XBox360 Dissected

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:32 pm

Although not particularly silence-based (sort of, it IS kind of a computer, after all...), Anandtech has released a picture-based dissection guide for the XBox360. Needless to say, the design is very interesting.

http://www.anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.aspx?i=2610

Post by **Rusty075** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:28 am

It actually shares some design features that get talked here:

-External fanless PSU.
-Tower heatsink with heatpipes.
-Case fans ducted to CPU heatsink.

Low noise was certainly a design criteria, although I haven't seen anyone comment on how successfully they achieved that. Perhaps we have some "Help me silence my 360" threads in our future?

IdontexistM8 · Post by **IdontexistM8** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:10 pm

Hmm it's those fans that are key...unless my eyes are off they look like a one piece plastic section (bar the blades).

Two fans, some superglue and cable ties could be the order of the day

Of course I'll be waiting for the first mod chip to make an appearance.

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:06 pm

It would be hard to judge how much cfm is required if you do a fan swap since you can't get temperature readings easily.

Another thing in addition to Rusty's list: 2.5" Samsung SATA notebook HDD

acaurora · Post by **acaurora** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:10 pm

stromgald wrote:Another thing in addition to Rusty's list: 2.5" Samsung SATA notebook HDD

To add to MY list: Hitachi 7K100 Travelstar 100 GB > Samsung SATA 2.5" ;P... 7200 RPM for the win!! *drools*

Rusty075 wrote:It actually shares some design features that get talked here:

-External fanless PSU.
-Tower heatsink with heatpipes.
-Case fans ducted to CPU heatsink.

Low noise was certainly a design criteria, although I haven't seen anyone comment on how successfully they achieved that. Perhaps we have some "Help me silence my 360" threads in our future?

To reflect upon that, I am a little curious as to how cooling will be effected based upon the orientation of the device. Vertically, I'm assuming the fans are for exhaust, so it would suck air in through the bottom (Microsoft has these XBox plastic stands that hold the Xbox360 and like, 10 games, probably has vents on the bottom), through both the CPU/GPU, and then out. BUt then how would it work if you had it horizontally? just from both sides, i guess? I think it's kind of cramped inside and wonder how would airflow work in that... with all the components pretty much making contact with each other in the middle...

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:18 pm

Joystiq has a brief post on Xbox 360 noise. Doesn't look great. And the external power supply is not fanless.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:20 am

Yikes

The old, fat PS2 is LOUD, too loud to watch any movies on, now if the PS2 is this loud and the xbox360 is louder.... they have shot themself in the foot if they want this machine to be a "media center" of some kind.

Judging fromt eh anandtech pics, both the cpu and gpu heatsinks could be alot bigger, especially the gpu heatsink.. But i guess fans are cheaper than aluminium and some R&D.

Ill have to wait until i actually hear one untill i pass my final judgement.. Its supposed to slow down the dvd-drive and fans while watching dvds at least..

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:55 am

Apparently it does turn down the fans when you're playing DVDs.

nici · Post by **nici** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:52 am

Wraith wrote:Apparently it does turn down the fans when you're playing DVDs.

Apparently so, quoting myself

It remains to be seen, well heard, how quiet it will be during DVD playback. By SPCR standadrds it will still probably be too loud.. I dont use a console for DVDs anyway, you can get a cheap DVD player for the same price as the xbox controller for fooks sake

And its silent and has better functions..

nici wrote: Ill have to wait until i actually hear one untill i pass my final judgement.. Its supposed to slow down the dvd-drive and fans while watching dvds at least..

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:46 am

Oops, I did miss the last line in that post. Some users have found that it actually does do that when playing DVDs. Someone on Joystiq gave their impression:

I disagree with it being too loud to watch DVDs. I enjoyed watching 2 dvd's on it so far and it's pretty near me. The fan and drive slow down so it's not much noise (compared to say, when you're playing Kameo wherein the drive is constantly seeking and the 3 cores are being pushed). Of course YMMV regarding tolerable noise.
I could never watch a DVD with Xbox 1 despite buying the remote since it's too loud. I can do it with Xbox 360.

nici · Post by **nici** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:39 am

Yeah i also read the comments on Joystiq, but as he/she said

Of course YMMV regarding tolerable noise.

So we know its quieter than the previous xbox, but how quiet it actually is remaíns to be seen

Im not particularly interested anyway, i dont have a HDTV so i wont that much better graphics than with the old box, plus i have a lot of games for the old one, and i have a dvd-player to watch movies on so..

Bruce Ballslap · Post by **Bruce Ballslap** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:25 pm

nici wrote:Judging fromt eh anandtech pics, both the cpu and gpu heatsinks could be alot bigger, especially the gpu heatsink.. But i guess fans are cheaper than aluminium and some R&D.

Well, I doubt they're that dumb at Microsoft. It's clearly a definite decision to use the ultralow-profile GPU heatsink since DVD-drive takes a lot of that vertical space. Slim drives would have simply cost too much.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:21 pm

Does anyone know what size the fans are? Like many people I found the stock fan on my Xbox 1 too loud and buzzy, so I managed to squeeze an 80mm Panaflo in there and it is now great for movies.

But as the 360 is smaller I'm guessing there wouldn't be any way of getting 80mm fans in there (unless they are mounted on the outside perhaps). So modding it for silence will be a challenge if the stock fans are too noisy.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:18 pm

I'd really like to see someone tear that thing apart and put it in a computer case... somehow. I don't see much benefit to this, but it'd be cool. Watercooling for quiet?

Bruce Ballslap · Post by **Bruce Ballslap** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:19 am

Badger wrote:I'd really like to see someone tear that thing apart and put it in a computer case... somehow. I don't see much benefit to this, but it'd be cool. Watercooling for quiet?

Yes that is an interesting idea. And I even see some beneficial aspects. One could mount the insides into an HTPC-case and stack it between other hifi equipment. And quieter cooling is naturally a great benefit.

Can someone provide me with a link to an Xbox 1 put into a HTPC case? It must have been done and a guide/gallery must exist. Yes, google's there, but maybe someone could recommend a quality-link straight away.

Bruce Ballslap · Post by **Bruce Ballslap** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:22 am

.. and can't wait for the first mod-chips to arrive. It's a pity though there's no x86 processor architecture anymore.. But maybe Mac-coders could do homebrew software relatively easily? I'm not a coder, so I really dont know.

nici · Post by **nici** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:38 am

Bruce Ballslap wrote:
nici wrote:Judging fromt eh anandtech pics, both the cpu and gpu heatsinks could be alot bigger, especially the gpu heatsink.. But i guess fans are cheaper than aluminium and some R&D.
Well, I doubt they're that dumb at Microsoft. It's clearly a definite decision to use the ultralow-profile GPU heatsink since DVD-drive takes a lot of that vertical space. Slim drives would have simply cost too much.

Im not saying they are stupid, but i would guess low noise is pretty low on the list of things the 360 has to manage. Lower noise/cheaper dvd drive, yeah well save a few million by putting a low profile heatsink and use a normal drive..

kloppe · Post by **kloppe** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:02 pm

Bruce Ballslap wrote:
Badger wrote:I'd really like to see someone tear that thing apart and put it in a computer case... somehow. I don't see much benefit to this, but it'd be cool. Watercooling for quiet?
Yes that is an interesting idea. And I even see some beneficial aspects. One could mount the insides into an HTPC-case and stack it between other hifi equipment. And quieter cooling is naturally a great benefit.

Can someone provide me with a link to an Xbox 1 put into a HTPC case? It must have been done and a guide/gallery must exist. Yes, google's there, but maybe someone could recommend a quality-link straight away.

Here's one. The guide's in Swedish, but it has lots of pretty pictures.

pangit · Post by **pangit** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:43 pm

Bruce Ballslap wrote:.. and can't wait for the first mod-chips to arrive. It's a pity though there's no x86 processor architecture anymore.. But maybe Mac-coders could do homebrew software relatively easily? I'm not a coder, so I really dont know.

From what I hear Microsoft have made it a lot more difficult to hack, with lots of security features hard coded into the chips. So although nobody has said it can't be done, it won't be anything like as easy as chipping the Xbox1 or PS2.

I really hope they can crack it soon, as I would love to see an HD version of XBox Media Centre for the 360 - that would be reason enough to buy it alone! (as it was for the Xbox1 - I never play games on mine, just use it as a media centre!)

Bruce Ballslap · Post by **Bruce Ballslap** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:19 pm

pangit wrote:From what I hear Microsoft have made it a lot more difficult to hack, with lots of security features hard coded into the chips. So although nobody has said it can't be done, it won't be anything like as easy as chipping the Xbox1 or PS2.

It's always the same thing with all DRMs. They're all supppose to be groundbreaking and much MUCH more difficult to break than previous ones. Which one has kept it's pompous promises?

Maybe a good recent example is Sony PSP. It is fresh technology and knowing Sony's history, they must've put a great deal of R&D in security features. I wouldnt say it stayed intact for long.

iowastate89 · Post by **iowastate89** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:57 am

Well I was one of the lucky few to get a Premium system last night.

Confirmed : For me, it is definitely loud! (Esp comparing to my much more quiet PC created with the help from this site)

It seems like the DVD is the culprit (I can live with the noise of the main unit when you are navigating the console, setting up xbox live etc). It is constantly spinning/noisy during gameply, but gets better when playing DVDs for what it's worth.

Interesting thread here:
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000503068848/#comments

I am comfortable hacking my PC to lower the noise, but not this beast. Seems like a great business opportunity for somebody out there : Send in your xbox 360 for a "quiet overhaul"!

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:32 pm

eh. sux.

they could have made it near silent, or at least darn quiet. what a shame. It should be now hacked and moded till it dies.

consoles suck. down with them.

in two months you can make an equally as good gaming system for the 800 bux, in a year when people afford these better, you can get the same vid card in the machine in crossfire mode handling 1600x1200 with 4 AA, etc etc.

but the worst part is silence. that is REALLY easy for a company like m$ to do. could have tossed in 3 panaflo 80's on max speed with big copper sinks, guess not though.

could have done water cooling self sealed alcohol system in copper. nah. that would be cool.

twylight777 · Post by **twylight777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:15 am

2nd confirm.

This is the LOUDEST piece of gear I own. Louder than stock ps2 and xbox...louder than my first gen Dell XPS.

I use this site to build very quiet high end rigs - not silent, but quiet enough that you cant tell its on unless there is a status light.

The xbox 360 is stunning loud - someone screwed up bad...I cant tell if its fan or dvd noise - I think fan cause its always on during game play.

Its not even a nice loud like a stock 7800gtx that sound like a swoossh - this is a horrible noticeable loud - and its behind glass in my HT.

It might just be a engineering thing - turn the fans on max!

I cant believe they are billing this as a media hub at these volumes.

Bruce Ballslap · Post by **Bruce Ballslap** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:59 am

That's sad.. How can they screw up like that.

Maybe it's the ultralow profile GPU heatsink that requires such fearsome blowing power from the fans? I'm assuming the fans are 60mm in diameter?

Someone should port the insides into an HTPC case and maybe replace the GPU heatsink and redesign the ducting for the new case. Would be an interesting article if nothing else.

twylight777 · Post by **twylight777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:59 pm

ill play a dvd on it tonight...not that I care I have high end denon dvd player...but maybe its only during game play.

Slaugh · Post by **Slaugh** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:38 pm

I just found this page about the Xbox 360! It's a brutal way to dissect a Xbox 360!

twylight777 · Post by **twylight777** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:28 pm

omg its the dvd player - it never spins down during gameplay...so imagine that PC next to your foot revving the DVD drive all night long =/!

There is certainly fan noise but its acceptable - not SPR level, but not crazy.

mathias · Post by **mathias** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:22 pm

Somehow, the power supplies in these things are overheating now. Imagine how bad that's going te get when summer comes.

Sounds to me like this is a very hot running system. I think there's a good chance that units themselves will be having heat problems, once they fill with dust.

Slaugh · Post by **Slaugh** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:36 am

This is from eWeek:

Xbox 360 Crashes, Defects Reported

[...]
But others are posting a plethoral of problems with their brand-new 360s, from game crashes to hard drives that simply don't work.

One reasonable gamer lays it out like this: "Between my friends and I, we bought six machines at the Zero Hour event. Of the six, my machine has a dead hard drive, another machine is working but is rather flaky (seen some strange behavior—the drive may also be scratching discs, as my friend's copy of Condemned is now unplayably scratched, but we don't know if the drive caused it—the machine has also had problems booting games and being turned off...), one seems to be good, and I haven't heard yet about the status of the other three."

[...]
a poster called "Jsgongwon" on the Xbox-Scene forums who included pictures of his crash, which apparently happened repeatedly during Project Gotham Racing 3.

"So far haven't been able to play one track without crashing ... also got this crashing on Xbox Live screen and on startup too ..." he writes.

The Xbox 360 seems to be an unfinished, untested and rushed product!

twylight777 · Post by **twylight777** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:21 am

actually it totally owns...just loud...

its a blast - most of the problem reports are just sony fanboi lies - it happened when the psp came out - all the ds fanbois made up defects - no one actually had them or it was like one person in the whole world...people are wierd with platform loyality.

I just wish it was quieter.