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 Post subject: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Location: Canada
I am looking to replace the fans that come with the Define R5. They are quiet, but they are also pretty bad. I read they are Antec Truequiet 140?

Currently, this is what I have :

Phanteks F140HP as a rear exhaust fan and 2 more of them on my NH-D14. Tomorrow I am getting my Scythe Kotetsu and I will run just one fan on it and with the spare one I can either put it on the bottom of my case or at the front (and replace one of the two GP14).

My temps are good, my delidded 4770k CPU idles at about 21-23C (ambient temp is 21C), full load is 63-65C @ 4.2ghz. My GTX760 @ ~44C idle (dual monitor) reaches 78C with my own profile with the Accelero Xtreme III. I run all Phanteks fans at about 600 rpm. The max is 750rpm during full load.

I would say my computer is about 25dB, but I could be wrong, if the room isnt dead quiet, then you cant hear it.

However, the GP14 are pretty bad fans. Sure, they are quiet, but they dont push air and they have low static pressure, according to the specs. If they are Antec Truequiet 140, they sit in the middle of the pack on SPCR's fan review.

I know the Kotetsu comes with a fan already. Should I just stick to my Phanteks or use the one that comes with it? I know its a glidestream, but its 120mm. Static pressure is a bit less and so is the cfm according to the specs of the GlideStream. Again, according to SPCR they are in the middle of the pack for the 120mm fans, so it looks like my Phanteks fan would be superior.

Now, if I change the GP14 fans, do I buy more Phanteks? Is there something better out there? Antec TwoCool? I am looking for the same noise for more performance or less noise for the same performance, if there is such a thing. I do not know of any fans that actually start at 300rpm and if they will even stay that low at idle. Second, if it runs at 750rpm (or more, because the Phanteks fan are actually good), they might become noisy at full load. My Phanteks are capable of 300rpm, but they start only at ~500-600 and I dont have any automated software that can start the fan then drop the rpm afterwards.

Although my computer is very quiet, I live in a dorm during school year, sometimes I have to run my computer all night and I do sleep like 2 meters away from it, so if there is actually something out there that can outperform the Phanteks, then why not... If not, I will just get more of them to replace the Define R5 fans and the GlideStream.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 1:26 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
I am looking to replace the fans that come with the Define R5. They are quiet, but they are also pretty bad. I read they are Antec Truequiet 140?

Never heard of this, so as far as I know they are two different fans.


MasterBash wrote:
If they are Antec Truequiet 140, they sit in the middle of the pack on SPCR's fan review.

But just a couple of °C from the top (and extremely close to your Phanteks at 600rpm): do those a few degrees matter, in case?


MasterBash wrote:
Now, if I change the GP14 fans, do I buy more Phanteks? Is there something better out there? Antec TwoCool? I am looking for the same noise for more performance or less noise for the same performance, if there is such a thing.

If you read the SPCR review, that TwoCool should give you more performance and "more" noise (due to the lower noise quality).


MasterBash wrote:
I do not know of any fans that actually start at 300rpm and if they will even stay that low at idle.

Your stock Noctua P14 fan should be quite able to do that (my P14 does, when hooked up to a voltage controlled mobo header, it starts reliably at 32% voltage, about 320rpm): the P14r PWM start even lower, with just 10% duty cycle (210-240rpm, depending of sample variance, when hooked up to a true PWM mobo header).
Probably it is not as performing/quiet as the Phanteks at the higher speeds, but did you try your 140mm Noctua versus the Fractal ones? It might turn out as a convenient trade off.
Other fans I know which start reliably around 350-370rpm are the 140mm Prolimatech ones (Blue, Red and Sleek).

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 2:52 am 
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Nevermind, misread. The GP14 are definitely not Antec Truequiet 140mm.

Every temp drop I get matters. However, the TwoCool appears to have about the same performance as the F140HP. The 11dB on the Antec has better performance, but the 19C thermal rise on the Phanteks is better (17 vs 18). In other words, at idle the Antec would give me 2C less, but considering I am already so close to ambient temp, it doesnt matter I dont think. After that, the Phanteks is better. 2dB less for an increase of 1C and it only gets better from then on.

I brought the TwoCool up but I am not really looking forward to it, it doesnt seem to be an upgrade at all.

However, I am very interested about the TY-14x and TY-150. I keep seeing people recommending those fans and I wonder how they compare to the Phanteks. There is also the F140HP II.

I dont like Noctua though, the noise it makes. Its noisier and it sounds worse, which is why I chose the Phanteks fan. It doesnt perform as well too.

Unfortunately, it will have to be a tradeoff. If it starts at very low RPM, it will increase temp at idle which isnt a problem for me, but it will also be performing worse and sound worse than the Phanteks at full load, so temps will rise, while also being noisier... If only the Phanteks fans would start at 300rpm. :D

There is the PH-F140XP that starts at 300rpm. 300-900. Since I never get over 750, it could be a good alternative, but I have no idea how they sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:27 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
However, I am very interested about the TY-14x and TY-150. I keep seeing people recommending those fans and I wonder how they compare to the Phanteks. There is also the F140HP II.

I can only speak about the TY-141, as I own three: despite it's not a badly sounding fan, personally I wouldn't prefer its noise quality over any of the other fans I mentioned. Besides, it won't go that low.


MasterBash wrote:
I dont like Noctua though, the noise it makes. Its noisier and it sounds worse, which is why I chose the Phanteks fan. It doesnt perform as well too.

Well, I don't own those Phanteks, so I can't make any educated guess. But if I were you I would seriously re-evaluate the P14, even noise quality wise, up to about 750-800rpm they're not that bad, IMO/IME.

From http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/ventole.html

Attachment:
pressure_cfm[1].png

Attachment:
rpm_cfm[1].png

Attachment:
dba_cfm[1].png


Please take note that I don't trust the quoted noise measurements, but taken with a huge pinch of salt they may give some clues to carry out a not fully groundless guess.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Last edited by quest_for_silence on Thu May 14, 2015 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:05 am 
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I would go with either

Antec True Quiet 140
Noctua NF-P14s redux-900

Above 1000rpms i yet to find a fan that its not noticeble.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 2:23 am 
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lol.

I installed my Kotetsu today and I decided to run it with the side panel open to hear the noise.

None of my fans are actually making noise, my Hard Drive is the noisiest of all my parts. Seagate Barracuda 4tb 5900rpm... I need to keep it in my case for backups, downloads, etc. Things I dont put on my SSDs.

Ugh. Its not just a little louder, but quite a bit louder. Lets say twice as loud vs fans running at 600rpm (so probably like 12dB each).

I love the Kotetsu though, same temps running benchmarks (obviously side panel on) but its soooooo much smaller and one fan only. I love it.

Oh well, I cant do much about the HDD, its already suspended with shock cords.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:14 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
Oh well, I cant do much about the HDD, its already suspended with shock cords.

Try loosening those cords and, if you have enough space, you can also try to enclose into something like this (suspending it either horizontally or vertically).
Or just swap it with another, quieter model.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:57 am 
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If the HDD is just for occasional use, you can also get more aggressive with it's on/off profile in Windows Power Options (in the Control Panel). Make a custom power plan and turn the HDD off after x minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:01 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
None of my fans are actually making noise, my Hard Drive is the noisiest of all my parts. Seagate Barracuda 4tb 5900rpm... I need to keep it in my case for backups, downloads, etc. Things I dont put on my SSDs.
Sell it, and grab a 4tb WD Red or Green. Im using a WD 3TB Red hard mounted and i cant hear it even in use.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:29 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
If the HDD is just for occasional use, you can also get more aggressive with it's on/off profile in Windows Power Options (in the Control Panel). Make a custom power plan and turn the HDD off after x minutes.


Yep! Set to 5 mins atm and it also seems to calm down even if its not turned off a few minutes after booting.

What do you guys think about WD Red 6TB though? My 4TB is near full.

As for the shock cords, I cant loose them up more than they are right now. If I do, it will either touch my blu-ray drive or the bottom of the case. It is perfectly in the middle of a bay drive.

However, I suspended it but never heard any vibration. Am I better using a 5.25" drive bay enclosure for the HD to dampen the noise? Suspending it is probably unlikely with the size of that, though. I can see what I can do.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:08 am 
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Bumping thread if thats ok.

What if... I bought something like http://www.moddiy.com/products/Silicon- ... -HDD-.html

Put it inside an enclosure. By the way, which enclosure? The Smart Drive reviewed on SPCR doesnt seem to be sold anywhere. Which one would be the best alternative?

Someone suggested me the Scythe enclosure in this thread.. Is it good? Maybe I can put some dense sound dampening foam in it / rubber from moddiy around the HD inside the enclosure, then suspend it or is that totally overkill?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:31 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
By the way, which enclosure?

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=65971


MasterBash wrote:
Whats the starting rpm on the nf-p14 redux fans? I cant find the information. =(

You can't find because there isn't.
Broadly speaking it depends also on the mobo's headers: usually around 200rpm, but on some mobo they start reliably around 300rpm

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:29 am 
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Thanks. Unfortunately all of them except one are out of stock. The only one available has a ridiculous price and probably dont ship to canada. Unfortunately, none of them are available in Canada... Oh well.

Not much I can do about that I guess. =P


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:13 am 
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MasterBash wrote:
Not much I can do about that I guess. =P

You might try to ask to MikeC and Lawrence Lee if they may help you about that.

Another alternative might be found off the bay.

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Ya. I was wondering if it was good. Inexpensive. Does it fit in a 5.25" drivebay no problem?

EDIT: It seems like it does. I found a review and apparently it has ok acoustic performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:03 pm 
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MasterBash wrote:
I found a review and apparently it has ok acoustic performance.

I use the Himuro mini since a while: with 7200rpm drives it's slightly less effective than the original QuietDrive (which I also own), but it's still a noticeable effect muffling motor and airborne noise (even with power hogs like the Constellations).

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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:20 am 
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Hi guys.

Sorry to hijack this thread but I am just building my new PC. It's 12 years since I build my last one :) and I would need some advice from you.

CPU: i7 6700k + Noctua NH-U14S Cooler
Mainboard: Asus Maximus VIII Hero
RAM: G.SKILL TridentZ, 32GB (2x16GB PC2800 @ 14-14-14-35-2N)
Video Card: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G
SSD: Samsung 950 PRO 512GB SSD
PSU: Super Flower Leadex 80 Plus Platinum 650W
Case: Fractal Define R5 Black

I want to replace the stock fans of the R5 and would like to know what would be the best combination.
2 x140mm intake at front and 1x140mm exhaust at back? Which model from Noctua to get?

I can get very good deals on Noctua Fans (almost for free). Thats why I want to go with Noctua fans:).
The idea is to keep it as silent as possible (maybe 600-900rpm tops).


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:56 am 
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Your motherboard has a CPU_OPT PWM header which runs the fan connected to it in sync with the CPU fan header. So you could plug a Noctua NF-A14 PWM fan into the CPU_OPT header and use it to replace the rear exhaust fan. Most Asus motherboards have a BIOS Silent Profile which allows PWM fans to run from a minimum of 20% duty cycle. With the A14 this should give idle speeds for the CPU/CPU_OPT fans of 350 to 450 rpm depending on ambient temperatures. The Asus fan control software could be used to reduce this to more like 250 to 350 rpm. Bear in mind that the Asus Silent Profile holds down fan speeds to the minimum until the CPU temperature hits 40C, after that it will ramp up fan speeds automatically. All Asus motherboards have a CPU temperature at which it will put all motherboard fans to 100%, typically this is 75C.

All the chassis fan headers on your motherboard support PWM or three-pin fans. So you could for example redeploy the 3-pin Fractal exhaust fan as an additional front fan. The issue would be how low you could get the idle speeds for the Fractal 3-pin fans down to with motherboard control. Using the BIOS Silent Profile it would be around 700 rpm; using the Asus fan control software more like 400 rpm. If you would prefer the replace the Fractals then the NF-A14 PWM would be the obvious candidate.

As regards configuration, most people would probably run 2 front intake and 1 exhaust. However if the NF-A14 PWM is being used I would suggest you consider uncovering the rear top exhaust position and run with 2 exhaust fans. This should have little impact on noise levels at idle speeds; under load it should get you somewhat closer to your target speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:12 am 
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So you mean I should only use Noctuas Nf-a14 PWM model? 2 in front intake, 1 exhaust back and 1 exhaust top back?.
Not sure about the one on top but I will give it a try.

I don't have the case and motherboard yet. So no idea where I will need to attach them on the board :). Do I need a splitter or different fan controller?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:03 am 
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Terentino wrote:
I don't have the case and motherboard yet. So no idea where I will need to attach them on the board :). Do I need a splitter or different fan controller?
Your intended motherboard has 4-pin chassis fan headers that support PWM fans. So just plug them into the motherboard, there is no need to use splitters. The Noctua NF-A14 PWM fans come with a shorter fan lead than normal, about 20cm or 8 inches. This can be more convenient when the motherboard headers are close to the fan mounting positions in the case. Where a longer lead is necessary, typically front mounted fans, the extension lead that Noctua supply as standard with this fan can be used. As far as setting up the fans goes once the whole system is installed, the motherboard BIOS offers an auto-tuning facility that will auto-detect the type of fan plugged into the motherboard headers. This auto-tuning includes the option to specify the Silent Profile that will give you the quietest idle speeds possible. Given your choice of graphics card, PSU and case the use of the Noctua NF-A14 PWM fan should at idle give you effectively a silent system. The main issue under load is likely to be graphics card fan noise. But by providing plenty of case ventilation this should at least be moderated.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:56 am 
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@lodestar thanks a lot for your nice detailed reply. Very informative as all of the other replies. Thanks a lot for your support so far. Awesome community!
Should the back exhaust fan (i will exchange it with the same Noctua NF-A14 PWM fan) be connected to the CPU_OPT connector? I think this would be a good idea right? Since I am anyways using 1 Fan on the CPU cooler.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Terentino wrote:
...Should the back exhaust fan (i will exchange it with the same Noctua NF-A14 PWM fan) be connected to the CPU_OPT connector? I think this would be a good idea right? Since I am anyways using 1 Fan on the CPU cooler.
Yes, that's exactly right.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:20 am 
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Hi guys! Me again with some questions :).

So I got myself 3x NF-A14 PWM fans.
- 2x front intake
- 1x back exhaust

How should I connect them to the VIII HERO?
- 2x front intake: us provided Y splitter and connect to a PWM connector on the board or connect each fan individual to the board
- 1x back exhaust: connect individual to the CPU_OPT connector or use a chassis fan PWM connector? Or should I use the Y splitter and connect both CPU and rear Exhaust to the CPU connector?

Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S
Graphic: 1x GTX 970 MSI Gaming 4G
Does it make sense to add another NF-A14 PWM at the bottom for intake?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:01 am 
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Terentino wrote:
...How should I connect them to the VIII HERO? - 2x front intake: us provided Y splitter and connect to a PWM connector on the board or connect each fan individual to the board
If you connect the front intakes to a motherboard header each it does allow the option of using a different setting for each one. But if it is more convenient to use the supplied Y PWM splitter cable then that will be perfectly OK. Two fans on one header is well within the capacity of the motherboard. Both fans will run at the same setting, the Y cable will report the rpm of only one of them. As they are both the same fan this will not matter.
Terentino wrote:
- 1x back exhaust: connect individual to the CPU_OPT connector or use a chassis fan PWM connector? Or should I use the Y splitter and connect both CPU and rear Exhaust to the CPU connector?
Using the CPU_OPT for the exhaust ensures that it runs at the same PWM duty cycle setting as the CPU. Running the exhaust and CPU fans in sync like this is a setup that gamers have been using for years. While the Asus CPU_OPT header does not allow fan settings it does report the fan rpm. The issue with PWM splitters is that they can only report the speed of one fan on the chain.
Terentino wrote:
...Does it make sense to add another NF-A14 PWM at the bottom for intake?
When SPCR tested the Define R5 it was found that adding a bottom intake fan didn't make any significant difference to either GPU or CPU temperatures. But try it yourself and see.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:09 am 
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Cool, thanks a lot for your help.
I`ll go for the front intakes ones with the splitter and the exhaust individual on CPU_OPT.
Waiting for the CPU and PSU on Monday to finish the build :).
Any other useful info to be aware when building? or some good BIOS/FAN settings?


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Terentino wrote:
...or some good BIOS/FAN settings?
You can use the BIOS Q-Fan Tuning to set all the fans automatically - this should set them to the lowest speeds. Alternatively, setting up the fans manually in the BIOS is not that difficult. For the CPU Fan set the Fan Profile to Silent. For the chassis fans you may find the default Q-Fan Control setting is DC mode, make sure it is set to PWM Mode. Also set the Chassis Fan Profile to Silent. That's it.

How the Asus Silent BIOS Profile works is that it holds fans down to the minimum duty cycle until the CPU temperature exceeds 40C. With the NF-A14 this minimum duty cycle is 20%, so you should see idle speeds/low system stress fan speeds of around 350 to 450 rpm. The precise figure will vary according to ambient temperature. Under load all the fans will automatically ramp up, and should reach a balance point hopefully somewhat short of their maximum speeds. Thermally controlled case air flow like this should also help keep the graphics fan speeds, and noise down.

The other option you have is to use the Asus Fan Xpert software, a free download from their web site. There are some useful options in Fan Xpert that might be worth considering. One of them is Fan Stop for Chassis fans. This allows the Chassis fans to be set to stay off until a set CPU temperature, typically 50C. So at idle/low system stress the front fans would stay off and only the exhaust fan would be running to provide case air flow. It would involve trading higher CPU and motherboard temperatures for less noise, but under these conditions it is feasible. Under gaming loads the CPU temperature will exceed 50C and the stopped fans will turn on. Generally it is probably easier to try the BIOS settings first, and only use Fan Xpert if you can't achieve the noise levels you are looking for.


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 Post subject: Re: Replacement fans in Define R5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:02 am 
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Cool, thanks for the tips. Can't wait to build the system next week.


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