Looking for a high quality PSU (< 500 W)

[martinweiss]

I am in the process of building a system which will probably be based on the Asus Z97 Deluxe motherboard, with a Haswell i5 CPU. I will use onboard graphics, and I will probably be running 4 SATA disk drives.

I have been looking for PSUs around 500 watt, but I can't seem to find any platinum PSUs. The Corsair AX760i should be a good PSU according to what I have read so far, but surely it's going to be overkill by a large margin.

I would really appreciate a bit of help here. Any suggestions?

[CA_Steve]

Welcome to SPCR.

Haswell i5 + mobo and fans + 4 HDDs is not a lot of load. Worst case load is < 200W (including simultaneous drive spin up at boot) and normal load is 100W or less. If you go with a 500W class supply, it'll be operating in the <20% load region where the efficiency is a steep slope. Platinum buys you nothing here. Even in the flat part of the curve, there's just a 2% diff between Gold and Platinum - that's 2W at your load.

Unless you plan to add a significant discrete GPU, you are better off down in the 300-400W range. Seasonic G-360 is cheap and quiet. Be Quiet! E9-400 is very quiet. Corsair RM450 is passive at your loads.

[Abula]

I have been looking for PSUs around 500 watt, but I can't seem to find any platinum PSUs.

Here are some,

SeaSonic SS-400FL2 Active PFC F3 400W 80 PLUS Platinum Fanless ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Seasonic ATX 460 Active PFC F3 80 PLUS Platinum Fanless ATX12V/EPS12V Power Supply SS-460FL2
KingWin Lazer Platinum Series 550 Watt Power Supply with Universal Modular Cables LZP-550
Rosewill SilentNight Series 500W 80 Plus Platinum Certified Modular Design ATX12V/EPS12V Power Supply SilentNight-500

But i agree with steve, the RM450 should be a good alternative, as its fully modular, semifanless, and gold rated.

[martinweiss]

Thanks for your suggestions. I have not read many positive things about the RM450.

I'm currently leaning towards the Seasonic 400W or 520W fanless.

Should I get the 520W version if I would put in a decent graphics card later?

How much would the jump from 400W to 520W mean in terms of "regular use" power consumption?

[lodestar]

The maximum 12V current rating is higher for the 520w model at 43A. As future graphics cards are likely to be much more power efficient this could be less of a factor. The just introduced GTX 970 and GTX 980 cards are an example.

From my local supplier the Silverstone SST-NJ520 Nightjar Platinum 520W is slightly cheaper (and is silver not black) but otherwise seems to be identical to the Seasonic 520w.

[quest_for_silence]

I would really appreciate a bit of help here. Any suggestions?

As said by many others, Platinum won't offer that much more than Gold, efficiency-wise, and according to me checking those data on several reviews should be part of your homework. I would add that stating your location may help advicing (so please take note that all the efficiency measures I quote are made at 230V, 120V figures are actually lower).

Given that, with reference to your last questions, I beg your pardon but those seem a tad meaningless: a mainstream i5 gaming rig should draw around 250W on real loads, 300W with really high end cards, so it seems pretty useless to spend more money on a more powerful PSU.

Efficiency wise at that max power level the difference between a 400W or a 500W unit among the same series (even if they should be two different platforms, with reference to the Seasonics) are very often limited to the the first decimal digit at most, so there's about no actual efficiency delta (we're talking about less than 0.5W at 250W). If you compare different series, even if the units sport the same certification level, your mileage may vary, and you should check by yourself as homework, but as a gross estimate you shouldn't find any figure higher than about 5W among Gold/Platinum PSUs.

About the expected idle power draw, it mostly depends of the SATA drive of choice: talking about contemporary mechanical disks, a 2.5" drive is in the 0.8-1.6W range per drive, a sub-6000rpm 3.5" is in the 4-5W range per drive, a 7200rpm 3.5" is in the 7-8W range per drive. A solid state option would be even lower, even around 0.5W per drive.

So your idle power draw may come from about 30W up to about 65W (depending of the motherboard you may experience some differences, a guess estimate may be around 5W).

At the lower end of this range, a 520 Platinum has an efficiency better than around 77% (25W), the smaller one is better than around 74% (23W), a Corsair RM should be better than around 72% (25W), so it's mainly series-dependant. Anyway, from this very limited survey the difference can be up something less than 2-2,5W of wasted power.
At the upper end (4 x 7200 rpm drives) the efficiency delta between the two Seasonics is already under the 0.5% (less than 0.5W of more wasted heat for the lower wattage unit), while the Gold rated RM shound face a larger 2,5-3% less efficiency (less than around 2.5W of more wasted heat for the RM).

At low cpu loads the power draw mainly depends of the motherboard of choice, and above all of what you're doing of those 4 SATA drives: the added power over idle may account averagely from 1W to maybe 10W for the motherboard "factor", while for the drives your mileage may vary. Figure out by yourself how much high the various efficiencies should be.

The addition of a discrete graphics may alter this scenario, particularly if you have more than one monitor.

Summarizing, there's no need for the 520W unit under any circumstance: if you feel more comfortable putting more money of that somehow better built unit, you may do it, you will gain better components and maybe very sligthly more efficiency (sample variance matter).
But if you go for a ANY Seasonic-built Platinum PSU pick carefully your supplier: the initial RMA for those units seems moderately high (around 10%) and mostly due to sound-related issues (whine and the likes), so it's better that your seller are one who don't put objections to any RMA request, in case (an unfortunate case, but shit happens).

[martinweiss]

Thanks quest_for_silence. That is a lot of stuff to consider.

I just ordered the Seasonic 520W fanless PSU, since I don't really know what the future might bring for this system. Maybe a more power-hungry processor as well as a graphics card. It will go in a Corsair Carbide Air 540 case.

Thanks for the suggestions and help

I am in Denmark by the way.

[Abula]

I just ordered the Seasonic 520W fanless PSU, since I don't really know what the future might bring for this system. Maybe a more power-hungry processor as well as a graphics card. It will go in a Corsair Carbide Air 540 case.

For the 540 i would go with a Semi passive PSU, the X520 has a strick by seasonic orientation, and its not sideways like the 540, get the KingWin Lazer Platinum Series 550 Watt Power Supply with Universal Modular Cables LZP-550, its based on a very good design of SUPERFLOWER, its has been reviewed by SPCR Kingwin Lazer Platinum 550W Power Supply and got the editors choice.

[martinweiss]

Hmm. I just cancelled the order. I should have looked at this. Thanks for pointing it out

That means I am now back debating whether I should get a Be Quiet! or one of the other Seasonic PSUs. I'd like a platinum PSU (only choice is Seasonic 660W then?), or a lower powered gold PSU (that would be Be Quiet!).

What about the other Seasonic PSUs, do they also have the same orientation requirement?

I am using a single Dell U2711 monitor (2560 x 1440 pixels) at the moment.

[quest_for_silence]

That means I am now back debating whether I should get a Be Quiet! or one of the other Seasonic PSUs.

Whether the main concern is overall noise, the debate about a 500W PSU should be about a Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 10 550W, an Enermax Platimax 500W, or eventually a Kingwin LZP-550/SuperFlower SF-550P14PE.

Whether you wanted to stay fanless, the debate would be just about price/availability-wise among the various Chieftec GPS-500C/Kingwin STR-500/Rosewill Silent Night 500/Super Flower SF-500P14FG (those are all the very same unit).

Obviously IMO/IME.

[Abula]

What about the other Seasonic PSUs, do they also have the same orientation requirement?

To my knowledge only the fanless seasonic have that warning. My X660 and both of my SS860XP2 didn't, but their fan operates based on heat, so when ever certain threshold is reached the fan will start regardless of the load the psu is having, but on the fanless their only means of cooling is the convection of the air passing through, and were design to have them with the holes up, that not to say a side ways wont work, as it does have some holes on the sides, weathers its healthy for the psu, or enough to cool down is whats in question. Now on the 540 the second chamber thats has no active fans on it, so the PSU is practically on its own, given that it has direct contact with the exterior with the side holes on the back panel, idk if its enough, but i would feel safer on the 540 with a semi fanless psu.

[quest_for_silence]

That means I am now back debating whether I should get a Be Quiet! or one of the other Seasonic PSUs.

Whether the main concern is overall noise, the debate about a 500W PSU should be about a Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 10 550W, an Enermax Platimax 500W, or eventually a Kingwin LZP-550/SuperFlower SF-550P14PE.

Just forgot to mention: the BeQuiet! E9/E10 is another extremely quiet performer up to about 60% of the rated power (and very good above that), but the 500W CM unit price is often enough close to the above mentioned PSUs, although quality wise it is somehow inferior, so IMO it should not be preferred.

[martinweiss]

I have compared prices here in Denmark:
- Enermax Platimax EPM500AWT: 110 eur
- Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 550W: 150 eur
- Be Quiet! E10 500W: 94 eur
- Be Quiet! E10 CM 500W: 102 eur
- Seasonic Platinum 660W: 153 eur
- Corsair AX760i: 176 eur

The Enermax looks cheap, but I have read that the quality isn't as high as other platinum PSUs... Hmm. I'm still leaning towards the Seasonic. Or maybe the Dark Power Pro.

[quest_for_silence]

I have compared prices here in Denmark:
- Enermax Platimax EPM500AWT: 110 eur
- Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 550W: 150 eur
- Be Quiet! E10 500W: 94 eur
- Be Quiet! E10 CM 500W: 102 eur
- Seasonic Platinum 660W: 153 eur

The Enermax looks cheap, but I have read that the quality isn't as high as other platinum PSUs... Hmm. I'm still leaning towards the Seasonic. Or maybe the Dark Power Pro.

In my experience you're just wrong, as a matter of fact the Enermax is an "halo" product, so it doesn't look cheap and the build quality is as high the Seasonic: I have both a Seasonic Platinum Fanless 460W and that Enermax, and side by side it's maybe the Seasonic to look like a bit more cheapish (comparatively, not in absolute terms).
On the other hand, the Enermax is a tad older design, so it's less performing than the latest Seasonic KM3/XP3 platforms, but still absolutely adequate.
Nonetheless, noise-wise the Enermax is better than any current fanned Seasonic, as also certified by the relevant SPCR reviews.
The BeQuiet DPP 10 is a similar product, different casing that you may like more, electrically not top notch but more than fine: IMHO the quality of internal parts is high but maybe it isn't as high as in the Enermax and Seasonics (set aside the precious fan).
Even the BeQuiet is quieter than all the fanned Seasonics, as you may read in the relevant SPCR reviews.

[martinweiss]

Thanks!

I didn't mean literally that the power supply looks cheap. I'm sorry for the poor wording.

What I meant was that it seemed cheap (price-wise) compared to the other PSUs that I listed

Would the Corsair AX760i be a stupid buy for me?

[CA_Steve]

Would the Corsair AX760i be a stupid buy for me?

Yes.

I like the Be Quiet! E10 CM 500W. Modular cabling, good efficiency, inaudible fan.

[quest_for_silence]

Would the Corsair AX760i be a stupid buy for me?

Yes.

+1

I like the Be Quiet! E10 CM 500W. Modular cabling, good efficiency, inaudible fan.

It's mainly a matter of local pricing: here the lowest quote for a Platimax is 92, the Dark is now at 118 and the E10 is 96, so there's no or little convenience to buy this latter. On the other hand the smaller fixed cabling E10-400W is just 64 euros, and that's a killer price, noise-wise.

[lodestar]

Given the potential power draw of the proposed system a hybrid supply might spend all of its time in the fan off mode and being positioned on its side might not be the best. Because it is vented around the sides the Seasonic 520w Platinum fanless could be cooled more efficiently in this configuration. However at least some air flow is needed for PSUs running without a fan and that is a possible problem given the design of the case. Turning to the choice of PSU, the potential shortcoming with the E10 CM 500W is capacitor quality. This would not be an issue with the Seasonic Platinum 660W. Although the most expensive at 153 eur this PSU has the fundamental advantage that it can be switched between normal and hybrid modes. So there would be no need to take a chance on which mode of operation might be the most suitable.

[quest_for_silence]

Turning to the choice of PSU, the potential shortcoming with the E10 CM 500W is capacitor quality. This would not be an issue with the Seasonic Platinum 660W. Although the most expensive at 153 eur this PSU has the fundamental advantage that it can be switched between normal and hybrid modes. So there would be no need to take a chance on which mode of operation might be the most suitable.

Given the expected power draw, even a 500W unit is an overkill, as even with four hungry hard drives that's a matter for a Pico, efficiency and sound wise.
Probably the OP should better define his needs, as a good graphics card may draw from 50W to 500W: at first glance a fanned Seasonic Platinum wouldn't seem the best option under several points or view, but with reference to the normal/hybrid cooling, I think it cannot be defined that quiet when in "normal" mode, here on SPCR, so that it's not such an advantage.

[martinweiss]

I'm sorry for not being more specific. I am building this system for everyday use. I will occasionally be running some MATLAB simulations, which will be very processor-intensive. I am also going to use the machine for music production with loads of virtual instruments, also a processor-intensive task.

I am not planning on adding a graphics card at the moment, but I might at some point (I have no idea what's assumed to be a good graphics card these days). For now I'd like to use the onboard graphics chip to drive my U2711 monitor (as I mentioned, the resolution is 2560 x 1440 pixels). As previously mentioned I will probably go with an ASUS Z97 Deluxe motherboard, i5 Haswell processor and 16 GB of RAM.

First on my list is to find a PSU of high quality (wrt. efficiency, durability and performance). I'd also like the PSU to be quiet, that's one of the reasons I'm here

If there's only a small difference in the efficiency between a 4-500 W PSU and the 660 W Seasonic, then I might go with the Seasonic because of the assumed better component quality. I assume that a higher rated PSU (all other things being equal) will be quieter. What I would be sacrificing is low-power efficiency, right?

[lodestar]

What I would be sacrificing is low-power efficiency, right?

To retain the future option of a separate graphics card the Seasonic X-660 Platinum would be an OK choice. Have no doubt that at normal power draw levels this is a very efficient power supply, in the region of 90 to 92%. In terms of lower-power efficiency, a Haswell system at idle can draw very little power. That's because the CPU drops its speed to 800 Mhz and also undervolts to 0.7V. If say the overall power draw under these conditions was 30w, I would expect the efficiency of a Platinum Seasonic PSU to be around 80%. So the PSU might draw somewhere between 36 or 37w from the mains supply. Not so efficient in percentage terms but it is only 7w at most. This is also why the unit under these conditions is fine without the fan running. But in my view extended hybrid running does raise the question of capacitor quality and on that issue there are no reservations about the Seasonic Platinum units.

[quest_for_silence]

I might go with the Seasonic because of the assumed better component quality. I assume that a higher rated PSU (all other things being equal) will be quieter. What I would be sacrificing is low-power efficiency, right?

All those assumptions are, unfortunately, wrong. IMO, of course.

Seasonic made up its name in the last decade, so that nowadays, even when it isn't up to the past glory days, they can bank on that name to stand out over the competition: just like IBM in the seventies, no one has never been fired to have bought an IBM product, even when IBM wasn't the best candidate.

As ODM Delta and Flextronics are better, as well probably Etasis and Zippy (not used in consumer markets).
As OEMs better than any current Seasonic are again Delta (Antec) and Flextronics (Corsair).
At the same level of Seasonic there's the chinese "nouvelle vague", like Super Flower, Great Wall and Chicony. Impervio-Enermax at his best is at least on par with Seasonic, but now their best unit are outsourced mostly to CWT.
Almost always the top end units made by ATNG (Fractal), CWT (Corsair, Enermax), Enhance (Corsair, Cooler Master), Sirfa (Thermaltake DPS) are as good as the Seasonics, and when an ODM is willing to pay the requested high prices for their high standard QC processes, even AcBel and Huntkey may deliver better products than current Seasonics, build-wise.

Summarizing, buying a Seasonic today is just a shortcut to avoid verifying actual figures, sort of a "common wisdom" to not taking care to check whether the promises are fulfilled. Don't get me wrong: Seasonic are very solid units but today, alyhough they're among my favourites, they're not necessarily the best ones, period.

With reference to your requirements, at your expected power draw (I mean now, without any just foreseable discrete graphics) you may think that a very cheap Corsair CX-430 is somehow better than a Seasonic Platinum 660 in "normal" mode: up to 80-100W the 12V regulation is better than 0.5% for the Corsair vs the 0.6% of the Seasonic, the 12V ripple is around 10mV for the Corsair vs around 20mV for the Seasonic, and the Corsair would run a tad quieter. The cheap parts inside the CX won't be stressed by that low power level, so that you will likely retire it from service before it fail. And here in Italy for the same money of a P660 (128 euros) you would buy almost four CX430 (36 euros).

Set aside this sort of joke, you wrote: "First on my list is to find a PSU of high quality (wrt. efficiency, durability and performance). I'd also like the PSU to be quiet, that's one of the reasons I'm here" and I hold on my previous recommedations.
Quality-wise and reliability-wise Platimax, Dark Power, Golden King and derivatives are at least as good as the Seasonics. The Straight Power is not, it sports a less advanced design (as the Xilenser/Dark Power) and too many second-tier parts (however it has a comfortably long warranty). It might worth to note that the latest Seasonics seem to suffer of quality control/production run issues, with a subsequent RMA ratio in excess of the one of other high quality platforms in the market.
Performance wise the Seasonics XP3/KM3 may have a slight edge on the Golden King, and a more consistent margin over Enermax and BeQuiet: IMO/IME those margins don't mean anything better for the Seasonics either in absolute terms, or even more with reference to the expected very low power draw.
Noise wise Platimax, Dark Power and Golden King derivatives are surely better than any fanned Seasonic, either in hybrid or normal mode: they will run cooler than a Seasonic in hybrid cooling, and they should last longer than a Seasonic in hybrid cooling. With the midrange Straight Power E10 your mileage may vary but I'm fairly confident that at least up to 200W DC it will be quieter than any fanned XP3 Platinum or KM3 X-series (which are the same PSU, more or less).
Money wise, noise wise and efficiency wise your best bet is IMHO the Straight Power E10 400W, and without any discrete graphics the inner quality is maybe still overabundant to achieve a long term reliability.
Second best, money wise, quality wise and noise wise is the Platimax (but as many first-time Platinum unit it's not that efficient at your very low loads, and however marginally less efficient than latest Seasonics at any power level).

And with reference to your last assumption "a higher rated PSU (all other things being equal) will be quieter", that's quite the contrary: often that's false, and that's false particularly for latest Seasonics (with the >1kW units which are rather noisy in absolute terms, IMO).

[quest_for_silence]

Money wise, noise wise and efficiency wise your best bet is IMHO the Straight Power E10 400W, and without a discrete graphics the inner quality is maybe still overabundant.
Second best, money wise, quality wise and noise wise is the Platimax (as many first-time Platinum unit it's not that efficient at your very low loads).

I forgot to mention that whether even so you preferred to go with a more expensive Seasonic, IMO there's nothing really bad: whether you won't really gain efficiency, quietness or quality, peace of mind is priceless.

[klappa]

At the lower end of this range, a 520 Platinum has an efficiency better than around 77% (25W), the smaller one is better than around 74% (23W), a Corsair RM should be better than around 72% (25W), so it's mainly series-dependant. Anyway, from this very limited survey the difference can be up something less than 2-2,5W of wasted power.
At the upper end (4 x 7200 rpm drives) the efficiency delta between the two Seasonics is already under the 0.5% (less than 0.5W of more wasted heat for the lower wattage unit), while the Gold rated RM shound face a larger 2,5-3% less efficiency (less than around 2.5W of more wasted heat for the RM).

What do you mean by efficiency better than what?

What's the best passive psu nowadays?

[MikeC]

What's the best passive psu nowadays?

There are only a handful & most are decent. Look here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_PSUs

[quest_for_silence]

At the lower end of this range, a 520 Platinum has an efficiency better than around 77% (25W), the smaller one is better than around 74% (23W), a Corsair RM should be better than around 72% (25W), so it's mainly series-dependant. Anyway, from this very limited survey the difference can be up something less than 2-2,5W of wasted power.
At the upper end (4 x 7200 rpm drives) the efficiency delta between the two Seasonics is already under the 0.5% (less than 0.5W of more wasted heat for the lower wattage unit), while the Gold rated RM shound face a larger 2,5-3% less efficiency (less than around 2.5W of more wasted heat for the RM).

What do you mean by efficiency better than what?

I didn't understand your question: do you mind to rephrase?

[klappa]

At the lower end of this range, a 520 Platinum has an efficiency better than around 77% (25W), the smaller one is better than around 74% (23W), a Corsair RM should be better than around 72% (25W), so it's mainly series-dependant. Anyway, from this very limited survey the difference can be up something less than 2-2,5W of wasted power.
At the upper end (4 x 7200 rpm drives) the efficiency delta between the two Seasonics is already under the 0.5% (less than 0.5W of more wasted heat for the lower wattage unit), while the Gold rated RM shound face a larger 2,5-3% less efficiency (less than around 2.5W of more wasted heat for the RM).

What do you mean by efficiency better than what?

I didn't understand your question: do you mind to rephrase?

Seems i forgot about this thread. Sorry! What i wondered about what you meant by better than around 77% (25W)? I own the Super Flower Golden Silent. Is it still any good today? The only downside with it is the short cables and the non modular 12V,5V and 3V cables.

[quest_for_silence]

What i wondered about what you meant by better than around 77% (25W)?

A smidgen in excess of.

I own the Super Flower Golden Silent. Is it still any good today?

The SF Golden Silent 500 is still top notch, IMO.

[klappa]

What i wondered about what you meant by better than around 77% (25W)?

A smidgen in excess of.

I own the Super Flower Golden Silent. Is it still any good today?

The SF Golden Silent 500 is still top notch, IMO.

In excess of what? It's efficiency is around 77% when drawing around 25W?

Nice to know! Thanks!