suggestion for full desktop system

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nimo11
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suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Sun May 30, 2021 3:34 am

hello, hope its the right forum.
i planning to build a new desktop.
i am not aa heavy gamer or other very demanding programs, but since i change my pc not often i want to have the fastest and newer one.
speed is important to me.
also silence.
i don't care if it will be for now more than i need, and the budget is not the major factor here.
regarding the cpu i had a dilemma between the amd Ryzen 7 5800 and intel 11700k.
the thing that a bit worry me in the intel is it's power consumption , 125 w, vs 105 in amd.
which means more cooling, more noise .
unless someone think i am wrong about it.
so i need a suggestion for a mother board , cooling for the cpu, graphic card not very expansive, case.
i am planning 2X16 ddr4.
and latest Samsung ssd hd.
i have a 4 k monitor.
thanks in advance for any help.
Last edited by nimo11 on Sun May 30, 2021 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Sun May 30, 2021 4:00 am

this is the suggestion i got from one of the stores in my country.
i am not assemble by myself, the store will do it for me.
will be glad to have comments and suggestions for other parts that to your opinion take in account better performance and silence.

AMD Zen3 Ryzen7 5800X

ROG-STRIX-B550-F-GAMING-WI-FI/ ASUS
AMD B550 (Ryzen AM4) ROG STRIX ATX WIFI

HyperX 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 1.35v - Fury RGB Series - HX432C16FB4AK2/32

471056224-1808-PC - Gainward GeForce GTX1650 GHOST ( think that this one is a bit more than i need).

Samsung
250GB SSD PCIe - 980 PRO Series - Gen4x4 M.2 2280 - Compatible with AMD X570 and B550 Motherboard

BGW34 - be quiet PURE BASE 500 Window Black

HCG-650G - Antec 650W 80Plus Gold Fully Modular

NH-D15-chromax-black - Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black - Height 165 mm

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Sun May 30, 2021 5:15 am

Advices would be better, if you described your pc's usage (games, programs etc) and needs (wi-fi motherboard, needed USB ports, plans of overclocking etc) - whatever you think could be useful.
It would be even better, if you linked us the shops you like to buy from. Then we'll see the prices and availability, then we'll choose the best options. I assume, that all parts need to be from one shop in case of building computer there.

For now I have couple of thoughts about things I would consider to change:

Don't expect too much silence from Pure Base 500. Paper-steel, not needed holes on the top and cheap, low-density bitumic material. This case scores fairly quiet on reviews compared to other quiet cases, only because bq! was clever enough to equip it only with two fans and reduce their speed compared to their other cases, what somehow covers lows I mentioned above - but only case fans noise and here's the catch. I also don't like, how front dust filtering is executed. Two layers of metal mesh won't be as efficient as legit filter and will be PITA to clean. Non-windowed quiet cases dampen the noise better.

If you want something compact, as unbeatable bang-for-buck I see Fractal Design Define C or C Mini (only lower than normal C and only for mATX board - I don't like it). There's also Define 7 Compact, newest iteration of these cases, which costs noticeably more and differ in few small details, but to me it's worth it and I find this case as the best compact quiet case on the market.

I wouldn't pay for RGB ram, if you decide to go with non-windowed case.

Antec PSU is decent one, but one big unknown to me is, how quiet it is as I can't find any info. Only KitGuru's review of 750W version, which scores well here, so lower-wattage one should be even a little quiter. I also don't know the price, so maybe something other calculates better. You don't need 650W for such low-power build.

D15 is the best air cooler both for silence and performance. It means this thing can be quiet, but also get loud, so it's not the best choice for somebody, who won't be experimenting with it's fan curve.

CA_Steve
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by CA_Steve » Sun May 30, 2021 6:38 am

Consider going with the 500GB 980 Pro, as the 250GB takes a hit in some performance specs as it doesn't utilize all of the memory channels.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Sun May 30, 2021 11:01 am

thank you for your reply and help.
i can give you the link to the store but it's all in Hebrew, so i guess you can't understand it.
about my usage, i know i am buying something beyond my needs, but that's what i decided.
i have a daughter that soon will start playing pc games, so i do it also for the future.
i don't like to upgrade often my pc.
so first should i go for the amd 5800 or the intel 11700k?
as i said i think that my choice is the 5800, unless someone will give me another argument about it.
about wi fi on mobo, it's not a must but nice to have, any way both options they gave me have it.
i am not planning overclocking.
the budget is not the major subject, looking for a fast quiet system.
so after my decision about the cpu i'll appreciate exactly the kind of suggestions you gave me.
i can get a fractal define .
there are many models from it . MESHIFY C, mini c, define 7, nd others
whish one do you recommend more.
sorry for my ignorance, what is RGB ram ?
something that make color lights?
i think that the mobo anyway does not support it , but maybe i'm wrong.
any way if case with a window effect silence i prefer without it.
which psu do you recommend for quiet operation?
about the D15 i didn't understand this: "not the best choice for somebody, who won't be experimenting with it's fan curve."
do you have other recommendation to me?

nimo11
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Location: tel aviv

Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Sun May 30, 2021 11:25 am

from ‏Fractal Design there are many models.
Define 7 Compact.
FD-C-MES2A-02.
Core 2500 ATX.
XL Titanium Grey R2
FD-C-MES2A-04
Define R6 ATX
FD-C-MES2X-01
Define S ATX
Define 7 Black FD-C-DEF7A-01
Core 2500 Black CORE-2500-BL
Define R5 Black DEF-R5-BK
Define R6 Black DEF-R6-BK

i see that define 7 comes also with a side glass:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fr ... n-define-7

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Sun May 30, 2021 1:15 pm

I assume, that will be general use computer: webrowsing and some non-demanding games and programs (1650 isn't monster, especially in 4K) with maybe GPU upgrade in the future.

If you don't plan to overclock, I wouldn't go with 5800X or 11700K. What I would choose is cheaper and cooler non-overclockable 11700 (without K). You wouldn't notice the difference between 11700 and 11700K or 5800X.

If you like my idea with CPU, type me here all available in chosen store B560 motherboards and their prices. About wi-fi, I don't see a point of using it with immobile pc, wi-fi boards are more expensive plus connecting to internet with cable just works better. Wi-fi in pc makes sense, only if this cable makes some problem in type of crossing the room or such, but if you use cable now - stick to it. Ofc I can recommend you some wi-fi boards, if you still want some ;)

For CPU cooler I recommend Scythe Ninja 5 - it will cool 11700 nicely, it will be damn quiet for sure. If not available, check if you can get: Scythe Fuma 2 and be quiet! Dark Rock 4 and type me here their prices. By "not the best choice for somebody, who won't be experimenting with it's fan curve." I meant that NH-D15 can get really loud, if running closer to maximum speed. If so, it's needed to go to the bios (UEFI) to not allow it to run that fast. If you don't do such things, just buy one of the way quieter coolers out-of-the-box I mentioned.

With ram type me here all available sets of 2x16GB 3000Mhz, CL15 and 3200, CL16 with their prices. RGB ram is ram shining with colors - not needed if non-windowed case chosen. It will be best, if you use Producer Codes like such: F4-3200C16D-32GVK
EDIT: If there're many, you can focus on usually reasonably priced Patriot Viper; G.Skill Ripjaws and Crucial Ballistix.

980 Pro is nice one, but I would also think about Steve's advice - smaller sizes of drives are slower and buying another 250GB of the same drive if needed will be more expensive than buying today 500 GB version, which is also faster. As a gamer, I can tell you that 250 GB for Windows and modern games (~5 years old and newer) is damn tiny - I used such for three years. If something bigger than 250GB, check also WD Black SN850.

This Antec PSU is fine, but tell me it's price. You don't need 650W, but if you plan to upgrade this computer in the future, bigger wattages as 650W make sense. Check also prices and availability of Bitfenix Formula Gold; Bitfenix Whisper; Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum and Corsair RMx. Israel is rather warm country and I wonder, how semi-passive PSU like this Antec would work there. Do you have air conditioner at home?

About case, I understood, that you don't need to save, so just buy yourself the best :) Define 7 Compact or even bigger Define 7, if you don't mind such size and weight. With mentioned configuration you don't need that size, but GPU and CPU cooler sizes tend to get bigger and bigger, so maybe it makes sense, maybe you prefer to have something more compact now and buy bigger only when it will be needed.

And yes, I don't speak hebrew, but if you use normal numbers, so I could see prices, you can just post here the links instead of typing everything I mentioned :)

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Mon May 31, 2021 12:00 am

CA_Steve wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 6:38 am
Consider going with the 500GB 980 Pro, as the 250GB takes a hit in some performance specs as it doesn't utilize all of the memory channels.
it's ok with me to go on the 500gb.
although this review compare between the 1 tb and 250 gb.
nothing said about the 500.
other strange things there are that in some cases older versions of Samsung, like 970. or psie3, give better performance.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Mon May 31, 2021 12:25 am

strange thig is that after i am editing it does not save it.
reading this article
https://seekingtech.com/samsung-980-pro ... r%20second
i convinced to go on bigger capacity ssd.
it can be 500 or 1tb.
today i am using 250 samsung ssd , only for o.s and programs.
in addition a 3 tb hdd , that full around 2 tb, for other stuff.
so 1 tb ssd will not be enough for everything.
if i can count on the above article i see that the significant difference in performance is between the 1 tb to the 250.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Mon May 31, 2021 2:31 am

thank you Japanese Capacitor for kind help.
i assume that you are right about the cpu choice.
maybe it's a physiological thing that i made some compromises on me previous pc an later regret it.
i will take some time to decide about it.
the price difference is not a subject right now to me, only the argument of 65w being cooler than the 105w 5800x.
but let me ask a question.
is more wat always be hotter, no matter the load of the usage?
also i read in several that cpu that made for o,k are more reliable.
"TDP stands for thermal design power or sometimes thermal design point, and CPU TDP is the maximum amount of heat that a CPU (or even GPUs) can use."
does it means that on any satiation it will Couse more heat?

about the ssd drive i wrote above.

couldn't find in my country ninja 5, only Scythe Ninja 3 SCNJ-3000.
neither Scythe Fuma 2 .
there is Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 BK022 , it come with 12 cm fan.
do you think it's better than the NH-D15 ?
i am not writing you the prices since the differences are not so big and i will buy any way the best for me.
i read this article that compare both.
https://turbofuture.com/computers/Noctu ... CPU-Cooler
looks like the NH-D15 runs bit cooler, but has something with a hum noise
"I did notice an annoying hum/whine with the NH-D15, while in the dual “pull” setup I had to run to compensate for my RAM height. However, in single fan configuration in “push” setup, the NH-D15 was inaudible and equal to the Dark Rock Pro".
what does it mean "the dual “pull” setup"?
if I'll do this: "go to the bios (UEFI) to not allow it to run that fast' it will be almost totally quiet?

for the psu, i am interesting in those that called semi passive, means does not use the fan up to some load.
i know that corsier have those.
do you recommend me on some specific psu?

i read about the define 7 compact, and the bigger one.
the compact is not ideal with air flowing.
the bigger 7 got top reviews almost everywhere.
of course i would be glad for a smaller case, but i am using now an antec 182 which is kind of the same size as the 7.

CA_Steve
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by CA_Steve » Mon May 31, 2021 4:43 am

SSD: Yeah, I was just leading you to the spec sheet on the first page.

Here's a review where you can compare system power use at different loads with the CPUs mentioned.

At idle, they are all within a watt over ea other. With a single-threaded load, the 10700K uses 7W more. With a multi-threaded heavy load the 10700 system uses 137W, the 5800X uses 175W, and the 10700K uses 207W. Gaming will probably be within 10W of each other depending on the game used.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Mon May 31, 2021 5:14 am

CA_Steve wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 4:43 am
SSD: Yeah, I was just leading you to the spec sheet on the first page.

Here's a review where you can compare system power use at different loads with the CPUs mentioned.

At idle, they are all within a watt over ea other. With a single-threaded load, the 10700K uses 7W more. With a multi-threaded heavy load the 10700 system uses 137W, the 5800X uses 175W, and the 10700K uses 207W. Gaming will probably be within 10W of each other depending on the game used.
thanks, wonderful review.
so i see that 5800x results are not so bad compare to the 10700.
energy usage is even better.
what important to me is how it's translate to temperature , and from there to need of more cooling. leading to more noise.

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon May 31, 2021 5:47 am

Drives: Samsung 980 Pro and WD Black SN850 are one of the best and fastest drives you can get, so go for one. Black is a little better, but also should be more expensive - choose whatever you feel better with, because it really doesn't matter.

If you need more space, I wouldn't go too big with PCIe 4.0 drive, because I don't see a point in your usage, so it won't justify it's cost. You buy this drive, because it's damn fast and it can get useful in the future. But for just pure space I recommend going with great, reliable SSD in type of Crucial MX500. You will store games on PCIe 4.0 one and 500 GB is plenty for 3-4 biggest games and system, rest on SSD. You don't want regular HDDs, because they're hot and noisy. I find it the most reasonable approach for you.

CPU: I don't see a point of going with 11700K or 5800X. Choice of CPU depends on GPU, resolution, usage and expectations like you wanting it to run cool and quietly. I considered it all with your configuration and what you said and I don't see any better option. I don't stand for it, because it's better priced - I just see K and Ryzen pointless, not making any difference with your configuration, fitting your needs less and in the end you paying for it all more ;)

Amount of Watts CPU pulls depends on task it does, but also amount of Watts it's able to pull. Possible power draw of modern Intel K CPUs is just stupid. The more Watts it takes, the more cooling it demands from the cooler (fan speed-noise). If we take as example games, there're games, where my CPU is shy to cross 50C, in most of the games it's 50-60C, but there're also not many ones, which made it hitting 75C, but for most of the time balancing slightly below 70C - these examples are only from demanding, modern <3 years old games. But when I run myself RealBench, so my CPU is constantly fully utilized, it's able to reach even 85C - that's stress test, so completely unrealistic scenario, which won't happen with gaming computer.

I don't know, how K CPUs could be more reliable. For sure manually overclocked ones (not just overclockable left on stock settings) are less reliable due to increased risk of instability.

Cooler: Dark Rock Pro 4 isn't better than Noctua D15 and is still the kind you don't want, if you won't be setting mentioned before fan curve. This cooler can be quiet, but can get also loud. That's why I recommended you basic Dark Rock 4 (BK021). If Dark Rock 4 is unavaiable, check Scythe Mugen 5 rev. B or be quiet! Shadow Rock 3. But generally first we choose CPU and then cooler.

Mentioned ''the dual "pull" setup" probably means cooler with two fans and two towers like D15 or DRP4.

In bios (UEFI) you can modify fan curves of case or CPU cooler fans. You choose, what speed cooler/fan will run, when reaching given temperature.

PSU: My favourite semi-passive PSU is Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum, but secound best I find Corsair RMx - most of the people would choose this one due to it being a little better electrically than still great Fractal. I like more that Fractal has option to switch from semi-passive to the same inaudible active mode, it has quietest and long lasting bearing of fan and thin, flexible cables. Eco-people would like also higher Platinum certificate.

Case: Define 7 Compact has plenty of airflow, but Define 7 CAN be better ventilated. Can, not is. Something like badly or well ventilated case doesn't exist. It's only a matter of airflow needs of components it will store inside and I wouldn't reccomend you anything inadequate. Remind yourself these shitty computers in offices, which are put into garbage 20 euros, non-sound-dampened cases and their CPU cooler is the worse one producers of CPUs include with them - and these computers run cool and quiet. Go with Compact, if you like it more. And Compact Black Solid is the most beautiful case on the market :>

I think, it's all you asked ;)

I tried to search some israeli store and how about it: https://www.topmarket.co.il/en/
I checked, what they have in stock and we could build nice computer.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Mon May 31, 2021 11:24 am

thank you Japanese Capacitor.
i am really appreciate so much your patience with me.
the store i am talking about is this one and i see that you can use google to translate to English.
https://www.plonter.co.il/main.tmpl?car ... 9&lang=heb
their site isn't very friendly to use.
we had good experience with their service, but there are other stores and i don't have to buy only from them/
for example they don't carry the fractal design, and I'll have to buy it from other place.
are you sure that the 7 compact have good air flow? since i read review that it isn't so good.

about the ssd drive i am not buying it for space , since anyway 1 tb will not be enough for me.
today i am using 250samsung ssd for os and programs , and 3 tb hdd for storage, which is already full up to 2 tb.
i think i'll go on the samsung 500, i read on some place that people had some issues with the wd, we have very good experience with samsung reliability.

funny thing today was as another person from that store , offered me the intel i9 11900( no k) , saying i will get the combination of max speed and low watts.
when i checked benchmark compare to the 11700 i did no see a significant difference, but of course its a significant price difference.

so right now i am still with the dilemma of 5800x nad the 11700 ( no k).
btw , about that i will not see any performance difference between the 11700 and the 5800x, is it something that you take info from, experience of people?
i am not debating it of course, just want to be sure i make the right decision.
about the watts an heat, so what you are saying that a cpu with more watts will run hotter no matter the kind of load on it?

cooler: i taught that you recommended me on the Dark Rock Pro 4. maybe misunderstood.
so you say that Dark Rock 4 (BK021) will, be better for me. just curious for the argument.
the BK021 is right now only on back order at this store and maybe in others .
BK022 , BK023, SHADOW ROCK 3 , are available.
Scythe in israel think have only those:
https://www.ret.co.il/c/697?manufacturer=scythe

Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum is not available here ( we are a small country...), but lot of corsair rmx yes.
i read here excellent recommendations about Corsair RM750x , especially about its' noise levels and think to go on it/
https://silentpcreview.com/best-power-supply/

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Mon May 31, 2021 1:39 pm

Patience is not my strenght, but I understand, why you ask and that's why I explain my choices. But I only advise, so I won't be convincing you to something. If you prefer to choose something other than I reccomend, go for it and I will still help you the same - that's your computer ;)

This plonter store isn't bad and I can translate it even to polish, but I don't see here few things we possibly would want. E.g. Define cases, which I assume, that you decided to buy and that's the problem, because nothing just on whole market is that good. There's some Phanteks P600S, which is quite good, but not good enough for me to ever recommend it and it's windowed version. Do I have some problem with this site or there are generally only 23 cases to choose? Dark Rock 4 isn't available, but it's not important until we choose the CPU, so plans can change. There's RMx, which would be great choice, but I see only 750W. Complete crazy wattage for your specification with any mentioned CPUs and GTX 1650, but if you plan to use this PSU for future upgrades, it makes sense. According to code, that's also older revision of RMx, but still awesome and worth buying.

I wouldn't generally care too much about store choice and past experiences, if you just buy from the biggest ones - usually better aftersale service, more civilized and accessible approach to returns or RMAs. I'm not oriented in israeli hardware shops reality, but I assume, that's universal.

Define 7 Compact has more than adequate airflow for your configuration. It's just not adequate for hottest configurations like some RTX 3080 with i9, but it is able to cool quietly mentioned CPUs and ~200W card in type RTX 3070. Especially if we talk gaming, not some hardcore stress testing usually seen on reviews. Plus you can always add some fan, change them for even better or use alternative airflow top for a some cost of noise. When you read reviews, you have to pay attention to test configuration and methodology and then compare it to your configuration and usage - without it you will know nothing just looking at some graphs.

500 GB of NVMe drive is reasonable choice. You can think also about some SATA SSD, they are way cheaper than PCIe 4.0 and more space can get useful in future (if not for you, for your daughter). Ofc you can always buy and add some drive - they are super easy to install.

i9 11th gen just sucks.

About CPUs, I take info from reviews. Sadly there're not many of 11700, but they are and non-K chips are predictable. At first place I wouldn't buy 11700K, because you don't plan to overclock it, so it won't make a difference. Ryzen 5800X just runs hot, so more noise needed to cool it and I also wouldn't call it stronger than 11700. So it's simple to me, but if you don't agree, go with whatever you want ;) I told you all I can say about these three CPUs and I'm done with it :]

I reccomended you Dark Rock 4 instead of Pro, because it's can't run as loud as Pro or D15. If you plan to set your own fan curve in bios, Pro and D15 are better choice. Pro and D15 give better temperatures with same noise level as Dark Rock 4, but they can also get louder, so it's needed to not allow them to run too fast by making own fan curve. Topic of CPU cooler is still open until you won't choose CPU.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:18 am

thank you.
is there any way i can assure that the corsair 750 i will get is totally the same as on the spcr review?
i an asking it because : "According to code, that's also older revision of RMx".
and you are right , with my choices of case and psu i thinking on future upgrade.
maybe my daughter will start gaming, or so.

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:40 am

This RMx from Plonter: https://www.plonter.co.il/detail.tmpl?sku=CP-9020179-EU is 99% the same as reviewed by SPCR. This review was made in 2020r. and RMx was revised in 2021, so he definitely wasn't reviewing newest version. Earlier revision of RMx took place in 2018, so I assume that two years later SPCR reviewer was talking about then-current one, so the one from Plonter - but I leave this 1% in case of he wasn't ;) So yes, you can be pretty sure, that these PSUs are the same.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:16 pm

thanks.
do you think the improved something in the 2021 version?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:44 pm

Ofc they improved it - that's what revisions are all about ;) From noticeable things they changed with 2021 fan curve for more agressive, so noisier, but mostly after crossing 70% of load of the wattage. Keep in mind, that generally various wattages of the same PSU differ with fan curves, so it's worth to check on official site or if no info there, dig for some reviews. They also changed the bearing of the fan for theoretically longer-lasting. Rest are small technical improvements, which you can find in reviews, if you that interested. My opinion is, both revisions are totally worth buying.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:27 pm

thank you.
another question about this:
"NH-D15 can get really loud, if running closer to maximum speed. If so, it's needed to go to the bios (UEFI) to not allow it to run that fast"
i did in the past things in bios.
is the above difficult to do?
will it solve the noise issue?
i'm asking since this one is the "Best Overall CPU Cooler" on spcr, but i think that they don't deal with be quiet.
maybe it because it's import and more costly?

edit:
i actually saw on some benchmarks that on 100% fan speed the noktua is louder than for example the bk pro 4.
but up till that it's a bit quieter and cooler.
so ' as you said, it's be better to limit it's speed.

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:34 pm

Let's start with general advice: quiet computer is built with quiet components, but experimenting with fan curves will make it quieter for sure and this difference can happen to be big. Such experimenting is nothing more than sacrificing temperatures for quieter operation, so better know, what you're doing or give it to somebody more knowledgeable. Nobody will tell you, what to click and when.

From what you wrote here, I noticed, that you don't know much about computers, you don't know enough to choose components or make your own and right points reading reviews, but also you're not the person, who will set some fan curves in bios (you even asked me what is this). That's why with my recommendations I aimed to build you possibly quietest computer out-of-the-box. E.g. I recommended you Scythe Ninja 5. This cooler would handle CPUs you mentioned and is super quiet, because it's maximum speed is only 800 rpm, so this thing is just not able to be loud - there's nothing similar on the market and it's perfect for person, who want quietest cooler without any playing with fan curves. Dark Rock Pro 4 or D15 cool even better, because they run faster, but you won't need their additional cooling potential, so you could get yourself source of serious noise with getting one them and not playing with fan curves.

Dark Rock Pro 4 vs D15:

- Noctua is stronger and louder
- Noctua gets noticeably louder than DRP4 after crossing ~1000 rpm, but also cools a little better
- below 1000 rpm both coolers make comparable noise, but the lower the speed, Noctua cools better than DRP4, so gives you opportunity to use quieter speeds than you could afford with DRP4

D15 is better cooler, if you buy it for silence. DRP4 is better if you buy it for cooling performance, but want sacrifce few degrees for quieter operation than running fast speeds D15.

Just see for yourself, how to set fan curves in bios. Type on youtube something like ,,bios fan curve". Your motherboard will probably offer some software, which will allow you to do the same from Windows. So without possibly dangerous expedition to bios.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:44 am

thank you.
after reading and thinking i decided to go for the amd 5800x.

this is the list of mother boards from this seller:
https://www.plonter.co.il/products_resu ... t=1&show=1
do you have some recommendation?

will need to choose ram 2x16 gb 3200 mhz.

decided to go on fractal design 7 .

looking for recommendations foo a graphic card up to 150 $.

about cooling.
the Scythe Ninja 5 is a bit difficult to get here, but some private stores may have it.
you are right that i am not "professional" about pc, but i am a quick learner.
as i said, i did in the past several adjustment of ram, fans speed and other things on bios.
i watched 2 videos about it and it does not look to complicated to me.
lets assume that i can do this thing of set fan curves in bios, and my main purpose is quiet operation , even with some cost of cooling, will you say that then the d 15 will give me the best of it?
let me ask it i other way.
if i will able to lower down the d 15 fan speed to the minimum , or find the optimum fan curves, sufficient for cooling, will it be the quietest?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:51 am

Computer knowledge is far from something you can learn fast and definitely this kind of science, where that's way better to listen to somebody more knowledgeable than making your own decisions ;)

Let's stop for a while with mobos and tell me, what you need. We go with B550 board, because you don't need X570 and you don't want this damn chipset fan they have. Do you need this wi-fi or not? You will pay noticeable premium for motherboard with just added wi-fi. Do you plan to put into this computer more drives than mentioned 980 Pro? Like some old HDDs or so, maybe some SSDs in the future? Do you have some compicated and bigger speaker set you would like to connect to this computer? If so, give me a link or at least model name, which leads to find it. Do you need any special USB connectors on motherboard external panel (back of computer)? I assume, that you won't overclock 5800X or ram.

Do you want me to choose some ram from Plonter store? Their browser works like shit and google translator makes it even worse, so if it's possible, send me the link with all 2x16 GB sets they have available.

Great choice with regular Define 7. That's the case I personally use and bought it, because I find it the best case on the market :] If you want it even better, we can change it's fans for better ones. Count two (enough) or three Silent Wings 3 (exactly BL067) - they are stronger, quieter and higher quality, so better in every aspect plus to me sound nicer - I tested both and use SW3 in my Define 7. Fans you get with the case are nice, but if you don't mind to pay for better, go for it. If you wonder, if it calculates with their costs, hard to say as it's completely relative.

GPUs also from Plonter store? Also give me the link to all <150$ cards, if possible. That other store I linked before had nice choice of available GPUs, but I don't remember, how it looked like with <150$ ones. And I assume, that you know, how card in type of 1650 plays modern games in 4K, right? If not, youtube: ,,gtx 1650 4K"

Don't bother with Ninja on 5800X, if you plan to set your fan curves, because then it won't be better - you can only buy it to save money. Yes, after playing with fan curves D15 will be the quietest possible cooler to get. I mean it will give you X temperature with lowest noise level from them all. But difference it would make compared to DRP4 is that low, that you can go with bequiet! also. Everybody has different ears, but I prefer type of sound Pro's fans create over fans of D15.

nimo11
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:41 am

b 550 is fine.
right now the wifi is not a must, but it'll be nice to have it if i'll move apartment and will be an issue with cable crossing.
i already have an external wifi card but i maybe a build in is better choice?
the additional price for it is vey little, but again' if there is a recommended mobo without it, i can live with it.
don't know if it true . but i read somewhere that a board that have kind of cooling plates can help with temperature.
i need a display port for my 4 k monitor and in addition at list one hdmi.
not sure if that something for me to expect from the board, or from the graphic card.
right now i will use at a minimum one ssd and one hdd, but prefer room for more for the future.
for audio, which is important to me i connect right now an integrated amp to the output sound jack on the rear , so the speakers comes from the amp.
prefer of course the fastest usb to connections.
type c i believe i'll have on the case, but think that to mobo should support it.
i am not planning o.c.
btw, on my current case, antek p182, i have an option to regulate fans speed.
does it exist on the fractal 7?
i agree that plonter site i very non friendly.
so maybe you will give me recommendations and i will look for it.
not sure that i will order from them.
found other two stores that carry the fractal and other items.
maybe those will be more easy for you
https://www.wellcom.co.il/#
https://biz.sto.co.il/

right now i don't need for 4 k games.
a graphic card is something that you always can upgrade in the future.
those are the relevant ram i found on plonter store:

AX4U3200716G16A-CTG20x2 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 CL16-20-20 DIMM - 1.35V - Tungsten Grey - XPG GAMMIX D20
X4U3200716G16A-SR30x2 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 PC4-25600 CL16-20-20 DIMM - 1.35V - Red - XPG GAMMIX D30 - Retail
AX4U3200316G16A-DR41 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 PC4-25600 CL16-20-20 DIMM - 1.35V - Red - XPG SPECTRIX D41 RGB
BL2K16G36C16U4B - 32GB (2x16GB) 3600MHz DDR4 CL16-18-18 1.35v - Ballistix Series
GASB416GB3600C18BSCx2 - 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3600Mhz - CL18 - 1.35V - Low Profile - EVO Spear Series
AX4U3200316G16-SR41x2 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 PC4-25600 CL16-18-18 DIMM - 1.35V - Red - XPG SPECTRIX D41 RGB
HX432C16FB4AK2-32 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 1.35v - Fury RGB Series - HX432C16FB4AK2/32
HX432C16FB4K2-32 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 1.35v - Fury Series - HX432C16FB4K2/32
AX4U3200716G16A-SW50x2 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 CL16-20-20 DIMM - RGB - 1.35V - White - XPG SPECTRIX D50
GAEXSY432GB3200C16ADC - 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3200Mhz - RGB - CL16 - 1.35V - EVO X II Series
XPG - AX4U3200716G16A-ST50x2 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200Mhz DDR4 CL16-20-20 DIMM - RGB - 1.35V - Black - XPG SPECTRIX D50
HX432C16PB3K2-32 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM XMP HyperX Predator - HX432C16PB3K2/32
HX432C16PB3AK2-32 - 32GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM XMP HyperX Predator RGB - HX432C16PB3AK2/32
HX432C16FB4K2-32 - HyperX 2GB (2x16GB) 3200MHz DDR4 CL16 1.35v - Fury Series - HX432C16FB4K2/32 ₪984/964

regarding the cooler , and as a music and audio fun you are so right about it : "Everybody has different ears".
the problem is that when i buy audio i can ask to listen to it first, something i can't do here.
i know it's a bit stupid to ask, but can you describe what do you like on the fan sound of the pro , compare to the d15?

and are you talking about DARK ROCK PRO 4?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:39 am

How about this board? https://www.plonter.co.il/detail.tmpl?s ... 1121650736
It has wi-fi, but if you like there exists also no-wifi version, it has great audio section. According to you this board is good or I recommend you some garbage ;)? I'm not interested in audio amplifiers, but if you connect it just with audio jack, it should work - check it yourself.

There's no external fan control switch on Define 7. Last Define case, which had such thing was Define R5. To change speeds to your likings with 7 you will need to use bios or some Windows software (usually motherboard's app).

Ram we will choose after the cooler, because of possible compatibility issues.

Just copy me here full names of all GPUs, which fits your budget from any store you like - it would be the best for you. There's one rule - if you want quitest and coolest model of some card (like GTX 1650), they are usually these most expensive, so don't try to save few bucks here.

Describing the sound is pointless, because I could use words you wouldn't use describing the same, so you would understand me wrong. I can tell you one thing - I really like how Silent Wings 3 fans sound, there are fans to me neutral like ones Fractal includes to Define 7 and there are fans I don't like as these on D15. Search internet for some videos with audio samples maybe.

nimo11
Posts: 266
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:22 pm

the mother board looks fine.
i will take aa closer look what kind and how many slots it has ,and rear connections.
i see it has 2 x M.2 Sockets, but only one (x4 mode) ?
some comment:" * When the M.2_2 Socket 3 is populated , SATA6G_5/6 ports will be disabled"
a very good audios chip is also important.

it' not a problem to me to set the case fans speed from bios.

for the gpu, on my current pc i use a totally passive one. radeon hd 7550.
what about this idea?

as for the cooler this review i read a bit worry me on the d 15.
https://turbofuture.com/computers/Noctu ... CPU-Cooler
"Ultimately, the Dark Rock Pro 4 is quieter than the NH-D15 in dual fan mode. I did notice an annoying hum/whine with the NH-D15, while in the dual “pull” setup I had to run to compensate for my RAM height. However, in single fan configuration in “push” setup, the NH-D15 was inaudible and equal to the Dark Rock Pro 4. After doing some research online, I did find other people who had similar issues with the hum/whine and most say it only occurs in pull setups"
the question is if i will reach the "pull setups".
i am not planning to use double fans.

i always thought that the bigger diameter the fan is, the quieter it should be.
cause it push more air in slower speed that smaller diameter.
the n15 comes with 140mm for the major fan, and 120 for the second one.
bk dark pro 4 with 3x 120 mm.

i will take your suggestion to search videos with audio samples.
just to be sure. i assume you are talking about Dark Rock Pro 4.
does all 3 fans work all the time?
do you think that out of the box, without doing any adjustments, the Pro 4 will be quieter that n15?

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:33 pm

It will be hard for you to find some modern passive card. One which comes to my mind is 1650 Palit KalmX. And - if I remember well as I was reading about it long time ago - this card even being such a low power card doesn't work great. Runs hot to the point when starts to throttle - loose performance to cool itself down. Sounds bad, but not obviously, because it all depends on scale of it. Maybe it looses unnoticeable amount of performance, maybe it's more serious. I doubt you would be able to get one as it was a rare one, but you can dig for some availability and reviews.

My personal opinion about passive things is one. It makes - some - sense only in fully passive builds. But nowadays components, especially put into sound-insulated case, are able to run that slow to be as silent as passive ones (if you just don't stick your ear to the case) and then they can handle way more heat, so e.g provide lower temperatures or being able to handle stronger components. So kinda no reason for passive things to exist anymore.

I didn't read this review too carefully or watched his whole clip, but I got, that he mounted one of D15's fans on the left side due to not being able to mount it on the right, because of too high ram modules and then he encountered acoustic problem. One day he will try to put this fan into his ass and encounter another. Sadly he didn't try to mount it as it should be, so only God knows about this damn D15.

That's another time, when you read some review and discourage yourself from what you want the most, because some bullshit. First was Define 7 Compact with ,,no airflow" for your hottest build on earth, now some guy doing everything else, but not what he should and compaining about effects.

nimo11
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:58 am
Location: tel aviv

Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:57 pm

you made me laughing with that review :D

a question.
i read that the b550f doesn't have type c on board.
on the other hand it say on it's spec: "2 x USB 3.2 Gen 2 (1 x Type-A+1 x USB Type-C®)"
i think that they mean the 550e has usb-c on the rear for audio. and the 550f not.

another question.
the mobo have one M.2 Socket SATA & PCIe 4.0 x4 mode
and one- M.2 Socket SATA & PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode , which is a bit slower.
is it so on most of the boards?

nimo11
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:58 am
Location: tel aviv

Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by nimo11 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:16 pm

i think that they mean the 550e has usb-c on the rear for audio. and the 550f not.

Japanese Capacitor
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Re: suggestion for full desktop system

Post by Japanese Capacitor » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:07 pm

I specially checked this Type C before recommending you this board and official site's specifications states about USB Type C in two columns: USB Ports and External Panel. That means, it has internal and external header, but to be sure now I downloaded the manual and it doesn't - just one C on external panel. So thank Asus for misleading specification. We can change this board, if you need this front panel Type C, because plenty of boards have them.

Only one 4.0 for storage on B550 boards.

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