SPCR

My boss at the print shop just bought a Logitech LX500 cordless desktop and while the mouse isn't particularly good (it does have side scrolling as well as standard scroll, though), the keyboard it comes with is great! I messed around with it for a while and found it to be the quietest keyboard I've ever tried other than the rubber, "indestructable," ones. It's quieter than any laptop keyboard I've tried or the Logitech diNovo.

If anyone gets a chance, please try one out at Best Buy or CompUSA and let me know what you think. The only drawbacks are the price (I mean I don't want that darn mouse but have to pay for it--same for the cordless technology, and they don't offer a stand-alone or corded version) and the spacebar, which is the one key on the board that makes noise, a spring twang type sound.

-Ed

IthinkI'vefiguredoutasolutionforthespacebarnoisiness.

Seriously though.. I'm after a quiet keyboard with a good feel.. but what's the current thinking about cordless (radio, not IR) keyboards? Are they safe or snoopable?

I'll try find one in London tomorrow and I'll give feedback.

Logitech quotes their Fast RF technology to be encrypted; I do not know, however, from personal experience, as the only cordless Logitech keyboard I have is their Cordless Desktop MX for Bluetooth; it's encrypted by PIN, but that's a standard Bluetooth feature.

I also bought their MX1000 Laser Mouse, but it obviously doesn't need encryption.

Thanks; look forward to your feelings on it.

-Ed

anyone know of a good wireless keyboard that isn't all bulbous like the logitech and microsoft ones? (aside from the di novo, which is my current favorite, aside from its price)

I have the diNovo and it is the best keyboard ever... for what I use it. Bluetooth is great, I see my computer screen in any TV of the house and I can use the keyboard and mouse from any place. And it is sleek and small, and so that it fits nicely in the kitchen or in the TV room. And it is very quiet.

But... It is not solid at all. I can't type fast with it and even if I don't use it so much (I rarely type anything at home, just emails and forums posts) occasionally some keys get loose.

If you want a sleek keyboard, get the diNovo. If you are going to work heavily with it, you'd better avoid it and get a real keyboard.

About your specific question about security, yes, any Bluetooth device can be snooped. Even your BT phone headset. Think twice before you type or say that word! But I doubt anyone will listen to my conversations or look at what I type. I have a really boring life

Is any private user really afraid of beeing snooped?
I doubt the things most people do from home is that interesting to justify the work to snoop them.
I you really are afraid of snooping you need to take lots of actions: Radio keyboard is out of the question. Secure building with alarm system is a must (to aviod installation of snooping devices in the house). No CRT-screens allowed. Cloth curtains has to go. You need to either encrypt all network traffic or at least use fully shielded cables.
Now all that is left is putting tin-foil on the inside of your hat to stop mind-reading...

silvervarg wrote:I doubt the things most people do from home is that interesting to justify the work to snoop them.

Passwords and credit card numbers.

Security is understood in different ways at each side of the Ocean. Of course I don't want my credit card numbers to be public (frankly, I don't care for any of my passwords at home), but the risk of the number being stolen is the same when you pay with your credit card in a restaurant (at least in Spain), and that doesn't stop me from having luch out of home...

Let's say we have a more relaxed view of security, a compromise where we want security but we don't want it to interfere in our day to day activities. I don't say it's better, just different.

rperezlo, I said it's encrypted by PIN; I never said it's strongly encrypted or secure. Nor did I say they aren't snoopable.

I recently purchased the Logitech UltraX Keyboard. It's as quiet as a notebook keyboard, as it has the same type of keys. Space bar is quiet too.

Well then isn't it, "only," as quiet as diNovo or any laptop?

I personally found the LX500 even quieter than diNovo/laptops.

Plus; you can't just walk into a store and try out the UltraX keyboard, whereas here in the US, CompUSA stocks the LX500 so you can walk in and try one out before buying. Keyboard's gotta' be tried and tested, if you ask me.

In Sweden you can - I just did. But there is a price premium to pay over ordering it from the cheapest web shop.


Of course they are not supposed to sell it unless bundled with a new computer, but who wants to buy a new computer only to get a keyboard?

Test it in the store, then go home and order it online.

lenny wrote:

silvervarg wrote:I doubt the things most people do from home is that interesting to justify the work to snoop them.

Passwords and credit card numbers.

UNIX logins, Windows logins, (root passwords), VPN logins, website logins..
There are all kinds of information, on top of banking details, that are sensitive and some of these could leave you legally liable.
..oh, and you wouldn;t want someone logging into your computer and messing up those digital pics that you just brought back from Machu Picchu.

I tried to find the keyboard today but didn't have much time - couldn't find it in two shops and a few others were packed and I was in a rush.. hopefully next week I'll have a chance.

Silvervarg:
I doubt the things most people do from home is that interesting to justify the work to snoop them.

Lenny:
Passwords and credit card numbers.

DonP:
UNIX logins, Windows logins, (root passwords), VPN logins, website logins..
There are all kinds of information, on top of banking details, that are sensitive and some of these could leave you legally liable.

I think you miss the point. The value of information that private people have should be compared to the value of information that can be stolen from someone else, e.g. a successfull company.
There are more interesting and valuable things to snoop that are easier to get hold of for criminal purpouses.
Secondly, if someone wants to get that kind of information from you I doubt they would go for snooping your keyboard.
To get general account access to random computers you can use standard hacker software that exploits known security holes and viruses that opens up machines.
To get credit card numbers get the paper trash from any restaurant.
If you want information by snooping a beter choice would be to hook into the telephone station and snoop all ADSL/VDSL lines in that area at once.

The main thing is that you are probably giving yourself a faulse sence of security if you just look at what signals your keyboard sends out. If you want to be unsnoopable you have to look at the entire chain and make sure you don't have any weak link.
You can expect to find that the cost of becoming very hard to snoop quickly becomes very high, so you need to ask yourself how much your information is worth.

Grab a wireless keyboard, and see how far you can get from the recieiver before it stops working. My budget one doesnt go far past 3 metres.

I also keep a wired keyboard for gaming (lag on the wireless), or batteries out, bios, that kinda thing. Suppose you could just keep a wired keyboard, or buy a small usb numberpad or somesuch.

griff

DonP wrote:IthinkI'vefiguredoutasolutionforthespacebarnoisiness.

Seriously though.. I'm after a quiet keyboard with a good feel.. but what's the current thinking about cordless (radio, not IR) keyboards? Are they safe or snoopable?

I'll try find one in London tomorrow and I'll give feedback.

Non-bluetooth logitech wireless keyboards have a Windows utility called iTouch that you can use to setup encryption. I do not know how strong that encryption is.

When you initally set up their wireless keyboard, it is unencrypted. Then you install iTouch and then it can be encrypted. Once encryption is enabled, you no longer need iTouch. You can plug the wireless receiver into any other computer without iTouch and it will be encrypted. iTouch is only to set up encryption.

I've noticed a slight extra lag with encryption enabled that I can notice on certain tasks like games. It could be in my head, and perhaps there is no real difference in latency in encrypted vs unencrypted wireless transmission.

I have a cordless mx duo. The range on this keyboard is not that great. The base station is less than a foot away, which really defeats the purpose of a wireless keyboard (I bought it mostly for the rechargeable mouse). I have encryption enabled, and I'm not too worried about the neighbors snooping.

The Media Pad of my diNovo (bluetooth) reaches halfway across my apartment.

I've found that the Logitech Wireless receiver (at least for the MX series) is highly dependent on what it's near. I use one for my Shuttle/HTPC. If it sits on the TV, it doesn't pick up anything. Right now it sits on my HT receiver and I can get about 6 feet or so range. But if I push Logitech receiver back by about 1-2" on the audio receiver, I get virtually no reception.

I've been tempted by the Bluetooth, but I don't think it's going to be all that different.

I've been tempted by the Bluetooth, but I don't think it's going to be all that different.

It IS that different. The range of a Bluetooth device is at least 10 meters. Of course you have less range indoors, but it is still several meters. I use the diNovo in my TV Room to watch computer movies and play PC games. The PC is in a different room in a different floor and the distance is about 6 meters with two brick walls. The BT receiver is on top of the PC, so that the PC is also in the radio path. I don't have any reception problem. The keyboard, MediaPad and mouse work perfect in three different rooms around the house.

And BT has another feature. If the range is not enough for you, any device can be used as a repeater. You can drop the keyboard (or your BT enabled Mobile phone) halfway and it will increase your BT range.

Regarding battery life, I have not changed batteries in the keyboard since January. The MediaPad batteries last about three months, but it has a display in it, and the mouse is rechargeable. And I don't notice any lag playing fast games like Doom3 or similar.

I went to the store and played with the LX500. It's not really silent at all!

It's quieter than my IBM!

The feel is also excellent, to me, as is the actual build quality. Yes, it's not as quiet as a diNovo, or laptop keyboard (or the UltraX, for the matter), but it has better feel than those (imho).

-Ed

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink What i mean is that a keyboard is very personal, everyone can not like the same keyboard..

Please forgive me, Ed, but which one is it?

Edward Ng wrote:I messed around with it for a while and found it to be the quietest keyboard I've ever tried other than the rubber, "indestructable," ones. It's quieter than any laptop keyboard I've tried or the Logitech diNovo.

Edward Ng wrote:It's quieter than my IBM!

The feel is also excellent, to me, as is the actual build quality. Yes, it's not as quiet as a diNovo, or laptop keyboard (or the UltraX, for the matter), but it has better feel than those (imho).

Well unfortunately I'd say it depends on the user. I type hard; in those cases, the LX500 is quieter. If you're a softer typist, the diNovo/UltraX/laptop is quieter. This has everything to do with the difference in key travel. I will say that the spacebar on diNovo/UltraX/laptops is definitely quieter than the space bar on the LX500's board.

-Ed

I wonder if any of you have tried Dell's keyboard?

It's been refined throughout the years, although I don't know who the actual manufacturer is. To me it's quieter than the LX500 I played with at Best Buy. I'm not sure which revision of keyboard it is, but any dell shipped during the past one to two years should have it. Dimension 4550, 4600 for sure.

Of course it does depend on the user. The way my girlfriend types, nothing is quiet.

Meh, the new Dell keyboards aren't all that great. The old ones were pretty good, though.

Tyrdium wrote:Meh, the new Dell keyboards aren't all that great. The old ones were pretty good, though.

True. Prior to finding the PSK5000/UltraX type of keyboard, the earlier (ca. 1998-2001-ish) Dells were the quietest keyboards I could find.

Maybe you guys are thinking about a different Dell keyboard. We've been buying Dells every year since '99, and it gets quieter every year. There is no way you can compare the keyboard shipped today to the ones even from 2002. It is much quieter.

Not trying to be difficult, but that's the way it is. This is just the plain keyboard. Maybe the wireless or multimedia ones are different. Anyway, that's all I have to say. Just trying to offer a different suggestion. I'll go order mine and be happy

Sure, the new ones are quiet, but they've got this really crappy mushy feeling. For me, if the keyboard feels like crap, I don't care how quiet it is.