Silent PC build - first time

[hochichi668]

Hello, folks. Had a quick question or two. I want to build a silent (fanless) PC. I've upgraded RAM and swapped out HDs before - easy stuff - but this'll be my first-time build from the ground up.

Let me tell you what I'm interested in, and get your thoughts.

Case: Fractal Define R5 or maybe the S.
CPU: i5 6600 (65W).
RAM:16GB (2x8 GB) DDR4 RAM.
HD: 256 GB Samsung SM951 M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.
GPU: Palit Geforce GTX 750 Ti Kalmx Silent 2GB GDDR5 Card
Pwr: FSP Aurum AU-500FL Xilenser 500W Fanless Modular 80+ Gold PSU
Cooler: Nofan CR-95C Copper IcePipe 95W Fanless CPU Cooler

I've looked at Aleutia, QuietPC builds, and others, and it seems like I'd save 100-200 euros (am in Europe) building it myself.

I'm on an old Core 2 Duo laptop that still runs like a champ. But I'm sick of fan noise and need a silent (not just quiet) PC for podcasting and for personal preference. I'm a sort of pro user that does a lot of audio editing, photoshopping, etc. I'm not a big gamer, but wouldn't mind having a GPU for a change if only to try out some games from a few years ago.

I'd like a new machine that actually *feels* faster in order to justify to myself the replacement. I also want a machine that's pretty future proof as it'll be another 5-7 years before I replace a new one.

Any obvious mistakes in the proposed build above? Anything I need to know? One big thing that makes me nervous is the cooler/motherboard/case compatibility. The giant Nofan cooler I think is going to be a headache. I haven't listed a motherboard above because I don't know yet what would work best with the CPU and cooler choice. Any advice there would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.

You'll want to set up two case fan profiles with whatever mobo you select, one for podcasting and one for gaming. The former turns off/minimizes the fan rpm, the latter provides airflow over the gfx card and keeps the case/other temps reasonable. The KalmX 750 Ti can get pretty warm during gaming without any airflow.

M.2 SSDs: The upside is really fast performance, size, and coolness factor. The downsides are noticably increased boot time over SATA, most apps seldom see a significant boost in performance over the SATA SSD brother, the memory controller can get hot and throttle, increased price over SATA version.

gfx card: what are the older games you want to play? It may be that the Skylake iGP can handle them at a moderate resolution and quality settings.

[hochichi668]

Thanks for the informative reply. When you say fan profiles, do you mean in BIOS?

Also - I was surprised to read that M.2s are slower in booting than comparable SSDs.

Re: games. I've been unable to play any for so long that I'm not even sure what's out there anymore. But I'm sure that my current machine can't handle it. I was able to play through Skyrim on medium-to-low quality settings. Something like Witcher 3 I can't presently do - the machine is hiccuping when it comes to 265 HEVC video.

I'd love a small form factor. But I'm wedded to fanless and the gigantic CR-95 cooler seems to be the only slam dunk out there.

[quest_for_silence]

HD: 256 GB Samsung SM951 M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD.

Hot and expensive: does it worth?

GPU: Palit Geforce GTX 750 Ti Kalmx Silent 2GB GDDR5 Card

Hot, inefficient cooler: a reference card with an Accelero S3 is the way to go.

Pwr: FSP Aurum AU-500FL Xilenser 500W Fanless Modular 80+ Gold PSU

Old-fashioned and underperforming PSU: a Silent Flower 430W would be way better and more efficient.

One big thing that makes me nervous is the cooler/motherboard/case compatibility.

There's no problem with any ATX with conventional mobo heatsinks and x1 first PCIe slot: but with a fanless system something like the InWin Dragon Slayer / BUC is probably better thought. Whether you went for a mATX board, you would need a SLI-compliant board (so mounting the VGA on the most distant slot).

[xan_user]

I'd like a new machine that actually *feels* faster in order to justify to myself the replacement. I also want a machine that's pretty future proof as it'll be another 5-7 years before I replace a new one.

M.2 doesn't really feel any faster than a pro level SSD. you can also bet M.2 standards will change a few times in the next 7 years.

[edh]

Case: Quite a big case for not that much in the way of components. Why do you feel you need ATX? If you only have an M.2 drive and nothing else MiniITX would be fine. If you're on a budget MicroATX might be more suitable. ATX is just a waste of space and raw materials if you're not going to put anything in it.

SSD: That is expensive for an M.2. Anything wrong with buying a cheaper one? The kind of performance jump you'll experience coming from an old system will be so huge that even the cheapest M.2 will be fast enough and not present real world bottlenecks. M.2 can get hot but in real world use this is not a problem.

Graphics card: The 750 is getting on a bit now. What would be wrong with the onboard graphics for your use? At least try the onboard graphics and then wait a few months for next generation Pascal cards to come out if you feel you need to upgrade. If you're using a C2D laptop then you're going to be more than happy with onboard graphics I'd think.

PSU: The FSP is quite expensive for something that you're not going to be stressing that hard. Even with the GTX 750Ti and the most guzzley motherboard you're still going to be <200W during maximum TDP stress test use. Consider the Seasonic SS-400FL2 if fanless is what you need.

CPU cooler: Expensive and kind of pointless if you were to use a much louder fan cooled graphics card. Ninja 4 is a good bet right now.

[CA_Steve]

Thanks for the informative reply. When you say fan profiles, do you mean in BIOS?

Could be in BIOS, if your mobo allows it. Or, could be in their Windows fan s/w.

Also - I was surprised to read that M.2s are slower in booting than comparable SSDs.

It's a YMMV situation, depending on your mobo's BIOS optimization and maybe the OS. If they optimized the PCIe handler, then it'll boot as fast, possibly faster than SATA. If not, then nope. Case in point - SPCR's review of the 950 Pro vs Tech Report's. All in all, I'd go with a 500GB class SATA SSD like the Samsung 850 Evo.

Re: games. I've been unable to play any for so long that I'm not even sure what's out there anymore. But I'm sure that my current machine can't handle it. I was able to play through Skyrim on medium-to-low quality settings. Something like Witcher 3 I can't presently do - the machine is hiccuping when it comes to 265 HEVC video.

Witcher 3 is a GPU resource pig. At 1080p, A GTX 960 will get 49fps with High settings and 60 at medium. If you want to game, don't much around with a fanless card. The current gen 9xx fanned cards stop them for 2D/low utilization apps. Go with something like the MSI GTX 960 Gaming or Asus Strix.

[edh]

It's a YMMV situation, depending on your mobo's BIOS optimization and maybe the OS. If they optimized the PCIe handler, then it'll boot as fast, possibly faster than SATA. If not, then nope. Case in point - SPCR's review of the 950 Pro vs Tech Report's. All in all, I'd go with a 500GB class SATA SSD like the Samsung 850 Evo.

In some instances now M.2 drives are cheaper. This will only become more prevalent in time as there is less physically to the drives. It may take a while to switch but consider that when SATA was first introduced some people wrote it off as the drives were more expensive and actually slower than the IDE drives of the time. I also remember a topic here within the last decade where someone was quite confident that SATA drives were not as quiet as IDE drives.

M.2 also brings great advantages in terms of space. The drives are tiny and eradicate 2 cables from your system versus a SATA drive. This for me is enough of an advantage in itself to justify it.

[quest_for_silence]

This for me is enough of an advantage in itself to justify it.

OT: would you pay a sizable premium for?

[CA_Steve]

Yeah, looks like the pricing flipped or is similar on the Samsung 950 Pro and 850 Evo models, where the M.2 version is slightly less or just slightly more than the 2.5" drive. If you are space limited, then sure, go M.2. I'm just wary to recommend them when the space is available for a 2.5" drive. I hoping the next gen will do a better job with the controller temps. I'm also the guy that recommends waiting 3 months after release to buy a new mobo to let the bugs mature out.

[edh]

OT: would you pay a sizable premium for?

A 5% premium maybe. The fact I got it cheaper by a matter of pence made it obvious.

Yeah, looks like the pricing flipped or is similar on the Samsung 950 Pro and 850 Evo models, where the M.2 version is slightly less or just slightly more than the 2.5" drive. If you are space limited, then sure, go M.2. I'm just wary to recommend them when the space is available for a 2.5" drive. I hoping the next gen will do a better job with the controller temps.

I think the temperatures are overemphasised. There is nothing wrong with a few chips on a PCB doing 70C and all of the drives will have a higher throttle temp to prevent damage. This throttling might impact you if you're repeatedly copying 100GB files whilst sitting in a sauna but for normal desktop use it's irrelevant. When summer comes round I'm thinking of having a look at it in more detail and seeing if a set of small memory heatsinks makes much different to the temps.

[hochichi668]

Lots of helpful info here - thanks. I took the components list, more or less, from QuietPC.com, and figured if they're doing builds with it, the parts are compatible. But it sounds like there are better options.

Since an M.2 isn't a big jump performance-wise, I'll take another look at SSD.

Regarding the case - I'd be happy with a smaller one. My main concern not having done this before was ventilation - and fitting the gigantic Nofan cooler in. A silent build is my non-negotiable. Graphics card takes a backseat to that. If I can 'turn off' the graphics card at will, though, I might be all for getting a decent one for gaming.

Is it as simple as disabling the graphics card (e.g. Device Manager) when not playing games? Are there OS-related reasons why this wouldn't work?

[quest_for_silence]

Regarding the case - I'd be happy with a smaller one. My main concern not having done this before was ventilation - and fitting the gigantic Nofan cooler in.

You may use any of the smaller ones NoFen also rebadges as their own cases: the NoFan CS-30, the Silverstone FT03 and the InWin Dragon Slayer.
You may also use a large cubic case, similar to the Thermaltake V21.
Without the discrete graphics you might also go mITX with enclosures like the Fractal Core 500, Thermaltake V1 or the Cooler Master Elite 110.

Is it as simple as disabling the graphics card (e.g. Device Manager) when not playing games? Are there OS-related reasons why this wouldn't work?

What's the reason to look for workarounds? Modern cards don't need to be disabled to be silent in 2D.

[edh]

Regarding the case - I'd be happy with a smaller one. My main concern not having done this before was ventilation - and fitting the gigantic Nofan cooler in. A silent build is my non-negotiable.

The Nofan cooler won't necessarily give you a silent build. If you've still got fans on anything else then it's kind of pointless. What's wrong with a big tower heatsink and a fan that's only spinning at 300rpm? It'll be insignificant compared to the noise of the graphics card and the case fans. Nofan coolers aren't actually that popular on SPCR as they do have compromises on size and weight and often result in case fan speeds having to spin faster to compensate.

Here is what I have which shows that a small system with a big heatsink can work better than a larger system:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68832

Is it as simple as disabling the graphics card (e.g. Device Manager) when not playing games? Are there OS-related reasons why this wouldn't work?

I'm afraid that won't work. With many modern graphics cards the fan will stop when under low load but you have got to be wary of those that start up quite aggressively. Sometimes they start up of their own accord when you don't expect it which isn't good.

Not sure of the need for a graphics card for what you have described so far so perhaps leave it out of the initial build and buy a next generation card if you end up needing it?

[CA_Steve]

Gfx card: slight misunderstanding. I wasn't talking about disabling the gfx card. Many of the current gen cards have fan profiles that stop the fan for low GPU loads such as all 2D applications and light 3D loads. So, it'll effectively be passive for your podcast recording and pretty much anything other than gaming.

[hochichi668]

As I said above, my primary goal is a silent PC. But if I can get a graphics card that'll allow me to play some games (the newer the better) naturally then I'm for it.

Certainly, I can hold off on getting a GPU and may do that.

On a different point: I sort of like the look of this DIY MakerBeam case solution:

http://www.fanlesstech.com/2016/02/make ... build.html

Anybody have any experience with MakerBeam?

@CA_Steve: Thanks for that info. Here's a question though: would a Gfx card fan ever kick in on account of being in a warm case?

[Abula]

Personally i never ever heard my MSI GTX750Ti, even under load, the fan are always on, but very low and inside the case its hard hear them at all. Or as other have recommended the Accelero S3 is a good option for going fanless or with a very low rpm fan also.

[CA_Steve]

@CA_Steve: Thanks for that info. Here's a question though: would a Gfx card fan ever kick in on account of being in a warm case?

Maybe the real question is: Will your non-gaming apps ever significatly heat up the case?

Podcasting: No. Low cpu/gpu utilization, so near idle power use. Somewhere in the 30-40W range.

Browsing websites, streaming video, MS Office, etc: No.

Photoshop: No. High CPU and some GPU utilization for short bursts of time with the rest in idle while you ponder the next edit. Corner condition:If you have batch routines in Lightroom or something, then it can warm up the case. Will this warm up the case enough to trigger the gfx card fans? Probably not. Hard to say. Figure the case temp would need to rise 20C or more. Or, Photoshop is making significant use of the gpu...which it doesn't.

[hochichi668]

@CA_Steve: Thanks for that info. Here's a question though: would a Gfx card fan ever kick in on account of being in a warm case?

Maybe the real question is: Will your non-gaming apps ever significatly heat up the case?

Podcasting: No. Low cpu/gpu utilization, so near idle power use. Somewhere in the 30-40W range.

Browsing websites, streaming video, MS Office, etc: No.

Photoshop: No. High CPU and some GPU utilization for short bursts of time with the rest in idle while you ponder the next edit. Corner condition:If you have batch routines in Lightroom or something, then it can warm up the case. Will this warm up the case enough to trigger the gfx card fans? Probably not. Hard to say. Figure the case temp would need to rise 20C or more. Or, Photoshop is making significant use of the gpu...which it doesn't.

Of course, that's assuming I'm smart enough to get a decent case with adequate ventilation.

[quest_for_silence]

that's assuming I'm smart enough to get a decent case with adequate ventilation.

Do not mistake "fanless" with "no cooling".

[hochichi668]

that's assuming I'm smart enough to get a decent case with adequate ventilation.

Do not mistake "fanless" with "no cooling".

Naturally.

But that was the reason for my question re: GPU fans. If someone had a crap case or made a few big mistakes with configuration and the inside of the case was hot, my question was whether that could in itself trigger the fan on a gfx card. In which case, an otherwise silent and fanless PC might have the gfx card fan coming on at odd times even when no 3D games were being played.

[quest_for_silence]

If someone had a crap case or made a few big mistakes with configuration and the inside of the case was hot, my question was whether that could in itself trigger the fan on a gfx card.

The bitter answer is "unlikely": to heath a modern GPU over 60-65°C you need it deliver some computing power, you can't heat it just by thermal diffusion. Said that, you know, it never rains, but it pours.

[edh]

But that was the reason for my question re: GPU fans. If someone had a crap case or made a few big mistakes with configuration and the inside of the case was hot, my question was whether that could in itself trigger the fan on a gfx card. In which case, an otherwise silent and fanless PC might have the gfx card fan coming on at odd times even when no 3D games were being played.

In general, yes this is a valid point, fan control on a graphics card is in normally temperature dependent.

What makes a 'crap case' though? It's not going to be the case itself but the amount of heatflow (not the same as airflow) out of it. You are quite likely with the NoFan CPU coolers to get into such a problem as the cooler will dump 65W of heat right in the middle of the case without making a good job of getting heat outside of the case. These coolers are best used in open cases without fans. Close the case up and add fans in to cool the case and they will make a very inefficient job of cooling the CPU. You might have high airflow out of the case but NOT high heatflow as the air will not be worked that hard through the CPU cooler. Add to this that the NoFan coolers are hugely expensive, heavy and ungainly and there are plenty of reasons not to go with them.

In a non-open case a large tower cooler with a fan doing 300rpm will be equally inaudible and give lower temperatures thus requiring lower case fan speeds and being on balance, quieter. It will also leave you with enough money to put an Accelero S3 on the graphics card and do away with that pesky little fan all together, or just run without a graphics card at all for the moment and see how you get on.

[hochichi668]

The bitter answer is "unlikely": to heath a modern GPU over 60-65°C you need it deliver some computing power, you can't heat it just by thermal diffusion. Said that, you know, it never rains, but it pours.

Thanks for that answer.

At the moment, I am leaning toward the following:

✓ Nofan CR-95C CPU cooler
✓ Intel Core i5-6600T
✓ Gigabyte GA-Z170N-WIFI
✓ 500GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD
✓ SEASONIC X-400FL Fanless

May try this RAM if it's short enough to fit under the cooler: Kingston HyperX Fury Kit Memorie DDR4 at 16 GB 2133, 2x8 GB.

GPU I may hold off on for now.

Re: the case - as stupid as it sounds, this is in some ways the hardest thing to choose. I'm never been big on plastic cases, which is why that MakerBeam DIY case concept caught my eye. I like the idea of the MB set horizontally, but at the top of a vertically passive cooling case. Any thoughts on the new config idea or cases?

[hochichi668]

But that was the reason for my question re: GPU fans. If someone had a crap case or made a few big mistakes with configuration and the inside of the case was hot, my question was whether that could in itself trigger the fan on a gfx card. In which case, an otherwise silent and fanless PC might have the gfx card fan coming on at odd times even when no 3D games were being played.

In general, yes this is a valid point, fan control on a graphics card is in normally temperature dependent.

What makes a 'crap case' though? It's not going to be the case itself but the amount of heatflow (not the same as airflow) out of it. You are quite likely with the NoFan CPU coolers to get into such a problem as the cooler will dump 65W of heat right in the middle of the case without making a good job of getting heat outside of the case. These coolers are best used in open cases without fans. Close the case up and add fans in to cool the case and they will make a very inefficient job of cooling the CPU. You might have high airflow out of the case but NOT high heatflow as the air will not be worked that hard through the CPU cooler. Add to this that the NoFan coolers are hugely expensive, heavy and ungainly and there are plenty of reasons not to go with them.

In a non-open case a large tower cooler with a fan doing 300rpm will be equally inaudible and give lower temperatures thus requiring lower case fan speeds and being on balance, quieter. It will also leave you with enough money to put an Accelero S3 on the graphics card and do away with that pesky little fan all together, or just run without a graphics card at all for the moment and see how you get on.

I'm with you. By 'crap' case I meant something not suited to the purpose. I'm quite interested at this point in some sort of open case solution.

Re: noise and fans. There's a fair amount of subjective wiggle-room in between quiet and silent. Many people would say that something that's effectively silent (to them) is silent. For my part, though, I'm only interested in fanless operation at this point. I do podcasting and a little voiceover work, and with a high quality mic at a certain gain setting, it becomes possible to hear background noise like that of a PC fan more clearly through your monitor headphones than with normal ears alone. I can't afford to risk making a purchase based on any subjective assessment. So fanless is the way I want to go - except maybe for gaming, though I may put that idea aside for now.

[quest_for_silence]

✓ Intel Core i5-6600T

It's rather pointless to lean towards a T-SKU: I'm pretty confident that an undervolted, uncrippled CPU would serve you better.

✓ Gigabyte GA-Z170N-WIFI

Sorry for being that "tranchant", but it's more pointless than a T-SKU: it's hot and rather inefficient when hot, pick an ASRock or an ASUS, with an H170 chipset.

Any thoughts on the new config idea or cases?

Are you able to build by yourself from scratch ( http://www.makerbeam.com/ )?

[CA_Steve]

Don't go with the i5-6600T CPU. No benefit over the i5-6600. Both parts will have the SAME power use at similar application loads..which in your case, is pretty low to begin with. And, if you decide to game, you get the benefit of the i5-6600's higher clock rates.

Live mic and PC noise: If you have a supercardioid or hypercardioid mic with a fairly narrow pickup lobe, anything outside of that is greatly attenuated. If your current PC is the laptop on your desk and near the mic, then maybe it's in the mic's lobe...or maybe the fan vibration is transmitting through the desk and picked up by the mic. Just a thought. Having the PC on the floor a meter away and to the rear of the mic will help a lot fanless, or not.

mobo:
- Assuming you go fanless and never game, then the Gigabyte is fine.
- If you also want to game, then you'll want to run case and gfx card fans during that time. Gigabyte's fan control is inferior to the others. Go with Asus for Fan Xpert s/w. I think you can set up mulitple profiles; a silent and a gaming one. [Abula - please confirm with your H170! ]

Case: Again, it comes down to if you want to add a gfx card or not.
- If you don't, then look at the HD-Plex cases or similar. Use the case as the CPU cooler. They'll work fine with the 65W Skylake CPUs.
- If you do, then shy away from the horizontal media center style cases. Airflow tends to suffer.

[hochichi668]

✓ Intel Core i5-6600T

It's rather pointless to lean towards a T-SKU: I'm pretty confident that an undervolted, uncrippled CPU would serve you better.

✓ Gigabyte GA-Z170N-WIFI

Sorry for being that "tranchant", but it's more pointless than a T-SKU: it's hot and rather inefficient when hot, pick an ASRock or an ASUS, with an H170 chipset.

Any thoughts on the new config idea or cases?

Are you able to build by yourself from scratch ( http://www.makerbeam.com/ )?

I don't follow you on the T series remark. I thought they were undervolted. And as to that: lower power consumption isn't so bad. But I am flexible as to the CPU - and a better bang-for-my-buck solution might mean being able to go to a smaller cooler.

The mobo above has a favorable review on this site from just a month or two back:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1497-page1.html

As for the Makerbeam: I'm definitely looking into that (see previous posts).

[hochichi668]

Don't go with the i5-6600T CPU. No benefit over the i5-6600. Both parts will have the SAME power use at similar application loads..which in your case, is pretty low to begin with. And, if you decide to game, you get the benefit of the i5-6600's higher clock rates.

mobo:
- Assuming you go fanless and never game, then the Gigabyte is fine.
- If you also want to game, then you'll want to run case and gfx card fans during that time. Gigabyte's fan control is inferior to the others. Go with Asus for Fan Xpert s/w. I think you can set up mulitple profiles; a silent and a gaming one. [Abula - please confirm with your H170! ]

All right - point taken on the CPU. When I read the specs and see something like 65W for the 6600 and 35W for the 6000T, I should be taking this as maximum power consumption? If so, then that makes a lot of sense.

[CA_Steve]

I guess the point isn't taken

Yeah, if you run Prime95 on both, one will max out in the vicinity of 35W and the other in the vague range of 65W. Now ask, what could you possibly be doing app-wise to run these CPUs as hard as Prime95?

..and if you aren't, then they will follow in close lockstep in performance and power use up until you reach the max performance limit of the T part.