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 Post subject: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:05 am 
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Location: Rome, Italy
Hi guys, I was wondering adding an intake fan to the setup you can see in signature, but since the bottom slot isn't usable (long non modular psu), I was thinking about adapting another 120mm fan on the front panel, channelling air into the unused 3.5 and 5.25 bay:
Image

here an example with a 120 standard fan, that clamps its frame with the two protruding rivets near the 3.5 bay and can be fastened with some blu-tac
Image

The issue is that with a standard 25mm fan I can't mount back the front panel, but with a slim one it should be ok. I can get a Scythe Slip Stream Slim 800 rpm for about 10€ and like to know if you think it's worth.

Regards

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:37 am 
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mc.god wrote:
I can get a Scythe Slip Stream Slim 800 rpm for about 10€ and like to know if you think it's worth.

I often used slim fans from Scythe and Prolimatech as heatsinks fans, and I always found them as good or very good.

Said that, as I never had the 800rpm Slipstream, my guess is that it should work set aside the unknown interaction with the specific intake grille (we can't know without mounting it).

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:06 am 
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My concern is indeed about the fact that the fan will not have a free air input, as my case front panel doesen't have a direct fan grille but only a perimetral mesh, also the fan will be filtered just like the other below. Given it's slim profile and low rpm I'm afraid that it will just ad some noise without moving significant air.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 5:41 am 
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Location: ITALY
mc.god wrote:
Given it's slim profile and low rpm I'm afraid that it will just ad some noise without moving significant air.

I can only tell you that the 1600rpm Slipstream Slim PWM (originally fitted onto the first Big Shuriken) move about the same air of the (regular 25mm thickness) Scythe Slipstream M (1200rpm), maybe with a tad more noise (but, at 800rpm max, I think fan own noise should be the last of your concerns, so that I'd use an higher speed model).

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:32 am 
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Location: Rome, Italy
well, maybe I'll give a try when the 1200 rpm version wil be in stock again at my local seller or when I'll put the next cumulative online order.

thanks again.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 6:35 am 
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can the fans be placed on the inside of the case? preferably by removing HDD rack or just mounting to back of hdd rack.

pics of the rest of the case' airflow would help. and so would temps during your maximum use scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 10:27 am 
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Location: Rome, Italy
inside the case is a bit cramped with 1 ssd, 2 hdd and 2 optical drive, I can't remove the hdd cage.

Image

Temps are variable since i can play around with all the fans speed via the rheobus and the mobo software, at the moment I almost don't even do heavy tasks, just casual gaming. I'm just thinking about a rearrangement of the fans configuration. I previously had as side intake an Aerocool Shark 140 (800-1500 rpm) that now is in the PSU (swapped the original noisy fan), and the 2 Lightning 140 were either on the top. Since these are sleeve bearing and vibrate in horizontal position, I was thinking about replacing them for a while, and so I put one on the side in place of the Shark and placed on top one F12 that I had spare. But the Lighning, with its filter, doesn't push much air, and here in Rome we are already at 30°C in the afternoon, so I thought about adding the slim fan on the front, in order to keep a bit cooler the GTX770 when gaming, so that it doesn't ramp up too much their 3 80mm fans, that can go up to 3500 rpm :x
But, to be honest, consider this as just a whim of mine, hunger of making some mods to my rig (I think all pc enthusiasts have moments like this once in a while :lol: ) Sorry if my explanation is a bit contorted :roll:

About the other Lighning fan I'm still deciding what to do, if replacing either the top fans (2 beQuiet Purewings or Noiseblocker XK1\XK2) or just swap the Lightning with another F12, that is simply too much affordable for thinking to something else.

Regards

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


Last edited by mc.god on Tue May 05, 2015 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:03 pm 
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mc.god wrote:
About the other Lighning fan I'm still deciding what to do, if replacing either the top fans (2 beQuiet Purewings or Noiseblocker XK1\XK2) or just swap the Lightning with another F12, that is simply too much affordable for thinking to something else.

Unless you want to stick with the AC F12, for about five bucks more a Noctua NF-P14 Redux will be a safer bet than the weak beQuiet or the old Noiseblocker. Another good and cheap option is usually the Prolimatech Blue/Red Vortex.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Location: Rome, Italy
I mentioned those models after hearing sound samples of a group of 140 mm fans on an interesting site, don't know if i can post the link, let me know since it could be interesting for many peoples.
They were among those I preferred for sound tonality (not just level) and easily available in italy (the samples of bequiet were for silentwings and shadowwings, i suppose purewings can be similar). Noctua nf-p14 is proven good but not on top for me, another model I liked a lot is Thermalright X-silent, but seems really hard to find here. Prolimatech Red\Blu Vortex seems also good, but it says they are standard sleeve bearing, do you think they can go horizontally blowiing upward with no issues (just as my Lightnings)?

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:45 pm 
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mc.god wrote:
don't know if i can post the link

Yes, you can.


mc.god wrote:
They were among those I preferred for sound tonality (not just level) and easily available in italy (the samples of bequiet were for silentwings and shadowwings, i suppose purewings can be similar). Noctua nf-p14 is proven good but not on top for me

IMO the Noctuas, at least up to 900rpm, are competitive with almost any fan: above all, differently from the beQuiet ones, and partially the Noiseblockers, they are not that weak at the first fan's job, I mean cooling.


mc.god wrote:
Prolimatech Red\Blu Vortex seems also good, but it says they are standard sleeve bearing, do you think they can go horizontally blowiing upward with no issues (just as my Lightnings)?

Well, I've no experience of a long term use of those fans when placed horizontally, so I can't help: what I can surely say about them is that apparently they have no issue running that way (I'm stress testing a gaming tonight, and I placed a Blue horizontally right now over the case, just for a quick'n'dirty check: I'll leave it there all night long, in order to see tomorrow if anything has changed noise-wise, but I don't think that will happen, even with the worst sleeve bearing fan).

Broadly speaking sleeve bearing fans may be less reliable when mounted that way, they can wear out more quickly, but that higher probability is far from being a certainty (I don't know your Lightining, but from what you say they don't seem such good fans).

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:39 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Yes, you can.

nice, you can find it here http://tinyurl.com/n7a7dzw

quest_for_silence wrote:
IMO the Noctuas, at least up to 900rpm, are competitive with almost any fan: above all, differently from the beQuiet ones, and partially the Noiseblockers, they are not that weak at the first fan's job, I mean cooling.

I was just referring to my personal preference after hearing the above samples, I'll keep in mind all your advices before deciding.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Well, I've no experience of a long term use of those fans when placed horizontally, so I can't help: what I can surely say about them is that apparently they have no issue running that way (I'm stress testing a gaming tonight, and I placed a Blue horizontally right now over the case, just for a quick'n'dirty check: I'll leave it there all night long, in order to see tomorrow if anything has changed noise-wise, but I don't think that will happen, even with the worst sleeve bearing fan).

Broadly speaking sleeve bearing fans may be less reliable when mounted that way, they can wear out more quickly, but that higher probability is far from being a certainty (I don't know your Lightining, but from what you say they don't seem such good fans).

Yea, sure they are really cheap fans (6.50 € each) with 20.000 hour mtbf. The issue they give working horizontally aren't much about noise but about vibrations, they transmit really preceivable undulations to the entire case and suffer a noticeable loss of performance, since can reach berely 950 rpm when they are rated at 1200. The one I just placed vertically on the side panel now ramp up to 1120 rpm and doesn't vibrate, at least not so much (but I attache it wit patafix, while the horizontal one is just fastened with standard screw, it's another thing i want to check).
Surely better sleeve bearing fans will perform well horizontally, but I'd prefer rely on more advance bearing if possible. Anyway I'm very interested in hearing the results of your night-time test on the Prolima, expecially regarding vibrations.

Have a good night.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 2:17 am 
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mc.god wrote:
nice, you can find it here http://tinyurl.com/n7a7dzw

Nice catch: by the way, please mind that, as far as I can see, they shouln't have tested that Noctua P14.


mc.god wrote:
I was just referring to my personal preference after hearing the above samples, I'll keep in mind all your advices before deciding.

You're welcome, but use some pinches of salt: at 10cm a fan doesn't sound as either in a case or at greater distance, a mic cannot capture the "true" sound (level, frequency and time response are rather different from human ones) and, as said above, more probably that not they didn't actually tested the P14 but the A14/A15 (there should be a typo somewhere, even if I can't point you out exactly where ATM), which is somewhat known for a tad different sound signature.


mc.god wrote:
suffer a noticeable loss of performance, since can reach berely 950 rpm when they are rated at 1200. The one I just placed vertically on the side panel now ramp up to 1120 rpm and doesn't vibrate, at least not so much

It's not strictly related to the bearing technologies: my 900rpm NoiseBlocker BlackSilent Pros do the same (spin somehow slower when placed horizontally, and somehow slower when used as exhaust or heatsink fans), even if they don't vibrate as your Lightinings. How well does your F12 behave, when horizontally mounted?


mc.god wrote:
Surely better sleeve bearing fans will perform well horizontally, but I'd prefer rely on more advance bearing if possible. Anyway I'm very interested in hearing the results of your night-time test on the Prolima, expecially regarding vibrations.

As probably expected, nothing has changed in the Blue's noise signature and I'm not noticing any remarkable vibration touching the frame: indeed they are the best cheap fans (at the 140mm size) among the ones I tested (even if the rotation is visibly less "stable" than something like either an heavy Silverstone FHP-141, or the quoted Noctua P14r Redux).

By the way, if I didn't misunderstand you, your concerns involve different aspects: how much heavy is the frame, the actual current draw, how large is the rotor, how much light are the blades, how rigid is the relevant mounting (probably a shock absorber would work well with your current fans, moreover a metal on metal solution emphasizes resonances and vibrations), how restrictive is the grille (which put some back pressure on the fan), and so on.

Did you ever think to swap the case? I think it could be a more straightforward option than tinkering around your Ostrog. :wink:

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 4:05 am 
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Location: Rome, Italy
quest_for_silence wrote:
You're welcome, but use some pinches of salt: at 10cm a fan doesn't sound as either in a case or at greater distance, a mic cannot capture the "true" sound (level, frequency and time response are rather different from human ones) and, as said above, more probably that not they didn't actually tested the P14 but the A14/A15 (there should be a typo somewhere, even if I can't point you out exactly where ATM), which is somewhat known for a tad different sound signature.

I'm aware that a sound sample can't thoroughly depict the real behaviour, but comparing samples taken in the same conditions helps getting an idea about various models and is always better than going blindly. Just as an example, hearing the clicky Glide Stream sample would make me think of it as a really annoying fan, but hearing closely at the one on my Kotetsu I know that the clicks is really barely preceivable into the case. Nonetheless, the sound pattern is certainly the same shown in the sample.
About the Noctua P14, I don't know if they tested it or not, but there are 2 distinct sound samples, one for the A, one for the P, sounding pretty different, so I believe they are real.

quest_for_silence wrote:

It's not strictly related to the bearing technologies: my 900rpm NoiseBlocker BlackSilent Pros do the same (spin somehow slower when placed horizontally, and somehow slower when used as exhaust or heatsink fans), even if they don't vibrate as your Lightinings. How well does your F12 behave, when horizontally mounted?

Ok, but as said everywhere, standard sleeve bearing is certainly more prone to those issues. This evening I can make a comparison between the horizontal F12 on top and the vertical one on the back, I'll let you know.

quest_for_silence wrote:
As probably expected, nothing has changed in the Blue's noise signature and I'm not noticing any remarkable vibration touching the frame: indeed they are the best cheap fans (at the 140mm size) among the ones I tested (even if the rotation is visibly less "stable" than something like either an heavy Silverstone FHP-141, or the quoted Noctua P14r Redux).

Interesting, but here I can find it (red vortex) only at Amazon, at about 16€, even more than a Noctua redux, don't seem so cheap.

quest_for_silence wrote:
By the way, if I didn't misunderstand you, your concerns involve different aspects: how much heavy is the frame, the actual current draw, how large is the rotor, how much light are the blades, how rigid is the relevant mounting (probably a shock absorber would work well with your current fans, moreover a metal on metal solution emphasizes resonances and vibrations), how restrictive is the grille (which put some back pressure on the fan), and so on.

Did you ever think to swap the case? I think it could be a more straightforward option than tinkering around your Ostrog. :wink

Eheheh, the ostrog was the best choice I could make under some restrictions I have about size, i really can't get anything bigger\larger or other form factor at the moment. Maybe there are more qualitative choice even in this size, but I like it, and also, as i said earlier, I'm going through this primarily for fun, and the fun is exactly searching solutions and alternatives, I think you can understand me.

And just about this matter, coming back to the thread title, instead of the slim 120 mm fan at front I think that a 80x80x25mm fan (if not a 92mm) can fit at the back of the hdd cage, blowing under the GTX770. What do you think it's better?

bye

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Location: Rome, Italy
Tested the 2 F12 in both positions, all other conditions were identical: well, horizontally it vibrates a little, but just vibrations that can surely be absorbed using rubber grommets or blu-tak, nothing far similar to the undulations generated by the Lightning in same position.
Talking about performance, both reached the same exact speed of 1470 rpm at maximum voltage, no matter the orientation.

Talking about the Lightnig mounted on top, I must rettify and say that the loss in speed isn't probably due to the orientation but to the case grill. It was at maximum at 1020 rpm, then I tilted the entire pc placing it horizontally on the ground (so the fan reached a vertical orientation) and the speed didn't changed, again 1020 but almost all undulations disappeared. The other Lightning on the side panel can reach 1140 rpm, but I didn't consider that the panel grill is now gone.

Final thought, I just measured the back of the hdd cage and it is 100x100mm, so a 92 mm fan can fit really well, i think i'm switching toward this solution instead of the slim front fan.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:05 am 
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mc.god wrote:
I'm aware that a sound sample can't thoroughly depict the real behaviour, but comparing samples taken in the same conditions helps getting an idea about various models and is always better than going blindly.

Indeed, as I said, use some pinches of salt.


mc.god wrote:
About the Noctua P14, I don't know if they tested it or not, but there are 2 distinct sound samples, one for the A, one for the P, sounding pretty different, so I believe they are real.

Just double check: I'm quite dubious they did, because I'm not able to find the P14 on those graphs (and I didn't find a P14 review).


mc.god wrote:
Interesting, but here I can find it (red vortex) only at Amazon, at about 16€, even more than a Noctua redux, don't seem so cheap.

Pricing may vary on location and time basis: I bought a bunch of them a while ago at about eight or nine euros from TiburCC in Rome, now in Italy the lowest price I can see is from Alternate, 10-11 euros (but you can find them at 8,90 euros from Caseking). So, if you need just a couple of fans, probably current conditions are not favourable to let you buy them over the AC F14.


mc.god wrote:
instead of the slim 120 mm fan at front I think that a 80x80x25mm fan (if not a 92mm) can fit at the back of the hdd cage, blowing under the GTX770. What do you think it's better?

A larger fan almost always is the best bet, but... who knows? Is a larger but slim and slower fan between a restrictive grille and a restrictive cage actually better for your hot potato than a free standing, faster but smaller, regular thickness fan at the same overall noise level? Frankly I don't know.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:04 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Pricing may vary on location and time basis: I bought a bunch of them a while ago at about eight or nine euros at TiburCC in Rome, now in Italy the lowest price I can see is from Alternate, 10-11 euros (but you can find them at 8,90 euros from Caseking). So, if you need just a couple of fans, probably current conditions are not favourable to let you buy them over the AC F14

Oh my goodness, when you say the world is small... TiburCC is really close to my home and one of mine preferred seller when I don't buy online ;) Sadly at the moment they have nothing interesting at 140mm, AC F14 doesn't seem as appealing as F12 in a couple of review.
Anyway, after much reasoning, I think I'm going to follow your advices and go for a complete switch to NF-P14s Redux, even for the side panel, discarding all the weak Lightnings and one F12. I didn't notice that they are available at Amazon, so I can save the shipping costs and use them for a third fan. I'm thinking af putting 2x900 rpm model on top OUT and the 1200 rpm at side IN, but don't know if it will have much sense since they will be controlled by the rheobus, expecially about how low I can manage to drive them. Any hint?

quest_for_silence wrote:
A larger fan almost always is the best bet, but... who knows? Is a larger but slim and slower fan between a restrictive grille and a restrictive cage actually better for your hot potato than a free standing, faster but smaller, regular thickness fan at the same overall noise level? Frankly I don't know.

Obviously no one can know, i think I'll go trying the hdd cage solution buying an AC F9, that is absolutely inexpensive, and see if it turns out usefull or not.

[EDIT]
Thanks for letting me know Alternate.it, I ignored it... Anyway I can't see any Prolimatech fan there... but they have some other fans I was interested in, like Thermalrigt X-silent... Now I'm uncertain again, lol.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


Last edited by mc.god on Thu May 07, 2015 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:44 pm 
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mc.god wrote:
Any hint?

I don't know your rheobus, even if Scythe ones usually have fairly wide voltage ranges.
Said that, I don't think there's a noticeable difference between the 900 and 1200 version, so probably I'd pick the faster one for all the mountings due to the greater flexibility (take note, I'd never use them at full speed, they're rather loud, but it's nice to have that possibility).


mc.god wrote:
Anyway I can't see any Prolimatech fan there

As said, those fans availability seems rather spotty, nowadays: I checked when I answered, now they seem vanished and I've no explanation for that.

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Luca

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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:36 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
I don't know your rheobus, even if Scythe ones usually have fairly wide voltage ranges.

It works from a minimum of 5V to a maximum of 12V in 8 steps of 0.80V (has switches, not continuous knobs), with the possibility to stop any fan completely.

quest_for_silence wrote:
Said that, I don't think there's a noticeable difference between the 900 and 1200 version, so probably I'd pick the faster one for all the mountings due to the greater flexibility (take note, I'd never use them at full speed, they're rather loud, but it's nice to have that possibility).

I agree completely. Full speed would be an option when the gtx 770 is under heavy load and their three 80mm fans will ramp at 3000 rpm or more, at that point the case fans noise becomes the last problem ^^ (and there is always the noise of the psu, that has improved with the new fan but it's still not very pleasant under load)

quest_for_silence wrote:
As said, those fans availability seems rather spotty, nowadays: I checked when I answered, now they seem vanished and I've no explanation for that.

Some kind of black magic :o :lol:

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:39 am 
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Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
Oh, well, things ended something different.
I found a good deal for a Phanteks PF-H140TS Blue, it was at €9.90 at Multiplayer.com, probably because it where the last in stock and the model is now discontinued. Since they have fair shipping costs, I decided to order it, adding then 2x BeQuiet Pure Wings 2 140 at €9.90 each.
I know You said they are slightly weak, but I read some really good reviews, and having 2 of them + 1 F12 all as exhaust I think they will be more than enough. About the Phanteks, I read many pleasant reviews and just here on SPCR it won the roundup with the Noctua A14 and P14 as well, so I think it was a good choice at that price. And in the end, shipping included, I saved €13.00 compared to bouying 3 Noctua Redux at Amazon.
Now I'm waiting for the shipment, in the meantime I'll see to get the AC F9 for the HDD cage, if it comes back in stock at Tiburcc.
But what I really should do is buying a good pair of tin snips and getting rid of that annoying grill under the PSU (I can't even get why they place it there instead of leaving an empty square, since the all PSU already have their protection grill and the case has the bottom filter too as a protection :\ )

Regards.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
mc.god wrote:
I know You said they are slightly weak

Well, I think there's no problem: even I bought some Noiseblockers just because I liked their sound signature, even if I knew those ones were a bit weak at airflow.


mc.god wrote:
But what I really should do is buying a good pair of tin snips and getting rid of that annoying grill under the PSU

http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B001O2S4UQ

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
quest_for_silence wrote:

I was thinking about a tool like that and just put a good proxxon in my wishlist, but I don't want to disassemble the entire pc for this job and I'm not confident of working inside it with a tool that generates al that metal dust and sparkles. I read an old but very interesting guide here on using tin snips, so I more prone to it.
Either the case, first I will have to do some practice with the chosen tool, since I'm pretty noob of this kind of works.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:35 pm 
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Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
mc.god wrote:
but I don't want to disassemble the entire pc for this job

IME it's not possible modding anything without disassembling everything (at least, whether you aim to a clean job).


mc.god wrote:
I read an old but very interesting guide here on using tin snips, so I more prone to it.

I don't recall what you're referring to: by the way, I think that we call "roditrice manuale" what north american people often mean for "tin snips" (the proper english name should be "nibbler", if I didn't misunderstand).

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:33 am 
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Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
I was referring to this very old topic http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2307
And no, tin snips (or aviation snips) are "cesoie per metallo", something like this http://www.amazon.it/dp/B00133QOP8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=4S23HM6Q683C&coliid=I2N06X15ORAND5
Here a good tutorial for making round duct holes https://youtu.be/8QsiOppAU1s
Since the grill is already thin and weak itself, working like this i think I can avoid removing all components from the case, just the more fragile like the hdds.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:15 am 
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Posts: 5275
Location: ITALY
mc.god wrote:

Do you think that you will be able to do anything with just one pair? I'm afraid those things are like screwdrivers, you always miss the right one.
Besides, as said by the OP you linked, he never used a nibbler, which is slower, but offer a greater control degree.


mc.god wrote:
Here a good tutorial for making round duct holes https://youtu.be/8QsiOppAU1s

Hey dude, do you really think that man did a good job? Sorry, I pretend much more precision and far better finishing quality (at least, for a PC enclosure).


mc.god wrote:
Since the grill is already thin and weak itself, working like this i think I can avoid removing all components from the case, just the more fragile like the hdds.

IME anything should be done all parts torn down, period, but feel free to act as you think best!

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Luca

Support SPCR, use these links when you buy: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:12 am 
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Well, as I said, I'm still evaluating the way to proceed.
That said:
1) surely removing all the parts from the pc should be better, but if I can manage to do the job more quickly, in a safe way and with less effort, I'll always prefer that way. And this bring us to the second point...
2) probably snips are less precise than other tools (but I suppose it is all about how skilled you are with the tools, and I'm at 0 with either ), but honestly, I don't care at all about the aesthetical matter, expecially talking about a grill on the bottom side of the case, covered by a filter. It can be a square, circular or elliptical hole, I only care that it stops making extra noise. And if I have to show you the "awesome" white tape I placed all around the hole, after removing the grill on the black side panel, I really think you could end throwing up :lol:

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:48 am
Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
Nice, after all this talking and serching, I probably ended making the most stupid of mistakes, buying in a rush, appealed by the good price of a last stock item :\
Since normally Phanteks fans aren't easily available here and a bit pricy, i never analysed all their models too well, and so I ended precisely as another user here, that i quote from a nother topic:

MajmuN wrote:
Maybe it's a way too old article to edit now, but I suggest the Phanteks PH-140HP/TS should be named only PH-140HP to avoid confusion. I was a little too fast and unfortunately bought the TS version (the one with straight struts). I regret it, even at 5v it's quite loud, louder than my Fractal fans at 1000 rpm oddly enough. I suppose the HP variant is a much better one given the positive review here.
http://www.phanteks.com/PH-F140TS.html
http://www.phanteks.com/PH-F140HP.html


Reviews of this specific "old" TS model are rather contrasting, some say it's really good and quiet, others refer of unpleasant noises, expecially bearing rustle :? Probably it was affected by a large variability, so I have to hope to be lucky on my specific unit, but now I'm a bit pissed of making an unhappy choice... Blame on me and on all those manufacturers that love to call their models with all this resembling names :x
Well, if the fan will be noisy... I just have to leave the psu grill untouched, so the psu noise will continue to overcome the fans :lol: :lol: :lol: :cry: :cry: :cry:

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:48 am
Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
Fans shipped.
At a first quick test (I'll install them the next weekend):
1) Pure Wings 2 140 seems really good to me, very silent and no vibrations at every speed and orientation, with my controller i can set them between 420-990 rpm, seems to move good amount of air even at the lower speed. Really pleased.
2) Phanteks 140TS unfortunately seems to confirm the bearing problems I'v read about. It produce a slightly rubbing\rustling noise either vertically and horizontally blowing up, that almost disappears horizontally but blowing down.
The noise is similar to what you can hear in these videos

https://youtu.be/QFYsd_nRjXY
https://youtu.be/5y170v7IARE?t=3m55s

Bearing apart, it seems rather quiet in regard to air turbulence\noise aven at full speed and it moves a really good amount of air. With my controller i can set it between 630-1230.
I have to chek how the bearing rustling will be when mounted on the side panel, hope it won't be annoying, otherwise I'll stick with my Lightning 140, that is pretty quiet and in vertical position doesn't vibrate.
I'd have ordered 3 Pure Wings :x

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


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 Post subject: Re: slim fan is worth?
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:48 am
Posts: 28
Location: Rome, Italy
Installed all the new fans, in the end i have to say I'm satisfied, Pure wings confirmed for pretty good fans, all undulations of the case disappeared and decent air output even at barely minimum speed. The Phanteks put into the case performs better than I thought, the slight rustling becomes perceivable only at higher speeds, at wich the fan has however a good noise tonality.
We'll see how it is after I'll remove the bottom psu grill.

_________________
Intel i5-4570 + Scythe Kotetsu (stock fan)
Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
16 Gb DDR3
Gainward GTX770 2Gb (3x80mm fans)
PSU XFX Pro 650 Core (swapped fan with Aerocool Shark 140 and cut away the grille)
1 SSD + 2 HDD 7200rpm
Case Enermax Ostrog
Rheobus Scythe Kaze Chrono
Fans - front IN: Silverstone AP121 - side IN: Phanteks PH-F140TS - top OUT: 2xBeQuiet PureWings 2 140 - rear OUT: Arctic F12


Top
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