Skylake thoughts

[Irrelevant]

Just a note to everyone: just because a mobo has Alpine Ridge doesn't necessarily mean it's Thunderbolt-capable. Gigabyte used to have Thunderbolt support listed on all their Alpine Ridge-equipped Z170 mobos, but they've since removed it (and well after commercial release, too, I believe) and then released the Z170X-UD5 TH, which they claim is the only TB3-certified mobo on the market (and for that, they charge you $40 more and withhold a few of the non-TH UD5's nicer features).

IMO, Thunderbolt 3's release has been confusing, frustrating, and disappointing. There are only two mobos that currently claim to be TB3-capable (one of them unreleased), no one's selling appropriate cables/adapters, and AFAIK no one's talking about it. I'd say TB3 is a complete flop, but flops at least make a splash. TB3 seems to have disappeared with scarcely a whisper. Anyone know what happened, where things are going, or when I might be able to buy a USB-C to Thunderbolt 1 adapter? I'm looking to upgrade in the next month, and Thunderbolt support is a major issue for me.

[edh]

Two more things I've been thinking about:
The i3 6320 is not a huge amount cheaper than the i5 6400. Usage scenario will obviously have a huge impact on this but it is entirely possible that the lower core count but higher clock speed of the i3 will make it faster for many people. Haven't seen any reviews of anything other than high end processors but i3 vs i5 would be an interesting comparison to see. i3 manages lower power consumption too.

With motherboards one thing that will drive my decision is M.2. It seems that M.2 is largely confined to Z170 motherboards, with a few exceptions. This is a shame as lower end motherboards used in lighter, thinner systems would be the ones most to benefit from M.2. I'm guessing marketing forces won this argument.

[CA_Steve]

The i3 6320 is not a huge amount cheaper than the i5 6400. Usage scenario will obviously have a huge impact on this but it is entirely possible that the lower core count but higher clock speed of the i3 will make it faster for many people.

There are games out there where CPU clock rate wins over core count. Esp. @ 1080p.

With motherboards one thing that will drive my decision is M.2. It seems that M.2 is largely confined to Z170 motherboards, with a few exceptions.

Only Z170 and H170 chipsets support (..and have the lanes to support) RST over PCIe.

To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.

[edh]

There are games out there where CPU clock rate wins over core count.

Exactly. Many basic uses for a computer will also show no discernible advantage at all to more cores. If it's any consolation the cores do clock up and down separately so the extra power usage for idle cores will be negligible. I do also wonder what the overlocking potential may be for i3 versus i5. Maybe the i3 6320 is already fairly close to it's limit (it has no turbo mode) and an overclocked i5 6400 might be able to match it clock for clock for single threaded tasks. I think I will go i5, and I've very sorry to say it and contradict what we keep saying on these forums, for 'futureproofing'.

Only Z170 and H170 chipsets support (..and have the lanes to support) RST over PCIe.

Try and find an H170 board with M.2 that doesn't have DDR3 or something else wrong with it. You're pretty much stuck with Z170 if you want M.2

To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.

Agreed. Only motherboards I've seen reviews of are Z170 ATX boards and most of them haven't been the common or garden Z170 but the uberl33t WTF FFS OMFG!!! edition that got dragged backwards through Mad Mr Wong's overly bright LED factory and costs twice as much as a result.

[yakuman]

Try and find an H170 board with M.2 that doesn't have DDR3 or something else wrong with it. You're pretty much stuck with Z170 if you want M.2

I beg to differ: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H170M ... fications/ This has both M.2 and DDR4 (mind you it has a limit frequency of 2133Mhz) I'm planning to get the H170M-PLUS/CSM version, which basically I imagine is the same with the Corporate Stable Model Program

[CA_Steve]

Asus H170 Pro and Pro Gaming support DDR4 and these are the two boards I'd suggest for non-OC gaming, anyway as they also have Intel NIC.

[Irrelevant]

Not sure if anyone but me cares, but I thought I'd post this anyway: two of Gigabyte's previous Z170 mobos have now received Thunderbolt 3 certification, suggesting that TB3 support doesn't require a whole lot more than an Alpine Ridge controller. Here's hoping that's true, because TB3 really has a lot going for it, and eGPUs aren't the only application that could make good use of it.

[edh]

Plunge taken. i5 6400 and Z170i Pro Gaming on their way along with other components for a fairly unique MiniITX system. Will post a build thread in a week or so.

[dev_guy]

To go along with the lesser CPU reviews, there is an amazing lack of H170 mobo reviews out there.

Agreed. Only motherboards I've seen reviews of are Z170 ATX boards and most of them haven't been the common or garden Z170 but the uberl33t WTF FFS OMFG!!! edition that got dragged backwards through Mad Mr Wong's overly bright LED factory and costs twice as much as a result.

Ha! I agree about all the nonsense. The motherboard business has become very competitive so there's a ton of marketing money being spent on trying to differentiate similar products while adding nearly every feature your competitor has. Sadly, despite all the plastic covers, "5X Life!" claims, stickers, colored heatsinks, etc, they still do incredibly stupid things like jamb the hardest worked capacitors right up against some of the hottest parts on the entire board.

I think comparisons like this tell a much more accurate story--there really isn't that much difference between same chipset motherboards in terms of performance, power consumption, etc. So it comes down to a few feature differences (like Thunderbird or not), the quality of the components used, how well the board is laid out, the BIOS features, and stability.

http://uk.hardware.info/comparisontable ... 143-317163

Others pointed out Asus moved their Fan Expert into BIOS which is great as their Windows software is usually buggy and bloated and it's now OS independent. But, at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates. I generally like Asus motherboards but as they cram more stuff into the BIOS there are more opportunities for significant bugs.

It would be nice if there were more corporate/enterprise grade motherboards with the latest chipsets, quality components, and decent feature sets without all the hype, fluff, and nonsense. But that's obviously not a priority in Taiwan.

[CA_Steve]

Others pointed out Asus moved their Fan Expert into BIOS which is great as their Windows software is usually buggy and bloated and it's now OS independent. But, at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates. I generally like Asus motherboards but as they cram more stuff into the BIOS there are more opportunities for significant bugs.

That's a bummer..and hopefully an early BIOS bug rather than a long term...feature.

[quest_for_silence]

at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates.

I've a couple of 97 Plus in service, though not in ITX size, but didn't get any issue with their fan control: may you kindly explain more?

[dev_guy]

at least on the Z97I Plus, it's really buggy even with their latest BIOS. I've had to factory reset the BIOS multiple times just to fix major fan settings problems. Multiple service tickets have been opened with Asus but they've never bothered to fix it despite a few BIOS updates.

I've a couple of 97 Plus in service, though not in ITX size, but didn't get any issue with their fan control: may you kindly explain more?

It's just been random problems. For example, they allow 20% fan minimums with PWM fans but only 60% minimums with a DC fan. But you switch to DC, mess around with some manual settings, then switch back to PWM and find you're now stuck at a 60% minimum with PWM with no way to get it back to 20% except to factory reset the entire BIOS and lose all your other settings. I also learned the hard way NOT to use the calibration feature as that tends to *really* mess things up with no way to fix it except to reset the entire BIOS. Sometimes you change settings and the "Apply" button is greyed out as if you didn't change anything so your changes don't stick.

And, for all the fancy over-styled graphics and controls, would it be too much to ask to see the current fan RPMs and applicable TEMPs displayed somewhere on the Fan Expert screen? That would make too much sense. But no, you have to exit the Fan Expert and go to an entirely different BIOS page to see those. And from that page you can't change the fan settings. It's very half-baked.

Asus has been repeatedly slammed for poor design, bugs, and bloat in their software applications and enhanced Asus-specific features. But in fairness to Asus, I'm not sure their main competitors (ASRock, Gigabyte, etc.) are much better. Software just isn't their strength. They seem to devote 95% of their application development efforts to making everything over-stylized, animated, game-themed, etc, rather than getting the functionality right and doing enough testing. Even gamers want stuff that works.

[quest_for_silence]

getting the functionality right and doing enough testing. Even gamers want stuff that works.

Doing extensive testings and strict QC procedures are more expensive than everything else in industry, that's mainly why the manufacturers don't do them for our enthusiast-level boards.

BTW, you may give a try to SpeedFan: given that it's not built in hardware, it is not OS independent (differently from a BIOS functionality), but nonetheless it may be somehow interesting, and less intrusive than the ASUS suite (though you wouldn't have any calibration procedure, if that matters).

At any rate, thanks for sharing your experience.

[fjf]

The Asus Z170-Premium seems to have it all: FanXpert3, thunderbolt3....You name it. Will be expensive, for sure, but that thing is TEMPTING!!: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z170-PREMIUM/

[~El~Jefe~]

I wish they would make a 6 core no hyperthreading chip like 1090T was.

I think the idea someone had of dx12 and the extra cores is a sound idea. the 91 watt TPD should be not super hard to quiet.

I cant see the point in getting a 6700 non-k when the 6600 i5 standard just exists for fairly cheap. Either 6700k or 6600k would make sense to me. You either want max power for something or good enough and lots less cash.

[CA_Steve]

The downside to these 'kitchen sink' motherboards is high idle power.

[~El~Jefe~]

I didnt know that. Hm. That is a problem. Do you know the range of differences? approximately

[boost]

Here's a comparison of the power consumption of different Z170 boards. The Z170 Premium has not been tested yet, the Z170 Deluxe seems the closest match.
I have the Z170 Deluxe and I wouldn'tcall 5W higher idle and 20W higher load compared to other Asus Z170 ATX boards a problem. For the lowest power consumption you'll have to buy a MSI board.

[~El~Jefe~]

very interesting post thanks

[pod03]

For the boards also tested by SPCR the idle figures are similar to those in this table: http://uk.hardware.info/comparisontable ... 478-317175

The best are lower than any recent mainstream Intel CPU/MOBO combination. Unfortunately they did not test a DH77EB or similar but I am hoping if I switch some features of from the MSI Z170A Gaming M5 and undervolt it I will be able to beat my DH77EB. Just waiting for a decent test of the M3 in case it is better. Anybody have one the can put a killawatt on?

[Tzupy]

There appears to be a bug in Skylake, that shows up when running prime95 with 768k test.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=421167

[CA_Steve]

There appears to be a bug in Skylake, that shows up when running prime95 with 768k test.
http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=421167

..and a fix is on the way.