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 Post subject: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Just built a new system, which is described in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69951&p=607271#p607271

I ended up adding a Noctua NF-A14 PWM fan as a 2nd (lower) case fan, to blow more air over the Palit fanless GPU. This is supposed to be a very quiet fan.

I found that there are two main sources of noise in the system. One is the fan on the stock AMD cooler (Wraith Stealth). It's pretty loud, but I think it doesn't have a reputation of being a very quiet fan. Lowering the speed helps, but it's not all that quiet at lower speeds. It's typical high-pitched fan noise. I plan to replace either the fan or the whole cooler.

But the more surprising source of noise is the Noctua fan. I was hearing a low-pitched hum coming from somewhere, and took a while to identify it, but it's the Noctua. If I stop it w/ my finger, or unplug it, noise goes away. The stock case fans from the Fractal case air almost silent, although the Noctua is a more expensive fan. I tried pressing on various parts of the case, thinking it could be some sort of vibration, but so far only stopping the fan does the trick. It's been running around 750 RPM or so at idle.

I suppose it's possible I just got a lemon, but could there be some other source of the sound? Could it be a vibration I can't pin down? Could it be some problem w/ how my mobo is controlling the PWM fans? (Both noisy fans are PWM, the stock case fans are not.) What else should I test before deciding I got a bad Noctua fan?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:47 pm 
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750rpm at idle is pretty high. The fan works down to 300rpm and that's it's biggest recommendation.

Mess around with your bios fan profile...see what it sounds like at 300rpm and then bump it up from there. Can't imagine that you'd need to run it higher than 500rpm to keep the gfx card cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Imo the NF-A14 is not that great, not bad but nothing to brag about, its a decent fan. Certain fans have certain ranges that they produce certain resonance, try as steve suggested to lower it more, 750rpm for the palit is not needed, the cooler itself is design to run without a fan, so just pushing a little air through it will help you with the temps a lot, even if its 500rpm or lower.

Now if you are looking for a better fan, BeQuiet SilentWings3 are pretty solid, i use the BL067 which is the PWM version and to me its the best case fan i own atm. If you dont want to spend too much, Antec True Quiet 140 (3pin voltage controlled) is a good option and pretty cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:36 am 
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Thanks, will try that.

Can either of you give me an idea of how hot I can let the Palit get without concern? Did a bit of non-graphically-intensive gaming yesterday and per HWMonitor the GPU temp was mostly in the 50s celcius, with a few spikes into the low 60s. (And that was with a single front intake fan.) That's fine, right? At what temp do I get concerned and think: I need more cooling to run this game?


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:38 am 
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Also, as long as I'm asking about the Palit: in my mobo the GPU is directly on top of the M.2 slot, where my primary SSD resides. Do I need to worry at all about the GPU getting hot enough that it has adverse effects on the SSD?


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am 
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70C is awesome, 75C is fine, even wandering up to 80C is ok. At some point, the gpu will throttle.

Which M.2 SSD did you get?...from your build thread I thought it was a 2.5"...

In any case, probably not a big impact on the SSD...self heating of the SSD's memory controller chip is usually the bigger deal...and why newer generations of SSDs have a copper foil over the top as a heat spreader. The same case fan blowing some air over the gfx card will also blow some air over the SSD.

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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Location: Bellingham, WA
The lower fan curve on the Noctua definitely helped. Thanks, all!

Decided to get a smaller NVME SSD (960 EVO) to start, for OS and heavily used programs. Will likely still add a larger SATA later when I start needing more storage. But hoping prices fall a bit before buying.


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:54 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
70C is awesome, 75C is fine, even wandering up to 80C is ok. At some point, the gpu will throttle. ...
Somewhere I read that Pascal GPUs reduce their speed a bit even at temperatures decidedly below "throttling". Can't recall the lower limit but it's supposedly quite low, like 60C or so.
Can't confirm this info though, so take it as a rumor for now. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:36 am 
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Olle P wrote:
CA_Steve wrote:
70C is awesome, 75C is fine, even wandering up to 80C is ok. At some point, the gpu will throttle. ...
Somewhere I read that Pascal GPUs reduce their speed a bit even at temperatures decidedly below "throttling". Can't recall the lower limit but it's supposedly quite low, like 60C or so.
Can't confirm this info though, so take it as a rumor for now. :(

While folding, I've witnessed this firsthand on Maxwell (GTX 970). NVidia-smi will show power usage and it will cap at 140W if the card is running quite hot (which it usually wil be, if the GPU is folding). If I manually set the GPU fans to a higher RPM and / or decrease ambient temperature in the case (the former is easier), the GPU temperature will drop and the usage will rise up to 180-190W (IIRC). I'm not sure what the limit is - and don't really need to know since the system does not need to be quiet when it is folding, since I'm not anywhere near it when it is doing that - but it is certainly possible the tipping point is around 60°C, from what I've seen.

If it does that on Maxwell, it is more than possible it does so on Pascal, too...


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Abula wrote:
Imo the NF-A14 is not that great, not bad but nothing to brag about, its a decent fan. Certain fans have certain ranges that they produce certain resonance, try as steve suggested to lower it more, 750rpm for the palit is not needed, the cooler itself is design to run without a fan, so just pushing a little air through it will help you with the temps a lot, even if its 500rpm or lower.

Now if you are looking for a better fan, BeQuiet SilentWings3 are pretty solid, i use the BL067 which is the PWM version and to me its the best case fan i own atm. If you dont want to spend too much, Antec True Quiet 140 (3pin voltage controlled) is a good option and pretty cheap.


Which do you like better, Silent Wings 3 PWM or TY-147 series?


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:22 pm 
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lb_felipe wrote:
Abula wrote:
Imo the NF-A14 is not that great, not bad but nothing to brag about, its a decent fan. Certain fans have certain ranges that they produce certain resonance, try as steve suggested to lower it more, 750rpm for the palit is not needed, the cooler itself is design to run without a fan, so just pushing a little air through it will help you with the temps a lot, even if its 500rpm or lower.

Now if you are looking for a better fan, BeQuiet SilentWings3 are pretty solid, i use the BL067 which is the PWM version and to me its the best case fan i own atm. If you dont want to spend too much, Antec True Quiet 140 (3pin voltage controlled) is a good option and pretty cheap.


Which do you like better, Silent Wings 3 PWM or TY-147 series?
Mmmm...mmmm.... mmm, different purpose fans, the TY147A is a 140 on 120 frame common on coolers like Noctua NH-U14, NH-D14/15, Thermalright HR22, HR02, Macho, LeGrand Macho, Archon, True Spirit 140, Silver Arrow, etc, while the Silentwings 3 are standard 140mm fames so more for case fans =) (i believe the Bequiet coolers use purewings2 and there is one that has 140/120 mounting, never tried them though). There is a TY147ASQ, with 140 standard frame, but nansgaminggear never has brought them to the US, personally i think thermarlight would be better having a distributor like PerformancePCs in the US.

Now tonally... i probably like slightly better the Silentwings3, but again not that they are magical, they also are noticeable to me above 800rpms, i try to keep them at 500-600rpms where i cant hear them at all, but depends on the load. But both fans are really good, at least imo, i try to use TY147A on coolers and Silentwings3 140 on case fans, all PWM. I also like Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B14-PS PWM but its a weird fan, behind filters and heatsinks has a weird droning sound that i don't like, but pushing there is no issues, i don't recommend it much for this, but i do use it.

On 120 case fans Silentwings3 is my first pick, but there are lots of good options on 120mm fans, like Scythe Glidestreams, Nexus 120mm basic, Scythe Gentle typhoons (now sold by nindec among other 3rd parties, still made my nindec), Noctua NF-S12A PWM (this is also really good imo) and some people are talking about the new EK Vadar 120 PWM that are good also (haven't tried the new, the old i didn't like).

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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:56 am 
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@Abula, thank you for the very kind reply.

FYI, Nan's has it available for sell, through the Amazon's market place:

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY- ... B01G2942BK


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:02 pm 
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lb_felipe wrote:
@Abula, thank you for the very kind reply.

FYI, Nan's has it available for sell, through the Amazon's market place:
https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY- ... B01G2942BK
Nice find lb_felipe, i got tired of checking last year and never were available, checking amazon description and seems nansgaming started selling them on January 8... tempting.... i have the R6 coming and had set my mind on Silenwings3 but i might change my mind, its cheaper.... $25 vs $18.

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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:21 pm
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Location: São Paulo, SP, Brasil
Abula wrote:
lb_felipe wrote:
@Abula, thank you for the very kind reply.

FYI, Nan's has it available for sell, through the Amazon's market place:
https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TY- ... B01G2942BK
Nice find lb_felipe, i got tired of checking last year and never were available, checking amazon description and seems nansgaming started selling them on January 8... tempting.... i have the R6 coming and had set my mind on Silenwings3 but i might change my mind, its cheaper.... $25 vs $18.


How do you compare the stock X2 GP-14 to TY-147A SQ? About noise and sound quality, is there much difference between them?


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 Post subject: Re: Noctua PWM fan low-frequency hum
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:49 pm 
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lb_felipe wrote:
How do you compare the stock X2 GP-14 to TY-147A SQ? About noise and sound quality, is there much difference between them?
Sorry Felipe, cant help you much here, i havent tested the X2 GP-14, in a couple of months ill, once the R6 arrives (coming by boat).

But i believe they are the same fans that come on R5, if so, then check SPCR Quiet ATX Gamer, R5 Version

Quote:
The stock R5 fan is at least as quiet as the Antec TrueQuiet 140, which is one of the quietest we've measured. So there's no benefit at all to swapping out the R5 fans. They are as quiet any 140mm fans we've heard.
I have tested the Antec True Quiet 140 in the past and was a very quiet fan also, the only downside that i see on it as with the Fractal is they are 3pin, and the TY147ASQ is PWM, so i guess depend on how are you going to plan your build, specially how you going to control the fans and the motherboard restrictions on their headers.

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