Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Cooling Processors quietly

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developer1
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Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:40 am

Hi everybody, how are you?

I'm willing to upgrade my CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Plus. I'm running it at the moment with a Noctua NF-F12 Pwm + the low impedance adapter

This is my main setup:
Case: Fractal Define R5 with stock fans and a Noctua NF-F14. I removed the 5 hdd cage.
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 Black Edition 940 3.0 GHz
CPU Cooler: Hyper 212 Plus + Noctua NF-F12 Pwm
Motherboard: Asus M3A78 <-- It just has a "Q-Fan smart control" feature on its Pwm_cpu fan header, which doesn't have a super quiet profile, but it does help.


When room temperature is about 26C~, CPU temp is 36C~ @860rpm idle. Up to this point, noise it's OK, it's tolerable. But after the NF-F12 hits 900rpm and upwards, it starts to make a whining noise, which I believe it's a characteristic of NF-F12 Pwm model itself.

Furthermore, when room temperature is very high: 30-36C, CPU temp is 45C~ @1085rpm~ while browsing. At this fan speed, the whining noise is just too loud and unpleasant.

These are the options I'm considerating up to now:

Scythe Ninja 4
Scythe Kotetsu
Thermalright Macho HR-02 Rev.B

What I like about both Scythe models is its excellent performance. But I'm not sure about its stock fan, since it is said that it makes tickling noises at low speeds.
I'm thinking that a possible solution for that would be replacing the Stock fan of the Kotetsu or either the Ninja 4 with my already own Noctua NF-F12 Pwm, hoping it doesn't reach 900rpm.

The other one is the Thermalright Macho HR-02 Rev.B, which seems to come with a better stock fan which doesn't have to be replaced, am I right? It looks like a very good product "out of the box". The drawback is that it seems to perform marginally worse than these Scythe coolers.

If you have any other CPU cooler suggestion, it will be appreciated too :)


And the other question I have is where I can buy one to be shipped to Spain, Madrid. I'm from Argentina so I'm not familiar with stores there.

Sorry for any writing mistake, and thank you very much in advance

quest_for_silence
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:10 am

developer1 wrote:Motherboard: Asus M3A78 <-- It just has a "Q-Fan smart control" feature on its Pwm_cpu fan header, which doesn't have a super quiet profile, but it does help.

Try Speedfan if you run Windows.

developer1 wrote:What I like about both Scythe models is its excellent performance. But I'm not sure about its stock fan, since it is said that it makes tickling noises at low speeds.
I'm thinking that a possible solution for that would be replacing the Stock fan of the Kotetsu or either the Ninja 4 with my already own Noctua NF-F12 Pwm, hoping it doesn't reach 900rpm.

Noise-wise the Glidestream is better than the F12.

developer1 wrote:And the other question I have is where I can buy one to be shipped to Spain, Madrid. I'm from Argentina so I'm not familiar with stores there.

http://www.amazon.es/dp/B00PKJ21LW/
http://www.amazon.es/dp/B00G1YXN6M/

developer1
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:01 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:Motherboard: Asus M3A78 <-- It just has a "Q-Fan smart control" feature on its Pwm_cpu fan header, which doesn't have a super quiet profile, but it does help.

Try Speedfan if you run Windows.
Hi, I have tried speedfan but I think I have no more temperature room to lower fan rpm. Q-fan smart control keeps it between 40-45C~. I do use Speedfan for checking purposes, thought.
quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:What I like about both Scythe models is its excellent performance. But I'm not sure about its stock fan, since it is said that it makes tickling noises at low speeds.
I'm thinking that a possible solution for that would be replacing the Stock fan of the Kotetsu or either the Ninja 4 with my already own Noctua NF-F12 Pwm, hoping it doesn't reach 900rpm.

Noise-wise the Glidestream is better than the F12.
I must say that at first I was happy when I read Scythe Kotetsu and Ninja 4 came with the Glidestream. But after reading this thread: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu, I wasn't that happy then.. Seems like there is manufacture variability.

Also, as it is stated on Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn: Aside from the three speed switch and slightly higher 1500 RPM top speed, the stock fan is similar to the GlideStream model that ships with the Scythe Kotetsu and Mugen 4.
The GlideStream lacks the silky smooth acoustics of its Slip Stream predecessor but it's a decent 120 mm fan. This particular sample is not as pleasing to the ear as previous, slower speed samples. It's fairly smooth but buzzy at high speeds which is typical for a sleeve bearing model. As the fan slows, it develops a moderate hum, high pitched at first, then lowering as speed decreases. At very low speeds, there is less turbulence, making an underlying clickiness more noticeable. These noises probably aren't audible when the heatsink/fan is mounted inside a case, though, so they're trivial.


So, this lend me to consider the HR-02 Rev. B.
Also, a friend of mine will get it from Spain to my country for me, so unfortunatelly I'm not going to be able to RMA the fan if it happens to be a bad sample.
quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:And the other question I have is where I can buy one to be shipped to Spain, Madrid. I'm from Argentina so I'm not familiar with stores there.

http://www.amazon.es/dp/B00PKJ21LW/
http://www.amazon.es/dp/B00G1YXN6M/
Thank you. I forgot to say that I've searched amazon.es, but I'm not sure about the price of EUR 60 for the Thermalright HR-02 Rev. B.
I googled stores in spain and I could find the Scythe Ninja 4 for EUR50~ (estimating shipping). But I couldn't find much stores and the HR-02 wasn't available on the ones I have searched.

If I buy any item at amazon.es will it be shipped to Spain without custom problems? For example, the HR-02 has the option to be shipped from a store from Germany. I don't know how this is handled in Europe.

Thanks!

quest_for_silence
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:49 pm

developer1 wrote:Hi, I have tried speedfan but I think I have no more temperature room to lower fan rpm. Q-fan smart control keeps it between 40-45C~.

I think that your temp requirements are pointlessly restrictive.

developer1 wrote:I must say that at first I was happy when I read Scythe Kotetsu and Ninja 4 came with the Glidestream. But after reading this thread: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu, I wasn't that happy then.. Seems like there is manufacture variability.

Even so the Glidestream sounds better.

developer1 wrote:Also, as it is stated on Scythe Ninja 4: A Legend Reborn: Aside from the three speed switch and slightly higher 1500 RPM top speed, the stock fan is similar to the GlideStream model that ships with the Scythe Kotetsu and Mugen 4.
The GlideStream lacks the silky smooth acoustics of its Slip Stream predecessor but it's a decent 120 mm fan. This particular sample is not as pleasing to the ear as previous, slower speed samples. It's fairly smooth but buzzy at high speeds which is typical for a sleeve bearing model. As the fan slows, it develops a moderate hum, high pitched at first, then lowering as speed decreases. At very low speeds, there is less turbulence, making an underlying clickiness more noticeable. These noises probably aren't audible when the heatsink/fan is mounted inside a case, though, so they're trivial.

As it's stated, these noises aren't audible when the heatsink/fan is mounted inside a case, so they're trivial.

developer1 wrote:If I buy any item at amazon.es will it be shipped to Spain without custom problems? For example, the HR-02 has the option to be shipped from a store from Germany. I don't know how this is handled in Europe.
Within EU there are no customs.
Last edited by quest_for_silence on Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

SebRad
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by SebRad » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:01 pm

Hi, I think you'll find you can go to at least 65°C-70°C CPU temperature before you have any instability.
Can use Prime 95 to detect errors and speedfan to restrict the fan speed and watch the temperature rise and see if any errors get detected.
[set speed to manual in advanced in speedfan and can then use the + - buttons to control the fan speed manually]
Try it and see!

Regards, Seb

developer1
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:00 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:Hi, I have tried speedfan but I think I have no more temperature room to lower fan rpm. Q-fan smart control keeps it between 40-45C~.

I think that your temp requirements are pointlessly restrictive.

Maybe I was misunderstood, but those aren't my temp requirements. Of course I agree in the practice to rise CPU temps in order to lower fan rpm - it's a no brainer.
But with this Hyper 212+, when I play a game I really can't lower the NF-F12 under 900rpm - where it starts to do this whinning noise. My room at summers is hot. So I wan't to upgrade the cpu cooler which, after adjusting fan speed, will lend to better acoustics.
quest_for_silence wrote:As it's stated, these noises aren't audible when the heatsink/fan is mounted inside a case, so they're trivial.

You cut out the word "probably" which means that isn't a statement.
Of course I don't doubt the words of the reviewer, but I also take into consideration the users I read stating they had tickling issues.
quest_for_silence wrote:Within EU there are no customs.
Great to know. Today I kept googling and found these prices at Spain retailers:

Scythe Kotetsu: EUR 39 at amazon shipping

Scythe Ninja 4: EUR 44 + about 4 shipping

Thermalright HR02 Macho Rev. B: EUR 59 at amazon


I keep trying to decide which to get. I like Kotetsu's compact size and excellent price/performance ratio. The Ninja 4 performs better but I'm not sure if its performance/acoustics improvement justify the money and size increment. But well, despite I don't do overclocking, the Ninja 4 is tentative since the only thing I spend money on my PC is to lower its noise.

And since I couldn't find another shop selling the Thermalright HR02 Macho Rev. B, the €59 price at amazon leads it somewhat out of the choice..
SebRad wrote:Hi, I think you'll find you can go to at least 65°C-70°C CPU temperature before you have any instability.
Can use Prime 95 to detect errors and speedfan to restrict the fan speed and watch the temperature rise and see if any errors get detected.
[set speed to manual in advanced in speedfan and can then use the + - buttons to control the fan speed manually]
Try it and see!

Regards, Seb
Thanks. I've lowered its speed manually to @600rpm at it's sitting at 46C~ while browsing (forecast says it's 24C today, thought). Now, cpu fan noise is somewhat paired with case fans.
Later I'll do test Prime 95, just for curiosity.
Last edited by developer1 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:29 am, edited 21 times in total.

xan_user
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by xan_user » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:05 pm

get the Kotetsu, spend the saved 12 on beer.

developer1
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:00 pm

xan_user wrote:get the Kotetsu, spend the saved 12 on beer.
Yes, that's what I'm leaning towards to.


After having read both Scythe reviews I still can't realise if there will be any acoustic differences between these coolers for a non-overclocker.
What I have on my mind is this: I'm Okay with a 2 celsius degrees difference between two coolers at the same noise point, if the CPU handles that temp rise without a problem.
But since I've never tweaked a setup like many of you did, I can't realise if the Ninja 4 would do better than the Kotetsu to reach my purposes.
Last edited by developer1 on Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:03 am

developer1 wrote:Maybe I was misunderstood, but those aren't my temp requirements.

I think you're giving somehow incoherent figures, maybe that's due to some language issue.

developer1 wrote:Of course I don't doubt the words of the reviewer, but I also take into consideration the users I read stating they had tickling issues.
You're probably overlooking the main statement, that those noises are trivial, maybe because you're not able to figure how a ticking noise sounds: whether a Glidestream "clicks" (and it does at very close distance), an F12 may "click" even louder (that's my experience).

developer1 wrote:the Ninja 4 is tentative since the only thing I spend money on my PC is to lower its noise.
Check whether it fits the case and the mobo: comparatively it's really huge.

developer1 wrote:Thanks. I've lowered its speed manually to @600rpm at it's sitting at 46C~ while browsing (forecast says it's 24C today, thought). Now, cpu fan noise is somewhat paired with case fans.
Later I'll do test Prime 95, just for curiosity.
Geez... didn't you tell me that you can't use Speedfan and that you can't lower your fan speed???

developer1 wrote:After reading both Scythe reviews I still can't realise if there will be an acoustic difference between these coolers for a non-overclocker.
What I have on my mind is this: I'm OK with a 2 celsius degrees difference between two coolers at the same noise point, if the CPU can handle that temp rise.
But since I've never tweaked a setup like many of you did, I don't realise if the Ninja 4 will do better than the Kotetsu to reach my purposes.
Start from your load actual temp figures in order to make any somewhat educated guesswork.

developer1
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:32 am

quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:Of course I don't doubt the words of the reviewer, but I also take into consideration the users I read stating they had tickling issues.
You're probably overlooking the main statement, that those noises are trivial, maybe because you're not able to figure how a ticking noise sounds: whether a Glidestream "clicks" (and it does at very close distance), an F12 may "click" even louder (that's my experience).
I just listened closely to my NF-F12 and I heard a "click". Maybe that's the sound. It seems to happen once in a while (when PWM speed changes?)
quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:Thanks. I've lowered its speed manually to @600rpm at it's sitting at 46C~ while browsing (forecast says it's 24C today, thought). Now, cpu fan noise is somewhat paired with case fans.
Later I'll do test Prime 95, just for curiosity.
Geez... didn't you tell me that you can't use Speedfan and that you can't lower your fan speed???
I do can lower fan speed, but I have to "disable" speedfan to play any game because I have to let the fan do its work.


I've decided to go for the Kotetsu. Judging by the SPCR tests it will be a good improvement. I think it will do more than fine for my purposes.

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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:13 am

developer1 wrote:I just listened closely to my NF-F12 and I heard a "click". Maybe that's the sound. It seems to happen once in a while (when PWM speed changes?)

I don't think so, it's like this (please note that's a bad clicking/ticking).

developer1 wrote:I do can lower fan speed, but I have to "disable" speedfan to play any game because I have to let the fan do its work.

Maybe you didn't understand completely what Speedfan does and how it works: did you read the relevant SPCR article?

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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:10 pm

Yesterday I've installed the Sycthe Kotetsu. Despite I've bought it knowing this, I must admit I don't like that it doesn't include a backplate for AMD motherboards.
I'm using the backplate provided by my Asus motherboard, and I don't feel very confortable with the high pressure it makes on the back of the motherboard once the heatsink has been mounted.


Talking about the temperatures, I'm having the same or worst temps than with the Hyper 212 Plus. I'm using the NF-F12 to do a fair comparison, and also at the same ambient temperature.

I've applied Artic Silver 5. One question: I'm using this grease gun I bought 5 years ago and have been using it once in a while, does this matter? The thermal compound inside it is about run off.

Here is a picture of the amount I've applied. I aimed to apply 4.4mm centered in the middle of the core:
DSC_0130.JPG
Was that too thick? I will do my best to describe it: That slim sneaky amount that is slipped over it may be an excess?

Artic Silver 5 pdf says it takes 200 hours of run in. But I wanted to ask if that amount of thermal compound is ok.

quest_for_silence wrote:Maybe you didn't understand completely what Speedfan does and how it works: did you read the relevant SPCR article?
Yeah, I didn't. I've always seen it on SPCR reviews for testing purposes, so I thought it was used to hard set fan speeds.
After reading that article, I've configured speedfan. Here is the CPU fan curve and temps
speedfan.png
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quest_for_silence
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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:14 am

developer1 wrote:Talking about the temperatures, I'm having the same or worst temps than with the Hyper 212 Plus. I'm using the NF-F12 to do a fair comparison, and also at the same ambient temperature.

What about using the Glidestream at no more than 650rpm? Just half an hour of Prime95 smallFFT to assess some scenarios I used to know. Fix the speed with Speedfan in case.

developer1 wrote:I'm using this grease gun I bought 5 years ago and have been using it once in a while, does this matter?

Yes, it might affect to some degree (pun not intended).

developer1 wrote:Artic Silver 5 pdf says it takes 200 hours of run in. But I wanted to ask if that amount of thermal compound is ok.

It's rather ok, but a shot of both the IHS and cooler base would help to assess.
By the way, in my experience the AS curing time is just a marketing bullshit.

developer1 wrote:After reading that article, I've configured speedfan. Here is the CPU fan curve and temps

I still think that probably you're overly conservative: remember that neither the CPU temp nor the Core temp could be that temp mentioned in the AMD specs. If you're really brave you may think to find out the actual PROCHOT and THERMTRIP thresholds of your rig, intentionally overheating your CPU in order to find out at which temp it either throttles or shuts down.
Another check I'd perform is comparing the various temp readings from different pieces of sotware (Core Temp, HWiNFO, SIV, etc) in order to see whether they're coherent or not.
Please take also note that at first glance I wouldn't use the manually controlled Advanced Fan Control: in my experience it might give some weird outcome mixing built-in fan curves with some custom ones (as you did), so IMO it's better to test with that feature disabled, though you'll have a less granular control.

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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by developer1 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:07 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:What about using the Glidestream at no more than 650rpm? Just half an hour of Prime95 smallFFT to assess some scenarios I used to know. Fix the speed with Speedfan in case.
I ran Prime95 smallFTT for half an hour using the Glidestream at 650~ rpm:

Image
quest_for_silence wrote:
developer1 wrote:I'm using this grease gun I bought 5 years ago and have been using it once in a while, does this matter?

Yes, it might affect to some degree (pun not intended).
Do you suggest me to remove it and remount it applying the "brand new" thermal compound provided by Scythe instead?
quest_for_silence wrote: It's rather ok, but a shot of both the IHS and cooler base would help to assess.
By the way, in my experience the AS curing time is just a marketing bullshit.
If I remove the heatsink to take a shot of it, do I have to clean it and apply thermal compound again over a "clean" core (like I did before)? I'm not asking because of laziness, just to know what is the proceedement when you are swapping and testing heatsinks.

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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:33 pm

What stands out to me from your latest HWINFO64 screenshot is the idle temp for the CPU. 42C/45C at 800MHz is high. On the other hand, the motherboard was showing 44C at idle. Was there something else going on - like you had just finished a stress test run with both CPU and GPU and the case was heated up? If so, 10 to 15C over case "ambient" is pretty good for Prime 95.

old thermal paste: if it's still in the tube, the worst case might be some separation of materials...hence the runniness - or maybe because you live in a 45C environment :) ...but, I've never had it happen.

removing cooler for picture taking: The ideal application/pressure will reveal a nearly transparent layer of thermal paste over the center of the CPU/cooler. If you see an opaque layer and fractal lines pattern, then there wasn't a good interface/not enough pressure.

reapplying: Yes, you'd want to clean and reapply.

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Re: Choosing a CPU cooler. And where to buy in Spain?

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:45 am

developer1 wrote:I ran Prime95 smallFTT for half an hour using the Glidestream at 650~ rpm:
Your core/cpu temps look a tad too high: with a 18-20°C ambient temp I'm expecting an about 45°C core temp (that's what I got with a Kotetsu on a 940 X4 3.0gHz/140W).

developer1 wrote:Do you suggest me to remove it and remount it applying the "brand new" thermal compound provided by Scythe instead?

I can't recommend the Scythe paste, as I'm not confident with it, but if I were you I'd would use a new/fresh thermal paste instead of your current AS5. A good option might be the AC mx4 (enough performing, not expensive).

developer1 wrote:If I remove the heatsink to take a shot of it, do I have to clean it and apply thermal compound again over a "clean" core (like I did before)?
Yes, that's what I'd do: even better, I'd also retest your 212 with the Glidestream in order to compare the results (with the 212 those core/CPU temps should probably be 3-5°C worse on average than Kotetsu's ones). You may also check the Glidestream against the F12, as I'm far from sure that the Noctua give the best outcome.

By the way, you should get a footprint like that one:

Image

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