Advice for a silent HTPC 4k build (Spesifically the Case)

[Khal Daydreamer]

Ahoy!
With the introduction of the Pascal serie graphics cards I find it a fitting time to upgrade/replace my current setup. I am specifically unsure on which HTPC case to buy (because I dont have room for a tower). My current pc has a tower which is on the ground sideways, and definitely not a ideal position.

I've been looking at a few reviews on this page, and I'm still uncertain on exactly which one to pick. Currently I'm considering on buying the <Silverstone Grandia GD05>, but I'm not sure if this is THE BEST, pick. My budget is is between 100-200 USD.

I'm also going to buy a skylake cpu, and I've read that the scythe Mugen max coolers that are highly reccomended here, cause the cpu to crack. Is there perhaps an alternative which is better or just as good? Budget between 50-100 USD

Current planned build

CPU:i 7-6700K Skylake
PSU: Corsair HX750i
Motherboard: ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII RANGER
RAM: Not picked any yet
HDD: Re-using old ones
SSD: Re-using old ones
GPU: GTX 1080 Founder edition
CPU fan: Need advice

Case: Silverstone Grandia GD05


If anyone has any experiance with HTPC setups, or perhaps know of a super ideal case, please let me know!
The HTPC case can be wide (up to 60 cm) and up to 32 cm tall

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.

A couple questions for you regarding thermal management. Most of the horizontal cases suck compared to towers for gaming systems.

It looks like this case will be going into an enclosed space..if so, are the front and rear open or are they closed as well? How deep is the opening?

Are you planning to overclock the CPU/GPU? Overvolt?

CPU: marginal benefit of i7 over i5 for gaming.

GPU: founders edition = stock blower reference card. Wait for Asus/MSI/etc to come out with their third party cards and coolers to see how they compare for temps/noise/performance.

[Abula]

Do you need or will be using an optical drive?

Is looks important? i mean do you want it to look like similar to AV components (receivers, blu ray players, amps, etc)?

[Khal Daydreamer]

Welcome to SPCR.

A couple questions for you regarding thermal management. Most of the horizontal cases suck compared to towers for gaming systems.

It looks like this case will be going into an enclosed space..if so, are the front and rear open or are they closed as well? How deep is the opening?

Are you planning to overclock the CPU/GPU? Overvolt?

CPU: marginal benefit of i7 over i5 for gaming.

GPU: founders edition = stock blower reference card. Wait for Asus/MSI/etc to come out with their third party cards and coolers to see how they compare for temps/noise/performance.

The space is 55cm deep, and it is open in the front, and luckily has a vent on the right hand side leading outside the flat. I've attached a drawing and a real life picture.

I have always been slightly puzzled as to why horizontal cases suck in comparison. I understand the principle that cold air is usually at the bottom, and being sucked upwards is advantageous, but the case I am considering has 2 fans underneath + psu fan. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811163196)


At this time I am not considering any overclocks, but I am taking the ROG motherboard which allows me to overclock all components with a push of a single button!

I7 vs I5 might be marginal, but I dont know if any potential games might be released in the future that might draw more power from the CPU, considering that DX12 is starting to take root.

Do you know how long it takes for asus/msi to release their own version?

[Khal Daydreamer]

Do you need or will be using an optical drive?

Is looks important? i mean do you want it to look like similar to AV components (receivers, blu ray players, amps, etc)?

I don't need any optical drive
This project is more out of necessity than anything, because I'm living in a student flat, which has very limited space. I've attached 2 pics, and unfortunately as you can see there isn't any room for a tower, so a HTPC is the only way to go :/

[CA_Steve]

horizontal vs vertical: the latter usually wins because of the front to back airflow whereas the horizontal cases typically are side to side and interior components like the gfx card block the airflow.

i7 vs i5 and DX12: oddly, I think DX12 will lessen the need for an i7 (except for some fringe cases) as the improvements in cpu control overhead means it's less likely for one core to be at 100% and the others at 50%.

Alas - I need to hit the road. You are in Abula's capable hands

[Abula]

Do you know how long it takes for asus/msi to release their own version?

It really depends on nvidia, if they allow on release to have their custom pcb design, most of the time is two weeks. Some times nvidia doesnt allow this, so 3rd party sell on reference for a month or so.

The HTPC case can be wide (up to 60 cm) and up to 32 cm tall

The space is 55cm deep, and it is open in the front, and luckily has a vent on the right hand side leading outside the flat.

I personally dont like the usual HTPC cases because of the hieght restritcion they have with CPU coolers or even custom GPU. I see the space you have available proper to go with a more cube style case. Not sure if you already bought the motherboard, but there is a similar in micro atx with the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE, going into a case like Fractal Design Node 804 has the following Case dimensions (WxHxD): 344 x 307 x 389 mm, will allow you CPU coolers until 160mm, one that fits the height and width restrictions is the SPCR Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn, which is one of the best atm for air cooling, you can get it in Scythe SCNJ-4000 Ninja 4 CPU Cooler Heatsink 120mm, and you need to buy standard height memory or it will interfere with the 120mm glidestream. Here is a video for you to see if you like the case, Best PC Cube Case? Fractal Design Node 804 Review

There are other options out there from Lian Li, Coolermaster, thermaltake, Corsair, etc if you dont like the Node 804. There is also the option into going mini itx for cases like Ncase M1, that will take very little space.

[Khal Daydreamer]

Do you know how long it takes for asus/msi to release their own version?

It really depends on nvidia, if they allow on release to have their custom pcb design, most of the time is two weeks. Some times nvidia doesnt allow this, so 3rd party sell on reference for a month or so.

The HTPC case can be wide (up to 60 cm) and up to 32 cm tall

The space is 55cm deep, and it is open in the front, and luckily has a vent on the right hand side leading outside the flat.

I personally dont like the usual HTPC cases because of the hieght restritcion they have with CPU coolers or even custom GPU. I see the space you have available proper to go with a more cube style case. Not sure if you already bought the motherboard, but there is a similar in micro atx with the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE, going into a case like Fractal Design Node 804 has the following Case dimensions (WxHxD): 344 x 307 x 389 mm, will allow you CPU coolers until 160mm, one that fits the height and width restrictions is the SPCR Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn, which is one of the best atm for air cooling, you can get it in Scythe SCNJ-4000 Ninja 4 CPU Cooler Heatsink 120mm, and you need to buy standard height memory or it will interfere with the 120mm glidestream. Here is a video for you to see if you like the case, Best PC Cube Case? Fractal Design Node 804 Review

There are other options out there from Lian Li, Coolermaster, thermaltake, Corsair, etc if you dont like the Node 804. There is also the option into going mini itx for cases like Ncase M1, that will take very little space.

I've done some research and it seems like the Node 804, is a loud beast (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8977/frac ... e-review/4). My dilemma regarding space is rather frustrating, as I have room enough for a wide case but I have no idea if wide cases attribute in any way for further cooling.

I haven't done so much research in aerothermics, but my first thought would be that the smaller the case is, the faster the "hot" air inside it will be replaced. Thus a big case would need more time.
I might ofcourse be wrong in this assessment though

I've also been fooling around with the idea of 3d printing a case, but I think that would be the complete last resort, hehe.

The primary goal is to find a case which doesn't create alot of noise.

[quest_for_silence]

I've done some research and it seems like the Node 804, is a loud beast (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8977/frac ... e-review/4).

Personally I don't like Fylladitakis as a reviewer, but I guess you completely misunderstood/misinterpreted his words (and the 804 too).

...The stock cooling fans of the Node 804 have a maximum speed of just 1200RPM and their noise levels are very low, making them some of the quietest fans we have ever seen included with a case. They are not going to break any CFM air movement records, but they are remarkably quiet. Even at their maximum speed, only a soft humming sound can be heard from a distance of 1 meter, making them perfectly comfortable for everyday use...

[Khal Daydreamer]

I've done some research and it seems like the Node 804, is a loud beast (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8977/frac ... e-review/4).

Personally I don't like Fylladitakis as a reviewer, but I guess you completely misunderstood/misinterpreted his words (and the 804 too).

...The stock cooling fans of the Node 804 have a maximum speed of just 1200RPM and their noise levels are very low, making them some of the quietest fans we have ever seen included with a case. They are not going to break any CFM air movement records, but they are remarkably quiet. Even at their maximum speed, only a soft humming sound can be heard from a distance of 1 meter, making them perfectly comfortable for everyday use...

Perhaps so, but he also states that the fans are the most quiet fans he has ever encountered included in a case.
So I suppose I'd have to buy 3d party fans regardless or?

I was more alarmed by this

The noise coming from our artificial source reached our instrumentation almost entirely unobstructed, meaning that any noise source installed inside the Node 804 will not be dampened at all to the perception of the user

[Abula]

The primary goal is to find a case which doesn't create alot of noise.

Overall cases dont generate noise, well some can through their mesh or perforated steel, but what i found over the years that cases themselves have little impact, yes aluminum might have higher resonance and thick steel can or even dampining can help some, but overall the impact is not as big many might think. Worry more about what you going to put inside, thats what really is going to gerenate noise, careful choosing of all components for me its much more important than the case itself.

I suggested the 804 out of your restricted measurments, and you want a i7 6700K, thus a cooler that handle it will be key to quiet computing, most the HTPC slim wide cases wont be able to fit a cooler like Ninja4 because of its height, and you are limited to blow down coolers, and some do a decent job, but not as good as Ninja4, if you persue this route with the horizontal case, get one that can fit a NH-C14, thats your best bet into cooling a i7 6700K.

If you dont feel comfortable still with 804, and this is important as its your money and only you have to live with it, consider the Fractal Design Node 304, it was reviewed by SCPR Fractal Design Node 304 Mini-ITX Case, its dimensions should fit your desk. There are similar motherboards to what you were looking like ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII IMPACT or if you want a cheaper ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING, for this case i would use a Scythe Kotestu SCKTT-1000, also reviewed by SPCR Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King, one of the trickest things about the build is the PSU, as with long GPU you will need one that has the modular cables in the bottom, and thus one of the PSU that fits this is the Seasonic G550 (i believe a coolermaster V550 also fits but crosscheck it), but this isnt semi passive nor as quiet as others, to me its not loud by any means, i have done 3 builds on it, and its alright, even SPCR used it on Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy Edition, other PSU you need to remove the bracket and secure it with zipties. If you wish read more about it, and to see builds check OCN [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club

[Khal Daydreamer]

The primary goal is to find a case which doesn't create alot of noise.

Overall cases dont generate noise, well some can through their mesh or perforated steel, but what i found over the years that cases themselves have little impact, yes aluminum might have higher resonance and thick steel can or even dampining can help some, but overall the impact is not as big many might think. Worry more about what you going to put inside, thats what really is going to gerenate noise, careful choosing of all components for me its much more important than the case itself.

I suggested the 804 out of your restricted measurments, and you want a i7 6700K, thus a cooler that handle it will be key to quiet computing, most the HTPC slim wide cases wont be able to fit a cooler like Ninja4 because of its height, and you are limited to blow down coolers, and some do a decent job, but not as good as Ninja4, if you persue this route with the horizontal case, get one that can fit a NH-C14, thats your best bet into cooling a i7 6700K.

If you dont feel comfortable still with 804, and this is important as its your money and only you have to live with it, consider the Fractal Design Node 304, it was reviewed by SCPR Fractal Design Node 304 Mini-ITX Case, its dimensions should fit your desk. There are similar motherboards to what you were looking like ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII IMPACT or if you want a cheaper ASUS Z170I PRO GAMING, for this case i would use a Scythe Kotestu SCKTT-1000, also reviewed by SPCR Scythe Kotetsu CPU Cooler: A Compact King, one of the trickest things about the build is the PSU, as with long GPU you will need one that has the modular cables in the bottom, and thus one of the PSU that fits this is the Seasonic G550, but this isnt semi passive nor as quiet as others, to me its not loud by any means, i have done 3 builds on it, and its alright, even SPCR used it on Quiet Mini-ITX Gaming Build Guide #3: BitFenix Prodigy Edition, other PSU you need to remove the bracket and secure it with zipties. If you wish read more about it, and to see builds check OCN [Official] Fractal Design Node 304 Owners Club

Wow, I really appreciate the advice! I'm naturally now leaning towards the node 804, since I simply believe you have more experience on the matter than I do
I was simply more enticed by the HTPC from silverstone, due to the high score given by a reviewer on this page. I think I'll aquire the Node 804 if you believe its the best option!

[Abula]

Wow, I really appreciate the advice! I'm naturally now leaning towards the node 804, since I simply believe you have more experience on the matter than I do
I was simply more enticed by the HTPC from silverstone, due to the high score given by a reviewer on this page. I think I'll aquire the Node 804 if you believe its the best option!

Reserch more, try to see builds also OCN should have more info on them and builds. Not saying its the best, i like other cases more and im not into cubes to much, but for your situation asking for certain meassurements and looking for something that will fit a big cooler for the 6700K, then it fits the description, but spend some time and look into if its good enough, only you will have to deal with it later on. Also check the node304, its a nice small case, spend some time no the thread i posted above, see how you like it also, both should be good options for your desired dimensions.

[quest_for_silence]

Perhaps so, but he also states that the fans are the most quiet fans he has ever encountered included in a case.
So I suppose I'd have to buy 3d party fans regardless or?

I don't get your joke/question: though probably you didn't get my remark.
Noise mainly comes from moving parts, so the fans for a case: whether a case doesn't have fans, either you do have to buy some (for instance Silverstone ML-08), or the case is heatsinked (for instance Streacom FC8, HD Plex H5).
So saying "but he also states..." is mostly a non sense, referred to your previous "...it seems like the Node 804, is a loud beast": said differently, NO reviewer (and E. Fylladitakis particularly) EVER said the 804 were loud, et pour cause (as well as no experienced builder would say so that way).

I was more alarmed by this

The noise coming from our artificial source reached our instrumentation almost entirely unobstructed, meaning that any noise source installed inside the Node 804 will not be dampened at all to the perception of the user

That's just why you had no idea of what looking for (don't take offense, please, that's just what I feel): as we're used to say here, there ain't no such thing as a silent case.
It's all a matter of balance.

[Khal Daydreamer]

I don't get your joke/question: though probably you didn't get my remark.
Noise mainly comes from moving parts, so the fans for a case: whether a case doesn't have fans, either you do have to buy some (for instance Silverstone ML-08), or the case is heatsinked (for instance Streacom FC8, HD Plex H5).
So saying "but he also states..." is mostly a non sense, referred to your previous "...it seems like the Node 804, is a loud beast": said differently, NO reviewer (and E. Fylladitakis particularly) EVER said the 804 were loud, et pour cause (as well as no experienced builder would say so that way).

My question was if there are more silent fans I can buy, and replace the ones included. The reviewer states that they are the most quiet ones he has ever encountered that are included in a case, so I suppose it is possible to even further minimize the noise

And he never claimed it was a loud beast, it was just my "fear". He essentially said at one point that the case wasn't that good at mitigating noise made from internal components, like CPU fan/GPU fan.

[Abula]

My question was if there are more silent fans I can buy

My suggestion is to get a motherboard that can control fans well, and then decide for yourself if they are worth it or not,

Asus
is the best on software control (fanXpert) con do PWM or voltage in all headers, bios fan control seems great but has some bugs in my experience.

AsRock
is the best on bios PWM fan control, on 3pin voltage is limited to two headers in most cases, but its important to understand which can do the autodetect to plan correctly what fans to use on which.

MSI
is pretty good for PWM on bios, not as good as Asrock, but solid. Is lacking on 3pin, it used to be able to do dynamic undervolting until haswell, skylake can only do steady undervolting on their SYS_FAN headers.

If you find the fans not adequate for your noise desires, here some suggestions for you to consider, and be careful into if you go PWM or 3pin, will depend on the motherboard mostly. If you want to go with a lot of fans, go with PWM and get a Swiftech 8W-PWM-SPL-ST 8 Way PWM Splitter, most of the motherboards on skylake will have at least two PWM headers, so you can leave one for your CPU and one for the case fans (with the splitter)

120mm 3pin (voltage control)
Noiseblocker M12-S1 850rpms (S2 1200rpms)
Noctua NF-S12B 700rpms REDUX
Noctua NF-S12A ULN (800rpm)
Nexus Basic 120 (1200rpms)
Scythe Slipstream/Glidestream 120mm (multiple speeds to chose from)

120mm 4pin (PWM)
Noctua NF-S12A PWM
Noctua NF-S12B PWM Redux
Scytle Slipstream PWM (1300rpm)
Scythe Giidestream PWM (1300rpm)

140mm 3pin (voltage control)
Noctua NF-P14s Redux (900rpm)
Antec True Quiet 140 (800rpm)

140mm 4pin (PWM)
Noctua NF-P14s PWM Redux (1200rpm)

140mm fans on 120mm mounting frame (4pin)
Thermalright TY-147A PWM (1300rpms)
Noctua NF-P14R Redux PWM (1500rpms)

All the fans above, i own or have used on builds and to me they are among the best you can get. Some are expensive others cheap, some are good looking others are not.... up to you what you like and if you find them worth its price.

[quest_for_silence]

My question was if there are more silent fans I can buy, and replace the ones included. The reviewer states that they are the most quiet ones he has ever encountered that are included in a case, so I suppose it is possible to even further minimize the noise

As said, I don't like Fylladitakis reviews, above all because they're useless in a noise reduction perspective: basically he said nothing significant, just that slow fans are more comfortable than higher speed ones, sort of a truism I'd dare to say.

The Fractal R2 140mm fans were thoroughfully tested by SPCR in the R4 case review: they're decent, someone likes them, some other people do not; as said by Abula, you have to try them at first, because swapping components on the sole basis of untested/preconceived ideas is rather pointless.

And he never claimed it was a loud beast, it was just my "fear". He essentially said at one point that the case wasn't that good at mitigating noise made from internal components, like CPU fan/GPU fan.

It's all a matter of balance: "closed" cases may block some noise but air too, so that internal fans are forced to spin at an higher pace, being more noisy.
On the other hand, more "open" enclosures leave a more straight path to your ears, but they feed more fresh air to the internal parts, thus let you lower the relevant fans speed.

[Khal Daydreamer]

Awesome guys! Thanks alot for the great tips, I things I've got it all sorted out, but I have one last questions.

Which of these 3 would you say would be most suitable?

Fractal Design Node 804

Corsair Carbide Air 240

Corsair Carbide Air 540 (I will flip it on the side so that the transparent glass faces up. It will be a tight fit)

Obviously leaning more towards the fractal design 804 at the moment

Do you know how long it takes for asus/msi to release their own version?

It really depends on nvidia, if they allow on release to have their custom pcb design, most of the time is two weeks. Some times nvidia doesnt allow this, so 3rd party sell on reference for a month or so.

The HTPC case can be wide (up to 60 cm) and up to 32 cm tall

The space is 55cm deep, and it is open in the front, and luckily has a vent on the right hand side leading outside the flat.

I personally dont like the usual HTPC cases because of the hieght restritcion they have with CPU coolers or even custom GPU. I see the space you have available proper to go with a more cube style case. Not sure if you already bought the motherboard, but there is a similar in micro atx with the ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII GENE, going into a case like Fractal Design Node 804 has the following Case dimensions (WxHxD): 344 x 307 x 389 mm, will allow you CPU coolers until 160mm, one that fits the height and width restrictions is the SPCR Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn, which is one of the best atm for air cooling, you can get it in Scythe SCNJ-4000 Ninja 4 CPU Cooler Heatsink 120mm, and you need to buy standard height memory or it will interfere with the 120mm glidestream. .

I can't seem to find the 160 mm version of the SPCR scythe ninja 4, is it supposed to be 120?

Thanks in advance

[CA_Steve]

Ninja: It's a 155mm tall cooler with a 120mm fan that will fit in a case that has a 160mm cooler clearance.

It looks like the case will be sitting on a carpeted floor. If you pick a case that has venting on the bottom, you might consider placing a piece of wood or something between it and the carpet in order to reduce any air restrictions and dust bunny intake.

Also, is the back of the desk/enclosure open or closed?

[Khal Daydreamer]

Ninja: It's a 155mm tall cooler with a 120mm fan that will fit in a case that has a 160mm cooler clearance.

Ahhh, true!

It looks like the case will be sitting on a carpeted floor. If you pick a case that has venting on the bottom, you might consider placing a piece of wood or something between it and the carpet in order to reduce any air restrictions and dust bunny intake.

Also, is the back of the desk/enclosure open or closed?

The foor isn't carpet, but is made out of some strange rubber like substance. Its quite hard to describe, but the I will make sure there is enough clearance between the case and the floor if I for instance pick the Corsair Carbide Air 540, which technically isn't ment to be inverted like the newer carbide air 240.

The back of the desk has a 1cm gap between the wall and the desk leading down to the pc. In addition to the vent on the picture that leads directly to the outside.