Hey
I was stumbling around today and i found this
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041320 ... phire.html
It's a chemical that has the properties of water, but doesn't get things wet. Didn't someone want to try keeping their entire computer submerged in water, but it had to be distilled perfectly? (So it would not conduct electric current.) Well anyway, just check this out... maybe it could bea new solution for cooling. As long as "sapphire can absorb heat like water.
New "Dry Water" Cooling possiblities?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Hmm, that's interesting. Wonder what its conductive properties are like. And how stable it is.
Wonder if it can be used in a water cooling setup (less chance of something going poof) - what is the density, viscosity, etc.
Probably still not a good idea to submerge your HDD in it though, Rusty & IssacKuo
Wonder if it can be used in a water cooling setup (less chance of something going poof) - what is the density, viscosity, etc.
Probably still not a good idea to submerge your HDD in it though, Rusty & IssacKuo
3M Novec 1230
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-68/iclcrFR/view.jhtml
Boiling point : 49.2C @ 1 ATM
Specific heat (liquid) : 1.103 kJ/kgC
Liquid Viscosity @ 0C/25C : 0.56 / 0.39 centistokes
Density, sat. liquid : 1.6 g/ml
Can someone remember (or look up) what are the specific heat capacity and viscosity of distilled water?
http://cms.3m.com/cms/US/en/2-68/iclcrFR/view.jhtml
Boiling point : 49.2C @ 1 ATM
Specific heat (liquid) : 1.103 kJ/kgC
Liquid Viscosity @ 0C/25C : 0.56 / 0.39 centistokes
Density, sat. liquid : 1.6 g/ml
Can someone remember (or look up) what are the specific heat capacity and viscosity of distilled water?
Water viscosity is 1.14 x 10-3 kg/m s
Specific heat is about 4 kJ/kg K depending on pressure and temperature
There's quite a big discussion about this at procooling - from the bits I understood the conductivity of the liquid might be quite important in some circumstances, otherwise it will really struggle to beat water.
Specific heat is about 4 kJ/kg K depending on pressure and temperature
There's quite a big discussion about this at procooling - from the bits I understood the conductivity of the liquid might be quite important in some circumstances, otherwise it will really struggle to beat water.
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Hmmm - interesting stuff.
Assuming that "electrical devices" don't get hurt, that I can imagine with a liquid. That books "stay dry", that I'd like to see. Must be some pretty ingenious stuff
.Certainly I can see this be quite interested for PC cooling.
I've personally (mora paranoia than anything, I admit) have always shied away from water-cooling my PC. THIS might make the risk of leaks ... an inconveniance, not a threat
.Most interesting indeed
.It would seem like whatever it is, it must have some sort of massively high surface tension to be able to touch things without being absorbed. I could swear that surface tension is one of the things that actually prevents effective heat transfer in the first place, so it would seem like this may not be effective for use as a heat transfer medium if that's how it keeps from being absorbed by paper, for example.
Actually, it's just a non-polar liquid. Because of that, it doesn't even have any surface tension at all.AZBrandon wrote:It would seem like whatever it is, it must have some sort of massively high surface tension to be able to touch things without being absorbed. I could swear that surface tension is one of the things that actually prevents effective heat transfer in the first place, so it would seem like this may not be effective for use as a heat transfer medium if that's how it keeps from being absorbed by paper, for example.
There's nothing too special about this stuff, it's just a non-polar liquid that will evaporate reasonably fast at room temperature; it's not a magical water or anything.
Well, if it is a liquid and has a surface, it has a surface tension. However, I don't think surface tension is what is needed. It is heat capacity. Water has a high heat capacity, meaning that it can "store" a lot of heat without the temperature of the water increasing a lot. The heat capacity is probably lower than water.
My guess is that this stuff is a fluorocarbon oil with a high volatility so that it evaporates fast. Flourocarbon oils of various types are used as replacements for freons. Unlike freon, they don't damage the ozone layer. They are also nonflammable, nontoxic, and don't conduct electricity. I once saw a television running while completely submerged in a fluorocarbon oil. These oils also can store a lot of oxygen so you can breath "underwater". I saw a video of a mouse running around in the bottom of a beaker of a fluorocarbon oil saturated with oxygen. It lived submerged for a couple of days.
Interesting stuff, but I don't know if it would be any better than water for liquid cooling (not being electrically conductive may be an advantage though for some things).
My guess is that this stuff is a fluorocarbon oil with a high volatility so that it evaporates fast. Flourocarbon oils of various types are used as replacements for freons. Unlike freon, they don't damage the ozone layer. They are also nonflammable, nontoxic, and don't conduct electricity. I once saw a television running while completely submerged in a fluorocarbon oil. These oils also can store a lot of oxygen so you can breath "underwater". I saw a video of a mouse running around in the bottom of a beaker of a fluorocarbon oil saturated with oxygen. It lived submerged for a couple of days.
Interesting stuff, but I don't know if it would be any better than water for liquid cooling (not being electrically conductive may be an advantage though for some things).
Couple of quick points about some misleading points in the thread:
- from the numbers (b.p.) and lack of hydrogen bonds this substance looks like it is fairly volatile. You would need very good sealing of your watercooling setup. A piddly leak and poof all your liquid is gone.
- to confirm the first point, it has 12x the vapour pressure of water meaning its eager to evaporate.
- Its density is 1.6g/ml while water is 1g/ml. Could be bad news for aquarium water pumps.
- it has a very low heat of vapourization which implies that it has low specific heat capacity. This could be good if you want your radiator to be as hot as your waterblock metal. Higher temp diff should lead to more heat transfer.
- its low surface tension (cohesion/adhesion) makes it difficult to pump through tubes (guessing here).
- if its a poor electrical conductor its very likely that its a poor thermal conductor as well.
- it should have negligible surface tension. Surface tension is not some magical property of liquids but due to hydrogen bonds.
- could be useful as a tank to dunk your whole system in (sans case). This has been tried with various oils etc IIRC.
- dry ice is frozen CO2.
Polar : it has poles. Positively charged and negatively charged part(s).
The charge i speak of is a partial electron charge (mulliken charge?) on the molecule caused by its being made up of different atoms and the nature of the bonds. Since we all know like charges repel and unlike charges attract, polar liquids orient themselves in a fashion where positive and negative are adjacent causing maximal attraction.
- A polar liquid is one that is attracted to other molecules of itself. This is strongest(?) in water. This is the reason why water is such a great solvent (of other polar substances) and is used widely in cleaning. This is the reason for waters cohesion/adhesion/surface tension and practically all other water properties as well.
- acetone is a non polar solvent good for dissolving non polar substances (such as thermal compound goop).
- from the numbers (b.p.) and lack of hydrogen bonds this substance looks like it is fairly volatile. You would need very good sealing of your watercooling setup. A piddly leak and poof all your liquid is gone.
- to confirm the first point, it has 12x the vapour pressure of water meaning its eager to evaporate.
- Its density is 1.6g/ml while water is 1g/ml. Could be bad news for aquarium water pumps.
- it has a very low heat of vapourization which implies that it has low specific heat capacity. This could be good if you want your radiator to be as hot as your waterblock metal. Higher temp diff should lead to more heat transfer.
- its low surface tension (cohesion/adhesion) makes it difficult to pump through tubes (guessing here).
- if its a poor electrical conductor its very likely that its a poor thermal conductor as well.
- it should have negligible surface tension. Surface tension is not some magical property of liquids but due to hydrogen bonds.
- could be useful as a tank to dunk your whole system in (sans case). This has been tried with various oils etc IIRC.
- dry ice is frozen CO2.
Polar : it has poles. Positively charged and negatively charged part(s).
The charge i speak of is a partial electron charge (mulliken charge?) on the molecule caused by its being made up of different atoms and the nature of the bonds. Since we all know like charges repel and unlike charges attract, polar liquids orient themselves in a fashion where positive and negative are adjacent causing maximal attraction.
- A polar liquid is one that is attracted to other molecules of itself. This is strongest(?) in water. This is the reason why water is such a great solvent (of other polar substances) and is used widely in cleaning. This is the reason for waters cohesion/adhesion/surface tension and practically all other water properties as well.
- acetone is a non polar solvent good for dissolving non polar substances (such as thermal compound goop).
This is getting way off topic and more like a chemistry class. However, I just can't resist correcting some things:
1. Electrical conductivity and heat conductivity are not always directly related. Please see Arctic Silver products as a prime example. They are great heat conductors, but poor electrical conductors.
2. You don't have to have hydrogen bonding to have surface tension. It isn't magical, but it IS a property of ALL liquids. Gases don't have surface tension because they don't have surfaces. Surface tension arises because of intermolecular forces (hydrogen bonding being one of them) but nonpolar oils have surface tension, water has surface tension, alcohol has surace tension, and so does any liquid surface. Solids do to...but that is another story.
3. Surface tension doesn't have anything to do with pumping liquids because you typically have no vapor in your pump, so there is no liquid/vapor surface. High viscosity may make it difficult to pump through small channels, but not low surface tension.
4. You are right about high volatility causing problems with leaks, but that doesn't always mean it has a low heat capcity. In addition, vaporization/condensation cycles are a great way to move heat. It is how air conditioners and refrigerators work. It is also how the Heatlane heatsink is supposed to work as well.
5. Acetone is a polar solvent (like alcohol, it is miscible with water), but it happens to dissolve nonpolar things pretty well.
6. Cohesion and adhesion are two different things. Adhesion refers to attraction between two DIFFERENT things across an interface (like oil and water). Cohesion is attraction between molecules making up a substance.
By the way, when I am not monkeying with my computer or playing with Linux, I work as a professor of Chemical Engineering.
1. Electrical conductivity and heat conductivity are not always directly related. Please see Arctic Silver products as a prime example. They are great heat conductors, but poor electrical conductors.
2. You don't have to have hydrogen bonding to have surface tension. It isn't magical, but it IS a property of ALL liquids. Gases don't have surface tension because they don't have surfaces. Surface tension arises because of intermolecular forces (hydrogen bonding being one of them) but nonpolar oils have surface tension, water has surface tension, alcohol has surace tension, and so does any liquid surface. Solids do to...but that is another story.
3. Surface tension doesn't have anything to do with pumping liquids because you typically have no vapor in your pump, so there is no liquid/vapor surface. High viscosity may make it difficult to pump through small channels, but not low surface tension.
4. You are right about high volatility causing problems with leaks, but that doesn't always mean it has a low heat capcity. In addition, vaporization/condensation cycles are a great way to move heat. It is how air conditioners and refrigerators work. It is also how the Heatlane heatsink is supposed to work as well.
5. Acetone is a polar solvent (like alcohol, it is miscible with water), but it happens to dissolve nonpolar things pretty well.
6. Cohesion and adhesion are two different things. Adhesion refers to attraction between two DIFFERENT things across an interface (like oil and water). Cohesion is attraction between molecules making up a substance.
By the way, when I am not monkeying with my computer or playing with Linux, I work as a professor of Chemical Engineering.
lol right you are, thanks for the corrections. Thinking wrt mercury and the surface tension it displays and a bit of oil in a pan clumping together (until you heat it to make the oil less so). I dont really see _why_ oil has decent surface tension but its going to drag this thread even more off topic if you answer that 
.
I guess I wasnt being too clear and just said cohesion/adhesion instead of a +. And yeah I actually wrote that post in 5 mins since I am studying for stuff and realized later that surface/tension has nothing to do with pumping and just affects capillary action. WRT the acetone *groan* I shouldve known better.
So, is heat of vapourization not related to specific heat capacity at all? I havent done any physical chem just organic chem. Ideal gas laws? Long forgotten heheh. Van der Wha???
In any case if this is just a "green" freon or those military style submergible electronic thingies its hardly exciting for wc type use. IMO water is used everywhere for a billion different things for good reason.
.I guess I wasnt being too clear and just said cohesion/adhesion instead of a +. And yeah I actually wrote that post in 5 mins since I am studying for stuff and realized later that surface/tension has nothing to do with pumping and just affects capillary action. WRT the acetone *groan* I shouldve known better.
So, is heat of vapourization not related to specific heat capacity at all? I havent done any physical chem just organic chem. Ideal gas laws? Long forgotten heheh. Van der Wha???
In any case if this is just a "green" freon or those military style submergible electronic thingies its hardly exciting for wc type use. IMO water is used everywhere for a billion different things for good reason.
BUT ... more interestingly...
... if a TV works in it, there's some chance that it'd be possible to use as a coolant as well. Not so much the traditional "waterpump" way, more the "bathe in the tank" approach.
Would make transporting it quite a pain, and impurifications from the air would be a problem, possibly.
Hmmm ... maybe a little impractical after all, thinking on it ...
... pitty - sounded so nice.
... if a TV works in it, there's some chance that it'd be possible to use as a coolant as well. Not so much the traditional "waterpump" way, more the "bathe in the tank" approach.
Would make transporting it quite a pain, and impurifications from the air would be a problem, possibly.
Hmmm ... maybe a little impractical after all, thinking on it ...
... pitty - sounded so nice
.Chances are the cost would make it impractical to do full imersion. It's possible this stuff would be somewhere off in the $300-500/gallon range depending on how specialized they consider it. For circulating system, like a conventional watercooling setup, you might only need perhaps a quart or so, and it might then be an acceptable cost given it's higher safety around electronics than water. Who knows.