It is currently Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:28 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:02 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11846
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
SPCR is starting a project to explore solutions for electronic whining noise from video cards, motherboards, power supplies and other computer components. We seek participation from our community. You can help by donating products exhibiting high pitched noise that bothers you. We will examine these products and try to determine the sources and reasons for the noise, then explore different ways to eliminate or reduce the noise.

Send us only products that you don't mind ever seeing again. The product could become inoperative in the course of our investigations and end up in recycling. On the other hand, if we succeed in reducing or eliminating the noise, we will let you know and give you the option of paying for the shipping to get the now-quieter unit back for you to use and enjoy.

For the sake of relevance and usefulness, please donate only products that are not older than ~2 yrs. Higher power/efficiency devices are most interesting, because in general, these are the kinds of products that seem to exhibit more electronic noise, more often; they generally tend to be newer. If you have any doubts or questions about whether the product(s) you're thinking of donating for the project are suitable, please post your queries here.

The results of this project will be published as an article, documenting our experiences, and hopefully, a how-to DIY guide on how to reduce or eliminate electronic noise in these computer components. Target completion date is 6~8 weeks, but this depends a lot on your responses. We certainly will not have enough data/experience with fewer than ~20 samples; this is my arbitrary minimum number for article/guide publication.

SPCR
361-4617 Fraser St
Vancouver, BC V5W3A6
Canada

Local contributors may drop their whining components off directly. For details, please contact me by email -- mikec at silentpcreview dot com

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Eectronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:19 pm
Posts: 75
Location: North of the 49th parallel
I have an OCZ Z series 550W power supply which whine at medium-high loads; I can loan it for these experiments, since it is in spare status. I live in New Westminster, so I can drop it off personally. As contact: use the board PM or e-mail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:06 pm
Posts: 11
I don't have any spare parts yet, but would probably donate a bit if you'd be looking into the high pitched whining noice of the Seasonic X power supplies.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:21 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 279
If you're still accepting samples I may have a Corsair Builder CX430 (v1) that has pretty bad coil whine when plugged in with the system off. As far as I know, the more recent V2 also has the same problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:43 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11846
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
This initiative has seen such a lackluster response that it has to be considered dead. No interest, no point.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:37 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4602
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Sorry - no whiny spare hardware here.

This would have been a cool project.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Gefle, Sweden
Too bad, though I think it was some 6-7 years since last I had a problem at home with a whining system component. I suspect the power lines around here are simply too good to induce the problem by putting the little extra stress on otherwise good components. I part time in a store and mostly notice that kind of noise from low budget laptops nowadays.

_________________
i5-3570K at 4 GHz Turbo, HR-02 Macho w/o fan, MSI R9 290 Gaming, Fractal Design Define R4, 2 front fans, 1 exhaust. 2 SSD's and a quiet Seagate 4TB (ST4000DM000) HDD, Seasonic P-460FL (no squealing).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:58 am
Posts: 144
Location: Poland
Damn... if only I lived closer... :( Like... on the same continent :lol:

_________________
CASE: Antec Solo; MOBO: MSI P67A-C45; CPU: i5 2500K@4.4GHz + Mugen2; RAM: 8GB DDR3 1333MHz; GPU: PowerColor 5750 1GBD5-S3DH passive; PSU: Corsair HX520; SSD: Patriot Inferno 120GB; HDD: Samsung F2 1TB HD103SI; SOUND: Asus Xonar DX; FANS: Slipstream @700RPM exhaust; 2xNexus 92mm @6V intake. DISPLAY: 26" LCD Fujitsu Siemens Amilo SL 3260W


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:55 pm
Posts: 111
Location: New Zealand
I want to say bravo to Mike for coming up with this project.

I haven't had any whistling/whining electronics in some time (touch wood), and most of that was associated with CRTs. I do remember reading some where about whining SSDs and other cases of PSU coil whine being induced by SSDs.

Needless to say, I eagerly await your results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:15 pm
Posts: 436
Location: Michigan
Are you interested at all in mouses? I ahve a couple logitech mouses that produce a high frequency whine that aggravates my tinnitus.

_________________
WIP Desktop: DFI R100 industrial PC case, DH61AG, i3-2100, 8GB DDR3, 500GB 2.5" HDD, Linux Mint 12
Laptop: HP tc4400, Core 2 Duo T7200, 3.5GB DDR2, 160GB Scorpio Blue, Ubuntu 11.04


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
This aught to be very interesting. SPCR might identify patterns of noise generation that have been and are being overlooked by manufacturers... just because they present themselves in what appears to be an erratic manner.

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:43 pm
Posts: 38
Location: Mountain View, CA, US
Three things you could investigate:

1) Any Core i7 (possibly i5) with C-state support enabled -- specifically, C-state transitioning between C3/C6.

On every Core i7 system I have (one HP laptop (not sure which rev/stepping), and one desktop (i7-2600K, rev D2 / stepping 7)), I have to turn this feature off, simply because the transition between the two CPU sleep states is audible. Yeah, even within a Fractal Design R3 case I can still hear the CPU transitioning between the two. I solve the problem on my laptop using ThrottleStop (since the HP system BIOS offers no way to disable C3/C6), and I solve the problem on my desktop using the system BIOS. Lenovo laptops (which I also use at work) have the same problem, but offer the disable feature via the BIOS.

I should note this noise isn't audible to a lot of people, but is to some others. In fact, at work (where my laptop is) most of my colleagues can't hear the noise. There's only one other than me who can hear it -- and only after I pointed it out to him and asked him to listen closely (he's also a musician, heh). Now it drives him just as crazy as it does me.

Here's a Youtube video which exhibits the problem. Just search Google for "Core i7 c3 c6 high pitch" and you'll find lots of hits.

This is a pretty well-known problem, but it's also pretty low-level. Good luck on getting this one fixed; will require getting past a lot of red tape with Intel.

2) The infamous "siren" coming from PSUs when using tools like ATITool "spinning cube".

Happens with ATI cards or nVidia cards.

Supposedly MSI was one of the companies who addressed this problem, but I own a MSI N560GTX-TI Twin Frozr II and it has this issue. PSU is a Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850. Same happened using an Antec PSU.

So it seems to me that MSI at one time cared about this problem, fixed it (yay!), but then forgot it was occurring and now we're back at square one. What's amusing is that the GTX 200 series came out in roughly 2008/2009, and it's now 2012. So in only a few years they forgot.

They aren't the only one either. Google for something like "video card frequency noise" and be amazed.

3) Logitech mice.

I have been tracking this problem with their mice since 2004, and finally in 2011 a hardware engineer (just a random guy off the Internet) contacted me and told me what the problem was, as well as the details/harmonics involving why it happens. The issue is caused by ceramic capacitors. Simply replacing them with tantalum caps solves the problem. This issue has also begun to affect certain models of Microsoft mice.

I would LOVE if you would really drill Logitech on this one, hard core. As I said, I've been trying to get it solved for EIGHT YEARS.

Finally, and I'm going to bold this, because so many people respond to posts of mine like this with "I have Product X and I don't hear what you're talking about": it all depends on the level of sensitivity of one's hearing. I happen to have extremely sensitive ears and quite a large frequency range is audible to me (a colleague of mine used a software tone generator to generate frequencies of pulse/square waves to see where my limit was -- it's something like 8-9kHz higher than the average person). So please do not state something ignorant like the above. This ignorance is exactly why these products emit noise to begin with: the person designing them and the persons QA'ing have normal or sub-par hearing.

Thanks.

_________________
Making life hard for others since 1977.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:04 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 1:39 am
Posts: 1924
Location: Finland
Shoot - I knew I should have kept my noisy components instead of getting rid of them ASAP. :roll:

I sign koitsu's statement on sensitivity, and can attest to the Logitech mouse whine problem. I've heard it too, and it's not pleasant. If I come across any samples, I'll be sure to send them SPCR's way.

_________________
Case: FD Define Mini
Parts: P8Z77-M Pro µATX, i5-3570K @stock, N650Ti-1GD5/OC, G.Skill 2x4/1600/CL9 DDR3U, Xonar DX, WD G 1 TB, m4 128 GB, RX-5300 PSU
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 + Scythe SS PWM, 2x Noctua NF-P12
Extras: Eaton UPS, Dell 24" EIPS, Ducky kb, SteelSeries m, Synology DS213j NAS
idle & load: CPU 32 °C & 44 °C @ 300/600 & 600/800 RPM, GPU 35-65 °C @ 1200-1650 RPM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:39 pm
Posts: 26
Any chance of reviving this project? I'm wondering if it would be possible to at least compile a list of configurations that whine from the forum and see what patterns emerge. I'm seeing some anecdotal reports of whining video cards or PSUs here and there on the forum, but it's scattered.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Posts: 15
Ok, I just shut off speedstep and C1 whatever in the BIOS! That fixed it! No more headache!

By the way; very sad for the "other" environment (not my ears environment that is) that power reduction produces high frequency noise!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:18 am
Posts: 490
Location: London, UK
rupy wrote:
Ok, I just shut off speedstep and C1 whatever in the BIOS! That fixed it! No more headache!

By the way; very sad for the "other" environment (not my ears environment that is) that power reduction produces high frequency noise!
It's the fact that the power consumption changes rapidly many times in a short interval, as CPUs can go to sleep and wake up very quickly. In some power supplies this leads to whines and buzzes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Posts: 15
No, it's the speedstep transform to lowvolt that causes it (when you put the CPU under load the noise dissappears and it definetly comes from the CPU or really near the CPU and not the PSU)... I'm not talking about buzzing, but high pitch/freqency sqeaking like dog whistle.

Few hear this because they have "bad" hearing and case + fan muffles it.

I run my PC with the case open and with a super silent CPU fan, also hearing is a bit too god... :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise - The Next Frontier
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:53 am
Posts: 2
From my perspective, high pitch electronic noise is the the most important issue that needs to be addressed in building a silent computing environment.

Fluid dynamic drive bearings and large, slow, quiet fans have largely eliminated the old problem areas of noise. With just a modicum of attention to detail you can build a high performing system that's quite quiet. (Even the fan noise on my Asus GTX660Ti, which doesn't get pushed very hard, is acceptably low.) Where once I lined my computer cases with special foam, now I can hardly tell the differnce when I leave the side door off the Antec P183 case that's sitting next to me.

BUT, what remains is a low level, high pitched, electronic whine that pervades my office. I don't always pay attention to it, but when I leave the room I realize how exhausting it is. It's extremely hard to localize, and seems to reflect the cumulative load of multiple monitors and other components, and their interactions THIS is the noice problem I don't know how to solve.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electronic Whining Noise Solutions Research Project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:27 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:56 am
Posts: 135
Location: NH, Netherlands
I have no experience with high-power transformers or the like producing a coil whine or something similar under high load.

So I'm not sure what I'm saying here is useful. But I have had a few power supplies / adapters that were badly built apparently and which caused the device itself (the unit itself) to produce a nasty distortion. One of these is my current monitor that I still want to either replace, or just demand a replacement, or whatever. I mean it's a long time ago since I bought it but these stores try to make you feel that you are unwelcome after they have taken your money. It's like, "sure we are customer-friendly, but we turn our backs on you with a fake smile the moment you are gone."

So I intend to cause a bit of a ruckus there :D. In a while.

Anyway, I had an adapter for a Cambridge Audio DAC that caused the DAC to produce a whine while in standby. Same for the monitor, it only does it in standby, two modes: soft standby and "press-power-button-to-soft-turn-it-off" standby. And then I have a little USB thingy for my phone that produces a really nasty whine when no phone is connected. I get nightmares from it, seriously.

And then I have a faulty tube light for my kitchen light that I need to replace and if I turn it on I start feeling real weird in the head real fast.

So that is all I can contribute.

I must say, reading back when this topic was posted, perhaps you (MikeC) has slightly too high expectations for a project like this, to want to complete it within several weeks. When I saw this topic I initially assumed or perceived or thought that it would be something more of a knowledge base kinda thing that could help development and choices in the long run and for the long run.

Regards,...

_________________
A-Open HQ45 - Tagan TG330-U01 - Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-UD2H - Athlon X2 5050e 2.6GHz - Scythe Ninja2 - Samsung Spinpoint M5 HM160HC 2.5" - Nexus Real Silent Case Fan x2 + Zalman Fanmate2 x2


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group