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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:39 pm 
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I'm almost surprized it's not quieter... It's only 1200 RPM or so, apparently, but then there are two running, I noticed that it was more bearable if I manually stopped either one of them. A failed card? I will ask on another forum to check, some people there got EVGA 750 Ti too.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Any software tools that work with the card yet? I think it might be a month or so until these are out but then you can try tweaking fan profiles.

An Acelero S1 Plus is not so expensive though so would definitely suggest that route if you want to properly fix things.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:51 pm 
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MSI Afterburner and EVGA Precision X are working fine with it, but I'm not sure it's what you're referring to.

I plan to remove the fans to attach one simple low RPM Scythe on it, it should be enough. The card seems to run really cool, I was still around 25° after 15-20 mns on COD Ghost. The MSI one can even manage to turn its fans off (I chose EVGA for the warranty, but I could have gone for MSI too).


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:20 pm 
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What's interesting to me is how much more power efficient the refrence card is compared to the same cards manufactured by other vendors such as Asus, Palit, and MSI. The reference card idles at 4 watts, the other cards idle at anywhere from 6-10 watts. Under load they also draw more power. Is it possible to get buy a reference 750 TI card? All I can find are cards manufactured by MSI, Asus, and Gigabyte.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_750_Ti_OC/23.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_750_Ti_Gaming/23.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Palit/GTX_750_Ti_StormX_Dual/


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:25 am 
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The reference card is just that, a reference design (usually doesn't end up on sale as such). The increased consumption comes more or less directly from the retail manufacturers' desire to increase performance, if just by a bit, compared to the reference card and, more importantly, compared to their competitors' cards. And that is what people seem to want to buy, too - as a long-time PC builder I have definitely seen a shift where OC is the new Basic/Standard (after that you have varying degrees of eXtreme OverClocking and monstrous VRAM).

When we're talking power figures this low, it's not hard to see how quickly the % changes can come about. 4-10 W differences start to seem like a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:22 am 
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Well, I might not do a video after all. The PC makes a rattling sound I don't even hear myself, and the fans blowing out air seems to make less noise than they really do. It wouldn't be a really accurate proof :D

Now I think the EVGA card is just fine and probably not much louder than other cards. I just removed the card, disconnected case fans and ran the Scythe Mugen 4 fan alone at 1200 RPM. It's running quieter than the EVGA card, but not by much (it's also just one - good - 12 mm fan). I suppose it's just me discovering how much difference there is between 570 (current cooler fan speed I can't hear) and 1200 RPM.

I suppose these "very quiet" cards are only quiet in comparaison to monster cards making a lot more noise, because I don't find them "quiet" by any means, and I don't even have bionic ears since I can't hear 570 RPM :mrgreen:

By the way, the card is handling idle computing just fine without its fans, no more than 35° with a 1080p video running, three case fans at 5V.
Also tried Furmark: case closed and its three fans at 12V. It quickly ramped up to 80°, that's when the card reached the default "Temp target" of EVGA Precision X and lowered the GPU Clock to 1188 Mhz, then it didn't move for 30 minutes. It remained at 85°C from 18 to 33 minutes, then I stopped the test.
I will still stick a low RPM fan on it next week.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:20 am 
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The usual recording equipment, e.g. phones and budget cameras, just isn't sensitive or clear enough to really bring out the differences. Anyone who has investigated fan RPMs and sound should know what you're talking about though.

It's definitely noisy if it rises above a decent 120 mm fan going 1200 RPM. Anything over 1000 RPM is just unnecessary! :roll:

Cards in general have ridiculously "fail-safe" fan profiles because the manufacturers don't trust their design or the end user to know what to do with it (or more than likely: they are too lazy/cheap to tune it). Some mainstream/enthusiast cards get reasonably close to quiet (Twin Frozr/DC2/WindForce), but there is so much wasted potential there because the fan drive is locked at something stupid.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:02 am 
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Thanks. That explains it for the video, good to know, I was wondering why :D

I agree for the failsafe. I can run this card passively until I receive my Scythe without worrying of it burning out, even when gaming. This 42 % threshold seems unnecessary for this model.

MSI got out a nice card, the most silent one that also can turns its fans off while idling. They seem to have taken the low consumption into account.

If I had to redo it, I might chose MSI. The only downside is that it's not Gsync compatible. I'll sell the EVGA at a later point so it's good to have. Other than that, MSI is a bit cheaper here and also has a good warranty.

By the way, the EVGA goes down to a GPU Clock of 135 Mhz in idle. Not a graphic card expert, but I suppose it's bound to be cooler this way.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Quote:
By the way, the EVGA goes down to a GPU Clock of 135 Mhz in idle. Not a graphic card expert, but I suppose it's bound to be cooler this way.

I think all of the 750 Ti's do. Maxwell has a new low power state for idle and low effort 2D operations (like video).

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:29 pm 
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Ok, so I could not resist buying on of these cards since it sets the new bar for power efficiency.

I got the Gigabyte GTX 750 TI (GV-N75TOC-2GI) because it had the connectors I wanted and heatsink with heatpipe.
I installed latest nvidia drivers (334.89) and the OC Guru II.

Here are my observations:
- The card will not boot without the PCIe power cable plugged in.
- Idle power at windows desktop is reported at <2% of TDP!
- The minimum fan speed setting is 56% which equals 1650RPM. This is far too loud for silentpcreview enthusiast. Not a high pitch or rattle, just a lot of whoosh.
- The 100% speed is 3000RPM...
- Temperatures are 28deg idle and settles at 53deg after running FurMark for a while both at minimum fan setting.
- When running passive, that is disconnecting the fan cable but without removing the fans, the idle temperature is 41deg.
- Temperature throttling works well, setting max temp to 80deg results in a stable frequency of 300MHz(!) after a few minutes with FurMark when running passively.

So my early conclusion is that the 750TI seems to be a nice chip, and that silentpcreview readers should not buy this Gigabyte card. At least not until they come out with a BIOS that fixes the ridiculously high minimum fan speed. They need to hurry though otherwise I will return it.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Thanks for the mini-review :)

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:20 am 
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Hi,

ojg wrote:
I got the Gigabyte GTX 750 TI (GV-N75TOC-2GI) because it had the connectors I wanted and heatsink with heatpipe.

Have you meant PCIe connector or different fan connector?
If it's voltage controlled it should be possible to connect 800rpm 120mm slip stream replacing original fans...
Indeed gigabyte card is very loud, but MSI one seems nice look:
http://pclab.pl/art56521-37.html


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:24 pm 
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There is hope for someone looking for fanless, there is a thread going on Guru3d, 750/ti overclocking club small package big clocks, it seems he mounted a Accelero S1, and has remarks like

Quote:
Played some bf4 without any fans on the card never seen 60c in 1 hour of overclocked gameplay

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:12 am 
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Eneen wrote:
Hi,

ojg wrote:
I got the Gigabyte GTX 750 TI (GV-N75TOC-2GI) because it had the connectors I wanted and heatsink with heatpipe.

Have you meant PCIe connector or different fan connector?

I read it as "video outputs", since the GB card has 2xDVI and 2xHDMI. MSI for example only has 1/1/1. The PCI-E power connector on the GB is about as obsolete as the VGA/D-sub was. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:34 am 
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Kyno wrote:
Can't get the fans below 42% in EVGA Precision X, unfortunately, so I'll be replacing the fans by a low rpm one.

Seems other owners have found the same and are pressuring EVGA about it. There is a BIOS update at ftp://ftp.evga.com/bios/3757_Update.zip which EVGA says "...reduces the fan noise while the system is idle. Please note that the minimum is still 42% (even though the fanspeed is reduced)..." that might be worth trying.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:56 am 
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[Tom's Hardware] Passively Cooling Nvidia's GeForce GTX 750 Ti... With An AMD Sink

Not bad, and the automatic thermal throttling on Nvidia cards is kinda handy to keep temps at a safe level. :)


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:00 am 
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Abula wrote:
There is hope for someone looking for fanless, there is a thread going on Guru3d, 750/ti overclocking club small package big clocks, it seems he mounted a Accelero S1, and has remarks like

Quote:
Played some bf4 without any fans on the card never seen 60c in 1 hour of overclocked gameplay

Looking at one of the pics he does have a fan attached to it:
http://s27.postimg.org/jrr1rr79v/Deskto ... 24_163.jpg

Not sure I can trust his testing plus his grammar doesn't exactly help convince me. :roll: No doubt it can be cooled passively by something smaller than an S1 for that matter as the S1 will work passively on a card with twice the TDP, afterall some manufacturers supplied it on a 126W 8800GT. Even a single slot passive cooler might be possible with the right design. There were single slot passive Gigabyte 6600GT's running around 50W without heatpipes.

That reused Saphire passive cooler performs surpirsingly badly as well. 80C is hot.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:04 am 
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edh wrote:
That reused Saphire passive cooler performs surpirsingly badly as well. 80C is hot.

At least it was properly fanless. :)

I think his poor temps may have been because of the orientation of the card -- vertical instead of horizontal. Nonetheless, 80 degrees with minimal clock speed throttling is still pretty nice, and imagine the improvement from a nice 92/120mm fan running at 500RPM on that heatsink. :D


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:08 am 
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Chances for passive are looking better and better, thanks for the reading material. Just need a better heatsink than that.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:50 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Eneen wrote:
Hi,

ojg wrote:
I got the Gigabyte GTX 750 TI (GV-N75TOC-2GI) because it had the connectors I wanted and heatsink with heatpipe.

Have you meant PCIe connector or different fan connector?

I read it as "video outputs", since the GB card has 2xDVI and 2xHDMI. MSI for example only has 1/1/1. The PCI-E power connector on the GB is about as obsolete as the VGA/D-sub was. :lol:

You are correct.

I have now bought the MSI card as well, despite the obsolete VGA-dsub, because the fancontrol on the Gigabyte was so disappointing. Look for a new mini-review to appear here later today or tomorrow. :)


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:53 am 
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ojg wrote:
Look for a new mini-review to appear here later today or tomorrow. :)

Woo! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Alright, so this is my first impressions of the MSI 750Ti Gaming (N750Ti-TF-2GD5/OC)

- First thing I saw when unpacking is that this card is much larger than the Gigabyte, infact 6cm longer. That includes both the heatsink and PCB. The chip itself is placed further away from the bracket, something to consider if you want to use an aftermarket cooler I suppose.
- The fans are larger too, the Gigabyte fans are only 80mm, the MSI fans are 92mm.
- The minimum (and default) fan speed setting is 32% which equals 900RPM, yay! The fans are very quiet at this speed, I would say subjectively the noise is less than my single Nexus 120mm CPU fan at the same speed.
- The maximum fan speed at 100% is 2800RPM.
- It idles at 26deg and after running Furmark for 15 min the fan speed was only increased to 1000RPM (yay again!) with a temperature of 57deg. This card will clearly always run the fans at their slowest speed for all practical purposes.
- The only minor disappointment: The card never shuts its fans off completely like Guru3D claimed. Not even when the monitor is off. I do wish that MSI will release a BIOS that allows a 0% minimum fan setting, that would make it the ultimate silentpcreview graphics card.

The Gigabyte card is going back to the store, this MSI card is a keeper! With this card I don't feel the need for instantly modifying it with different fans or coolers.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Thanks for the mini!

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:41 am 
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ojg wrote:
- The only minor disappointment: The card never shuts its fans off completely like Guru3D claimed. Not even when the monitor is off. I do wish that MSI will release a BIOS that allows a 0% minimum fan setting, that would make it the ultimate silentpcreview graphics card.

Did you try the Silent Mode?
Image

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:31 am 
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ojg wrote:
The only minor disappointment: The card never shuts its fans off completely like Guru3D claimed. Not even when the monitor is off. I do wish that MSI will release a BIOS that allows a 0% minimum fan setting, that would make it the ultimate silentpcreview graphics card.

Nibitor will probably support the 750 soon. Once that happens it won't be hard to edit the BIOS and fix it yourself. BIOS editing is not too hard and in some cases it's all that separates the different AIB cards is a different BIOS.

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:06 am 
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In terms of supporting the latest NVIDIA cards NiBiTor never got much further than the GTX 560. So modifying the BIOS for NVidia 6xx cards has meant using something else, such as Kepler Bios Tweaker. I have downloaded the BIOS for a couple of 750Ti cards, the EVGA 02G-P4-3751-KR and the MSI N750Ti-2GD5/OC (the Gaming model) from the TechPowerUp VGA BIOS collection and tried them with the Kepler BIOS Tweaker. The good news is that the BIOS does seem to be editable. The bad news is that in both instances the settings under the Fan Control Range section are greyed out, so that adjusting fan speeds using a BIOS edit seems to be completely out with the 750Ti. I tried a third BIOS, the one for the Palit StormX Dual with the same result, no control over fan speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:14 am 
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fyi.

GTX 750 Ti Video card reviews
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=67173

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:21 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
fyi.

GTX 650 Ti Video card reviews
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=67173
swap the title to 750 =)

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:08 pm 
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eep

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 Post subject: Re: GTX 750Ti sips power
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Did you try the Silent Mode?

Yes, it didn't make any difference. I think Guru3D have been in a bit of a hurry to get the reviews out and some copy/paste errors have got in there somehow. I've emailed Guru3D editor about it, let's hope he answers.

Thanks lodestar for trying out Kepler bios tweaker. Hopefully there will be an update that includes full Maxwell support as well. Maybe we have to wait until more hardcore gaming Maxwell cards are on the market.

Another MSI review with some good pictures of the heatsink and fans: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews ... ming/2.htm


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