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 Post subject: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:13 am 
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after getting wonderful recommendations and help from members here, i built a potential specification for my desktop.
then i decided to wait awhile for news about Intel's Z390 chipset mother boards cause it have been said they are just around the corner.

this is the latest article i found about it.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-z390-chi ... 70-rebadge
since my English and my knowledge in computers are not perfect , can someone help me with simple words to summarize it?
is the meaning that those new boards will not be on the market before around September, if at all.

is it says that they will work at 22nm and not 14nm?
what is the benefits of 14 over 22.
will it run cooler and consume less power?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:27 am 
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Summing up the article:
- the z390 chipset may or may not be released.
- if it is released, it may or may not be released in September.
- the z390 chipset may or may not just be a rebranded z370 chipset.

:)

Theoretically, if there were a Z390 chipset in 14mm, and the only additional physical feature was native USB 3.1 Gen 2, then it would probably use less power than the 22nm Z370. However, note the H370 chipset is in 14nm, has native USB 3.1 Gen 2 and has the same 6W TDP as the Z370.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:54 am 
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thank you.
yes i'm aware on those Features of the H370.
it just that for some other reasons i was interesting in the Z390.
i think i'll go on the H370 mobo.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:49 am 
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excuse me for my ignorance but i still don't understand the difference between turbo mode and overclocking.
i'll specify.
if i'm buying a mobo like h370, that don't have the option for overclocking, and use a cpu with spec. like: base frequency of 3.2 mhz or 3.7, and max turbo freq. of 4.6-4.7, will my pc run on demand with the turbo freq. , or it will do it only with manual overclocking, and if i'll not O.C it will never run faster then the base stock speed?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:22 am 
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If you don't overclock the CPU will run as fast as the motherboard will let it.
How fast is governed by a series of factors:
1. CPU temperature. (Better cooler => Faster CPU)
2. Power consumption by the CPU. (Some motherboards allow less power consumption than others.)
3. Base clock should be feasible over time with all cores engaged, turbo speed mostly when only one core is loaded with work. On a good motherboard with good cooling you could get better performance than that.

With overclocking you typically get all cores to run at or above turbo speed. (Using more power and requiring more cooling.)


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:07 am 
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Turbo doesn't rely on overclocking or overclockable (Z) motherboards. It's a built in feature that automatically sets a core or cores at higher than base frequency as needed by the task being run while staying within the designed power and thermal limits.

For example, the i5-8400's base clock is 2.8GHz and max turbo is 4GHz...but you'll only see max turbo if only one core is loaded. For 2 cores or more, here's the max turbo freq:
2-4C: 3.9GHz
5-6C: 3.8GHz

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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 am 
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thank you.
what is the meaning "CPU will run as fast as the motherboard will let it" ?
if the mobo spec says :
"Supports Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0
* The Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 support depends on the CPU types."
doe's it mean something to my question?

assuming all of the factors mentioned are in their ideal situation can the cpu reach it's max turbo without o.c ?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:35 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Turbo doesn't rely on overclocking or overclockable (Z) motherboards. It's a built in feature that automatically sets a core or cores at higher than base frequency as needed by the task being run while staying within the designed power and thermal limits.

For example, the i5-8400's base clock is 2.8GHz and max turbo is 4GHz...but you'll only see max turbo if only one core is loaded. For 2 cores or more, here's the max turbo freq:
2-4C: 3.9GHz
5-6C: 3.8GHz

thank you , that's answer my specific question.
just wanted to know if in some circumstances i'll benefit from the turbo speed without doing O.C


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:20 am 
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Turbo is awesome and useful for pretty much every task.

Overclocking is just something to consider if you really really like to mess around with PC tweaking and/or have some specific sets of tasks that could benefit from it.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 am 
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thank you, i'll stick only with the turbo.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:53 pm 
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One thing to take into account with turbo is that not always is applied on all cores, for example the turbo of the 8700 is 4.6gjz for one core only, multicore is lower I think 4.0 or around there.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:38 pm 
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yes, i understood it from the example CA_Steve gave.

i read in some article that single core working alone is a rare thing in regular usage of a pc.
it says there that even a browser with several tabs open, and an antivirus running in background will cause at list 2 cores working.
is it so?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Intel's approach is not to run with the lowest number of cores at the lowest speeds but the maximum number of cores at the highest speed. This is on the basis of getting the current workload on the processor done more quickly, and in power terms more efficiently. One effect of this is that the number of cores in use, their speed and processor utilisation varies constantly. For example when I run my antivirus in scan mode it maxes out all cores at the fastest speed.

Depending on which H370 board you choose this fastest speed with all cores working would not necessarily be the official one set by Intel. Taking the i5 8400 as an example the normal pattern for the turbo mode is 3.8Ghz for all cores or 4.0Ghz for one core. However some H370 boards such as the Asus ROG STRIX H370-F Gaming feature multi-core enhancement that by default will run all six cores at 4.00Ghz. To do this the CPU voltage is increased slightly. It does improve performance but the processor will run hotter under load. This is not an issue provided adequate cooling is provided.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:27 am 
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talking about the h370 mobo i really have a dilemma between asus ROG STRIX H370-F GAMING and asus TUF H370-PRO GAMING (WI-FI).
both have display port which i want for my 4k monitor.
the ROG STRIX have better audio chip.
there is the thing you have wrote lodestar "by default will run all six cores at 4.00Ghz", which i'm not sure if it's a good thing to me or not , since as you said' it'll run hotter.
the main thing to my dilemma is the wifi feature in TUF H370-PRO GAMING (WI-FI) which i maybe planning to use.
i can of course use a separate wi fi card, but i'm not sure it'll be the same quality that the integrated one with intel software :
Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac*3
Supports dual band frequency 2.4/5 GHz
Supports MU-MIMO
and it also have a Bluetooth feature.
for example will this card be equal in performance like the integrated intel one, and is there any advantage of having an integrated one beside not having additional component inside the case ?
or maybe it's the opposite. not having a wifi chip on board will make it run a bit cooler.
https://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RNX-AC1 ... =UTF8&s=pc

before my final decision can someone point to other important advantages of the ROG STRIX H370-F GAMING over the TUF H370-PRO GAMING (WI-FI), if there are any.
i don't care about lights.
is there any building, cooling or fan control, better then on the TUF H370-PRO GAMING (WI-FI) ?
here are the specs. of both of them:
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-S ... fications/

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-H ... fications/


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:59 am 
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nimo11 wrote:
...there is the thing you have wrote lodestar "by default will run all six cores at 4.00Ghz", which i'm not sure if it's a good thing to me or not , since as you said' it'll run hotter.
The default setting in the BIOS can be changed to the standard Intel setup if you want.
nimo11 wrote:
...for example will this card be equal in performance like the integrated intel one, and is there any advantage of having an integrated one beside not having additional component inside the case ? or maybe it's the opposite. not having a wifi chip on board will make it run a bit cooler.
Given the choice I would opt for built in wifi because it's a lot more convenient. Bear in mind that the theoretical speed through put of wifi chips or cards is normally well above the speed of the internet connection. There is some loss of speed through the use of wireless and encryption but you can always test the speed if you are at all concerned about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:28 am 
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thank you lodestar.
since i'm not 100% sure if i'll use wifi, or cable connection ( which is always better) i'm open to let go the wifi feature if there are other advantages of the rog strix h370.
read some reviews about it.
it has a heat sink on one of the M.2 slots , which i understand there is no on the tuf-h370, but they put it on the PCIe 3.0 2X slot and not on the PCIe 3.0 4X whuch i'll be use with my ssd m.2 drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:36 am 
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nimo11 wrote:
i read in some article that single core working alone is a rare thing in regular usage of a pc. ...
That's a matter of definition.
* Many programs only make use of one core at a time.
* You have many programs ("processes") running in the background all the time, but they're mostly very low on CPU usage.
* The result is that often one core is working hard while the rest of the cores are used at <10% of their capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:48 am 
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thank you Olle P.
my final dilemma is now between those two asus motherboards.
i'll be glad to have some advice about it.
couldn't find any review that compare between the two.

the ideal for me will be h 370 board with integrated wifi and Audio CODEC S1220A , but unfortunately couldn't find one.
the H370 AORUS GAMING 3 WIFI has the better audio chip and wifi, but dos'n't support 4k 60 hz graphic.
looks like they trying to save some on each mobo.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 am 
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nimo11 wrote:
... looks like they trying to save some on each mobo.
As I've understood it the H-series of chipsets are used for the most low end boards and then one should be thrilled to find any fancy stuff there.
With your wants and demands you should be better off looking at motherboards with B360, the "business" chip. There you're more likely to find support for 4K monitors and possibly the other stuff you want as well... obviously at some monetary cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:33 am 
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from what i read it's kind of the opposite.
for several reasons the b360 is a bit lower mobo chip then the h370.
in addition, i checked all of the b 360 from asus, gigabyte and msi and none of them doesn't have the whole package i'm looking for.
again , i'll have to choose between an integrated wifi or better audio chip.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:49 am 
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this is what i got today from ASUS after asking them about the differences between rog strix h370-f gaming and TUF H370-PRO GAMING (WI-FI).
"Both Motherboards will work based on the fact that you will not be overclocking. The TUF Series Motherboards are built for longevity with the backing of a 5 years warranty as well" .


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:04 pm 
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anyway this is the list of components i'm planing to order.
all of them from one supplier which will also assemble all in it's laboratory.
if anyone have some remarks he is welcome to write it.

i7-8700 cpu

TUF-H370-PRO-GAMING-WIFI - ASUS

HyperX
16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 CL13

Samsung -
250GB SSD 970 EVO M.2 NVMe (M2

NH-U14S - Noctua -
140mm CPU Cooler

Corsair -
650W RMx Series™ RM650x — 80PLUS® Gold Certified Fully Modular PSU

DEF-C-BK - Fractal Design -
Define C

in addition to this i will use my current hdd drive for storage.
also have an AMD GPU, that i'll may use.
in case i'll need one, i have an optical drive on my current pc which will go for my daughter use.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:12 am 
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lodestar wrote:
Taking the i5 8400 as an example the normal pattern for the turbo mode is 3.8Ghz for all cores or 4.0Ghz for one core. However some H370 boards such as the Asus ROG STRIX H370-F Gaming feature multi-core enhancement that by default will run all six cores at 4.00Ghz.


Are you speaking from first-hand experience? If so I would love you know how you did it. I have a STRIX H370-F and I am NOT able to enable MCE on it (related settings are all greyed out).


Last edited by BrianF on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:15 am 
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Olle P wrote:
* The result is that often one core is working hard while the rest of the cores are used at <10% of their capacity.


And that is why you will (almost) never, ever see Intel's published Turbo Boost speed: it is practically impossible for even a perfectly clean install of Windows to NOT load more than more core. Even just a 1% load a 2nd core means no max turbo clock for you. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:24 am 
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nimo11 wrote:
if anyone have some remarks he is welcome to write it.


I recently put together a very very similar outfit (STRIX H370 with an 8500, but same RAM, PS, Case, etc). I do think you will want to plan for at least one additional fan for the top-front position in the Define C. In mine I moved both included fans to the front and added an NF-S12(Redux) at the rear.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel's Z390 chipset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:27 pm 
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BrianF wrote:
nimo11 wrote:
if anyone have some remarks he is welcome to write it.


I recently put together a very very similar outfit (STRIX H370 with an 8500, but same RAM, PS, Case, etc). I do think you will want to plan for at least one additional fan for the top-front position in the Define C. In mine I moved both included fans to the front and added an NF-S12(Redux) at the rear.


thank you.
i'll consider your advice.
first i'll start with the build in fans and see what's going on with temperatures.


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