Silent PC build - first time

[hochichi668]

I guess the point isn't taken

Yeah, if you run Prime95 on both, one will max out in the vicinity of 35W and the other in the vague range of 65W. Now ask, what could you possibly be doing app-wise to run these CPUs as hard as Prime95?

..and if you aren't, then they will follow in close lockstep in performance and power use up until you reach the max performance limit of the T part.

No, that's exactly how I read you, so the point was taken. Prior to your comment, I mistakenly thought a CPU at 35W and a CPU at 65W would be like lightbulbs, each running at a certain constant power.

[quest_for_silence]

I don't follow you on the T series remark. I thought they were undervolted.

No, they're just underclocked.

And as to that: lower power consumption isn't so bad.

At same speeds power consumption is exactly the same, at the highest speeds (those the T-SKU can't attain) your mileage may vary: I'm pretty confident it should be rather close but with appropriate undervolting you could end up lower than a stock T (as even Intel said, the TDP is meant more as a cooling solution indicator than as a power draw spec/requirement).

The mobo above has a favorable review on this site from just a month or two back:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1497-page1.html

I don't call it a favourable review: set aside some questionable temp/power figures under load, a) actually SPCR gave the award to the other board; b) about yout board, paraphrasing SPCR conclusion: "...Our i7-6700K processor at stock speeds buckled under the pressure when taxed with... a combination of heavy duty real world applications... the issue... puts the Z170N-WIFI's very existence into question...".

[hochichi668]

I don't call it a favourable review: set aside some questionable temp/power figures under load, a) actually SPCR gave the award to the other board; b) about yout board, paraphrasing SPCR conclusion: "...Our i7-6700K processor at stock speeds buckled under the pressure when taxed with... a combination of heavy duty real world applications... the issue... puts the Z170N-WIFI's very existence into question...".

Ah. You're right about the 'recommended' status. Looks like it was given only to the other board.

At the same time, for testing they were using an i7-6700K. I wonder if an i5-6600 would run into problems at heavy load. Also the bit about its 'very existence' being called into question - in context - seems to be about the impossibility of using it for overclocking. That by itself wouldn't be an issue as far as I was concerned.

Supposing I followed your suggestion and went with an Asus or ASRock H170-style board: what would you recommend? I'd like to stick with the mITX form factor for the time being.

[quest_for_silence]

I wonder if an i5-6600 would run into problems at heavy load.

I don't understand your remark: the board power circuitry is unable to support a CPU which it should support by default, without any issue, and seemingly you just think "Who cares?"...
Why would you want to buy an underrated board?

That by itself wouldn't be an issue as far as I was concerned.

Set aside the Z170 is meant for oc'ing, otherwise it's nearly identical to the H170, and it's priced at premium for that over the H170 (so that I wonder why you should pay a premium you don't need and you won't get in any case), but at any rate I think the review may give you some insight.
For instance, if you look at the cooling@load table you might note that: a) the chipset temperature at a just 116W power draw is noticeably higher than other boards' ones drawing up to 34W more (poor cooling); b) the more refined G5 peaked as the hottest per VRM temperature, though heatsinked (the WiFi don't even have a proper sensor on its unheatsinked VRM).
As above, I wonder why purchasing such an underrated board with: a) sub-par fan controls; b) sub-par power circuitry; b) sub-par cooling, and then use it in a fanless system, which will be hotter on its own.

Supposing I followed your suggestion and went with an Asus or ASRock H170-style board: what would you recommend?

If you need a wi-fi equipped board, I'd check both the ASRock H170M-ITX/ac and the ASUS H170I-Plus D3 about pricing/manual/reviews.

[Abula]

Supposing I followed your suggestion and went with an Asus or ASRock H170-style board: what would you recommend? I'd like to stick with the mITX form factor for the time being.

Im a little confused, you want an ATX case to run a mini ITX mobo?

[hochichi668]

I wonder if an i5-6600 would run into problems at heavy load.

I don't understand your remark: the board power circuitry is unable to support a CPU which it should support by default, without any issue, and seemingly you just think "Who cares?"...
Why would you want to buy an underrated board?

I haven't indicated that I want or am wedded to this particular board. But based on the review and your comments, my question still more or less stands: if the board has problems supporting the fastest chip (i7-6600K) at full load - would this translate into problems with a less demanding chip that, as Steve says above, would never reach Prime95 levels of load in any real-world situation? This is not a 'defense' of the mobo; it's an informational question.

Set aside the Z170 is meant for oc'ing, otherwise it's nearly identical to the H170, and it's priced at premium for that over the H170 (so that I wonder why you should pay a premium you don't need and you won't get in any case), but at any rate I think the review may give you some insight.
For instance, if you look at the cooling@load table you might note that: a) the chipset temperature at a just 116W power draw is noticeably higher than other boards' ones drawing up to 34W more (poor cooling); b) the more refined G5 peaked as the hottest per VRM temperature, though heatsinked (the WiFi don't even have a proper sensor on its unheatsinked VRM).

As above, I wonder why purchasing such an underrated board with: a) sub-par fan controls; b) sub-par power circuitry; b) sub-par cooling, and then use it in a fanless system, which will be hotter on its own.

The price premium is a compelling argument. I take your point that given the review there are problems with the board under certain conditions. My simple question is whether I'd ever encounter those conditions. But if there's a savings going with an H170, then all things being equal there's no need to find out.

As for why even consider this board: whatever the problems discovered in this review running the fastest chip at heavy load, a) I haven't encountered any damning reviews of the board anywhere else with consumer reviews generally favorable; b) I've seen this mobo in at least one working build - the MakerBeam DIY case build linked to previously. That means a lot for someone doing this for the first time. Getting a different mobo to play nice with the giant Nofen cooler worries me when I haven't seen it done at least once successfully already.

If you need a wi-fi equipped board, I'd check both the ASRock H170M-ITX/ac and the ASUS H170I-Plus D3 about pricing/manual/reviews.

Will take a look. Thanks for the recommendations.

[hochichi668]

Im a little confused, you want an ATX case to run a mini ITX mobo?

Hi - They talked me out of that (ATX case) a while back. Cheers.

[hochichi668]

After looking at a lot of mobos, I find myself leaning toward the Asus Z170i Pro Gaming mITX. It seems like most of the other H170s and Z170s I've looked at suffer from a variety of problems, whether WI-FI issues, Windows 7/10 compatibility issues, audio issues, and so on. Also, I'd like to get some sort of USB 3.1 for a bit of future-proofing. (I'd prefer Type C, but this board with Type A seems to be the best I can find.)

Of course, there's a snag. While the pcpartpicker.com website lists the Asus Z170i as compatible with a Nofen CR-95C cooler, the Z170i is not listed on the Nofen website (last updated November 2015).

I'd like to determine whether the Z170i can be used with the CR-95C. I'm not quite sure how to do it. I've been looking at the motherboard layout, but am not smart enough to tell:

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA ... UM_WEB.pdf

Assuming short memory (~31mm), can you fine experts tell me in your opinion if anything would be blocked or if the cooler wouldn't fit for some reason?

[Edit: QuietPC says a 92mm clearance radius is needed around the center of the CPU socket which makes sense given the Nofen's dimensions. But I'm having a hard time visualizing how this can fit on ANY mITX board. Thanks.]

[edh]

It depends on the case but the NoFan will work with the motherboard itself. Whether or not it will work with the case, that's another question. If you take a high res picture of the motherboard and scale off the dimensions then you should be able to calculate the clearence for the cooler.

Why are you so committed to the NoFan though?

I have the Z170i Pro Gaming and it is a good motherboard.

[hochichi668]

It depends on the case but the NoFan will work with the motherboard itself. Whether or not it will work with the case, that's another question. If you take a high res picture of the motherboard and scale off the dimensions then you should be able to calculate the clearence for the cooler.

Why are you so committed to the NoFan though?

I have the Z170i Pro Gaming and it is a good motherboard.

Thanks for the reply. I'm committed to the NoFan because a) I want a fanless build; b) I don't want any overheating issues. I might have tried the CR-80EH but for that reason.

As far as the motherboard goes - is there any chance in your opinion that the NoFan cooler will run out of room when it comes to the USB/HDMI/etc ports? It looks like they're within the 92mm radius. Maybe the NoFan is tall enough that it would clear them - ?

Re: case - I'll probably be going with an openair chassis. If the mITX board in question will work, the case won't be an issue.

[quest_for_silence]

my question still more or less stands: if the board has problems supporting the fastest chip (i7-6600K) at full load - would this translate into problems with a less demanding chip that, as Steve says above, would never reach Prime95 levels of load in any real-world situation? This is not a 'defense' of the mobo; it's an informational question.

My question was informational too, an so why someone would want to buy any "defective by design" item... said that, my answer is likely, more probably that not you may encounter issues due to the nature of this problem.
The mobo power circuitry won't cope the load, and that's also due to thermal limits: if you worsen the surrounding ambient temp, as in the proposed fanless system, then you reduce the power circuitry thermal limit, so that even a somewhat less demanding load (like a Core i5) would trigger throttling (and the CPU itself would buckle), somehow reducing also long term board reliability.

I experienced this kind of issue lots of times, as I usually set rigs on an open air benchtable: when I finally put those rigs into the case, more than once I had to revise the setup due to just the increased ambient temperature.

That means a lot for someone doing this for the first time. Getting a different mobo to play nice with the giant Nofen cooler worries me when I haven't seen it done at least once successfully already.

If I were you I'd just ask to the manufacturer's customer support how tall are the VRM heatsink: whether they are up to 32mm tall, you should be playing safe. And, at any rate, I'd order any problematic item from resellers with "no objection" policies to customers' requests (as Amazon EU does here in Italy, for instance).

[quest_for_silence]

is there any chance in your opinion that the NoFan cooler will run out of room when it comes to the USB/HDMI/etc ports?

They have standard casing, because they have to fit those standard back I/O shields.

[Abula]

Just plan ahead if you are using the NoFan95,

1) get standard height memory, higher will not fit.
2) crosscheck the back of the motherboard dont have any chips that might not allow the backpltate to sit even.
3) in my case, it was superhard to get anything connected after the heatsink was on, specially things like motherboard / case connectors, i had to buy an extension so i can plug them before i install the heatsink (this will depend on the motherboard)

You can see my build on signature "cammi".

What case are you planning on?

[hochichi668]

is there any chance in your opinion that the NoFan cooler will run out of room when it comes to the USB/HDMI/etc ports?

They have standard casing, because they have to fit those standard back I/O shields.

Sorry, I don't understand.

[hochichi668]

Just plan ahead if you are using the NoFan95,

1) get standard height memory, higher will not fit.
2) crosscheck the back of the motherboard dont have any chips that might not allow the backpltate to sit even.
3) in my case, it was superhard to get anything connected after the heatsink was on, specially things like motherboard / case connectors, i had to buy an extension so i can plug them before i install the heatsink (this will depend on the motherboard)

You can see my build on signature "cammi".

What case are you planning on?

Thanks for the tips. Am considering an open-air build using MakerBeam.

[edh]

The info I have on the CR-95C is that it allows 40mm RAM clearance. This isn't the lowest of all CPU coolers but as stated before by others, stick to non-fancy sticks of RAM. Anything with skyhigh heatspreaders will not work. The DDR4 standard is 31.25mm PCB which is just fine.

The diameter of the CR-95C is 180mm which will overlap the edges of MiniITX of course. The CPU centre on the Z170i Pro Gaming is 90mm from the back edge and 70mm from the top edge.

[hochichi668]

The info I have on the CR-95C is that it allows 40mm RAM clearance. This isn't the lowest of all CPU coolers but as stated before by others, stick to non-fancy sticks of RAM. Anything with skyhigh heatspreaders will not work. The DDR4 standard is 31.25mm PCB which is just fine.

The diameter of the CR-95C is 180mm which will overlap the edges of MiniITX of course. The CPU centre on the Z170i Pro Gaming is 90mm from the back edge and 70mm from the top edge.

The RAM should be fine. My concern continues to be the I/O area. The WLAN and the audio jacks look the tallest. But there may be other problems. I simply can't tell if the CR95C will fit on to this:

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_imag ... 0x1024.jpg

[hochichi668]

Here's a photo with a different mobo but similar I/O suggesting it would clear it - but just barely:

http://www.eteknix.com/nofan-cr-95c-ice ... -review/7/

The i/o of the Asus is here:

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z170I ... G/gallery/

[hochichi668]

This image would also suggest it would *probably* clear it:

http://www.forcca.com/xe/files/attach/i ... 289530.jpg

[edh]

Use this image:
https://www.asus.com/media/global/produ ... nd_500.png

You know the motherboard dimensiosn to be 170mm x 170mm so take a ruler to your screen and calculate the height of the ports on the back from the PCB. I will not do this for you but it is very easy to find.

[quest_for_silence]

is there any chance in your opinion that the NoFan cooler will run out of room when it comes to the USB/HDMI/etc ports?

They have standard casing, because they have to fit those standard back I/O shields.

Sorry, I don't understand.

The ATX I/O shield has a standardized height, any board have to clear it (moreover the GB wi-fi module is higher than the I/O ports).

[hochichi668]

Use this image:
https://www.asus.com/media/global/produ ... nd_500.png

You know the motherboard dimensiosn to be 170mm x 170mm so take a ruler to your screen and calculate the height of the ports on the back from the PCB. I will not do this for you but it is very easy to find.

Not sure that that's conclusive. Suggestive maybe. You see, it's an abstracted shot of the i/o area and not of the actual board. If any of the board is cut off for better marketing aesthetics, it'd throw off the proportions.

Nevertheless, I put the image into Photoshop, scaled it, and it looks like more or less as I thought: 40mm from bottom of the board to just above the top of the WLAN. Now I wonder what effect, if any, having these i/o parts so close to the bottom of the hot cooler would have.

[hochichi668]

The ATX I/O shield has a standardized height, any board have to clear it (moreover the GB wi-fi module is higher than the I/O ports).

I see. But the shield height (even if standardized) won't have a bearing on whether the cooler clears the jacks. Shield height, I would think, is always at least slightly taller than the max height of the tallest jacks (here WLAN and audio jacks). But the CR95-C only has to clear the height of the WLAN. I won't be using any shield.

The three vertical audio ports look like they're a standard configuration and therefore standard height. In photos of other mobos, it looks like the NoFen can clear three vertical audio ports. Of course, the WLAN is slightly taller by (I think) 1-3mm. So it's cutting it close.

[edh]

Now I wonder what effect, if any, having these i/o parts so close to the bottom of the hot cooler would have.

It'll be fine.

[quest_for_silence]

the WLAN is slightly taller by (I think) 1-3mm. So it's cutting it close.

As said...

...(moreover the GB wi-fi module is higher than the I/O ports).

...and the CR-95C has to clear it too:



Said that, I don't fully get you: you are no afraid to build a case really from scratch, but the mere possibility to send back an incompatible part (if you should ever do that) scares you that much? Anyway, have a good luck and enjoy your upcoming build.

[hochichi668]

...and the CR-95C has to clear it too:

Said that, I don't fully get you: you are no afraid to build a case really from scratch, but the mere possibility to send back an incompatible part (if you should ever do that) scares you that much? Anyway, have a good luck and enjoy your upcoming build.

Good. That's what I was looking for. If it clears the ports on other boards, chances are good it'll clear the Pro Gaming as well.

As for being scared of product returns: Like you, I live in Italy. That means waiting around for six months for a component to be delivered, and another six months if you send it back. I want this thing done before 2017.

Cheers.

[quest_for_silence]

As for being scared of product returns: Like you, I live in Italy.

Buy the board from Amazon EU, in case 3 working days would be enough.

Best wishes!

[hochichi668]

Hello, folks -

For any who might stumble across this thread in a similar circumstance, I thought I'd post a follow-up.

A week or two ago, I built my first computer - a silent PC - along the lines of what was being discussed in this thread. It's been a learning experience. The hardware I finally went with:

i5-6600
ASUS Pro Gaming Z170 motherboard
Seasonic 520W power supply
Samsung 500GB EVO SSD
NoFan CR95C Black Pearl heatsink

Putting it together, even for a first-timer like me with a mild hangover - was a cinch. It went surprisingly well. I have the MOBO mounted via nylon spacers to a piece of black acrylic 'plexiglass' which I had cut to ATX size. The plexiglass has screw holes for some basic legs to get it up off the tabletop.

I went with the full ATX sized mobo because I didn't want to be cut out of the graphics card market. And now to my surprise, this summer looks like a decent one for buying GPUs. I'll probably pick up a budget-friendly Polaris 10 of some kind in a couple months when they're out.

I couldn't be happier with the CPU and the motherboard. Boot-up time is phenomenal. I have both Ubuntu 16.04 and Windows 10 installed. I can boot into either in what feels like no time.

I am able to do some basic older games and have them run well with the onboard graphics. Portal 2 and Wasteland 2 are both running fine in Windows - smooth and at decent quality.

The NoFan, to my surprise, is like a dream. Running a temperature monitor on all four cores shows basically room temperature for any normal computing. Right now, for example, nothing gets higher than 28 or 29C. Sometime soon I plan to do an overnight stress test with Prime95 to see how it stands up.

The only disappointment so far in the whole process - apart from the operating systems (both have their drawbacks) - is the Seasonic power supply.

For 2-3 days, it was dead silent. I was quite pleased because it's a solid piece of equipment, nicely boxed, all around good quality. But before long, a sort of high-pitched whine started to appear. At first, if I just pushed my finger down on top of the supply or gently picked it up, the noise would go away. So I thought maybe the screws were vibrating or something to do with the power supply's outer shell was to blame. But now, the noise is constant whether I touch the supply or not. Googling around, I see there is such a thing as 'coil whine', which has even been discussed on this forum.

Though I'm about 2 meters away from it, it's bothersome. To hear it clearly, you need to be 1-2 feet away from it. But the problem is, once you've listened to it, you're sort of trained to hear it, and now I can hear it faintly even though I'm sitting far away.

I hate the thought of sending the thing back since there's no guarantee a replacement would do any better. At the same time, those first couple days of pure silence were golden. So hard to say. If the problem worsens, I may have no choice but to send it back.

So that's it. I'm quite happy with the open-air tray set-up, the CPU/mobo combo, the chance to put in a new gfx card in a couple months, and so on. If the power supply business were sorted out, it'd be PC heaven at least as far as my needs are concerned.

Cheers. And thanks to everyone in this thread who chipped in with advice.