Mobile Barton 2500 - owners and wannabe owners...

aston · Post by **aston** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:47 am

marc999 wrote:So I decided, even though my old chip passed Memtest at 2-2-2-5 200Mhz FSB, maybe this chip can't (you wouldn't think it would not be CPU dependent, only RAM and chipset).

That's what I always thought, too. But then I recall seeing a post here about MemTest v3.0's test 5, which apparently tests the CPU's L2 cache... maybe that has something to do with it.

aston · Post by **aston** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:52 am

wowy wrote:I got my XP-M 2400+ a few days ago, and my new heatsink just arrived today. So far I've gotten it to run at 2.5 GHz @ 1.9V without any problems (really about 1.87V, as my Abit NF7-S undervolts as stated previously on this forum). 2.6 GHz at 2.03 seemed ok, but I was a little worried with that high a voltage. Maybe after a few days at 2.5 I'll try again. With temps topping out at 50c after hours at full load, I'm really not that concerned at the moment.

What's your cooling setup? I have a Zalman 7000A-AlCu. I just bumped my Barton up to 2.5GHz and it's holding stable @ 1.9v, but the temps are 57C load with the Zalman @ 12v and the case open.

Also, what's the stepping of your chip?

PhilgB · Post by **PhilgB** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:38 pm

Well it will be overclocked but im not pushing its limits at all. I would be happy with the same speed as a regular barton. (11X166)

Edit: Actually wowy seems to be doing fine with his 2400. Thats probably what Ill get and run it at 10X200.

It is the Barton core. Listed on newegg.

Could someone do me a HUGE favor? I need 1 to 5 of these but NewEgg does not ship to Canada and they seem to be unbelievably rare around here. I would pay the shipper a few extra bucks (or donate to SPCR) for the (greatly appreciated) help. Please PM me if you can help me. Thanks.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:45 pm

Ive just placed an order for a Barton-M 2500+

Coming originally from the overclockers forum yeah i totally agree on the fact that they believe temps above 50 deg c are unacceptable. As a result im never happy unless my chips under 49 deg c full load! I usually run around 44 deg c full load with my silent watercooling setup heavily overclocked.

I cant wait till i get my chip (should be tomorrow) im probably going to only overclock it to around 2.2ghz (equiv of barton 3200+) and settle for good temperatures and a nice quiet setup.

If you guys are getting bad oc results, try burning your processor in, its arguable that it makes a difference, its kinda mythical, some people report great results after burning in, while others report that it dosent make any difference. Basically put your chip on the lowest mult or a low one so the clock speed is about 600mhzish and put the vcore to max - right upto 2v is possible and run a 100% cpu load program like folding or prime for a day or so. Then try overclocking the chip again.

Some people on overclockers have reported very good results after burning in.

Magic · Post by **Magic** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:06 pm

What's the preferred motherboard for excellent but quiet overclocking of this chip?

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:20 pm

Magic wrote:What's the preferred motherboard for excellent but quiet overclocking of this chip?

My personal choice is the Asus A7N8X Deluxe V2. This is because its northbridge is fanless. It comes with a huge list of extra features as well like built in firewire, nforce 2 chipset sound, usb 2, dual lan etc..... Its also one of the current leaders of ocing mobos and was voted mobo of the year at toms hardware. Its contender is the Abit NF-7 which is a little better for overclocking but dosent come with as many extra features like firewire etc... and also it has a noisy fan on the northbridge (which can be changed if you want)

kie · Post by **kie** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:23 am

Magic wrote:What's the preferred motherboard for excellent but quiet overclocking of this chip?

The motherboard will determine your overclocking options - Abit NF-7S (rev2) is an excellent choice. I've heard that the asus board mentioned above isn't the best for overclocking due to FSB limitations. But any motherboard capapble of using a barton chip that has a good bios will be suitable, e.g. DFI lanparty's are also good.

Quietness will be more dependant on the heatsink/fan combo you use rather than the motherboard, and of course any other fans you have. The northbrdge fan on the NF-7 can simply be unplugged if it's noise bothers you (this is what I do).

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:39 pm

Seal wrote,

I cant wait till i get my chip (should be tomorrow) im probably going to only overclock it to around 2.2ghz (equiv of barton 3200+) and settle for good temperatures and a nice quiet setup.

Well, I guess that's up to you but that's kinda like getting a Ferrari to drive in a school zone IMHO. I mean, you've got water and a chip capable of so much more. With watercooling I bet you could get at least 2400 Mhz without even breaking 50C and staying quiet / silent.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:57 am

marc999 wrote:Well, I guess that's up to you but that's kinda like getting a Ferrari to drive in a school zone IMHO. I mean, you've got water and a chip capable of so much more. With watercooling I bet you could get at least 2400 Mhz without even breaking 50C and staying quiet / silent.

Well i guess you'll be pleased to hear that im currently at 2.3GHz running at 46 Deg C full load (prime95 on hottest test). My vcore is set to 1.7v. And my watercooling is setup for quiet mode. (120mm radiator fan on 5v) Hmmmm i suppose i could easily go for 2.4ghz but being a hardcore user constantly pushing my comp to the max running folding and having my computer on 24/7 all the time im uneasy with my processor getting to 49 deg c and higher, although i do know its safe to go upto around 55 deg c full load.

I think pushing the chip to 2.4ghz is a little excessive although doable.. it'd be like taking my Ferrari to do the shopping run. Not the most efficient. At 2.2ghz im already outperforming a £140 chip from a chip i paid £70 for. Ill see what i feel like next time i go into bios

kie · Post by **kie** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:14 am

I have say that I'm a little surprised at you chip's temperatures as they seem to be the same as mine but I'm just air-cooled.

I see that your sig is water cooled for silence, but I would have imagined better performance, even when silent. My air cooling is not silent but very quiet (L1A) and I was getting 50C at full load at 2.3GHz. Thinking about it, I was at 1.65V, but still I had always imagined water cooling to be more effective...

Regardless of all that, nice job on the oc, I agree that noise is more an issue than getting another 100MHz.

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:35 am

Seal wrote,

Hmmmm i suppose i could easily go for 2.4ghz but being a hardcore user constantly pushing my comp to the max running folding and having my computer on 24/7 all the time

This I did not know. You make a good point. I feel sorry for your computer. You need to send him on a vacation!!

Kie wrote,

see that your sig is water cooled for silence, but I would have imagined better performance, even when silent. My air cooling is not silent but very quiet (L1A) and I was getting 50C at full load

Still, an L1A @ 12V is definitely audible, whereas if you have the right 120mm fan @5V you definitely won't hear it. Plus he's running higher Vcore, and has lower temps. Plus, you seem to have a reallygood chip. Considering all this, water is pretty darn good (although they do say it's not better than the best air set-up, but it can give you Delta-fan like performance at much, much, much less noise).

kie · Post by **kie** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:36 pm

Well I guess I'm just ill-informed about water cooling. I always imagined cpu temps of around 10C with water cooling ... maybe I getting confused with phase vapour cooling or something.

Please ignore my water cooling comments

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:13 am

Hehe, with watercooling you can never get below room temperature, as the air you are cooling your water with is air from the room. Unless you put your radiator outside which a few people have done before. When you get something cooler than room temperature it starts to become complicated tthough as you start to get problems with condensation.

The best i can do on a no-overclock and fans on 12v is about 28-29 deg c no load, and around 33 deg c full load.

gecko991 · Post by **gecko991** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:40 am

I just set up a Mobile Barton chip yesterday on my old A7N8X Deluxe board and they really are fast. Im still burning the chip but I have ran a few benchies at 2600mhz at 1.80v and its stable but the new replacement board is on the way as this one is holding this chip back for sure. Im going with the DFI Lan Party board which should give better headroom with proper cooling. This chip is a IQYHA0407VPMW from new Egg. Im also using Corsair XMS C2 PC3500 ram. PC Mark04@ 12.5x207FSB http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm04=243937@2595mhz

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:00 pm

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS gecko991!!!!

Yeah i have an A7N8X too, mine is deluxe rev 2.0. Im not really going for the max overclock but im currently running it at 2.3ghz on 1.7V although i know its capable of alot more. Im running it gentle on a nice silent setup as its quick enough!

Mine is a AQZFA0304VPAW from cpucity in uk.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:48 pm

I hope it's not too much off topic, talking about stock Bartons...

I got quite interested in those -M CPUs, but since I've just got my new computer, it's a bit too late for me (no money!) . Besides that, I think I got a pretty good cpu anyway.
I'm running a stock 2500+, right now with 222x11 = 2442 MHz at 1,64 Volt, case open, Zalman 7000AlCu at 11V and coretemp at 43 degrees. Just testing.
Maybe it's not totally stable, but it worked flawless so far, even with Prime95 for one hour (not enough, but l'll try a longer time later).
This is the highest speed I can go with this voltage.

I'm not really into overclocking anyway, but the numbers give me the idea that this might be a good undervoltable CPU at 1400 - 1600 MHz or so (I don't need more, probably less) .
But, my ASUS A7V600 mobo won't go under 1,64 V. Typical ASUS I guess.

Now to my question:
What do you think about the possibilities to do some undervolting with this CPU? How much?

peaceful_moi · Post by **peaceful_moi** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:17 pm

Mats wrote: I'm not really into overclocking anyway, but the numbers give me the idea that this might be a good undervoltable CPU at 1400 - 1600 MHz or so (I don't need more, probably less) .
But, my ASUS A7V600 mobo won't go under 1,64 V. Typical ASUS I guess.

Now to my question:
What do you think about the possibilities to do some undervolting with this CPU? How much?

Here is some undervolt/underclock information for my XP-M 2400+ which arrived yesterday:

AXMH2400FQQ4C
AQYFA0343WPMW

It looks 1.23v-1.25v is the minimum Vcore that will run stable at 1.5GHz on my rig (see below). At 1.25v and 1,503 MHz (166 x 9), the CPU has an MBM idle temp of 38 and Prime95 temp of 42, with room ambient at 22. To get there, I had to cut an L11 bridge.

For those who might be interested, here are some details of my experience. Hope it’s not too much info.

On startup, the CPU defaulted to 1.575 Vcore and 100 FSB. MBM reported Vcore of 1.60v. WCPUID 3.0 identifies the CPU as: Vendor “AuthenticAMD,” Model “10,” Name “Unknown CPU type,” L2 Cache “512.” SiSoft Sandra identifies the CPU as a “Mobile Athlon XP (Barton/Thornton). Frequency multipliers from 6.5x through 12.5X are available. 1.575v became the minimum Vcore setting in the BIOS. (The A7N8X BIOS allows Vcore to be increased from default Vcore upwards, but not downwards, in increments of 0.025v to a maximum of default Vcore + .25v.)

The 1.575v Vcore corresponds with the desktop interpretation of the Vcore bridges. L11 bridges #1 and #3 (VID [4] and VID[2]) were closed and bridges #2, #4, and #5 are cut. (See the chart at http://fab51.fc2web.com/pc/barton/athlon-e23.html#L11)

At 1.60v and 1,169 MHz (the speed of my previous CPU - 166 x 7) the CPU had an idle temp of 41 and Prime95 temp of 45, with room ambient of 21.

Using a razor blade, I cut the #1 L11 bridge (VID[4] - with a value of 0.4v). #3 remained closed. The resultant default Vcore became 1.175v. This is in conformance with the desktop bridge interpretation, with no “wire trick” or bridge painting. Actually, the system initially booted at 1.425v, the top end of the new Vcore range of the BIOS.

I set the Vcore to 1.2v (MBM reports 1.22v).

At 1.22v and 1,169 MHz (166 x 7), the CPU had an MBM idle temp of 34 and Prime95 temp of 38 with room ambient at 22. So the operating temperature is about 7-8 degrees lower at 1.22v, compared with 1.575v.

I upped the speed to 1,503 MHz.

At 1.22v and 1,503 MHz (166 x 9), the CPU has an MBM idle temp of 37 and Prime95 temp of 40, with room ambient at 22.

To test the minimum available Vcore setting, I set the Vcore to 1.175v (MBM reported 1.20v).

At 1.20v and 1,503 MHz (166 x 9), the system booted and ran Prime95 for 9 minutes and then gave a “hardware failure detected” message and halted. CPU temp was 41. I tried it again, and it ran 8 minutes and halted.

So I set Vcore at 1.225 to provide some extra margin for error (MBM reports 1.23v-1.25v). It ran Prime95 stable for 7 hours today, and I think I’ll keep that setting. I’ll let you know if any problem develops.

This XP-M is an upgrade from a Tbred A 1700+, running at 1,169 MHz and stock 1.5v. The Tbred gave me acceptable performance and had a Prime 95 CPU temp of 45. (I would have tried experimenting on cutting its L11 bridges, but it was my only CPU.)

Performance of the XP-M at 1,503 Mhz is even snappier, and seems more than adequate for the work I do. SiSoft Sandra estimates a Performance Rating of 2181. I’m running solid at 3 degrees cooler with significantly more computer power. I’m quite satisfied. And quiet satisfied.

UPDATE 03/13/04

I got the urge to find out how this chip performs at stock speed. I set Vcore to 1.4v (MBM reports 1.42v) and the frequency to 1743MHz (MBM reports 1754).

At 1.42v and 1,754 MHz, the CPU has an MBM idle temp of 42 and Prime95 temp of 46, with room ambient at 22.

I think I’ll stay at 1.5GHz and 1.25v, since I don’t see any significant difference in performance at 1,754MHz, and I like the cooler temps, especially with spring and summer coming on.

(When I first attempted to change the BIOS settings, I encountered the severe BIOS corruption problem that occurs somewhat randomly with this board. I wound up flashing the latest 1007 BIOS, and it seems stable now. The new BIOS does not identify this chip any better than the 1001c did.)

gksam · Post by **gksam** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:02 pm

I got an Athlon XP-M 2500+ last week. I am running it on a GA-7VAX board -- which has no support for 200 FSB. I am therefore running 166*13.5 = 2240Mhz or so. The vcore is 1.70. at 1.65, it will give prime95 errors.

I ran prime95 overnight (8.5 hours) at 1.70V, and it reached around 55oC. Idle is around 47-48oC. This is with an AX-7 heatsink with a 6V panaflo L1A on it. The case is an SLK3700 with the 120mm exhaust fan running at 5V with a cut grille. The powersupply is an Antec Smartpower 350W (what came with the case), with a Panaflo L1A running at 6V.

kie · Post by **kie** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:34 am

peaceful_moi - thanks for the info

shame you have that board as others will let you control the voltage completel, but glad you got it working.

what heat sink/fan combo are you using? what case cooling do you have?
it would be useful to know so that we can put your temps into perspective

peaceful_moi · Post by **peaceful_moi** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:09 am

kie wrote: peaceful_moi - thanks for the info

You are most welcome. It is my pleasure to contribute to this subject as best I can.

kie wrote: shame you have that board as others will let you control the voltage completel, but glad you got it working.

Yes, I was disappointed when I found that the Vcore could only be adjusted upward. But when I looked at other boards, I found I didn't like their layout (like where the ATX power supply and ATA connections are located). This is important to me, because I cut a window in the case and installed a ruby red cold cathode light, so I can watch it live and breathe...

But, after cutting the L11 bridge, I now have it ALL. Quite a hobby...

kie wrote:what heat sink/fan combo are you using? what case cooling do you have?
it would be useful to know so that we can put your temps into perspective

The specs are in the sig below. I have two undervolted 80mm filtered front case fans blowing in, one undervolted 80mm rear case fan blowing out, and an undervolted 80mm PSU fan.

It's all very quiet.

Seal · Post by **Seal** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:07 pm

wow all voltages are availiable if you cut the L11? i never knew that before, i might try that one using the 9V battery method so theres no cosmetic damage and it looks un-tampered with too.

peaceful_moi · Post by **peaceful_moi** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:28 pm

Seal wrote:wow all voltages are availiable if you cut the L11? i never knew that before, i might try that one using the 9V battery method so theres no cosmetic damage and it looks un-tampered with too.

Not necessarily. If you cut all the bridges the system may not boot, unless you do a wire trick or some bridge painting. Be sure to check the chart at: http://fab51.fc2web.com/pc/barton/athlon-e23.html#L11

The way the A7N8X motherboard works, you only have access to a Vcore range of +0.25 volts, starting at the default Vcore (per the bridges) and going upward.

Given the bridge configuration for the XP-M 2400+, cutting the first L11 bridge results in a default Vcore of 1.175v.

Disclaimer: I am hardly an expert on this. Do not rely on anything I say.

syncopation · Post by **syncopation** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:01 pm

For anybody looking to buy these for a decent price.

http://www.ncix.com/promo/promosale.php?webid=spring

Scroll down to the CPU section (119.98 CAN$)

I don't like advertising for companies, but they're Canadian and it's on topic.

plympton · Post by **plympton** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:50 am

I'm getting tired of the "coming soon!" Pentium-M motherboards, so I'm considering building a Shuttle or similar box - but does anyone know if it supports the mobile chips at stock voltages? I can't figure / find out that information.

I want a pretty fast (not Epia), but quiet, and lower-power machine, some something I overclock...

-Dan

kie · Post by **kie** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:43 pm

any board that can take a regular barton can take one of the mobile bartons

that said, for your purposes, I would try and get a motherboard that will allow you to undervolt

peaceful_moi · Post by **peaceful_moi** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:10 am

Here's a comprehensive review by Sudhian, published on 03/15 that focuses on underclocking and undervolting the XP-M 2500+

It includes passive cooling at 600MHz...

http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=504

kie · Post by **kie** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:46 am

that's a great little article, I'm looking forwards to seeing the followup.

Quiet 60mm fan @ 1800RPM -> 47C at full load (1.8Ghz, 1.45V)

What more can you say?

PS: I bet you could run the XP-M @ 1GHz with just a single quiet case fan and reasonable temps. Would make a great HTPC me thinks ...

JimK · Post by **JimK** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:04 pm

Yes, it is a great little article. The more I read about the Mobil XP the more I think it will be a replacement for my passive PII 333. Underclock to one Gig, undervolt too. With a 5v Panaflo L1A on the heatsink who will be able to hear it from 1m away?

BTW, what an ugly, anoying use of ads on that site!

I hope Mike does not take SPCR to that kind of look.

SmallQuietComputing · Post by **SmallQuietComputing** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:58 am

Has anyone looked into using 8rdavcore (http://www.hasw.net/8rdavcore/) with these chips? It was mentioned in the comment thread on the Sudhian article (http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.c ... adid=53576).

Dynamically controlling FSB and voltage depending on load and temperature might allow those of us torn between quiet and the urge to overclock to satisfy both needs (more or less - overclock in the winter and underclock in the summer).

TomMM · Post by **TomMM** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:09 am

A lot of people here are looking for quiet desktop systems at a reasonable price, and that appears to be what this gives.

- fits in a regular Athlon MB
- price is reasonable
- heat/noise is quite low

Perfect! Forget all this overclocking stuff - this is a great SPCR CPU.

Tom.

Mobile Barton 2500 - owners and wannabe owners...

Undervolting XP-M 2400+

Do any SFF machines support the Mobile XP chips?

Sudihan review of XP-M 2500+