140 mm long PSU for Antec ISK 600

[morganITA]

Hi folks!
As the OP, I need your help choosing my new quiet/silent PSU with this size limitation.
It must fit in a Antec ISK 600 case. The manufacturer declares 150 x 140 x 86 mm as max measurements.
My setup:
- MSI Z87I Gaming AC
- Intel i5 4460
- Noctua NH-L9i
- 2x4 GB RAM
- SSD Crucial MX100 512GB
- 2 TB HD
- Msi GTX 670 Power Edition OC

Most of the time it will be under idle/low-medium load, playing h.264-5 movies (especially at night) or internet navigation.
I don't care about noise at full load, e.g. while playing some triple A game.
The case have a 120 rear fan too that I could think to change with a better one if it doesn't run silent enough.
What do you think guys? Consumption should be around 370W according online calculator. All the PSU I would like to buy, from the Corsair RM450 to the Seasonic X-400, are bigger and I'm afraid it could be a problem to accommodate the VGA (which is 267 mm long). I haven't considered sfx psu because (please correct if I'm wrong) they are usually louder than regular atx size psu and cost much more.
All hints are welcome, thanks!

[morganITA]

-double-

[quest_for_silence]

It must fit in a Antec ISK 600 case.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Ante ... nstpsu.jpg

The manufacturer declares 150 x 140 x 86 mm as max measurements.

No, actually they don't: even better, they don't declare the PSU clearance (while they declare the GPU clearance, 317mm).

Consumption should be around 370W according online calculator.

As usual, they are wrong (overestimating): more likely around 250W DC while gaming, probably a tad less.

All hints are welcome, thanks!

The CPU cooler is way undersized and without any apparent reason.

[morganITA]

No, actually they don't: even better, they don't declare the PSU clearance (while they declare the GPU clearance, 317mm).

http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=706 ... 033&lan=nz Scrolling down in feature list they wrote "Compatible with all ATX standard power supplies (140 x 150 x 86mm)"
My fear is that the PSU could interfer with the final edge of the VGA

As usual, they are wrong (overestimating): more likely around 250W DC while gaming, probably a tad less.

I was pretty sure of that but I was searching for a more powerful psu thinking of a future VGA/CPU upgrade

The CPU cooler is way undersized and without any apparent reason.

I couldn't mount a low tower profile cooler in the case without renouncing at the top 3.5 HDD cage, that's why I selected the NH-L9. But I would consider any other good one!
PS: which Seasonic is the one mounted in previously attached photo?

[quest_for_silence]

http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=706 ... 033&lan=nz Scrolling down in feature list they wrote "Compatible with all ATX standard power supplies (140 x 150 x 86mm)"

I thought I have been quite clear: compare what they said against their declared GPU clearance, so that you can easily check the different terminology they used. They didn't want to state that info, period.

My fear is that the PSU could interfer with the final edge of the VGA

There's full of images on the web to help you to assess that risk, starting from the relevant web reviews (like OCaholic, or hardwareluxx).

I was pretty sure of that but I was searching for a more powerful psu thinking of a future VGA/CPU upgrade

I'm sorry, but I don't buy into those fairytales.

I couldn't mount a low tower profile cooler in the case without renouncing at the top 3.5 HDD cage, that's why I selected the NH-L9. But I would consider any other good one!

Between the dwarf L9i and any >160mm cooler there are several options: you may check SPCR reviews and recommended list.

which Seasonic is the one mounted in previously attached photo?

A G-360, I think.

[morganITA]

I thought I have been quite clear: compare what they said against their declared GPU clearance, so that you can easily check the different terminology they used. They didn't want to state that info, period.

You're right! Sorry but my english isn't that good!

There's full of images on the web to help you to assess that risk, starting from the relevant web reviews (like OCaholic, or hardwareluxx).

Thanks, never read their reviews 'til now

I'm sorry, but I don't buy into those fairytales.

Ahahah! Well, good intention is always there, what it lacks sometimes is money! But I really think my GTX 670 will be not enough to play in the next 3-4 year. And I would like to keep the rest of my setup as long as possible. So a vga upgrade is actually near certainty. It's also true that nowadays vga become more efficient and smaller every day, so power consumption shouldn't be a problem in future.

Between the dwarf L9i and any >160mm cooler there are several options: you may check SPCR reviews and recommended list.

Forgot to mention I read in others review that max height for cpu cooler is 170 mm. Sure I'll find what it fits me better in recommended list

A G-360, I think.

Yes indeed. And I just saw the gold award earned in SPCR review, definitely on my shopping list. Even if it's not modular and this could be a problem in such little case...
So, considering no issues with spaces, which could be a wise choice for my setup? Do you think I could aim to a fanless psu (like seasonic x series)? At this moment, on my old atx setup, the only noise I can hear came from the S12II 430W so I would like to give it his deserved retirement.

Many thanks for clearing my doubts. If you have more advices please don't hesitate!
Ciao!

[CA_Steve]

If you already have the case, why not stuff the components that you have plus your S12II 430W in there and see how much clearance there is? The reviews I read just spout Antec's 140mm spec and fail to measure the clearances. It may be that a longer modular PSU might squeak in...it'll be conflict between the PSU and the gfx card length.

The G360 is a decent PSU if you didn't have a gaming gfx card. With the gfx card, it's fan noise will be ramping up...maybe not noticable with the existing GTX670, but might become noticable with the newer gen (quieter) cards. Also, it might not have the PCIe graphics card connectors you need.

My go to suggestion for 170mm CPU clearance is the Scythe Kotetsu. Note - there is conflict between tall tower coolers in that case and the top HDD tray - you won't be able to use the tray.

[morganITA]

If you already have the case, why not stuff the components that you have plus your S12II 430W in there and see how much clearance there is? The reviews I read just spout Antec's 140mm spec and fail to measure the clearances. It may be that a longer modular PSU might squeak in...it'll be conflict between the PSU and the gfx card length.

The G360 is a decent PSU if you didn't have a gaming gfx card. With the gfx card, it's fan noise will be ramping up...maybe not noticable with the existing GTX670, but might become noticable with the newer gen (quieter) cards. Also, it might not have the PCIe graphics card connectors you need.

My go to suggestion for 170mm CPU clearance is the Scythe Kotetsu. Note - there is conflict between tall tower coolers in that case and the top HDD tray - you won't be able to use the tray.

Well, I still haven't the case but it's the only thing I'm sure to buy. I saw it in person and I fell in love, but I couldn't take a look inside to have an exact idea of internal space.

All setups I found online use a "small" atx psu (nobody the quiet ones I am looking for), except the one from ocaholic.ch who use (I think) a bitfenix fury 550 http://www.ocaholic.ch/modules/xcgal/al ... 00_059.jpg (150x86x160 mm) in combination with a Sapphire R9 280X Dual-X (262x112x34 mm) which is almost big as my MSI GTX 670 (267x117x38 mm).

I didn't know about the Scythe Kotetsu, I really liked SPCR review. It should be enough and quiet for an i5 4460 running most of the time at low load. Plus, it should have less space issue than a top-blow cooler regarding ram modules, pci slot and other stuff around the socket. By the way, I choose the MSI Z87I Gaming AC because it's the cheapest mb I found with AC WiFi and a layout that doesn't look problematic.
In fact, I was thinking to take off the HDD top tray and mount the HDD in the perpendicular clearance, attached on the low right bottom side of the case http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Ante ... idehdd.jpg. Do you think this kind of montage could cause vibration issue with a 2 TB caviar green?

Discarting the G360, what are the silent modular/semi-modular psu I could use on this config?
I found 2 list of short psu. Do you spot something that worth to buy in the 140-150 mm range?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1256282/shor ... e-friendly
http://www.overclock.net/t/1537311/shor ... 2-feb-2015

I'm sorry I'm stealing this thread with different subjects, should I create a separate personal one?
Thx for you suggestion Steve!

[CA_Steve]

I split the thread for you.

I think it would be a poor use of time for me to provide an alternative PSU that's > 140mm until you have the case in hand and can measure the restrictions yourself. At 140mm, the Silverstone Strider Plus Gold ST55F-G could work.

[quest_for_silence]

At 140mm, the Silverstone Strider Plus Gold ST55F-G could work.

I'd avoid that unit, it has a minimum fan speed of about 1000rpm.

[quest_for_silence]

So a vga upgrade is actually near certainty.

Currently any single GPU setup can run off an high quality 450W PSU.

a layout that doesn't look problematic.

I wouldn't be so sure, it's a bit too near the PCI-e slot: check twice any relevant measure.

Do you think this kind of montage could cause vibration issue with a 2 TB caviar green?

Personally I don't think that, but at any rate you may also use some silicone grommets (just for instance, like these ones) to decouple the disk.

Discarting the G360, what are the silent modular/semi-modular psu I could use on this config?

Among the ones quoted in this thread, the 140mm suitable units seem the CM VSM-series, the CM GM-series and the Corsair CS-M series.
Stretching to 160mm units, there's plenty of options.

Do you spot something that worth to buy in the 140-150 mm range?

Talking about modular/semi-modular units, none but the already quoted ones. You could also look at the Fractal Design Integra M-series, but it's probably a bit louder than the other options.
You might compares their fan profiles here, at the Lautstärke section, clicking on the PSU names (please take note that those data are to be referred to low ambient temps, and I don't think a loaded ISK-600 will be a cool ambient: so, with reference to those data, definitely your mileage may vary, IMHO).

[morganITA]

At 140mm, the Silverstone Strider Plus Gold ST55F-G could work.

I'd avoid that unit, it has a minimum fan speed of about 1000rpm.

And I think 1000rpm could increase very easily in such a small case, due to poor ventilation to the psu. Honestly this one was already at bottom of my shopping list, due his high price.

I wouldn't be so sure, it's a bit too near the PCI-e slot: check twice any relevant measure.

You're right. I was searching more info about this mb and comes up some people had space problems because of cpu cooler size.
By the way, I read on another thread you used the Scythe Kotetsu but without satisfaction. Could you please explain me better the reasons why?

Personally I don't think that, but at any rate you may also use some silicone grommets (just for instance, like these ones) to decouple the disk.

Good tip, should check if they don't add too much thickness, space in that corner seems to be really small.

Among the ones quoted in this thread, the 140mm suitable units seem the CM VSM-series, the CM GM-series and the Corsair CS-M series.
Stretching to 160mm units, there's plenty of options.

Will take a look better at those ones, never heard any of them, thx.

So, a little recap: the only clear points I have until now are the case, the cpu and the vga (I already have both). Everything else is still blurry. Choosing mb+cooler+psu it's becoming an endless problem: if pop out a good and cheap mb there are problems with cpu cooler and viceversa. And I still haven't started to dig deeper about RAM modules! I'm almost a total newbie builder but create a sff system it's even harder than I was expecting, really a lot of things to care about...Please guys, don't forsake me! Spit out all your ideas!

[quest_for_silence]

By the way, I read on another thread you used the Scythe Kotetsu but without satisfaction. Could you please explain me better the reasons why?

I'm not sure what you are talking about, however as far as I recall I didn't have any serious issue with the Kotetsu.
If I correctly understood what you mean, my main concern with the Kotetsu is that I don't agree with Lawrence Lee (the SPCR main reviewer) about it's actually the best air cooler at low airflows (in my experience it's "just" very competitive, but nowhere clearly the better one). Said that, for the price, you can't find anything really better here in Italy (I mean, at low airflow).

Choosing mb+cooler+psu it's becoming an endless problem: if pop out a good and cheap mb there are problems with cpu cooler and viceversa.

The less problematic mobos are the ASUS and then the ASRock, for SPCR-like job.

And I still haven't started to dig deeper about RAM modules!

Personally I see no serious issue there: whether you need a low profile RAM, the Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP is the one to buy, whether you need a regular height something like the G.Skill Ares is good and available at many speeds up to 2400MHz at reasonable pricing. Although it's expensive, a 2x8Gb kit (16Gb) should be preferred on a mITX rig, since it's not upgradeable, but that's not mandatory.

Spit out all your ideas!

Pick an ASUS board, the Kotetsu, either 8Gb or 16Gb of Crucial or G.Skill ram, the Corsair CS-450 (or the CS-550), put all inside the case: I think it should work (where quietness is paramount). You may need some case fans, but I didn't checked the ones your Antec sports.
Then you have just to correctly set the fan management (UEFI Hw Monitor, or ASUS FanXpert/the equivalent ASRock utility, or SpeedFan, under Windows) and fire up your favourite game.

[morganITA]

I'm not sure what you are talking about, however as far as I recall I didn't have any serious issue with the Kotetsu.
If I correctly understood what you mean, my main concern with the Kotetsu is that I don't agree with Lawrence Lee (the SPCR main reviewer) about it's actually the best air cooler at low airflows (in my experience it's "just" very competitive, but nowhere clearly the better one). Said that, for the price, you can't find anything really better here in Italy (I mean, at low airflow).

Of course, I was just pointing out how demanding are your quiet standards and trying to catch some advice from your considerations about it. I'm pretty sure I found the right cooler for me.

The less problematic mobos are the ASUS and then the ASRock, for SPCR-like job.

So glad to hear that. Just found a perfect mb candidate, ASRock H97M-ITX/ac. There's everything I need: WiFi ac, BT, 1 fan header (+ the cpu's one) and it's not z series, which I don't need for overclocking features.
I was scared at first seeing how and where WiFi module is located (that tall slim plate just upon sata connectors) but then I saw a small review where they use a Noctua NH-D14. Actually in this photo the module isn't mounted yet but you can see how much space still left. Double checked on Noctua compatibility mb page and it fits. Even if I haven't found a specific compatibility mb chart on scythe website, Kotetsu+ASRock+i5 4460+GTX 670 seems to work.

Personally I see no serious issue there: whether you need a low profile RAM, the Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP is the one to buy, whether you need a regular height something like the G.Skill Ares is good and available at many speeds up to 2400MHz at reasonable pricing. Although it's expensive, a 2x8Gb kit (16Gb) should be preferred on a mITX rig, since it's not upgradeable, but that's not mandatory.

Honestly, RAM it's the only thing I would like to save as much money as I can. As stated before, top gaming isn't my main purpose, 2x4 GB is what I was really aiming. Had already on my shop list this kit. Considering motherboard supports up to 1600 Mhz, do you think is a wise choice?

Pick an ASUS board, the Kotetsu, either 8Gb or 16Gb of Crucial or G.Skill ram, the Corsair CS-450 (or the CS-550), put all inside the case: I think it should work (where quietness is paramount).

Corsair CS450M could really be the one I was looking for: 140mm, semi modular, apparently virtually silent at low/mid load, very cheap BUT it has only one PCIe connector (where my vga need two 6-pin PCIe) and I can't understand if there's a compatibility issue too with CPU power connector on ASRock mb, which uses four pin instead of eight. Are there any workarounds for such situations? Maybe some kind of adapters I'm not aware.

You may need some case fans, but I didn't checked the ones your Antec sports.

ISK 600 mounts only this 120 rear fan. I can't find the exact model but it has a manual switcher for speed regulation. I can't recover which are the 2 speeds but they should be 600/1200 rpm. Probably I could switch to another 120 fan which is more quiet and efficient at low rotation, like the famous Noiseblocker M12-S1. If there are other similar quality fans it would be nice to know.

A lot of progress today, I think I'm half way for the perfect result with your help!

[quest_for_silence]

Considering motherboard supports up to 1600 Mhz, do you think is a wise choice?

Yes, the standard height Ballistix Sport DIMMs are usually a solid choice.

BUT it has only one PCIe connector (where my vga need two 6-pin PCIe) and I can't understand if there's a compatibility issue too with CPU power connector on ASRock mb, which uses four pin instead of eight. Are there any workarounds for such situations? Maybe some kind of adapters I'm not aware.

About the CPU connector, as far as I know the 8 pin EPS12V connector can be pulled apart for four pin ATX12V connectivity, so it should be perfectly fine. About the PEG connectors, probably no 400-450W PSU has two (the Seasonic 460 should be the lowest wattage unit with two PEG connectors), but you can use adapters like this one (look around for the option which may better fit your need, there are with either 1 connector or 2 connectors, either with Molex LP4 or with SATA 15 pin, and so on).

If there are other similar quality fans it would be nice to know.

The Noise Blocker S2 is a much more flexible fan than the S1, so I'd prefer it. Just check the case fan header minimum fan speed, as you might want to opt for a PWM fan connected with a PWM splitter to the CPU fan header.

[morganITA]

About the CPU connector, as far as I know the 8 pin EPS12V connector can be pulled apart for four pin ATX12V connectivity, so it should be perfectly fine. About the PEG connectors, probably no 400-450W PSU has two (the Seasonic 460 should be the lowest wattage unit with two PEG connectors), but you can use adapters like this one (look around for the option which may better fit your need, there are with either 1 connector or 2 connectors, either with Molex LP4 or with SATA 15 pin, and so on).

I was sure there was a simple solution.
BTW, my s12II-430 got 2 PEG connector, even if it's a much older PSU.

The Noise Blocker S2 is a much more flexible fan than the S1, so I'd prefer it.

Note taken but wouldn't be better a PWM fan?

Just check the case fan header minimum fan speed, as you might want to opt for a PWM fan connected with a PWM splitter to the CPU fan header.

I found the perfect photo of the case rear fan (here the complete video). Quite sure but it shouldn't be a PWM, isn't it?

Searching deeper through the web, I also discovered another great mb solution, probably better than the ASRock, the Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI. Got flat layout, better WiFi and LAN module, almost same price.
On its datasheet you can read 1 x CPU fan header and 1 x system fan headers (should be these two 4-pin if I'm not wrong). So my (dumb) question is: isn't better to use 2 PWM fans since both cpu_ and sys_ connectors seems to be PWM? One for the kotetsu cooler and the other one for the case. Would be nice connect them on the mb without any splitter, adaptor etc... and fine tuning through above mentioned softwares. Or maybe I'm just missing some basic knowledges but better safe than sorry.

I also definitely understood that all my fear about internal space are pointless, since I found this italian review where they fill in 160 x 150 x 86mm Antec PSU, 267mm long vga and 117mm X 130mm X 131mm cpu cooler. Sure, they lament a little high vga temp but in my case situation should be (I hope) better.

[quest_for_silence]

Note taken but wouldn't be better a PWM fan?

It depends, there's no simple answer: broadly speaking a PWM fan can have a more granular control, often it can be even voltage controlled, but at the same time it can also have a rather high minimum speed built-in (you can't go below a certain duty cycle, and fan doesn't stop), and more than once PWM fans turned out more prone to have some odd noise at the lowest speeds.
On their own, some voltage-controlled fans may have a too high starting voltage, and they are not immune by clicking at low pace.
Besides, as a matter of fact usually mobo's PWM headers offer lower speed settings, but that's not granted for case fans, while usually UEFI controls for voltage controlled case fans headers cannot be dialed down under a certain percentage (50%, sometimes 60%), which may require either an additional software control (like FanXpert or SpeedFan), or using low speed (less flexible) fans.

it shouldn't be a PWM, isn't it?

No, it isn't PWM (it looks like sort of a TwoCool 120 fan).

So my (dumb) question is: isn't better to use 2 PWM fans since both cpu_ and sys_ connectors seems to be PWM?

I can't help, as they might not be both PWM.
Despite they are both 4 pin their pinout is different, while PWM fans have all the same pinout.
On the other hand, in another manual page they seemed to state they're both PWM, given that their settings look like the same.
How that can be, given the different header pinout, I don't know (a typo?): definitely your mileage may vary, you'd better to look for information from that mobo owners on forums (like SPCR, OCN, and so on) before assuming anything for granted.
Broadly speaking I don't like to buy Gigabyte mobos, given the usually inferior UEFI controls and lack of SpeedFan compatibility, but I have no direct hand experience with their Haswell-series, so even on that I can't offer any educated advice.

I also definitely understood that all my fear about internal space are pointless

If you want to pick a longer PSU, a BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 would be probably more quiet than the Corsair (and with better capacitors: though the modular version should be more expensive).

they lament a little high vga temp but in my case situation should be (I hope) better.

I didn't deepen that matter, but at first glance I don't see any really radical difference (there isn't a suitable side inlet), so I guess you're going to experience similar issues with the GPU temp (and so likely some unwanted noise from your GTX): but if you buy the case on Amazon, you may send back the ISK 600 whether it turns out not suitable to your needs (the same it goes if you will opt for the Gigabyte board) for a modest money penalty.

[morganITA]

I can't help, as they might not be both PWM.
Despite they are both 4 pin their pinout is different, while PWM fans have all the same pinout.
On the other hand, in another manual page they seemed to state they're both PWM, given that their settings look like the same.
How that can be, given the different header pinout, I don't know (a typo?): definitely your mileage may vary, you'd better to look for information from that mobo owners on forums (like SPCR, OCN, and so on) before assuming anything for granted.

So, if I well understand, a 4-pin connector isn't guaranty of PWM regulation and an important part is played by mb fan controller and his software implementation. I'm waiting some feedback from another SPCR user who got this gigabyte mb (here his thread) but I'm realizing that save money on the mb and aim to a quiet setup are things who don't fit perfectly together...
I'll probably go with a Asus Z97I-PLUS, so I'll be sure to have everything (and more than) I'm searching, without any sort of issues. Gathering some infos and FanXpert seems to be amazing. Speaking of which, is this software, combined with this motherboard, able to tweaks a Noiseblocker M12-S2, even if it's a 3-pin fan? According to SPCR Fan Roundup #6 screenshots yes but I would like to know how it's possible.

If you want to pick a longer PSU, a BeQuiet! Straight Power E10 would be probably more quiet than the Corsair (and with better capacitors: though the modular version should be more expensive).

Finding some really good opinions about the E10 but I would try anyway to save as much space as I can. As found on a german review, there's a mean gap of 0.6 db between this and CS450M, pretty much imperceptible IMHO. Anyway, they refer to 500W version so don't know if it's applicable to the 400W I'll take.

I didn't deepen that matter, but at first glance I don't see any really radical difference (there isn't a suitable side inlet), so I guess you're going to experience similar issues with the GPU temp (and so likely some unwanted noise from your GTX): but if you buy the case on Amazon, you may send back the ISK 600 whether it turns out not suitable to your needs (the same it goes if you will opt for the Gigabyte board) for a modest money penalty.

In this and this videos it's shown the case with my same GTX 670 model. While the first one doesn't seems to have any particular advice about temp, in the second one I can understand at least that thermal rising during benchmark is quite high but not sure about user's overall conclusion since I don't speak russian.
I'll probably buy from amazon the parts that could benefit of their send back policy but for the rest, I'd rather prefer to save some money buying from other cheaper shops (well, not always cheaper than amazon).

So, at today, my setup is:
- Case: Antec ISK 600
- CPU: Intel i5 4460
- Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu
- RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 2x4 GB/Other
- VGA: MSI GTX 670 2 GB
- HD: WD Caviar Green 2TB
- SSD: Crucial MX100 512 GB
- MB: Asus Z97I-PLUS/Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI/Other
- PSU: Corsair CS450M/BeQuiet! Straight Power E10/Other

Only few doubts lasts (the Other ones)but I feel close to goal!

[quest_for_silence]

So, if I well understand, a 4-pin connector isn't guaranty of PWM regulation

No, there are lots of fake PWM headers (even on ASUS boards, take note).

I'm waiting some feedback from another SPCR user who got this gigabyte mb (here his thread)

Drop him a PM, it isn't granted he currently subscribes that old thread.
Meanwhile give a look to other, larger communities, like the one on overclock.net, looking for relevant info.

so I'll be sure to have everything (and more than) I'm searching, without any sort of issues.

I'm sorry, but you can't skip to read manuals, reviews and forums on ANY piece of hardware, if you want to make an informed, conscious choice.

Gathering some infos and FanXpert seems to be amazing. Speaking of which, is this software, combined with this motherboard, able to tweaks a Noiseblocker M12-S2, even if it's a 3-pin fan?

The FanXpert can control both PWM and voltage-controlled headers (either 3 pin or fake 4 pin variant): whether the Z97-I had to have a 3pin/fake PWM header, it should work with the 3 pin M12 variants (take not that the Black Silent Pro fans work as well as the Multiframe ones, whether they are significantly cheaper). Otherwise, a M12 PS has to be preferred.
Take also note that on their first-gen Haswell mobo ASUS implemented also an "Advance" mode in their UEFI in order to use indifferently 4 pin PWM fans, or 3 pin voltage controlled ones, so check (on the manual or elsewhere) whether that feature still belong to the current generation, or not.

Finding some really good opinions about the E10 but I would try anyway to save as much space as I can. As found on a german review, there's a mean gap of 0.6 db between this and CS450M, pretty much imperceptible IMHO. Anyway, they refer to 500W version so don't know if it's applicable to the 400W I'll take.

The E10 is an overall better (and quieter) PSU, period. Said that, set aside build-quality (the actual Achilles' heel of the CS-series), they are roughly comparable. So, whether you praise that shy casing above other aspects, there's no problem, I think you'll be still satisfied, as that Corsair is an actually enough quiet PSU.

While the first one doesn't seems to have any particular advice about temp, in the second one I can understand at least that thermal rising during benchmark is quite high but not sure about user's overall conclusion since I don't speak russian.

The first one shows nothing meaningful but the boy's kitchen: I didn't watch the second.
Said that, the lack of a proper inlet is a serious problem: personally I'd bet you will be disappointed by the final outcome, physics law can't be overcome. In case (pun not intended), if you really love that Antec, I guess you might still mod the side panel (with a Dremel, lots of care/patience and some workmanship), and then buy a custom DEMCiflex filter to cover the freshly made DIY inlet (nothing undoable, but a noticeable amount of more money, I know: that's why I talk about love).

Or you can use a different case, like the Bitfenix Prodigy M, the Fractal Design Node 304 or Node 804, or eventually the Cooltek W1, which are - most of them, at least - way bigger, though (and probably more expensive).

[morganITA]

I'm sorry, but you can't skip to read manuals, reviews and forums on ANY piece of hardware, if you want to make an informed, conscious choice.

Believe me or not, this is to me one of the funniest part of the whole story. My nightmares are about the actual building process! Only shame it's my lack of time to deepen all that matters.

The FanXpert can control both PWM and voltage-controlled headers (either 3 pin or fake 4 pin variant): whether the Z97-I had to have a 3pin/fake PWM header, it should work with the 3 pin M12 variants (take not that the Black Silent Pro fans work as well as the Multiframe ones, whether they are significantly cheaper). Otherwise, a M12 PS has to be preferred.

Got it, just found a review about M12-PS, seems to be interesting.

Take also note that on their first-gen Haswell mobo ASUS implemented also an "Advance" mode in their UEFI in order to use indifferently 4 pin PWM fans, or 3 pin voltage controlled ones, so check (on the manual or elsewhere) whether that feature still belong to the current generation, or not.

From Asus Z97I-PLUS mb manual, about the 2 cha_ fan:

Chassis Fan 1/2 Min. Duty Cycle(%) [60]
Use the <+> or <-> keys to adjust the minimum chassis fan duty cycle. The
values range from 60% to 100%. When the chassis temperature is under
40°C, the chassis fan operates at the minimum duty cycle.

Allow Fan Stop [Disabled]
This item allows your fans to run at 0% duty cycle when the temperature of the source drops
below the lower temperature. Configuration options: [Disabled][Enabled]

Also found on this forum other users with same concerns -and many other cues- but, at the end of the day, it's a problem only if you have fans with high noisy RPM @ 60% of their power. So, regardless if they're PWM or DC, some tuning it's still possible from UEFI, even without using FanXpert or SpeedFan (It would be nice to hear a comment about the first one from Abula, I think to understand he's a great fan -pun intended!- of Asus sw). No problems reported for CPU_FAN, can works in 20-100 % range.
Forgot to mention that I'm actually using SpeedFan with my Arctic Freezer 13 on E8400 but only for his basic speed regulation. Please don't laugh at me! My actual rig is the reason why I really need an upgrade!

The E10 is an overall better (and quieter) PSU, period. Said that, set aside build-quality (the actual Achilles' heel of the CS-series), they are roughly comparable. So, whether you praise that shy casing above other aspects, there's no problem, I think you'll be still satisfied, as that Corsair is an actually enough quiet PSU.

I'll take some time to take a complete comparison list with both, plus some others PSU I eventually find.

The first one shows nothing meaningful but the boy's kitchen

Ahahahah, I think it's nice too!

Said that, the lack of a proper inlet is a serious problem: personally I'd bet you will be disappointed by the final outcome, physics law can't be overcome.

Starting to understand that air flow is really fundamental in itx buildings. Antec case got a small drive bay on the top frontal side where to put a slim optical reader. If empty, do you think it could be enough to improve the flux?
BTW, isn't this one (manually copy/past the link, I don't know why it isn't working properly) a red pen building mistake? I mean, what's the sense of having a cpu fan (who can't take fresh air too because of the hdd on its back) fronting vga backplate?! No positive-negative pressure in this way (Ehehe, I'm trying to look smart!).

In case (pun not intended), if you really love that Antec, I guess you might still mod the side panel (with a Dremel, lots of care/patience and some workmanship), and then buy a custom DEMCiflex filter to cover the freshly made DIY inlet (nothing undoable, but a noticeable amount of more money, I know: that's why I talk about love). Or you can use a different case, like the Bitfenix Prodigy M, the Fractal Design Node 304 or Node 804, or eventually the Cooltek W1, which are - most of them, at least - way bigger, though (and probably more expensive).

Mmhh, I'm not really a dremel guy....
When I first stared thinking of this build I made an exhausting research about the case (I know superficially all of them) and the Antec ISK 600 was the closest to my very first choice, the Design Node 304 of course, because of the price. The Fractal is really astonishing, but there are some particulars that make me like better the antec. For example it lacks use of internal dvd, 2x92mm front fans which seems to be not exactly quiet (=more € to substitute them), same PSU 140mm max size limitation and I don't like its vertical HDD mounting solution. Following your advices around the forum I found plenty of this case owner's club that maybe could make me change my mind but I'm honestly feeling somewhat stupid spending all this money for a case which could be too much for me...

[quest_for_silence]

My nightmares are about the actual building process!

Unfortunately building into cramped spaces is a royal pain: it should take several hours to work out a decent outcome with your parts.

It would be nice to hear a comment about the first one from Abula, I think to understand he's a great fan -pun intended!- of Asus sw

No, Abula is a great supporter of pure BIOS control, because it's OS-independent. In case, drop him a PM, whether he'd have some spare time, I think he could be very helpful.

Forgot to mention that I'm actually using SpeedFan with my Arctic Freezer 13 on E8400 but only for his basic speed regulation. Please don't laugh at me! My actual rig is the reason why I really need an upgrade!

If you have enough DDR2 Ram (8Gb) and a proper motherboard, you can buy some quad core Xeon 771 off eBay for 40-50 bucks (X5460, E5450), mod the board and get a nice performance upgrade (that's what I did for a couple of PC).

If empty, do you think it could be enough to improve the flux?

I think no: the right scheme is the Prodigy M's one, dealing with relatively hot hardware.

BTW, isn't this one (manually copy/past the link, I don't know why it isn't working properly) a red pen building mistake?

Well, not exactly, mainly it's what happen when you pick the wrong board layout:



I guess the CPU cooler didn't fit otherwise.

Mmhh, I'm not really a dremel guy....

Then be prepared to pick another case, or accepting some noise and temp penalties, that may happen.

I'm honestly feeling somewhat stupid spending all this money for a case which could be too much for me...

With a hot GPU, the Antec ISK 600 doesn't seem the best bet (where quietness is paramount), that's my honest opinion.
Pick the Prodigy M then, it's cooler than the ISK 600, not that much more expensive, but way bigger.
About swapping the case fans, unfortunately it's a common practice for SPCR-like builds, even dealing with noise-conscious enclosures, like the Define R4 or the Node 304.

[morganITA]

If you have enough DDR2 Ram (8Gb) and a proper motherboard, you can buy some quad core Xeon 771 off eBay for 40-50 bucks (X5460, E5450), mod the board and get a nice performance upgrade (that's what I did for a pair of PC).

Never considered this kind of option, mostly because I am looking forward to a future where a skylake low tdp cpu will be enough for my needs.

With a hot GPU, the Antec ISK 600 doesn't seem the best bet (where quietness is paramount), that's my honest opinion.
Pick the Prodigy M then, it's cooler than the ISK 600, not that much more expensive, but way bigger.
About swapping the case fans, unfortunately it's a common practice for SPCR-like builds, even dealing with noise-conscious enclosures, like the Define R4 or the Node 304.

As maybe stated before, I'm definitely dropping ATX for ITX: I'm tired to have a tall dinosaur at side of my desk. Also, the case choice is guided by a future intent to move it in the living room next to the TV, so the Prodigy M is totally off. Otherwise, If I'd choose a "tower" itx case, probably I'll go with Ncase M1, the SPCR itx favourite (even if its price seems crazy to me!)
I can't really think it's still impossible nowadays combine silence & medium performance on a low height ITX build (for a reasonable budget). For example, take a look at this or this Node 304 builds, both with i5 and MSI GTX vga (not my exact model but same cooling system). Can you approximately judge them quiet enough thanks to noctua fans and with a proper air flow?

All my project started when my gf took an i5 macbook pro retina 13". I tried it for some times and the only thing I can think is: how is possible that such little and compressed piece of s**t it's impossible to be perceived on or off, even after a full day of soft/medium load?! I mean, I never heard the fan of that scrap, and I know it has one. So, I never thought it could be such hard obtain same results in a way larger enclosure, even if a little more powerful because of the vga.
As many other users here stated it's really easy become poor during a SPCR worthy build! I feel like bipolar people: from the high of being close to the goal to the desire to drop and let everything go...
But it isn't still time to quit for me!

[quest_for_silence]

Never considered this kind of option, mostly because I am looking forward to a future where a skylake low tdp cpu will be enough for my needs.

If I can take the liberty, given that, as you know, Skylake will use a different socket and DDR4 when released on next 15 August 2015, whether meant as a transitional solution an Haswell rig looks like a tad little rational.

As maybe stated before, I'm definitely dropping ATX for ITX

As a matter of fact, I didn't adviced for an ATX-sized solution: the Prodigy is a mITX case, the Prodigy M is just a redesigned, better engineered case in the same overall volume.

Although it is bigger, it's more versed into running an hot GPU quietly than the proposed ISK-600 because, first of all, broadly speaking the larger mITX enclosures run cooler and quieter (as you can check on several SPCR articles: Prodigy @ 19dB, vs NCase M1 @ 21dB, vs Rosewill W1 @ 18dB modding the dust filter), and then because definitely what you need is unrestricted inlet and exhaust on front, side and top panels (all things the ISK-600 just don't have).

Said that, the main reason behind suggesting it is it's considerably less expensive than good but smaller options (like the Ncase M1 or the Fractal Node 304).

If you wanna go smaller than the Prodigy, there's a price premium to pay (or you have to mod the ISK-600 side panel, but the new dust filter may cost you, all in all, about 30-40 euros, for a total amount greater than the Fractal Design Node 304 price).

The Silverstone ML-08 might be an interesting bet, loaded with the proper hardware (like the Corsair CS and not a SFX PSU).

probably I'll go with Ncase M1, the SPCR itx favourite (even if its price seems crazy to me!

First of all, the M1 isn't a "tower", not even by mistake, check the artist renditions they used for comparison purposes.

Said that, its price is that high because it's a custom product, shipped worldwide directly from Asia to anyone wanted it: do you think that an handmade suit, or an handmade bicycle, or an handmade furniture may cost less than a mass production one? They wanted what didn't exist, and they got it, but for a price.

Can you approximately judge them quiet enough thanks to noctua fans and with a proper air flow?

Noctua fans don't matter in that case, the way cheaper Arctic Cooling F-series ones will work as well: what really matter are the way less restrictive inlets the Node has, with reference to the ISK-600.
As americans are used to say, nothing beats cubic inches: you need wide open square inches to lower temps and noise.

But it isn't still time to quit for me!

No surrender

[morganITA]

If I can take the liberty, given that, as you know, Skylake will use a different socket and DDR4 when released on next 15 August 2015, whether meant as a transitional solution an Haswell rig looks like a tad little rational.

I used to think that will be backward compatibility but now, reading better, it's only about ddr4 memory, not the socket. Sorry, my shallow. So I will be locked to Haswell for my future upgrade (unless of a mb change too) but, after all, it's not such a big deal.

As a matter of fact, I didn't adviced for an ATX-sized solution: the Prodigy is a mITX case, the Prodigy M is just a redesigned, better engineered case in the same overall volume.

I made confusion, meant the Prodigy period. But it doesn't change too much to me: it's 330mm tall vs 210mm of Node 304 and antec 195mm. Measured its probably future place in living room furniture and 260mm is the max I can choose. Without those top and bottom handles it could have been THE one. Of course, they are useful in many ways but really too much ugly IMHO. And apparently there's no easy and good looking mod to take them off. Also checked Bitfenix Phenom which looks similar, but same height issue (330mm) and not a great opinion from SPCR.

what you need is unrestricted inlet and exhaust on front, side and top panels (all things the ISK-600 just don't have)

Isn't this something that I could achieve easily just making holes on ISK 600 thin aluminium cover case? Something like those (same link issue than before) at the right front end but manually extended along all vga length facing panel, on the opposite side and even on the top? Then covering with a filter like the one you linked some post ago. While seems there's no easy mod for intake coming from front panel. But if you say that it could cost so much, I think it's better return back to Node 304 too.

The Silverstone ML-08 might be an interesting bet, loaded with the proper hardware (like the Corsair CS and not a SFX PSU).

Just checked but it seems even more uncomfortable than all the others. And impossible to buy at human price in our beloved country.

its price is that high because it's a custom product, shipped worldwide directly from Asia to anyone wanted it: do you think that an handmade suit, or an handmade bicycle, or an handmade furniture may cost less than a mass production one?

Of course, I read the story of Ncase and appreciate them a lot. I was just talking by hyperbole, to state I surely won't spend such amount of money for a case.

Noctua fans don't matter in that case, the way cheaper Arctic Cooling F-series ones will work as well: what really matter are the way less restrictive inlets the Node has, with reference to the ISK-600.
As americans are used to say, nothing beats cubic inches: you need wide open square inches to lower temps and noise.

But I need to change all of them 3 (2x92mm front and 1x140mm back) anyway if I want to reach an acceptable level of noise+temp, correct? If yes, which ones could be the better cost/performance substitutes?
Despite everything (see: the price), seems I'm coming back to my first love....

No surrender

Always hail to the Boss!

[quest_for_silence]

Measured its probably future place in living room furniture and 260mm is the max I can choose.

IMVHO you should go for your first choice, the Node 304: sure, it costs 50 euros more but it delivers more without so many hassles.

Isn't this something that I could achieve easily just making holes on ISK 600 thin aluminium cover case?

Set aside it's much more difficult punching lots of holes there than opening a window on the side panel, but does it worth, according to you? Do you have the suitable tools or do you have to buy them? Are you able to make a clean work? May you make any educated guess about the final thermal outcome? Do all these questions worth those 50 euros more? Please take note, mines are just guesses, but not clearly groundless.

Whether you're not sure and you wanted to have a B strategy, pick the Antec on Amazon, and if it didn't deliver satisfactorily (as it will likely be), then return it for a Node 304 (still from Amazon, you will loose the return shipping but that's just about 6 euros).

Just checked but it seems even more uncomfortable than all the others. And impossible to buy at human price in our beloved country.

Yes, you're right: Silverstone announced a bunch of similar cases but just some of them are actually available (at a different prices). The one you may look at, here in Italy, it's the about 70 euros ML-07 (it's the same enclosure of the RVZ-01, FTZ-01, ML-08 but with a different fascia and no stock fans).

But I need to change all of them 3 (2x92mm front and 1x140mm back) anyway if I want to reach an acceptable level of noise+temp, correct? If yes, which ones could be the better cost/performance substitutes?

Usually fans swap should be done JUST after actually testing the stock ones.
So at first I'd try those stock ones: the FDs may be not the best, but at the same time they're far from the worst ones, I think you could be even satisfied by them.

[morganITA]

Set aside it's much more difficult punching lots of holes there than opening a window on the side panel, but does it worth, according to you? Do you have the suitable tools or do you have to buy them? Are you able to make a clean work? May you make any educated guess about the final thermal outcome? Do all these questions worth those 50 euros more? Please take note, mines are just guesses, but not clearly groundless.

All good points, I'm not too fond for DIY so Node 304 higher price can actually cover all the others I'll face if I should take ISK 600.

Yes, you're right: Silverstone announced a bunch of similar cases but just some of them are actually available (at a different prices). The one you may look at, here in Italy, it's the about 70 euros ML-07 (it's the same enclosure of the RVZ-01, FTZ-01, ML-08 but with a different fascia and no stock fans).

Almost the same story for the SUGO-08 (one of my favourite). But it looks stricter htpc-oriented than Fractal or Antec, which is something different from my target.

Usually fans swap should be done JUST after actually testing the stock ones.
So at first I'd try those stock ones: the FDs may be not the best, but at the same time they're far from the worst ones, I think you could be even satisfied by them.

Sounds pretty straight. I always thought smaller fans=>high rpm=>high db but I also found many others who agree with you, since is possible to switch through a manual lever on the back of the case, between 3 fan profiles. Only (silly) issue I think I read it's about the impossibility to start the system with 92mm fans setted on the lowest but I don't really care.

PSU compatibility: CS450M should fits perfectly at first sight thanks to outputs located at the furthest quarter, so vga length shouldn't interfere with attached modular cables.
Storage: Node 304 solution don't impress me much (sorry, always had a crush for her, not musically of course!). It looks like is stealing some useful space to air flow (I'm starting to be a little obsessed by this question), especially to a user like me who don't need 6 sata drives. Luckily, I found this is a real minor issue: online there are the most disparate alternatives, I even saw an amazing one with suspended hdd. I absolutely will try too.
CPU Cooler: at glance, no issue since Kotetsu fits in 15mm shorter ISK 600. Just to be double sure, is it the best noise/performance/dimensions/cost cooler out there?
MB: plenty of users using the Z97I-Plus
So, at the end, Fractal Node 304 wins.

I haven't yet recalculated the total costs but I'm sure I'll not be happy, will procrastinate some other days. And maybe think how and where to cut some expenditures.

[quest_for_silence]

But it looks stricter htpc-oriented than Fractal or Antec

Well, no, it's perfectly suitable for a steam box, as you can see on overclock.net.

I always thought smaller fans=>high rpm=>high db but I also found many others who agree with you, since is possible to switch through a manual lever on the back of the case, between 3 fan profiles. Only (silly) issue I think I read it's about the impossibility to start the system with 92mm fans setted on the lowest but I don't really care.

If you're going to use a software control like FanXpert or SpeedFan, silence-wise it's probably better to hook them up to a mobo's header (through a splitter).

Just to be double sure, is it the best noise/performance/dimensions/cost cooler out there?

Frankly, IMO it doesn't really matter: if it isn't the best, it's surely among the very best ones.

[morganITA]

Well, no, it's perfectly suitable for a steam box, as you can see on overclock.net

I can't explain exactly why but I still don't completely trust console-style stuff, inspiring fragility for some work far from a tv. But maybe it's just my inexperience.

If you're going to use a software control like FanXpert or SpeedFan, silence-wise it's probably better to hook them up to a mobo's header (through a splitter).

I am already thinking how to get the best crossing. Since the Asus mb got 2xCHA_ and 1xCPU_FAN and I have to connect a total of 4 fans (2x92mm+1x120mm cooler+140mm back), what will be the most logical pairing? I guess the 2x92 joined in a splitter and then to mb, while the remaining each ones on the proper header. Is something like this what are we talking about? Feeling dumb but I don't know which italian key words use to perform the same search, help!
Anyway, I'm already reading some Abula posts about this specific mb family aboard of Node 304.

Frankly, IMO it doesn't really matter: if it isn't the best, it's surely among the very best ones.

I was just scared by some spare comments I found online but redone better my researches and all doubts about the Kotetsu are gone.

Is there any other aspect I still haven't considered since the case switch?

[quest_for_silence]

I guess the 2x92 joined in a splitter and then to mb, while the remaining each ones on the proper header.

I guess it's the only logical option with the stock fans.

Is something like this what are we talking about?

Not for the stock FD fans, which are 3 pin ones: you need something either like this one or like this other (and check the current ratings of the fans, I'd advice to not go over a 0.50-0.60A total draw).

Is there any other aspect I still haven't considered since the case switch?

Who knows?

[morganITA]

Not for the stock FD fans, which are 3 pin ones: you need something either like this one or like this other .

I found a nice one (clone of the first one you linked): 30cm long to cover all necessary distances to mb.

(and check the current ratings of the fans, I'd advice to not go over a 0.50-0.60A total draw)

Could you please explain in plain words your sentence? I really don't have a clue on what are you talking about...


Still a doubt from some post ago:

About the CPU connector, as far as I know the 8 pin EPS12V connector can be pulled apart for four pin ATX12V connectivity, so it should be perfectly fine.

Not an issue any more, since Asus mb adopts a regular 8-pin connector.

About the PEG connectors, you can use adapters like this one (look around for the option which may better fit your need, there are with either 1 connector or 2 connectors, either with Molex LP4 or with SATA 15 pin, and so on).

Given CS450M connectivity options, which type could suit me better? Maybe this one? I have to connect an SSD and a HDD too.

Is there any other aspect I still haven't considered since the case switch?

Who knows?

As noob as I am, sure I'll discover too late. But thanks to your help I'm totally trying avoiding situations!