Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup)

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memory_leak
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Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup)

Post by memory_leak » Fri May 13, 2016 7:23 am

Yesterday I happened to find 2 950s pro $60 below the price each; someone has returned them back, and it felt like an offer I can't refuse, so I am now owner of two of those expensive bubblegum sticks.

Now I need to pair them with a competent mobo, which means probably something from z170 line, but I am open to c236 suggestions as well.

My demand:

Support 6700k (I got one also $60 below the price :))
Support gfx1080 once it is out
Support raid 0 on at least 2 nvme drives
Have at least 4 sata ports left (and support raid 1 on each pair).

What I have looked today at are:

MSI Z170A Xpower Gaming Titanium
ASUS P10S WS ATX S-1151
Asrock Z170 Extreme7+
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-SOC FORCE
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-GAMING G1

Now they are in entire price range spectre, from cheap GA UD3 to most expensive G1. What seems to me as a good value is ASRock 7+ and Asus P10S WS (C236 chips). I was actually not able to find any review for ASUS P10S WS which is shame, I think it looks very promising in terms of features vs price.

I will be using air cooler (noctua dh15), so beside price, I am also looking at layout around the cpu socket. For example GA Soc force seems to be done exclusively for watercooled systems, even G1 seems to be the case. I will of course overclock, but I am not looking to beat any benchmark or to compete on best fps around, just something normal maybe up to 4.5Ghz which seems to be standard what anybody gets out from 67K on almost any mobo.

Price is not the biggest issue, I can afford any of those, but I still don't want to purchase things I will never use, so I need advice which one, or maybe other suggestion would suit best my need in regards to demands above.

I also wonder what do you think of runing this with 520 Seasonic psu? Seems lilke gtx1080 power deamnd will be around the current gtx980, and 520W seems enough to power i7 with a single gtx. Not much other stuff will be going in beside those harddrives.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri May 13, 2016 11:00 pm

memory_leak wrote:I need advice which one, or maybe other suggestion would suit best my need in regards to demands above.
I can't help for other options, but among the listed one ASRock and MSI seem to me the safer bets with reference to fan management.

memory_leak wrote:I also wonder what do you think of runing this with 520 Seasonic psu? Seems lilke gtx1080 power deamnd will be around the current gtx980, and 520W seems enough to power i7 with a single gtx.

Seemingly the 1080 should be in the 970 range, but at any rate 520 W is more than enough for any Nvidia card, whatever the OC level.

Abula
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by Abula » Sat May 14, 2016 4:44 am

Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-SOC FORCE
Gigabyte GA-Z170X-GAMING G1
I would avoid either, there are better options in fan control, if you want a feature thats only those boards go for it, else i think your other options are better.
MSI Z170A Xpower Gaming Titanium
Superp looking motherboard, the best spacing for a SLI with triple slots in between, the rest is alright nothing fancy but well design overall. Their fan control is pretty good for PWM fans, using CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2 allows you to control any PWM 4pin fan in increments of 12.5% with 3 breaking points inside the bios, as long as you chose good PWM fans its a good mobo. Where i had issues with MSI on skylake was on their SYS_FAN, where i coudlnt control dynamically the 3pins (as i could with Z87-GD65).
ASUS P10S WS ATX S-1151
I always liked the design of Asus WorkStation mobos, didnt had too good of an experience on sandy bridge with one, but none the less offered very nice features. Go with Asus if you want software fan control, its really good, probably the best in the market, it will allow you to control almost any fan, no matter if its is 3pin or 4pin, all is switchable on the bios depending on the fan. Their Bios fan control seems great on paper, like a mini FanXpert, but it had some bugs on it, at least on my H170 Pro Gaming on bios 0703, none the less the mobo runs great with FanXpert3.
Asrock Z170 Extreme7+
AsRock seems to be a brand that has gotten a lot better over time, from being a value oriented brand to bringing things that other competitors are not doing their best, like consumption, even bios fan control seems to be one of the best atm, with 1% increments to 1C variations, this practically can give you the full range of a PWM fan in pure bios (MSI has 12.5% jumps). I cant say much about them, as im about to test some, i have B150 Pro4 here and H170 Pro4, will see how it does, where i have my doubts is on the CHA_FANs, how does it control the 3pin voltage, to what i have read seems very similar to the PWM (CPU_FAN1), but will see today or tomorrow, if i find something i dont like ill post it. Btw there are other options like the Fatality K4 that also seems to be a good option.
I also wonder what do you think of runing this with 520 Seasonic psu? Seems lilke gtx1080 power deamnd will be around the current gtx980, and 520W seems enough to power i7 with a single gtx. Not much other stuff will be going in beside those harddrives.
The 1080 will draw less than the GTX980Ti, probably even less than the GTX980, seesm its on a single 8pin, which leads me to think will be close to the GTX970, the 520W as Lucas suggest will be more than enough. Personally i would recommend you to go with Fanned PSU, once you introduced one fan, there is no point into going fanless on anything, its best to serarch for quiet operation components, even PSU, Corsair RM550x or BeQuiet DarkPro 11 550 should be very good options for your setup.

memory_leak
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:17 am
Location: schweden

Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by memory_leak » Sat May 14, 2016 7:00 am

Thank you for your avswers, I am really not looking intwo sli setups, I am fine with just one gfx card. I will run only one monitor, not VR gear either and I don't game much either, just ocassional FPS & Starcraft for fun :).
ASUS P10S WS ATX S-1151
I am not sure this motherboard offers ASUS usual fan controls etc, since it is not a consumer grade mobo. On their other WS boards there is not bios/software fan controls as I learned from some review.

Anyway, I am still looking at that one, would just like to know a bit about overclocking, if it is even supported.

Yeah I am aware about fans on psu, but as I read from reviews most of PSUs still don't have much of options when it comes to fan controls; usually fan is off or on, not much of gradation. I had a fanless psu in an old setup, and I put an 12mm noctua exhaust fan behind it that run on very low rpm (800~900rpm) and had never any problem with it, but the fan was inaudible, so I am thinking about doing something like that again.

A store near by does have an extra price on EVGA Supernova G2 I think 750W, but I am unsure if I want it :).

thanks for the answers

Abula
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by Abula » Sat May 14, 2016 8:52 am

memory_leak wrote:I am not sure this motherboard offers ASUS usual fan controls etc, since it is not a consumer grade mobo. On their other WS boards there is not bios/software fan controls as I learned from some review.
I cant say for sure that it does as i dont own it, but a quick look into the official asus support webpage for the motherboard has,
Version 1.01.30
-AISuite3 -ASUS AI Suite 3 V1.01.30 Install Program for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-Ai Charger+ -ASUS Ai Charger+ V3.02.01 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-EZUpdate -ASUS EZ Update V2.01.34 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-Mobo_Connect -ASUS Mobo Connect V1.00.25 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-Push Notice -ASUS Push Notice V1.01.06 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-System Information -ASUS System Information V1.00.22 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-USB 3.1 Boost -ASUS USB 3.1 Boost V1.10.04 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
-USB BIOS Flashback -ASUS USB BIOS Flashback V1.03.07 for Windows 7 32bit & 64bit / 8.1 64bit / 10 64bit.
No signs of FanXpert, but so is my H170 Pro Gaming
Version 1.01.24&3.02.01
ASUS AI Suite 3 V1.01.24 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
Ai Charger+ V3.02.01 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
EZ Update V2.01.28 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
Performance and Power Saving Utilities V1.02.69 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
Push Notice V1.01.06 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
System Information V1.00.22 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
USB 3.0 Boost V1.10.00 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
Mobo_Connect_1.00.15 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
LED_Control V1.00.03 for Windows Win7 32bit & Win7 64bit & Win8.1 64bit & Win10 64bit.
My guess is the mobo has it, but as i said before i cant say for certain. Either way, AsRock or MSI can do very well with PWM fans, so if you want to be sure go with either.

Abula
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by Abula » Sat May 14, 2016 6:04 pm

Just some comments, i manage to get some time today and still in the process of testing on an AsRock H170 Pro4, their bios fan control is the best that i seen, better than Asus or MSI, but not all is perfect, there are some things to take into account.

CPU_FAN1
Its an autosensing header, that means the mobo can sense if its a 3pin or 4pin, and according to what you plug thats how its controlled. I tested the Intel stock CPU cooler (PWM), Thermalright TY147A (PWM), Noctua NF-S12B 700rpm Redux (3pin) and Silverstone AP182 (3pin). All were controllable with in their own range of operation, no issues at all.

CHA_FAN1
Same as the CPU_FAN1, its autosensing and can control either PWM or DC at will on the bios.

CHA_FAN2
its a 4pin, but only can do PWM control, no autoseinng and no voltage control, tested all the fans above.

CHA_FAN3
This is a 3pin, and doesnt even appear on the bios, its a pure 12V or for somone trying to get rpms (for example a pump). Usless to me.

I bought a value motherboard from AsRock, so i cant say how will higher end mobos would work, some even have CPU_FAN1 and CPU_FAN2 and more CHA_FANs, so i dont know if AsRock has the policy of only two autosensing or if its open to more in higher end mobos, i wish all were autosensing though, that would put it on par with Asus switching, that said, still a heck of fan control if you understand the limitations. The no restrictions, 1% vairtions on 1C is amazing, you practically can reach any operation without having the bios restrictions that ASUS has, and to some point MSI also.

memory_leak
Posts: 56
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by memory_leak » Sat May 14, 2016 9:25 pm

I did some more research on both ASRock and Asus mobos and downloaded manuals.

As I see it, Asus offers the usual control of fans as found on their gaming cards, with sliders curve controls etc just as ASRock does. I must say that Asus manual is much, much better looking and more professional than ASRock. ASrocks manual looks like a 8th year old copy-pasted text from the internet, with blurred and totally unreadable images as if they done it just for sake of having a pdf on the web and not really concerned if it is of any use to users (nobody RTFM :-)).

Anyway, when it comes to overclocking it is supported on Asus board as well, but not to same detail level as on ASRock, which is pretty much expected as well. Seems more or less just base clock and voltage + possibility to turn off some usual things like power saving, ht, vt etc. Even worse when it comes to RAM. XMP is not even mentioned, and while there is a myriad of manual settings mentioned, I didn't see option to change ram frequency. It sounds a bit strange to me so it would be nice if someone more knowledgeable than me took a look in the manual. It might be avialable under some acronym that I didn't recognized or simply missed.

ASrock card does support all the overclocking jazz one expect from such a card, does provide 10 sata ports compared to Asus board which provide 8 and also supports raid just as Asus does. The price is relatively close, ASRock costs about $20 more in Sweden, but ads some better phases, capacitors for sound and teaming for network, not that I really care about any of those to be honest. I just wonder how well implemented are those features compared to what is found on Asus, if ASRock has same atitude to functionality as they showed to the fine manual they sport on their site.

Anyway, fan control is not deciding factor, it is just icing on the cake, but it seems that both boards offers same fine level of control anyway.

Now I will have to spend some time to find out a bit more on that RAM thing and on support for Linux, since I don't see any Linux drivers anywhere on respective websites.

If anyone could take a look at the manual of Asus board and tell me a bit more about overclocking settings for RAM and maybe CPU it would be really nice since I do admit I am a bit illiterate at all acronyms:

http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/soc ... 1458292560

quest_for_silence
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by quest_for_silence » Sat May 14, 2016 11:03 pm

memory_leak wrote:Anyway, fan control is not deciding factor

Just a side note: it should be, this is SPCR, noise control is the foundation of quiet computing (moreover it's a linux machine and manufacturers do not offer linux software).

Abula
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by Abula » Sat May 14, 2016 11:40 pm

memory_leak wrote:Anyway, fan control is not deciding factor, it is just icing on the cake, but it seems that both boards offers same fine level of control anyway.
We all value things different, but for many of us here, its really important the fan control, as fans is one of the main sources of noise, but we all have different priorities in our PCs, Asus is a good option on software as long as you are on windows, MSI is good on bios on PWM (DC not so much), AsRock atm seems the best on pure bios (with some limitations), Asus will be very good once they fix their bugs on bios Qfan tunning, until then... ill stick with AsRock and MSI.

memory_leak
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by memory_leak » Sun May 15, 2016 7:29 am

Yeah, dudes, I am quite aware this is about silent PCs, and I promise I am the one who hates noise most of you all. All my PCs ever have been pretty much not audible while still (relatively) powerful machines when it comes to prestanda, and that long before there were such niceties as UEFI and curves to control fans. As I said ability to control fans in bios is nice, but 2XNVME drives in raid 0 is more important than who has nicest curve picture in bios. I can always throw in a fan header in 5.1''. Anyway, let us not argue, as I already found out, both board offers pretty much same fan control, you get very nice curve control, or manual-insert-rpm box, so it really is not a matter which one is better as long as both do a job.

No idea about Asus bugs, it would be interested if someone reviewed their c236 mobo since it is oriented towards enterprise industry for workstations and verified extra for long term operation, bugs etc. To note this is also relatively new motherboard, seems to be released this year, unlike Z170 boards, inclusive Asrock, which are now more than a year old most of them if not more.

Another issue to me is Linux support. Both use same audio chip ALC1150, but Asus uses 2 x Intel 1210 for network, while ASrock uses 1 x Intel I219-V and 1 x Intel I211-AT

I believe all three network chips should be supported, but best to check it up before buying.

Abula
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Re: Need advice for mobo (raid 0 2x.M.2 + raid 1 4xhdd setup

Post by Abula » Sun May 15, 2016 8:33 am

memory_leak wrote:No idea about Asus bugs, it would be interested if someone reviewed their c236 mobo since it is oriented towards enterprise industry for workstations and verified extra for long term operation, bugs etc. To note this is also relatively new motherboard, seems to be released this year, unlike Z170 boards, inclusive Asrock, which are now more than a year old most of them if not more.
I think the bug is related to my motherboard alone, and to what i tested, at the beginning on bios 0403 (from what i can remember) it didnt had the issues, when i upgraded to 0703 it started noticing that the values of the test of the fans on the bios didn't override the bios limitations (min PWM %), in other cases when it did worked, when i went low like 15% pwm for example, the graph gliteched and the pc restarted, other times when all worked sort of speak, the values didnt save after saving it on bios. This motherboard i bough for testing fans, and i wanted to see if the Fake PWM headers were fixed from Asus continues lies over the years, and they did, now all headers are PWM or Voltage control (as the CPU_FAN has been from sandy bridge), so for me its fine, i dont care about Asus bios fan control and that its buggy on motherboard (i have seen one here here on spcr had good success with it, and two that dont), as im using FanXpert3 to test all my fans and it will override anything on bios regarding fan control, so its fine for me.

This kinda stuff is hard to research, even big website dont test headers or mention restrictions, they just enter the bios to give glimps of what to expect but very vague, the only way to really see is to buy them and test.

I hope you have a great experience with Asus, and that you don't experience what i did, as you going the linux route, but even then you could just go with external fan controller and end up with quiet pc, just not dynamic. And if it works great, don't upgrade the bios, this is not the first time that Asus has changed restrictions or operation on bios regarding fan control, so leave it as it is if all is working as you like.

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