Intel throws down the gauntlet

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Intel throws down the gauntlet

Post by Green Shoes » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:58 pm

Is anyone up to the challenge?

Anand recently got the power draw numbers up on the new 6xx series (I assume they're fairly accurate, not sure of their methodology), as seen here. The newest EE draws an astounding 233W at full load! :shock: I was hoping that the 6xx series would draw a little less power than their 5xx cousins, since Intel's had a little longer to get it right, but they're at least a few watts higher at every level.

Now, not being a fanboy of either AMD or Intel (I own 3 comps: PIII, dual MP, and G4, cover all the bases), this makes me a little sad; I think competition is always good and these new processors are still getting beat by AMD in most benchmarks. But I digress. :oops:

It seems that nobody on this forum would try to cool a beast like that (not to mention the higher-wattage power supply that it and a beefy VGA card would require). I like the Dothans but it seems silly to shell out 2x the amount of money for mobo & CPU than for AMD. Is anyone still sticking with Intel out there? And is anyone able to silence these suckers?

(mods, feel free to move this if you feel it belongs elsewhere)

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Post by niels007 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:14 pm

The sollution comes from AMD with their superb Winchester 90nm cpu. Often faster than a P4 and when slower, still very fast. I would never consider Intel anymore, AMD holds its own in previously Intel dominated benchmarks as well.

When upgrading, most come from a pretty 'slow' pc, like a 1.4ghz Athlon or P4.. From that point, any AMD64 or P4 is a huge upgrade. And since AMD wins most speed tests and is so easy to cool.. Need I say more? :)

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Post by lm » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:33 pm

Reasons to choose Intel instead of AMD are escaping me.

And I'm no fanboy of either brand, my other machine is my 3rd intel machine, and my main machine is my first amd.

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Re: Intel throws down the gauntlet

Post by sthayashi » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:46 am

Green Shoes wrote:I like the Dothans but it seems silly to shell out 2x the amount of money for mobo & CPU than for AMD. Is anyone still sticking with Intel out there?
I intend to stick with Intel here unless Turino turns out to be something impressive.

Dothan appears to have slightly reduced performance compared to A64 alongside with much reduced heat*. This allows us to do things with Dothan that we never would have thought about doing with a PC-class processor before. We can largely ignore case design and CPU airflow and focus on other priorities, such as design aesthetics, VGA cooling, or whatever you want. Remember that case that SPCR didn't recommend? Well now you don't have to worry about using it.

If you're looking for a more general Intel defense, let me paraphrase this:
No one got fired for buying WIntel.

* = I have not made a direct comparison between the two and I'm willing to change my opinion if new evidence suggests that this statement is not at all true.

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:32 am

sthayashi wrote:Dothan appears to have slightly reduced performance compared to A64 alongside with much reduced heat*.
When you bring undervolting into play both chips produce very little heat. I really don't see Dothan as an option, it's expensive and offers little choice in the way of motherboards.
sthayashi wrote:No one got fired for buying WIntel.
Changing a companies I.T infrastructure to Linux from windows would probably get you fired. Changing to AMD would make no difference, the company aren’t going to suddenly find all there printers don't work because they brought AMD. All the companies staff aren’t going to need retraining.
Intel can't rely on real obstacles to change like Microsoft can. Intel relies on corporate ignorance and Dell to keep their market share.
Last edited by Bitter Jitter on Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by sthayashi » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:52 am

Bitter Jitter wrote:When you bring undervolting into play both chips produce very little heat. I really don't see Dothan as an option, it's expensive and offers little choice in the way of motherboards.
Even at full load? If we want throw in other factors, we can make the AMD selection look almost as limited.
Bitter Jitter wrote:
sthayashi wrote:No one got fired for buying WIntel.
Changing to AMD would make no difference, the company aren’t going to suddenly find all there printers don't work because they brought AMD.
You're telling me that if your company has gone with Intel in the past and you were decided that they should go with AMD now, that some ignorant boss/executive won't blame you for every single crash that happens?

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Post by meglamaniac » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:06 am

Hey who're you accusing of being unstable?
My XP2000+ runs at 67C idle/73C load (yes i know it's high) and is incredibly stable...

:)

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:22 am

sthayashi wrote:You're telling me that if your company has gone with Intel in the past and you were decided that they should go with AMD now, that some ignorant boss/executive won't blame you for every single crash that happens?
Then you show him the massive savings that you have made for the company and the statistics that in fact the number of computer crashes is around the same as when Intels were installed.

Also you wouldn't go for a massive role out of computers without conducting trials and gathering statistics of reliability first.

Even the most ignorant boss won't argue if your making savings for the company. Companies can't afford to act in the manner you describe, they simply get over taken by there competitors.

Fear of the past holds back progress, a change from AMD to Intel is a small change compared to an operating system change.

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Post by sgtpokey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:28 am

Like sthayashi said:
Dothan appears to have slightly reduced performance compared to A64 alongside with much reduced heat*. This allows us to do things with Dothan that we never would have thought about doing with a PC-class processor before
And that, to me is the only reason to think about an Intel Pentium M. The real comparison when talking about "thinking outside the big box" is a completely fanless Via system versus a completely fanless Pentium M or Celeron M system (either undervolted to get that way or using the ULV versions of the chips).

An undervolted Athlon 64 or Mobile Barton can *sometimes* get to the fanless cpu state, but a completely fanless system is a bit harder. Bottom line is the thermal power you are trying to tame via underclocking/undervolting is a larger mountain to descend from versus the Pentium M. I had once thought I had successfully created a fanless Mobile Barton HTPC system, but have since re-added one fan to the system (120mm psu).

So the question for me always is: Is there something I can do with a zippy fanless system that I can't do normally with either a really slow fanless via system, or an undervolted but fanned) A64/Mobile Barton system? If the answer is yes, then the second question is: is it worth the price premium?

I'd love to build a completely fanless HTPC/file server. But so far I can't justify any extra $ going to such a product when I have a perfectly fine 1 fan HTPC file server.

I'm also pretty sure that the even smaller form factors that become possible with fanless systems will open up new ideas down the road...

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:51 am

sthayashi wrote:Even at full load? If we want throw in other factors, we can make the AMD selection look almost as limited.
The selection of MATX boards maybe limited but they are around half the price of the two avaliable pentium M boards.

I'm sure at full load with a 90nm CPU and a small underclock / undervolt you could achieve 20w or lower which makes it nearly as good as a Pentium.


The reason why companies aren't taking to AMD in large quantities is because they look into the past at all the companies that went bankrupt because they didn't choose IBM. PC's have matured at lot since then, the risk is nowhere near as great. I find it unlikely that choosing AMD over Intel would result in a company going bankrupt.

IT departments don't benefit from the change so they don't bother investing the time to explore new ideas. It's like science, most of the great scientific discovers happened before the 1960. Alot of on going projects are safe project based on ideas which were discovered a long time ago. Not many scientists are taking the risks they once did. Why? because risk is the sure fire way to get no funding.

Executive have know idea what the difference is between AMD and Intel all they know is they have been using Intel for a long time. That’s not to say they couldn't be sold the idea that changing would bring benefits but that would require more work on the IT consultants side.
Last edited by Bitter Jitter on Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rusty075 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:52 am

Taking this even further OT.....

The big issue preventing big companies from switching from Intel to AMD isn't the processors at all, its the fact that making that switch would almost always require a switch in vendor. If Dell sold AMD boxes alongside Intel boxes, you would see much more fluidity in that market.

Thats why AMD wants into Dell so badly, and why Intel will blackmail Dell to the very end to make sure that doesn't happen.

My company is relatively tiny; we have 25-30 machines. When it comes time to replace/upgrade one, there's no discussion about where its coming from; it'll be a middle-of-the-road Dell, just like the rest. Even for the few of us with the clout to cherry-pick their configurations only get the Dell parts bin to choose from. (I ended up with a Prescott and Quadro :wink: )

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:12 am

Dell is pretty much the key, from a home use persctive there is no way i would buy a Dell. I hand pick parts and put it together myself, there is no way a business would do that because they wouldn't have the support which Dell provides.
Big companies see Dell as a big, cheap supplier of PC's which isn't going to go bankrupt tomorrow and stop giving support to their computers. If Dell changed all it's line up to AMD tomorrow, most companies would trust Dell's decision and carry on buying.

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Post by MikeC » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:13 am

Getting back on topic, the Tech Report's review of a bunch of new Intel CPUs including the 600 series has some sharp insights in their conclusions:
The truth is that all of the new capabilities in this processor—dynamic power management, NX bit protection, 64-bit extensions, and better performance than the Pentium 4 500 series—were available in the first Athlon 64 processors that debuted in September 2003. AMD vaulted so far out ahead of Intel in terms of technology and performance that it's taken quite a while for Intel to catch up.

Fortunately for Intel, AMD hasn't done much since the Athlon 64's debut but monkey with cache sizes, add another memory channel, and ratchet up clock speeds a couple of notches. The 600 series is getting closer to the Athlon 64 in terms of overall attractiveness, and AMD needs to answer in order to retain the lead. In fact, if you don't care about playing games on your PC, the Pentium 4 600 series is as good a choice as any. The overall WorldBench scores illustrate the general parity between Intel and AMD offerings at each price point. Given Intel's dominance at the big PC makers, the 600 series is probably as good as it needs to be in order to become a sales success.

One thing that threatens that success is the funky model numbering and pricing mix that Intel has chosen to present to the hapless consumer.

Actually, I take that back. Hap or no hap, it's confusing.

If you'll recall from the beginning of this article, the Pentium 4 550J is priced just five dollars below the P4 640. Overall, the performance race between the two would have to go to the 550J, because 200MHz of clock speed is worth more than the move from 1MB of L2 cache to 2MB. The 550J lacks SpeedStep, but with the C1E halt state, that's quite arguably a moot point. So the decision between the two comes down to this, I suppose: do you want slightly higher performance in 32-bit apps or, for five bucks more, 64-bit capabilities? Ask that of Joe Schmoe and he'll deck you.

I suppose Intel will rely on PC makers to package up the 600 series and make it all work, but the strategy, on the face of it, is confusing. Surely the larger model number with the bigger cache and 64-bit extensions will sell best. Unless consumers buy primarily based on MHz. Is Intel experimenting a little here? Sure seems like it.

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Post by sthayashi » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:15 am

meglamaniac wrote:Hey who're you accusing of being unstable?
My XP2000+ runs at 67C idle/73C load (yes i know it's high) and is incredibly stable...
I'm not accusing anyone of instability. Heck, I'm the AMD-boy among my friends (they fact that they WORK at Intel might have something to do with that though). But when some buggy Tcl/Tk crashes all the time, and one of the recent changes was a switch to AMD, who do you think might take some of the blame?
Bitter Jitter wrote:Even the most ignorant boss won't argue if your making savings for the company. Companies can't afford to act in the manner you describe, they simply get over taken by there competitors.
Yes they would and yes they have. I never said that stupid bosses haven't brought down companies. Hell, look at HP.
Bitter Jitter wrote:I'm sure at full load with a 90nm CPU and a small underclock / undervolt you could achieve 20w or lower which makes it nearly as good as a Pentium.
I was waiting for the 90nm challenge. Now find me a uATX Socket-939 that is undervoltable and performs as well as the Dothan. Actually, that's a serious request, because that motherboard probably will make me change my plans to go with Dothan.

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Post by liquid_celica » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:24 am

good point rusty.

i've currently have a p4, my second one in less then 6 months. It was my first rig with a p4. Intel simply markets themselves very well. They've establish themselves as "THE Chip maker." Much of the world's population are unaware of the inner workings of the computer but are familiar with the brand name "Intel."

The reason for AMD's growth in the intel dominated world is the US and Europe's intrigue in the world of computers. Fact. roughly less than 45 percent of the world own's a household computer, yet in the US alone, about 84% of the nation has at least one computer in their homes. Within those 84%, only a small percentage can be considered a PC enthusiest. So when it comes down to it....Intel's name sells the chip and not its performance.
Last edited by liquid_celica on Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by niels007 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:33 am

With high quality fans like the Nexus 120mm I see no benifit of a fanless pc over a much cheaper AMD64 system with two 400rpm fans (psu and cpu). In either case the harddisk will most likely make the most noise unless suspended and damped very efficiently.

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:46 am

If the board supports cool n quiet then it supports undervolting / underclocking, well through windows atleast.
I don't want to say 'buy this board' because i don't have first hand experience. What sort of speed do you want?

Socket 939 only has one mATX board avaliable but there is a vast selection for socket 754.
Prices from Newegg.
An example of what i would consider to be evenly matched systems

AMD
Sempron 3100+ 90nm = $118
Asus K8S-MX = $78
Total = $196

Intel
Pentium M 725 1.6Ghz = $215
DFI 855GME-MGF = $229
Total = $444
sthayashi wrote:But when some buggy Tcl/Tk crashes all the time, and one of the recent changes was a switch to AMD, who do you think might take some of the blame?
I see your point, its easy to blame the thing that has changed.

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Post by sgtpokey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:56 am

With high quality fans like the Nexus 120mm I see no benifit of a fanless pc over a much cheaper AMD64 system with two 400rpm fans (psu and cpu).
I can see one (or two)
* Maintenance: No fans = less dust buildup. Less Maintenance = a more legitimate home theatre "appliance" = more Wife friendly.
* Safety/24 hour operation, whether or not this is legitimate, It's something I think about (or my wife does rather): If I have my file server on 24 hours a day, what happens when no one is home? If a fan dies and the machine overheats AND somehow any cpu sensor doesn't trigger OR it triggers too late AND some other bad thing happens AND my house burns down... well, my wife won't be happy. Sure there are a lot of things to worry about. She/I focuses on this one.

Ideally, I'd like a complete pc with no moving parts and doesn't act like a heating unit. Since that ideal is not available now I can at least examine fanless pc's with only the HD having mechanically moving parts.

* PS off topic, silencing a hard drive completely isn't that hard to do once you get it out of the case. I have mine connected via external SATA (proprieteray design by High-Point) and enclosed and soundproofed in a custom contraption made from a Pottery Barn wooden box (more influences from the wife). The whole thing sits "stealthed" in a row of pottery barn boxes used to store dvds in in the TV Case.

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Re: Intel throws down the gauntlet

Post by Pipslo » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:59 am

Green Shoes wrote:Is anyone up to the challenge?

Anand recently got the power draw numbers up on the new 6xx series (I assume they're fairly accurate, not sure of their methodology), as seen here. The newest EE draws an astounding 233W at full load! :shock: I was hoping that the 6xx series would draw a little less power than their 5xx cousins, since Intel's had a little longer to get it right, but they're at least a few watts higher at every level.

Now, not being a fanboy of either AMD or Intel (I own 3 comps: PIII, dual MP, and G4, cover all the bases), this makes me a little sad; I think competition is always good and these new processors are still getting beat by AMD in most benchmarks. But I digress. :oops:

It seems that nobody on this forum would try to cool a beast like that (not to mention the higher-wattage power supply that it and a beefy VGA card would require). I like the Dothans but it seems silly to shell out 2x the amount of money for mobo & CPU than for AMD. Is anyone still sticking with Intel out there? And is anyone able to silence these suckers?

(mods, feel free to move this if you feel it belongs elsewhere)
I will get a Dell Dimension XPS with the new P4 EE 3,73GHz cpu in it. I'm getting it as a deal from my employer and will get it really cheap, otherwise I would never ordered it.
When I ordered it I thought the EE version would have the EIST instruction but as the reviews now tell me it doesn't I feel like I'll get a heatbomb in my apartment within the next 4-6 weeks.

I hope the XPS will be reasonably quiet, otherwise this cheap deal will end up kind of expensive since I have to buy a new MB, PSU and case...

I keep my fingers crossed...

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Post by Bitter Jitter » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:23 am

sgtpokey wrote:I can see one (or two)
* Maintenance: No fans = less dust buildup. Less Maintenance = a more legitimate home theatre "appliance" = more Wife friendly.
* Safety/24 hour operation, whether or not this is legitimate, It's something I think about (or my wife does rather): If I have my file server on 24 hours a day, what happens when no one is home? If a fan dies and the machine overheats AND somehow any cpu sensor doesn't trigger OR it triggers too late AND some other bad thing happens AND my house burns down... well, my wife won't be happy. Sure there are a lot of things to worry about. She/I focuses on this one.
I doubt a processor at 85c would be hot enough to start a fire. There's more chance that your PSU will spark and start a fire.
Besides you can get software to shutdown the computer before it gets as high as that. If the fan fails the BIOS would be able to shut the computer down.
Nexus are also high quality fans and are unlikely to die for a number of years use.

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Post by sthayashi » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:30 am

liquid_celica wrote:It was my first rig with a p4. Intel simply markets themselves very well. They've establish themselves as "THE Chip maker." Much of the world's population are unaware of the inner workings of the computer but are familiar with the brand name "Intel."
It's not just the name Intel that sells. "Pentium 4" sells. Even "Athlon" sells. Why do you think both companies have gone through different sockets and cores and still keep the same name. We've had Athlon in our vocabularies since 1999, and Pentium 4 since 2000. Heck, we've had the word 'Pentium' in our vocabularies for close to about 10 years now.

BTW, did you just call me Ralf? Or was it Rusty?

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Post by sgtpokey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:48 am

BitterJitter,

Yes I know that. As I alluded, a whole host of things would have to go wrong for something bad to happen.

On the flip side, I have seen cpus and psus "blow up" due to a failed temp sensor. The chances of that leading to a "series of unfortunate events" may be small but you never know.

So in the spirit of "keeping it simple", I identify a system that can keep itself cool without fans safer than a system that relies on another component to keep itself cool. That way you reduce the complexity of the system; reducing the failure points by one subsystem.

I've switched from talking about not just safety but overall 24/7 operation in that paragraph. Getting back solely to safety:

The problem is there is no good data for this stuff that I've found (ie. server use in a home vs safety concerns). From my viewpoint, sometimes bad stuff happens outside of tested parameters. So even though the design and thermals says it's safe, it may not be given some random outside factor unknown at the time. So again I figure if you reduce the complexity of the system, you cut down on the random bad things that can happen.

And yes, there are a whole lot of other things to worry about that I don't worry about and probably never will. Nobody said people were 100% rational.

Otherwise we'd be computers that happen to run cool and sometimes quiet!

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Post by Green Shoes » Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:15 am

Wow, this post got a lot of traction. :D
sthayashi wrote: It's not just the name Intel that sells. "Pentium 4" sells. Even "Athlon" sells. Why do you think both companies have gone through different sockets and cores and still keep the same name. We've had Athlon in our vocabularies since 1999, and Pentium 4 since 2000. Heck, we've had the word 'Pentium' in our vocabularies for close to about 10 years now.
So true. Thanks to the blue man group and the like, this is why so many people use Intel b/c they don't know anything else. I think AMD is making some headway, though; you used to be able to brows the entire comp. section at best buy and not see a single AMD CPU....last time I checked, the split was close to 50/50. AMD also came out with that mac mini sort of thing to be sold overseas, that'll probably help out in Asia....
sgtpokey wrote:So in the spirit of "keeping it simple", I identify a system that can keep itself cool without fans safer than a system that relies on another component to keep itself cool. That way you reduce the complexity of the system; reducing the failure points by one subsystem.
As far as this goes, the very small percentage of people running servers out of their own home can argue about Dothan/AMD Winny 90nm 'till they're blue in the face....but I think for Joe sixpack it's moot. He's going with a mac mini, 'cause let's fact it it's just cool. Speaking of Joe sixpack....
sgtpokey wrote:Nobody said people were 100% rational.
So true, man, so true. :roll:

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Post by scotty6435 » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:05 pm

No doulbt that a fanless system has less chance of fan failure but I'd say that overall failure is probably the same. Fanless systems are generally a lot hotter than fan cooled ones (even 'silent' machines) so the chance of failure is kore likely. Especially items such as HDDs & MOSFETS. The fact is that if both your fans and temp probes die then you're computer's in abad state and needs better maintenance. 99.999% of PCs will shut down when the temp exceeds max threshold whether it be software or BIOS controlling it.

Intel have had a MASSIVE advantage in recent years because they are by far the most well known chip manufacturer in the world. Companies have been, up until now, been reluctant to buy anything else or been able to. Dell, amongst others, don't sell AMD which represents not only a large market share but also significant reputation. I'm sure if AMD had intel's place, they yould completely dominate with the latest line-up and probably kill them if the dual core athlons will be good.

P4s and athlons each have their advantages, I'm probably a fan of AMD (although I have 5 pentium systems to 1 AMD) because they're:

Cheaper,
Runs cooler,
Better for gaming,
Unlockable multis :D (well, some of them)

The facts speak for themselves, even though Intel holds most of the cards, AMD is still gaining massive ground on them. If they don't do something spectacular soon, they're going doooowwwnnnn!!! (YESS!!!)

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Post by Tibors » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:43 pm

scotty6435 wrote:The facts speak for themselves, even though Intel holds most of the cards, AMD is still gaining massive ground on them. If they don't do something spectacular soon, they're going doooowwwnnnn!!! (YESS!!!)
According to Intel's roadmap there will be dual core Pentiums in the affordable pricerange next quarter. According to AMD's roadmap there will be a freaking expensive dual core Athlon (in the FX range) later this year. And the affordable dual cores will only be availlable in the first half of next year.

Now the dual core Pentiums will probably be searing hot, but a large part of the market doesn't really care about that. In june/july, that is the next time I'll have enough money for a new machine, I'd rather buy a cool AMD64 machine. But if I can get double the Folding power for the same money, then I might be tempted to go for the challenge of cooling that Pentium silently.

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Post by sgtpokey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:52 pm

Ha Ha,

I don't know if anyone (me included) has been able to stay 100% on topic... then again, what WAS the topic? Was it:
1) "Does anyone want to even try to silently cool the 600 series Prescotts?"
or was it
2) "Is there a reason to buy a desktop Dothan setup for 2x the price of an A64 setup?"

My answers, if it got lost in the digressions:

1. No, why bother, since from a traditional dekstop view, the A64 kicks it's butt no matter the criteria.
2. No good reason unless for some reason you HIGHLY value a TDP 10-15ish watts lower than an mobile A64 (give or take final real-world test numbers)

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Post by sthayashi » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:13 pm

sgtpokey wrote:1) "Does anyone want to even try to silently cool the 600 series Prescotts?"
[...]
1. No, why bother, since from a traditional dekstop view, the A64 kicks it's butt no matter the criteria.
No, but you know what? 6-12 months from now, I'll bet you at least one person will ask here, "Help me silence my computer. My specs are Pentium 4 640......"
We can't always tell them, "Go buy an Athlon 64." This actually happened close to the first time an original Prescott owner came to this board.

We, as individuals, don't have to want to silently cool a 6xx Prescott. We, as members of SPCR, should learn how to do so though.

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Post by Green Shoes » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:26 pm

sgtpokey wrote:I don't know if anyone (me included) has been able to stay 100% on topic... then again, what WAS the topic? Was it:
1) "Does anyone want to even try to silently cool the 600 series Prescotts?"
or was it
2) "Is there a reason to buy a desktop Dothan setup for 2x the price of an A64 setup?"
I think it was more along the lines of #1, although it was more just questioning if there is any Intel at all in the future for the silent types. Forgive me for my late-night ramblings :oops: , I was just listing the arguments that I can see against Intel (for us, not for the average user), being that

1. the 6xx is too hot

2. Pentium M is just too rare (desktop mobo-wise) and too friggin' expensive

of course, this whole battleground may very well change in 6 months with the advent of dual core (although I'm not holding my breath).

That being said, the tangent that we flew off on was pretty amusing, so no complaints. Perhaps we should make that a poll question, I think it'd be interesting. "Do you take the 90 nm Winnys for pricing and games, or Dothans for the extra 20-30W heat headroom?" I know what I'd vote for.

sgtpokey
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Post by sgtpokey » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:40 pm

We, as individuals, don't have to want to silently cool a 6xx Prescott. We, as members of SPCR, should learn how to do so though.
Well said!

NeilBlanchard
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Post by NeilBlanchard » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:21 pm

Hello:

While it is true that the 600 Series P4 at idle is as good or slightly better than many Athlon 64 models -- it's the numbers under load where the Athlon still pulls ahead:

Image
(from Tech Report)

Take special notice of the Athlon 64 3500+ which is the fastest .09um Athlon 64 right now vs the 3.4gHz P4 650: 155watts vs 216watts ! That's a 39% difference folks! One wonders what a little undervolting might yield?
Last edited by NeilBlanchard on Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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