't know how much black is the GP-14).
Eventually, did you check Amazon.de for the GP-14 black?

3. With point #2 in mind, I was thinking about moving the rear GP-14 to the front of the case with the Venturi/True Quiet 140 added in as rear fan.

Personally I would rather an humble, all black Scythe Slipstream in that rear position: cheaper, quieter, and so better.

[ThePrussianPrince]

The HP-14 is a 1500rpm high end PWM FDB fan, the True Quiet 140 is an 800rpm mid end, voltage controlled, sleeve bearing fan.
I think they're fairly different, with different goals and they need fairly different headers.
Take note that the HP-14 is not black, but dark gray (though I don't know how much black is the GP-14).
Eventually, did you check Amazon.de for the GP-14 black?

I managed to find the English version of Amazon, and found both Fractals here:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00TYN3 ... _i=desktop
http://www.amazon.de/Fractal-Design-Ven ... 14+fractal

Now as mentioned before, I can get the HP-14 here, but not the GP-14. Anyway, both seem similar enough color wise for me. HP-14 is FDB, whereas GP-14 is hydraulic so I'd imagine HP-14 is slightly better in that regard. HP-14 is probably more suited as a CPU cooler fan or something, but should still work adequately as a case fan I'd imagine?

PS: When trying to ship to Romania, it says: "This seller does not ship to Romania". So, I guess that won't work.

Personally I would rather an humble, all black Scythe Slipstream in that rear position: cheaper, quieter, and so better.

It's much cheaper and it's black, which is nice. However, I can only find the 120 version here, and it's ball bearings which I'm not a fan of. FDB is what I want, or something similar. I should've been more specific.

The question is... Are any of these case fans enough (or rather, any of them not fit for the job) to cool the system I have, considering overclocks? And again, planning on getting the 1080 when it's out, I'd imagine less power draw than a 980/980 Ti so should be easier to cool.

[Abula]

I'd imagine less power draw than a 980/980 Ti so should be easier to cool.

I would asume also.... but you never know, its a new architecture.... not always ends up more efficient, we will know in june.

[ThePrussianPrince]

I'd imagine less power draw than a 980/980 Ti so should be easier to cool.

I would asume also.... but you never know, its a new architecture.... not always ends up more efficient, we will know in june.

Yeah, the 2 months or so will be a bit painful until June, for me. I really hope the new ones will be worth it, they should at least be better in terms of price/performance than the last gen though, I'd imagine. Otherwise, there'd be no point.

I really hope it won't be a paper launch and they'll actually be available in stores in June, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.