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 Post subject: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Hey all, I don't see much talk about this, so I'll start off with my thoughts, and see who bites...

I made the jump to Windows 8 rather early, and had a pretty pleasant experience. Most everything worked, and I was more or less problem free for quite some time. Outside of Mac HFS+ drivers for Windows and needing to upgrade to a newer version of Paragon partitioning software, I got off easy. Everything just worked, officially supported or otherwise. Avid EuCon devices, my audio hardware, all the software, and it was going well.

Then Windows 8.1 rolled out. My computer went from working, to trouble in a single update. Literally everything is going wrong (I don't mean everything, but everything super important to a functioning computer). So, my computer will no longer shut down properly. I get a blue screen every single time. It's quite non-descript too. For someone who works at a computer shop, you'd think I could narrow this down faster, but of course not. The big complicated problems always happen to the techs.

Here's a quick brief of everything I can piece together of what happens. In the event logs and using Blue Screen View, I get ntoskrnl.exe as the cause. The Action Center tells me that it's my graphics drivers. I've reverted, completely uninstalled, and regardless of what I do, I get the blue screen when I click log shutdown or restart. Without fail. I swapped graphics cards to an ATI FirePro instead of my GTX660 to see if it was maybe the nVidia drivers. Well, it blue screened before I even got a chance to install the ATI drivers, so clearly it isn't that. I've run windows update, etc and so forth to see if anything will roll around, and no, of course not.

Lucky me, I didn't run a full image before I upgraded, so of course I can't fall back on that (lesson learned there). I have updated software and drivers for nearly every device I have installed, and I can't source a cause for this outside of 8.1. That's a swift kick in the shins.

My software seems to all work. Adobe Master Collection, Avid Pro Tools 11, M-Audio drivers, Reaper, EuCon software, everything is fine. I can work and not have problems. It's when I go to shutdown that I have a problem. It must be something starting with the computer, because I can quickly go to the shutdown menu right after starting the machine and it will restart/shutdown fine. So it's software that is starting with the computer, but it's a delayed start. I don't know what it is because I never get a specific driver listed. The two errors are specifically "Driver_Left_Locked_Pages_In_Process" or the older error "Process_Has_Locked_Pages." I've don't plenty of Google-fu that has left me empty handed over what could be causing the issue.

I have an old backup I could image to if need be, however it would take a long time to get the whole setup back to where it is in terms of software installations and updates, so I'm struggling with it, hoping something turns for the better.

A good friend/client at my shop brought his computer in the same day, he made the same mistake of going to 8.1, and he lost all Bluetooth connectivity, and that will be quite the struggle to get back running correctly.


Has anyone else made the jump? What are your experiences with it?

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Bummer, dude. I haven't moved past Win7, yet. One thing about 8.1 that perplexes me:
- if you upgrade to 8 from Win7, it keeps all of your preferences/attributes/applications.
- if you upgrade to 8.1 from Win7, it doesn't.

wtf?

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Location: Germany
MS has blown more than just your PC. They removed 8.1 for RT from the app store because some machines were useless and would not boot after update. So presumably more errors inc.

€:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 85%29.aspx process_has_locked_pages

The link above implies your problem could be caused by older/beta/faulty drivers. Wait for a fix by MS, use Microsoft Update or renew every single driver yourself. Watch out, most companies have 8.1 drivers and replaced their former beta drivers.

Interesting to know would be which other hardware is build into your PC and has 3rd party drivers installed, i.e. older WLAN-stick drivers are known to cause problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:20 am 
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It seems Microsoft push for a faster release cycle have caused loads of problems for people :roll: they shouldn't have made so many changes to the OS after release candidate, instead poor old Jo public has become their beta testers.
More OT have you tried to isolate what driver is causing the problem by Using Driver Verifier to identify issues with Drivers, the guide is for 7 but its the same for 8/8.1

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:21 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:

- if you upgrade to 8.1 from Win7, it doesn't.

wtf?


oh jeez, what a clusterfuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:14 am 
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xan_user wrote:
oh jeez, what a fustercluck.


I fixed it for you! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:29 pm 
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I don't think chickens were involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:20 pm 
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I should hope no chickens were involved, that's just awkward for everyone.

A little more info for everyone...

The Verifier doesn't really give me any more info than I had before. As previously mentioned, the BSOD seems to be related to ntoskrnl.exe, however beyond that, I have no idea what the problem is. Every driver I can update has been updated. This includes iLok, ProFire 2626, motherboard drivers, etc. It seems to be something that starts with Windows, so I'll have to go in, and do a selective startup kind of thing where I disable services and re-enable slowly until I can narrow down what's causing the problem. This wont happen until Friday at the earliest due to my schedule.

My motherboard is the Asus Z9PA-D8. I have all of the drivers installed and up to date (from ASPEED VGA to USB3.0, everything is installed). The onboard VGA is disabled. I have an error in the device manager that the nVidia HD Audio driver cannot start, I have it disabled (not that I can even use it to begin with). At first I thought the card may be the problem, then I swapped in my FirePro V4800. Same problem. It's not the GTX660 Ti, or the nVidia drivers. It's not the ethernet drivers, nor is in the ASPEED VGA drivers. The BSOD is specifically when I Log Off, Shutdown or Restart. It does not happen any other time at all. I have no WLAN adapters, no bluetooth. My ProFire 2626 doesn't seem to have any problems even when "hotplugging" or turning the device off while it's in use. Temps are well within spec, and I'm 99.9% positive that heat is not an issue (it can happen with the machine idling).

If I turn the computer on, and immediately restart or shutdown after logging in (within seconds of logging in) I can successfully restart. Whatever is causing the problem has a delayed start. I have plenty of disabled startup applications to help keep things snappy, but nothing seems out of the ordinary. I keep myself glued to MS Update, but so far nothing. I have a number of hidden updates, but thats to prevent software like the Bing Bar from being installed.

Given how power hungry this machine is, I don't leave it on, but that BSOD on shutdown is just really bothering me. Up until this update, I really didn't have any problems whatsoever. Crazy but true, the whole thing just worked great. Still kicking myself over not making an image before updating....

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:48 am 
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Sorry to hear verifier didn't give you more info on what caused the BSOD, another option would be to look at the mini dump files with something like WhoCrashed or another debugger.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:57 am 
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You could try BlueScreenView http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/blue_screen_view.html and see if you can gather some more infos, might lead us to something.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/hardware/ff551063(v=vs.85).aspx is another way and yields better info, but usage is different.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:46 am 
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I have been using BlueScreenView so far.

I'll give WhoCrashed a shot when I eventually get home tonight, thanks for that suggestion, I forgot about that one.

I'm having more luck getting my clients machine sorted out than I am with my own machine. Funny how that's typically the case.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:38 am 
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Okay, I have sorted out the BSOD issue after about 2 hours last night, and the results are not as bad as I originally thought.

The offending software was actually Apple's Bonjour software, it's bundled with iTunes (not QuickTime) and puts a big dent in my workflow as well. Since I have a pair of Avid Artist Mix units, it turns out that the EuCon software relies on Bonjour in order to work. So I don't have a BSOD on logoff/shutdown/restart, however now my control surfaces can't connect to my machine.

Things left to test out (in no particular order):

-Installing an older version of Bonjour (extracted from an older version of iTunes). I don't actually remember having installed iTunes ever on this machine, so it likely was installed when I installed the EuCon software.

-Installing the newer version of the EuCon software (v3.0.0 to 3.0.1). Not sure if this will do anything, but it's worth a try. I can download the software while at work, and install tomorrow and see what happens.

Now that I see the issue is actually more related to Apple's software, I'm less annoyed at Microsoft about the update, but it still broke compatibility with a pretty important part of my workflow for both paid jobs and schoolwork. I can use my laptop and move the surfaces, but it defeats the purpose of having put the desk together. I'll be doing what I have to do in order to get my work done, but it sure is frustrating...(not that I need to tell any of you).

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Quote:
Definition of BONJOUR
: good day : good morning


Not so much for you :)

Glad to hear you resolved to the root cause.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:31 pm 
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In the ongoing saga of dealing with 8.1, I'm running into new surprises every day...

After the upgrade, Adobe Premiere Pro decided to stop working, giving me a strange error when trying to open a project. I'm doing a full reinstall of the Master Collection to prevent other issues (and also to install a couple programs I didn't have on before that I have ended up needing on occasion.

I have the updated version of EuCon ready to install, just waiting on CS6 to finish first.

Never have I had so much trouble after an upgrade. I don't mind being on the bleeding edge and running unsupported setups, but the upkeep on it is worse than it was originally.

Not quite the Bonjour, indeed.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:28 pm 
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If you are going to reinstall your system, consider a downgrade to Win7x64. If i'd rely on this PC to earn money, i never ever tried Win8 for the exact reasons you are experiencing in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Well, I understand where you're coming from about Windows 7 being reasonably reliable, but in reality, I didn't have a problem until that 8.1 update. When I first moved to Windows 7, I had tons of problems with my sound cards at the time which basically forced me to upgrade my interface to what I currently use.

Also, outside of the Bonjour incompatibility, and reinstalling the CS6 Master Collection, everything else is working. Other CS6 programs worked fine, only Premiere was giving me trouble, but I figured I would just make sure I avoided problems by reinstalling everything. Beyond that, this system has been incredibly reliable. Until the 8.1 upgrade, I never had a blue screen. I use this machine to earn money, but also to be my test mule. Working in a computer shop, I have to be up to speed on the "latest and greatest" and that involves the problems. I don't enjoy using my main machine as a guinea pig, but it forces me to keep good practice in troubleshooting for when I inevitably have a customer machine roll in with similar problems.

I have this conversation with my boss often about time spent on my personal projects and how if I were to factor in the labor, my own projects would cost a massive amount of money. While this is true, being able to take my time and explore every possible avenue of troubleshooting on a more or less infinite time frame is beneficial to my customers (and my boss) because it lets me get more familiar with a serious issue that I've seen before. It's taken me 8 months to fix a laptop before. Now, when I see the same issue, I know exactly what part causes the problem, and the fix can be done in 5 minutes. You can also partially blame it all on my being German. Strong willed and stubborn about figuring it out. Trash my install, preferences, settings, and everything else that's been accumulated over the past 10 months over an update? I don't think so.

8.1 was the root cause of me having trouble, not Windows 8. Windows 8 worked very very well. There were people who complained about change. Microsoft didn't want to change it, then they got pushed into a corner, and didn't take their time with it. What else is new?

I'm just waiting on Apple to figure out an update for Bonjour now, so I can start to use my control surfaces again with this machine. It's not the end of the world to pick one up and move it to my recording desk so I can use it with my laptop, but my recording desk is considerably smaller, and has more wires running around than my mixing/editing desk. They're separated for a reason. I can still work around it, so it's not the end of the world. If it was a serious problem, I would sooner update Pro Tools on my old desktop to mix with (still under the desk as well, just not plugged in), rather than downgrading this machine. That way, once it's fixed, I just move the projects back.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Thanks for your explanation. I totally agree that you have to keep being informed and up to the latest snuff businesswise. I'm glad to hear you can get around the BSODs. But i guess Adobe didn't test 8.1 and probably a lot of other big Software companies havn't evaluated 8.1 too.

Since you are not complaining, you are totally aware of the main cause. Getting stuff working even if unsupported teaches you the most, imho.

But if it was one of your customers, i guess you would advice to go the save path and stick to a now proven OS W7SP1.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:36 am 
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Yes, for my customers, I explicitly tell them that Windows 8 is not prepared for a work environment at this time. Exceptions go only to businesses that need Microsoft Office/basic internet usage. Any operating system can sufficiently do that (and for many businesses, going for the latest version of Office helps prevent them from having to upgrade the following year from an older version).

As tempted as I am to jump over to OS X Mavericks on my laptop, there are a lot of well known compatibility problems that will prevent many things from working. In that respect, that update will have to wait, but it's not really any different. It's no fun to tell a customer you haven't even tried an OS yet, as they bring in a machine with a problem.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:45 pm 
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FWIW I upgraded the HTPC described here (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66248) to 8.1 yesterday. The process war relatively fast and almost painless and everything seems to work.

Of course, I don't run much on it besides Foobar2000 and a browser.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 am 
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Location: Youngstown, OH
I am very close to building a new PC. I haven't decided if I should go with windows 8.1 and windows 7. This is kind of scaring me from going windows 8.1 even though all my parts will be the latest generation even if all the hardware is new I have no idea what software will break the system. I'll probably go with 7 only because (and I know this isn't exactly right) I got Win 7 x64 enterprise edition and extracted my schools volume serial number from one of their pc's so it's essentially a fully working fully licensed copy for free vs paying money for 8.1. But I still might end up buying 8.1 anyways down the line so I'm not totally evil :twisted: ;). Isn't there like an 11.2 directx that is only supported under windows 8?


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:59 am 
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I spent $69 on the Windows 8 Pro upgrade right when it came out. I also upgraded my girlfriends laptop for $14.99. I added the Media Center Upgrade for free during the promotional period back in January. Comparatively, I spent a lot less on my Win 8 software than others, and because of that, I'm not totally kosher with blasting my installs away and reinstalling from scratch. It does generally work.

Since most people who are pushing through with Windows 8 are general users, it's unlikely that you'll have the same problems I will. Because I don't game or anything like that, I can't say I've paid any attention to the DirectX version, it really doesn't apply to anything I do on the machine.

The most important thing to remember is that even Windows 7 could have a software fiasco. If something gets corrupt, any operating system will give you trouble. Just be aware of what you install, what you update, and what changes you make. Also, most importantly, make a backup often. Problem solved.

Be wary of extracting volume keys from educational institutions though. It sounds like it works all the time, but you may find that it doesn't activate once you try and use it. I wont get into the details why, but just a light warning.

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:42 pm 
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In other news, it seems that recent Windows Updates have brought stability to the world. The two updates that occurred are:

Update for Windows 8.1 for x64-based Systems (KB2901549) - Improves reliability of IE11 on Windows 8.1 Systems
Update for Windows 8.1 for x64-based Systems (KB2902892) - Resolves Skype crashes with Intel 3000 graphics (not related to my problem)

Now, I don't use IE11 at all, I use Chrome exclusively, however it may be that some update affected the networking components, and has fixed my issue entirely. After fully reinstalling the latest EuCon software/drivers, my desk is fully functional again, which is good news.

Now my next task is to make a full image of the Operating System on a spare drive, so I can avoid these problems in the future. A little patience and good troubleshooting meant that I didn't have to blast my install back to Windows 8 and waste a few days getting everything re-configured. How about that. My faith in this operating system has been marginally restored (until the next problem occurs that is).

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FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:23 pm 
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bonestonne wrote:
I spent $69 on the Windows 8 Pro upgrade right when it came out. I also upgraded my girlfriends laptop for $14.99. I added the Media Center Upgrade for free during the promotional period back in January. Comparatively, I spent a lot less on my Win 8 software than others, and because of that, I'm not totally kosher with blasting my installs away and reinstalling from scratch. It does generally work.

Since most people who are pushing through with Windows 8 are general users, it's unlikely that you'll have the same problems I will. Because I don't game or anything like that, I can't say I've paid any attention to the DirectX version, it really doesn't apply to anything I do on the machine.

The most important thing to remember is that even Windows 7 could have a software fiasco. If something gets corrupt, any operating system will give you trouble. Just be aware of what you install, what you update, and what changes you make. Also, most importantly, make a backup often. Problem solved.

Be wary of extracting volume keys from educational institutions though. It sounds like it works all the time, but you may find that it doesn't activate once you try and use it. I wont get into the details why, but just a light warning.



It worked already. I used win 7 x64 enterprise fixing my grandmothers pc reformatting and installing fresh and used the key from the school i was attending. The PC I'm currently using is just a crappy dell with a legit windows 7 license. It's normally my torrent box but since I sold my last build already I'm stuck using this for now. It's hard to want to upgrade to windows 8.1 for 100 dollars when you have windows 7 enterprise sitting on your desk for free. I will wait and see what the true benefits of direct x 11.2 are. If any games even use them. Barely any even use direct x 11.0 properly. If microsoft can give me a compelling reason why I should spend 100 dollars I will. The way I look at it it is their fault for putting out a piece of crap product and i refuse to reward a company with money when they do a bad job. So MS give me a reason to spend 100 and I'll do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:30 am 
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laststop wrote:
I will wait and see what the true benefits of direct x 11.2 are. If any games even use them. Barely any even use direct x 11.0 properly. If microsoft can give me a compelling reason why I should spend 100 dollars I will. The way I look at it it is their fault for putting out a piece of crap product and i refuse to reward a company with money when they do a bad job. So MS give me a reason to spend 100 and I'll do it.
I hope with the backing of Valve we will finally see good OpenGL support and Linux drivers to get away from this whole Microsoft monopoly on PC gaming. Maybe people will warm to AMD's Mantle, considering their hardware will be in the next playstation and xbox.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:56 am 
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Year after year people say direct x needs to die use open gl. And year after year it never happens. Don't hold your breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:36 am 
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Quote:
So MS give me a reason to spend 100 and I'll do it.

exactly.

(Im seriously thinking its time to build a hackintosh...)

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:21 am 
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Posts: 50
I'm running 8.1 Enterprise, and have been for well over a month. It was a fresh install (I have a Technet subscription, so I got 8.1 before the unwashed masses). It's been smooth sailing.

I also upgraded my 2 month old rMBP to 10.9 Mavericks, and it's been a terrible experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:13 am 
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HellDiverUK wrote:
I'm running 8.1 Enterprise, and have been for well over a month. It was a fresh install (I have a Technet subscription, so I got 8.1 before the unwashed masses). It's been smooth sailing.

I also upgraded my 2 month old rMBP to 10.9 Mavericks, and it's been a terrible experience.


Well, one good game doesn't make you MVP.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:26 am 
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I'm holding off on the Mavericks update until Pro Tools is certified. I've seen too many problems with that, and I need Pro Tools to work on my laptop for school. The difference is that I don't take my desktop to school and use it for start/work on projects during breaks. Right now I'm running 10.8.5 with no problems with several interfaces and PT11, what I need mostly.

I could have gone the way of Technet, but I skipped it. I would have liked to see it on a shop computer, but just didn't have the time for it. I don't even really have a spare Mac to throw Mavericks on for testing either, that's a real bummer this time around.

Overall though, I'm happy with the system and how it works. There are a couple things I need to tweak, but nothing to do with software at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8.1 Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:47 am 
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Posts: 165
Location: London
bonestonne wrote:
I'm holding off on the Mavericks update until Pro Tools is certified.

I don't blame you as there are already lots of problems with Mavericks and one being with WD external drives.
http://community.wd.com/t5/News-Announcements/External-Drives-for-Mac-Experiencing-Data-Loss-with-Maverick-OS/td-p/613777
Quote:
There are reports of Western Digital and other external HDD products experiencing data loss when updating to Apple's OS X Mavericks (10.9). Western Digital is urgently investigating these reports and the possible connection to the WD Drive Manager, WD Raid Manager and WD SmartWare software applications.

These faster release cycles for Microsoft and Apple are all well and good, but when Jo public are being used as beta testers and their business may depend on having a reliable OS its not on IMHO. From now on i will be doing the same as i do with games, wait a few years for most of the problems to be fixed before buying it.

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