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 Post subject: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:36 am 
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Hi,

Does anyone know where to find the material Fractal Design uses for noise dampening in their latest cases? It looks like a 2mm sheet of bitumen with some fabric on top. I've found some bitumen sheets, but not ones that have the fabric applied.

Thanks for any help!


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:28 am 
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What are you looking to do? Resolve vibration/resonance issues by increasing weight of case panels? If so, the cheapest solution is to buy the heaviest adhesive backed vinyl floor tiles you can find and then cut to fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:31 pm 
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[that is just soooo attractive. lol.

I would work. Mass/weight is key to stopping sound. I always advocated for sheets of lead but people thought I was nuts because it is metal and they think it could resonate etc (which it cannot).

I direct people to this website if they want some serious junk to block sound and stop vibrations.

http://www.soundproofing.org/


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:59 pm 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
[that is just soooo attractive. lol.

Hey - you can always choose a nice design...and it's on the inside of a case...

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, Asrock Z97 Anniversary, MSI GTX 1050 Ti Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic SSR-550FX. 35W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:37 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:
[that is just soooo attractive. lol.

Hey - you can always choose a nice design...and it's on the inside of a case...


haha true :)

I am like the interior decorator type. I like to have lasers or cold cathode tubes, nicely coiled or wrapped coordinating wires etc.

your cases are like bachelor pads from the 70's!


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Well, if you can find those bitumen backed sheets, I want them too.
I have a few Fractal cases and due to cost reduction, they are all missing sound proofing in areas I would consider important, so I'd like to remedy that short coming.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:14 am 
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http://www.soundproofing.org

call them on the phone. buy a yard of it. weighs heavy, stops sound dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:13 pm 
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No, you don't get it.
I want the OEM material, not just any bitumen sheets.
If any would do, I can get automotive stuff, which for the price should be way better, as it's very expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:55 pm 
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that's a particularly picky small desire. wouldnt anything do?


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:05 pm 
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If anything would do, there are plenty of widely available alternatives, from dedicated sound proofing for computer cases, to ... some DIY parts, auto sound proofing, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:08 pm 
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Back in the day Fractal used to do a Universal Noise Absorber Kit which consisted of soundproofing materials of various thicknesses including 2.5mm which would suggest that it was bitumen. Nearest thing currently available (at least here in the UK) seems to be the Be Quiet! Noise Absorber Kits in Midi and Big Tower size. Actual contents of the Mid Tower Kit for example are:

Insulating boards (bitumous felt), (pcs): 4
Special foam (pcs): 1
Dimensions: 400mm x 200mm (15.75 inches X 7.87 inches)
Material: Special foam / Fleece Coating
Thickness of the material (mm): 2.2 / 8 / 20

Price is around £14 to £15.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Just so people understand -- the function of the bitumen sheet lining is to reduce the tendency of the case panels to vibrate. It is panel damping. It does nothing for the airborne noise. So if you float mount HDDs and soft mount fans and generally use quiet components, there's really no audible difference between a case w/ and w/o this lining.

Lead surely would work well, but so would virtually any reasonably thick & heavy metal glued to the panels. The glue & the mass do the trick. And it's definitely not necessary to cover the whole panel -- I've experimented, and with adequate mass & a good glue, just 50% coverage is enough. Small sections don't need it at all (say any panel smaller than about 6" x 6", assuming it's not super flimsy thin) unless they're not secured, in which case they will flap around with vibration. Best to secure it rather than damp it.

PS -- the reason a small panel doesn't need damping is because it is much stiffer than a bigger one & unlikely to vibrate sympathetically at the frequencies where this becomes an issue -- ie, well below 1000Hz. It's resonances will be at higher frequencies, and it'll be harder for those resonances to be excited externally. And the reason such limited coverage still stops the vibration on a larger panel is because that's all the stuff is supposed to do -- stop vibration, not become soundproof. You can test this easily with any case side panel: With it off & the edges unsupported, hit it with something like a rubber mallet. Consider the vibration/noise. Now place the panel on your palm. Hit it anywhere. You'll hear a big reduction in noise/vibration. Of course, your palm is probably a way better dampener than the thin bitumen pads Fractal uses... tho I doubt you want to sit there with your palm on the side of the case whenever you're at your PC. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Well, the reason I want those sheets in OEM flavor is not for sound proofing, but more for their aesthetic properties ;)
The sound proofing part is taken care of by other means, namely this type of foam : http://www.soundproofcow.com/wp-content ... _1_400.jpg
The desk will be lined with it, as well as some parts of the case.

PS. The Be Quiet! stuff lodestar mentions are, from pictures, VERY close to the stuff used by Fractal, so I might give it a go. Thank you lodestar.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:44 pm 
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That eggshell foam you linked will do virtually nothing at all. It's way too thin & too light (not dense) to have any effect below say... 1-2 kHz. And even above, I'd be surprised if maximum SPL reduction was more than a couple dB. It could have a mild reduction in higher frequency echoes if lined everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:09 pm 
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There are HD (High Density) versions of it, polyurethane with bitumen I guess, but not really sure.
Yes, it's thin, 20mm actually, because any thicker would have interfered with the components inside the case.
I used some on a Fractal case to cover up all the slits and cutouts that were quite unnecessary to me, it worked for the purpose, making all the noise virtually silent with the case closed, even in very close proximity to the case, my ear 1cm from the case. Granted, the PC was very silent to begin with, only a slight coil noise from ... video card I guess and the slight grind noise of the WD Green 2TB HDD (using 2 1TB platters) were heard previously, under the same conditions, my ear close to the case (well, to be perfectly honest, in seek, the HDD was not so quite, I could hear it from 1m away or even more, now it's definitely quieter, yet still can be heard in seek, but barely noticeable now from my seat at the desk).


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Well, if it worked for you, great!

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Well, no open holes in the case, being covered by any material, is better than just open, I guess.
The hardcore version would be to use 3mm plastic sheets cut to specs and covered by the HD eggshell foam, to simply cover all the parts where there is no fan or some other component, but ... too much work for very little result, as nowadays it's quite easy to build a computer that is quite from the get go.

Still, I will try to get that Be Quiet! dampening material to cover the plastic front panel of the Define S case, just like the Define Nano S has, simply because it looks better :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:40 pm 
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be quiet! stuff always looked cool to me

And, that is interesting MikeC about your experience with stuff like lead. I have considered it and I think I will give it a go in my new case. I know the led sheets they sell from that link. I guess just glue them. Nice to know it doesnt havent to be near 100% coverage at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:18 am 
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Alexandrus wrote:
Well, if you can find those bitumen backed sheets, I want them too.
I have a few Fractal cases and due to cost reduction, they are all missing sound proofing in areas I would consider important, so I'd like to remedy that short coming.


Excuse my absence, but I see the discussion ramped up here a bit. I didn't find exactly what I was looking for, but I went with the Be Quiet! kit. Didn't do wonders, but helped a little. Also wanted it because of consistent aesthetics. Put it in my Define S front which didn't have any.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:38 pm 
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good to see the the sound absorption myth/placebo in PC's is still thriving.








cant wait for the upside-down HDD's revolution to make a comeback.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:45 pm 
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Also good to see some people still have opinions about stuff they have never tried.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Alexandrus wrote:
Also good to see some people still have opinions about stuff they have never tried.

if by never, you mean in the last 10+ years, then yeah you got me pegged.

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 Post subject: Re: Bitumen sheets, Fractal Design
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:50 pm 
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So, you say you have been using the Be Quiet! stuff for the past 10 years ? Or that you have tried the exact combination described above and have more than the rest of us to show for it and prove your point, such as actual measurements ?
You can show/prove me/us to be wrong or do you simply imply that your OPINIONS have more value than our own (or are the actual truth), by default ?

PS. I've been doing it since ~ the year 2000, does that make me more or less correct in my statements ?


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