SPCR

Well, I think I've finally achieved about as much quietness as I possibly can, without doing anything TOO radical or extreme. Unfortunately, the system still isn't as quiet as I wish it were, but then again, maybe I'm just wishing for too much... But subjectively, I'd still say this system is now at **LEAST** AS quiet as my old Pentium III system was, and a VAST improvement over what I started with. So I've decided this machine might now be as quiet as it can possibly get, and I'll now leave it this way. The following is my account of how I've achieved this quietness.

In the end, I finally decided to ditch my old Tricod computer case, and replace it with an Antec SLK1600. What a difference a case makes... With the old case, I tried just about EVERYTHING, and no matter what I did--even when I tried running a NOISY system, with my Coolmax's 120mm fan at full speed (for about 79.4 CFM) and a 32 CFM case fan, I just couldn't seem to get my case temperature below 34 degrees Celsius--that number became like a brick wall. In the end, I have come to the conclusion that that case was absolutely *HORRIBLE* for ventilation and cooling.

With this new Antec case, all I can say is: WOW!!! I have now been able to get the case temperature as low as 27 degrees Celsius, running on maximum cooling, before I did quiet mods. Now, it runs about 28-29 degrees Celsius, which I'm afraid I may just have to settle for as good enough. :'(

Needless to say, the first thing I did with this case was to remove the stock Antec SL300S 300-watt single 80mm fanned power supply, and replace it with my Coolmax Taurus CX-350 120mm fanned PSU that I had in the other case.

I am also hoping this will be the last ATX form factor system I ever build, since BTX is coming. (I hope, anyway. Now that the spec has been released, I'm pretty sure it is just a matter of time before we see implementations.) With today's ever-increasing heat dissipation requirements, I think it is high time the ATX form factor was on its way out. The ATX form factor just doesn't take into account today's higher-powered CPU's, nor does it really take into account that today's video cards and GPU's are sorely in need of a better cooling solution, as they are now sometimes producing almost as much heat as the main CPU!!!!

Well, enough ranting--back to my new case: suffice it to say, the critics are NOT kidding when they say the Antec SLK1600 is CRAMPED. It really was a chore getting all the components to fit in there, but in the end, worth it in my opinion. The case is REALLY nice, compact, and lightweight, too.

So in the end, this is my final setup:

Antec SLK1600 case
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ CPU (2.0 GHz clock speed, running at STOCK speed, NOT overclocked OR underclocked in ANY way.)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 80GB SATA hard drive
Plextor PX-708A 8x DVD burner
Sony DDU-1621 16x DVD-ROM drive
Coolmax Taurus CX-350 35-watt PSU with 120mm fan
AcoustiFan AF92CT 92mm fan with temperature probe and sleeve bearing
Nexus AXP-3200 SkiveTek CPU cooler
MSI Nvidia GeForce FX 5200 video card with passive heatsink
Zalman ZM-NB47J passive northbridge heatsink
Other stuff not worth mentioning that doesn't relate to heat and sound output

Suffice it to say, cooling a hot system like this QUIETLY is *NOT* an easy challenge. While I admit that watercooling might be more efficient than air cooling, I felt that 1) it was too expensive, and 2) even if I could afford it, the idea of having WATER flowing around expensive electronic components like that makes me nervous, for some reason... (That's even though I know cars have been reliably watercooled using much the same kind of technology for hundreds of years now... So I guess I'm just paranoid.)

So this was my basic strategy:

1) Use as little forced-air cooling as possible. This meant using passive heatsinks where possible, and as few fans as possible. Those places where I couldn't do without fans, I tried to use ones that were as large and as quiet as possible. So now, I've got passive heatsinks on the video card and northbridge, and only 3 fans total: a 120mm fan in the PSU, a 92mm AcoustiFan with a thermistor (spinning typically at about 1500-1600 RPM), and a 70mm fan on the CPU heatsink, spinning at about 2400 RPM. I went with the Nexus SkiveTek AXP-3200 primarily because I wasn't sure that a Zalman 7000A would fit on my Soyo KT600 Dragon Plus motherboard, and the Nexus cooler is small and lightweight enough at 331 grams that I figure it is the next best thing. (Being only 31 grams over AMD's 300 gram limit for Socket 462, I figure there's virtually ZERO risk of it pulling off the socket.)

2) Try to ensure as few restrictions in the airflow as possible. To achieve this, I used only rounded cables, and as much as possible, I tried to keep all cables nice, neat, and tidy. To my absolute joy, I also found a nice tidy way to bundle up the unused wires from the PSU with a twist-tie, and I then stowed them in a little place inside the case between the PSU and the optical drives that almost looks like it was made especially for such a thing. I doubt my cabling could be any neater and tidier in this case. (I wish I had a shorter Serial ATA cable, but I figure that's a minor matter that I can fix later.)

3) I am using one of the quietest hard drives that the industry has to offer right now with the Seagate. hehe. I know a lot of people out there like to go further, and put their hard drives into noise-dampening enclosures and the like, but in general, I don't like this idea, mainly because enclosures also tend to make the hard drive run HOTTER, which is not good. The ONLY hard drive quieting solution I would consider (if my hard drive weren't already quiet enough) would be the Zalman ZM-2HC1 hard drive heatpipe cooler/vibration dampener, because it would actually offer some cooling. But even then, I would NOT consider it for this hard drive--it is quiet enough already, and 7200 RPM drives can generally run "naturally aspirated" as it were, as long as the case has adequate ventilation. The 10,000+ RPM drives are a different matter, however. There, having a cooling solution is practically a necessity... But that isn't me--at least, not now. (Someday I might get a 10,000 RPM drive, but not right now.)

4) I know a lot of "Silent PC enthusiasts" like to go even further, and dampen the noise of things like hard drive seeking, optical drive noise, etc., but in my opinion, I couldn't care less about momentary noises like that. To me, the only kinds of noises I can't stand are ones that are constant, like fans and hard drive motors.

5) Wherever I could, I tried to de-couple moving parts (like fans) from the case, using silica-gel vibration dampeners. To this end:

* the PSU was too tight in its bay for one, so I didn't decouple it. I initially tried dampening washers, but since the rest of the PSU box was in contact with rails, I decided in the end, it wasn't worth the effort to dampen it... The PSU fan runs so slowly though, I doubt it generates much vibration anyway. Also, if anything, the dampening washers seemed to make it slightly worse, I suspect maybe because the rest of the PSU was more able to vibrate against the rest of the bay... So I decided to go back to hard mounting in the end. Like I say, the bay is rigid enough, and the PSU quiet enough, that it doesn't make much difference.

* the AcoustiFan came with gel mounts, which seem like a tight fit in the mounting holes I've got in the case, but they work okay. This fan doesn't generate much vibration, either.

* the hard drive, though quiet, generates a LOT of vibration. Initially, the drive bay was resonating to the vibration VERY badly, generating noise that I found totally unacceptable. This is mainly due to a flaw in Antec's way of mounting the bay, in my opinion. Basically, there are three different bays, and they all slide on clips to each other. Then, they are kept in place with a single screw on each bay. They are NOT fixed to the front of the case, as you might think--this leaves them pretty much free to resonate very badly with the hard drive.

I didn't want to decouple the drive itself, because I know that HD's are in part cooled by their contact with the metal in the bay, which acts like a heat disperser. Luckily, I still found a way to solve the drive bay resonance problem very easily, by putting some silica-gel vibration dampening washers on the screws that held the bays together. You'd be AMAZED at what an extraordinary difference that made--it really was amazing, and proof that vibration dampening *IS* highly beneficial.

* The CPU fan, unfortunately, is now the loudest thing in the case. I don't know of any easy way to quiet it now though. Even though it is fairly quiet, it is noticeable over the other components in the system. Silent PC enthusiasts always like to attack the loudest components in their systems, which in turn typically causes another component to become the loudest thing--it is a fight that could possibly go on indefinitely... But I figure MY fight with noise must end somewhere... :'(

So what do you all think? Are there any non-extreme ways I could improve this system further?

That's very impressive. I just reminds me that I have an estimated $50 to go untill this project is finished.

-Por

Sorry

Dont wanna burst your bubble or anything, but a 2400xp, one harddrive and a low range FX5200, is not a hot system.

I doubt that you really need the case fan. Personally I'm not a big fan of the 70mm fans, but I've actually just made a small test on a Barton 2800+ with a mid sized no name heatsink + 70mm fan at around 2200rpm. At full load (small ish micro atx case) it never got above 55c without anything else than a slow 80mm fan in the PSU. So you may not need the case fan, or should be able to run it below 1000rpm.

I agree with RP , you dont need the case fan

You dont have an hot system.

** P4 2.4Ghz , Abit IC-7 board , Seagate Barracudas 120 GB and 80 GB , Geforce4 Ti-4200 , Lian-Li aluminium case , 2x256 PC-3200 DDR ram **

Well, under load, my Athlon XP 2400+ (Thoroughbred-B core) goes up to about 60-61 degrees Celsius (on die). Also, removing the case fan makes the case temperature go up about 5 degrees Celsius. Removing the side case panel makes it go up a WHOPPING 10 degrees Celsius.

I can only conclude from this that having an open system is NOT the best thing for airflow.

You know, I don't know whether I officially have a hot system or not, but my dual 2400+ with 4 hard drives (Raid 1 and Raid 0) is at it's hottest right now at 58C (F@H with me posting here). My video card is a G400 though. Anyways, I think that the loudest thing in my case is my power supply and possibly my drives.

My heatsinks are the Thermalright SLK-800s w/ undervolted L1As on them, and my case fan is a 120mm FBK that's also undervolted, courtesy of my Antec Power supply.

Because of my numbers, I suspect that I'm either too loud, or you may be able to improve your cooling.

sthayashi wrote:You know, I don't know whether I officially have a hot system or not, but my dual 2400+ with 4 hard drives (Raid 1 and Raid 0) is at it's hottest right now at 58C (F@H with me posting here).

Have you tried running cpuburn though? I find that cpuburn makes my CPU get hotter than folding@home can.

zuperdee wrote:Have you tried running cpuburn though? I find that cpuburn makes my CPU get hotter than folding@home can.

I just tried CPU burn for about 30 minutes or so and it got up to 57C. Then I put back on F@H, and it's down to 52C WTF?

I think the ambient temperature has dropped somewhat as night has fallen here.

Anyways, the point I was making in my original post is that I have more heat generating hardware than you, but I think/thought that I'm running slightly cooler than you are.

VERY interesting indeed. Well, as I post this right now, my case temperature is 31 degrees Celsius, and while running Folding@Home, my CPU temperature is 57 degrees Celsius--right around where yours was last night. So this kinda answers one question I had: is my processor running too hot? I take these figures as proof that my CPU *IS* probably running inside the ballpark... (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

Your system particularly interests me, because you are running exactly the same processor (2400+ Throughbred core) as I am, but in a dual configuration. Yes, I also agree you seem to have a "hotter system" than I do...

Also interesting is the fact that your Thermalright SLK-800 heatsinks seem to be performing about the same as my Nexus cooler, even though you have much lower-speed fans blowing on them than my Nexus AXP-3200 does. Of course, I realize this IS quite possible, since 1) Your Panaflo L1As are bigger than my Nexus's 70mm fan, 2) your Thermalright heatsinks are pure copper as opposed mine which is AlCu, and 3) the SLK-800 is overall a bit bigger than my Nexus cooler, and about TWICE the overall weight. (And that's before you've even added the fan to your SLK-800, according to the specs I've read for your SLK-800--correct me if I'm mistaken. My Nexus cooler is specified to be 331 grams.) Don't get me wrong--so far, I'd say it sounds like I have NO reason whatsoever to change my cooler. I chose the Nexus AXP-3200 because although my Soyo SY-KT600 Dragon Plus has mounting holes for bigger heatsinks, I don't think there's room for one. Therefore, I decided the best bet was a smaller one that mounted on the socket. And if I'm going to mount it on the socket, then boy, I want it to be as close to AMD's 300 gram limit as possible, cause although I want my system to be quiet, I'm not taking any chances when it comes to safety.

When I open up my case, the case temperature typically RISES about 10 degrees Celsius, while the CPU temperature DROPS about 5 degrees Celsius. I attribute this change to the fact that 1) the CPU gets cooler, since cooler room air, as opposed to heated case air, is blowing on the CPU heatsink, and 2) the case gets hotter, since it has no way to cool itself other than normal heat dissipation through the room air. Obviously, having air FLOWING THROUGH the case is better for cooling than stagnant room air is.

Of course, the other question is, are my case temps okay? I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall here, because I've now tried virtually EVERYTHING, and I mean, EVERYTHING. I've tried side fans, front fans, rear fans, NO fans, and every permutation and combination thereof, in *TWO* different cases, and in my old Codegen case, it never could get below 34 degrees C. In the Antec SLK1600 case, it is a bit better--nothing seems to be able to get my case temperature lower than about 29-30 degrees C. I have a feeling it CAN'T get any lower. So is anyone willing to prove me wrong?

zuperdee wrote: Of course, the other question is, are my case temps okay? I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall here, because I've now tried virtually EVERYTHING, and I mean, EVERYTHING. I've tried side fans, front fans, rear fans, NO fans, and every permutation and combination thereof, in *TWO* different cases, and in my old Codegen case, it never could get below 34 degrees C. In the Antec SLK1600 case, it is a bit better--nothing seems to be able to get my case temperature lower than about 29-30 degrees C. I have a feeling it CAN'T get any lower. So is anyone willing to prove me wrong?

What is wrong with a 30C case temp? It is perfectly fine and even overclockers find a 30C temp acceptable. My room temp is around 22C and case is 31, HD 40, CPU 41. Different motherboards report temperatures differently and comparisons between them are not exact. Too many variables in place. I am not even sure where the thermal sensor on most boards is, and havent come across a good explanation indicating its location. The location alone will have a huge influence on temps.

WRT CPU temps, I would get a new cpu cooler. Check out spcr sponsors, they have the zalman alcu for under 30$. Should be a HUGE improvement over your nexus.

zuperdee wrote:When I open up my case, the case temperature typically RISES about 10 degrees Celsius, while the CPU temperature DROPS about 5 degrees Celsius. I attribute this change to the fact that 1) the CPU gets cooler, since cooler room air, as opposed to heated case air, is blowing on the CPU heatsink, and 2) the case gets hotter, since it has no way to cool itself other than normal heat dissipation through the room air. Obviously, having air FLOWING THROUGH the case is better for cooling than stagnant room air is.

My case temperature ranges from 36C to 40C. Right now it's at 38C. I think this is mostly due to the fact that I have 4 drives in an SLK-3700BQE. But my temps most definitely drop when I open the case door. I usually leave it close though since it impedes noise.

BTW, I can testify to not having any heatsink weight issues, even though I'm using 2 heavy weights. Truthfully, I wanted to go with the Zalman 7000, but the A7M266-D doesn't have holes in the motherboard (Although I can see where the holes would go. They seem to be filled in with solder?). I went with the Zalman 6000AlCu, but frankly, I found the cooling performance to be mediocre at best. Glad to hear that you enjoy the Nexus cooler.

tay wrote:WRT CPU temps, I would get a new cpu cooler. Check out spcr sponsors, they have the zalman alcu for under 30$. Should be a HUGE improvement over your nexus.

Um, zuperdee wants to minimize weight on his socket. The Zalman 7000AlCu weighs in at about 447g. That's a lot heavier than what he has now. Plus he may not have room for it.

sthayashi wrote:My case temperature ranges from 36C to 40C. Right now it's at 38C. I think this is mostly due to the fact that I have 4 drives in an SLK-3700BQE. But my temps most definitely drop when I open the case door. I usually leave it close though since it impedes noise.

Interesting. I wonder why they drop on your system when you open the door, but rise on mine. In my system, the temp is normally about 29-30 degrees C at normal room temperature. When I turn on a 1500 watt heater for stress testing (to see what it'd be like on a hot summer day), I've been able to get it as high as 38 degrees C.

sthayashi wrote:Um, zuperdee wants to minimize weight on his socket. The Zalman 7000AlCu weighs in at about 447g. That's a lot heavier than what he has now. Plus he may not have room for it.

Correct--I would have gone for the Zalman 7000A-AlCu, as I do think it is a superior design to the Nexus in terms of quietness and cooling power. I'm also quite sure its weight would be no problem if it were mounted through the motherboard instead of the socket--and my Soyo SY-KT600 Dragon Plus does have the mounting holes available. However, the main problem is that I don't think there's room. For one thing, my CPU socket is pretty close to the power supply--even the Nexus cooler barely clears the power supply. The other problem is that I don't think a Zalman would clear some of the capacitors that are around my socket.

That's why I'm sticking with the Nexus, because if I have no other choice than to mount it on the socket, I want to make sure there's no risk of it tearing off the socket. Only 31 grams over the limit (which is less than an ounce, if I'm not mistaken) doesn't worry me, but 100+ grams over the limit certainly would make me worry.

I also don't think the Nexus cooler is too bad, cause it does keep my CPU about 2 degrees cooler than the stock AMD cooler did. That thing was HORRIBLE for noise, and definitely not the best for cooling. But I figure if the Nexus is at least keeping my CPU cooler than the stock cooler, and the stock cooler was okay with AMD, then I can't be too much worse off. (Someone correct me if I'm mistaken here.)

Bottom line: I think the Nexus cooler, though maybe not as cool as the Zalman, is still a very good contender for those (like me) seeking a solution that is compact and lightweight enough to fit on motherboards that don't have enough room for a Zalman.

Well considering your temperatures then the "system" temperature is usually meaningless since it depends on the location of the thermistor which varies from mobo to mobo.


e.g. s == thermistor for system temp on my mobo

As you can see the thermistor for the "system" is in more or less the hottest spot on the mobo and is therefore unsuitable as an indicator of environment conditions.


I have cpu (die) temps around 50C idle and close to 68 running CPU burn and my "system" temp is typically close to 50 also (even if the air inside the computer is cool)

Since AMD chips are rated at 85C (some at 90) there is really no need to worry if your die temp is in the low fifties high forties.

zuperdee wrote:Interesting. I wonder why they drop on your system when you open the door, but rise on mine.

Because you have good airflow in your system... give yourself a pat on the back. Good airflow is tough to achieve... few people have cooler case temps with the case closed than with it open.