Carbon-Fibre Computer Case

The forum for non-component-related silent pc discussions.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Carbon-Fibre Computer Case

Post by andyb » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:56 pm

Showed at CES.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/439/1/

How many more will we see this year, and how many if any will be designed for the quiet/silent computing sector.

I understand that carbon-fibre has excelent sound properties, this should be something to look out for in the future, and once a suitably designed case turns up SPCR will jump on it for a review.


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

walle
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:52 am

Post by walle » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:56 pm

The combination in-between aluminium and carbon-fibre seems interesting, weight kept to a minimum whilst sound properties is bound to be favourable. Price is another matter though; I fear we have to retreat to our wigwams for mental preparations, including zipping some herbal tea whilst figuring out how to convince the girlfriend the benefits of combined aluminium and carbon-fibre…

andyb, thank you for sharing (thumps up)

ultrachrome
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by ultrachrome » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:55 pm

I wonder if it is really any lighter than an aluminum case. But who would want to drag around a case that big?

They're probably better served putting wheels and a collapsible handle on it since it's already the size of a suitcase.

In the world of bikes, aluminum frames routinely weigh the same or less than all but the most esoteric carbon fiber frames.

I think its marketeering at work.

Now if this had a monocoque chassis and some drive vibration controls...

walle
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:52 am

Post by walle » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:20 pm

ultrachrome wrote:I wonder if it is really any lighter than an aluminum case
I was more interested in improved sound properties. That said; carbon-fibre is in-between 30 – 50% lighter then aluminium (depending on its implementation) so weight should therefore be sligthly reduced.
ultrachrome wrote:I think its marketeering at work
.
bling factor increases sales ; I did mention a purchase?
ultrachrome wrote:Now if this had a monocoque chassis and some drive vibration controls...
.
Ah, I miss the summer time. Racing with my 999 with its tubular steel trellis frame...

Note:

I do get your point as I understand your reservations. But being excessive (at times) brings a certain spice and colour to the everyday life; it would become darn boring otherwise.

nici
Posts: 3011
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele

Post by nici » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:08 am

What a total disappointment. Honestly. Im almost offended. I was expecting something beautiful and classy, and its just a normal full tower which is partly made aout of carbon fibre. yay. whoo.

It will probably be heavier than an aluminium case, CF might be lighter than aluminium at the same thickness but... i guess we will see later. To me it looks like they had to trim off all the excess material from the drive bays just to get the weight down. Who wants to carry a full tower to a LAN Party anyway?(Legit talks about lan parties and it's light weight)

Bike frames for an example, they are made out of aluminium, carbon fibre, steel, titanium and magnesium, the lightest frames made out of each material are about the same weight, they just look very different because of different tube sizes and wall thickness. This does nto have anything to do with a pc case though.

It also has those horrible side vents.

I like the idea of a CF case, i don't like how they did it. They just used CF in the large, flat areas. Even i can make flat, glossy CF in me garage. I just need the mat and a large piece of flat glass.

This is another of those products that could have been great.

nightmorph
Posts: 316
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:07 am

Post by nightmorph » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:15 am

It's not just pointless, it's over-the-top pointless.

But what do you expect from the company that brought you the 2-kilowatt PSU? :roll:

HammerSandwich
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:21 pm
Location: 15143, USA
Contact:

Post by HammerSandwich » Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:42 am

Yeah, it's nothing exciting. But is anyone actually surprised that the first "CF case" is aimed at the bling/gamer market?

walle
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:52 am

Post by walle » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:32 am

nightmorph wrote:But what do you expect from the company that brought you the 2-kilowatt PSU?
As much as I expect from the company that brought us the nine hundred and earth watts I guess


Point any given company is bound to produce overblown "garbage" at one time or another, exceptions are few.

Lesson never automatically judge a product as shite, ready for the bin on the basis of previous mistakes.

That said;

I am personally looking forward to this chassis; I think its fun that they try something else that reaches beyond the perverted implementation of colourful 120mm fans and meshed grills that cover close to the entire chassis. In terms of its “poorâ€

nici
Posts: 3011
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele

Post by nici » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:06 am

If they are going to make a carbon fibre case, they could at least make it look more interesting than a full tower from ten years ago. Now it's just like replacing every body panel on a Honda with carbon fibre, sure it's a nice car but it does not make me go ooh. More like blah.

As for looks, i still have not found any case that i would like. I guess a computer case is ugly by nature, and there is nothing i can do about it. Except make my own.

ultrachrome
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by ultrachrome » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:10 am

walle wrote: Point any given company is bound to produce overblown "garbage" at one time or another, exceptions are few.

Lesson never automatically judge a product as shite, ready for the bin on the basis of previous mistakes.
I don't think these are knee-jerk responses. What is innovative about this case?

Admittedly it's hard to look at this case as anything more than a cliche with that 80mm side fan.

|Romeo|
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:36 pm
Location: UK

Post by |Romeo| » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:13 pm

Hmmm, Carbon Fiber panels on an Aluminium frame attached using what appear to be Aluminium fasteners. This could turn out to be be rather amusing :lol:

Whilst it's true that in aerospace carbon composites are becoming increasingly common, it is very uncommon to find them attached using Aluminium fasteners -it sets up a galvanic cell (apparently - this is not really my area of expertise, I merely need to know that it's a bad thing)

Howard
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:33 pm

Post by Howard » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:23 pm

|Romeo| wrote:Hmmm, Carbon Fiber panels on an Aluminium frame attached using what appear to be Aluminium fasteners. This could turn out to be be rather amusing :lol:

Whilst it's true that in aerospace carbon composites are becoming increasingly common, it is very uncommon to find them attached using Aluminium fasteners -it sets up a galvanic cell (apparently - this is not really my area of expertise, I merely need to know that it's a bad thing)
I would think that a computer case would be operated in a dry environment.

walle
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:52 am

Post by walle » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:13 pm

ultrachrome wrote:I don't think these are knee-jerk responses.
I disagree, hence my reaction.
ultrachrome wrote:What is innovative about this case?
I was unaware of claiming it to be innovative, but to accommodate you; apart from the combination in-between aluminium and carbon-fibre, none. The rest is undeniably a tried out cliché.
ultrachrome wrote:Admittedly it's hard to look at this case as anything more than a cliche with that 80mm side fan.
I do not contest that, as such there should be no further dispute.

|Romeo|
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:36 pm
Location: UK

Post by |Romeo| » Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:18 pm

Howard wrote:
|Romeo| wrote:Hmmm, Carbon Fiber panels on an Aluminium frame attached using what appear to be Aluminium fasteners. This could turn out to be be rather amusing :lol:

Whilst it's true that in aerospace carbon composites are becoming increasingly common, it is very uncommon to find them attached using Aluminium fasteners -it sets up a galvanic cell (apparently - this is not really my area of expertise, I merely need to know that it's a bad thing)
I would think that a computer case would be operated in a dry environment.
Operated yes (with the exception of spilt drinks of course) transported (at least in the UK) on the other hand no.

I think I might have sounded too serious; I don't think the case is going to fall apart because of it -it's just that I can see certain people buying this case carrying it uncovered because they want to show it off and then finding corrosion on the wonderful new case. And the look on their faces would be priceless!

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:02 am

New product materials nearly always start off in small segments before anyone makes them mainstream, with PC's there is a strong tradition of starting in the gaming segment.

I dont see any problem with this case being aimed at the gaming market, its an obvious choice, and I would have made the same one. The gaming market is big compared to say: the silencing market. The gaming market is very easy to sell to as well, as the end-user is interested in having something "different" from his/her/its friends, so this case will sell OK.

Apart from that, my point really was, this is the "first", like the first aluminium case this wont be the last, and could have a very good future.


Andy
Last edited by andyb on Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

Filias Cupio
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:53 pm

Post by Filias Cupio » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:33 pm

They make a case out of expensive, light weight material - so their target market should be weight-conscious consumers, right? Then they produce a very large tower, with space for 12(!) disk drives.

The logic escapes me.

(Well, not entirely - their market is people with more dollars than sense. A good market, if you can tap into it.)

Felger Carbon
Posts: 2049
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:06 am
Location: Klamath Falls, OR

Post by Felger Carbon » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:14 am

Me and my business partner Jules Fibre are getting seriously cheezed off at the unfair and untrue statements about our new product. Next guy mouths off earns a visit from my nephew Guido, you get me? How's your knees? :evil:

psiu
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:53 pm
Location: Plymouth, MI
Contact:

Post by psiu » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:55 pm

ultrachrome wrote:I wonder if it is really any lighter than an aluminum case. But who would want to drag around a case that big?

They're probably better served putting wheels and a collapsible handle on it since it's already the size of a suitcase.

In the world of bikes, aluminum frames routinely weigh the same or less than all but the most esoteric carbon fiber frames.

I think its marketeering at work.

Now if this had a monocoque chassis and some drive vibration controls...
That would actually be an interesting case to see built. Mobile desk on wheels kinda thing...an LCD mounted on a hinge of sorts...power splitter integral to the beast so all you need is one power cord to run...hmmm.

PPGMD
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:52 pm

Post by PPGMD » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:14 pm

Personally though I doubt this case will make any splashes in the SPCR circles (after all it's made by Ultra), but it should be interesting if and when companies like Antec and Zalman, and the various SFF companies pick up carbon fiber.

NyteOwl
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Post by NyteOwl » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:28 pm

A completely overlooked aspect of using various non-metallic substances for cases, or a substancial part of the case, is the lack of EMI/RF shielding they provide both into and out of the case.
Obsolesence is just a lack of imagination!

nici
Posts: 3011
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:49 am
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele

Post by nici » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:09 pm

Maybe they laminate it over a thin sheet of alnmuminium or summit. dunno. CF does conduct electricity thought, so it might eork for EMI protection.

|Romeo|
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:36 pm
Location: UK

Post by |Romeo| » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:23 am

I understand that carbon composites are actually pretty good at blocking RF frequencies.

However, Ultra aren't selling this as a system, so won't have had to pass all (any?) of the RF tests (the same reason why it took a long time before you could buy windowed prebuilt systems from a manufacturer -a case does not need to be tested in the same way a "system" does -if anyone wants more information on this look up what you have to demonstrate to geta CE mark).

ronrem
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:59 am
Location: Santa Cruz

Post by ronrem » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:14 pm

|Romeo| wrote:I understand that carbon composites are actually pretty good at blocking RF frequencies.

However, Ultra aren't selling this as a system, so won't have had to pass all (any?) of the RF tests (the same reason why it took a long time before you could buy windowed prebuilt systems from a manufacturer -a case does not need to be tested in the same way a "system" does -if anyone wants more information on this look up what you have to demonstrate to geta CE mark).
Carbon Fibre (at least some versions) absorb radar waves,so have use in stealth. Whether this helps with EMI is not certain.

|Romeo|
Posts: 191
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:36 pm
Location: UK

Post by |Romeo| » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:17 pm

The context in which I came across it was in aerospace -attempting to put aerials inside a composite fuselage skin and discovering that they didn't work.

NyteOwl
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Post by NyteOwl » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:13 pm

It depends on the frequency of the RF. The human body will act as a shield at microwave frequencies too. Such composites and plastics become pervious as the frequency drops.
Obsolesence is just a lack of imagination!

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:52 am

carbon fibre is NOT dense.

sound gets blocked by DENSITY. (or sheer total mass, density is more realistic for a case as walls can only be so thick)

Lead is the ultimate case wall material. Besides like Uranium.

Cheap steel of heavy mm depth dimensions is massively more dense than carbon fibre.

Conclusion: Carbon Fibre sux. 35 dollar antec 3000 series for the win.
:shock:

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:32 pm

I take it then that you have bought and tested one of these cases to declare that "Carbon Fibre sux".

I have an open mind, and I would like to read a "non-bling" "non-overclockers" review, or ideally an "SPCR review". Until then I wouldnt write this case off, or any other Carbon Fiber Case until I have seen a decent review by a decent reviewer.

Carbon Fiber doesnt suck until its been proven too.


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

spookmineer
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 749
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:02 pm

Post by spookmineer » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:26 pm

Carbon fibre is also a lot more stiff then steel. Resonation comes from flexing due to the energy put into it by sound. If a material is very stiff, the sound absorption of it will be low (and therefor also the sound it emits).

Carbon fibre doesn't need to be as dense as steel and I'm not sure if density has so much to do with it. A completely inflexible material will be the most ideal case material, regardless of its density/thickness.

andyb
Patron of SPCR
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Essex, England

Post by andyb » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:25 pm

I have bent carbon fibre that is far weaker than steel, carbon fibre comes in dozens of varieties, just like steel.

I have bent steel that is far weaker than carbon fibre, steel comes in dozens of varieties, just like carbon fibre.

Carbon Fibre should not be ruled out as a case material, even if it is to be used in a composite design like the plastic in a P180/P150.


Andy
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,400MHz, 512GB 850 EVO, 500 Extreme II, 2x 2.5" drives, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr.
Server, under reconstruction, 380W Enermax Pro82+, positive pressure only.

~El~Jefe~
Friend of SPCR
Posts: 2887
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Location: New York City zzzz
Contact:

Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:01 pm

not being sure that density is a factor versus knowing about it is key to this dialogue.

density IS the factor. Mass is actually the one. particles hit mass, fly back, waves hit mass, fly back. resonating materials are ones that are light enough and pure enough to move with soundwaves. A brick wall blocks sounds not because it is thick, but because it has a lot of mass. If you cant make 3 inch walls on your case, you make them dense.

lead is the best case material possible. then you need something to absorb the sound being the case is not sealed and sound will bounce around and then escape.

the word: MASS loaded vinyl. Mass means it blocks sounds. vinyl means it makes great fetish outfits. MLV acts like lead, but has a soft squishy side that absorbs some of the sound from bouncing around.

Carbon fibre is lightweight. Sure, 1 inch of it probably is great but mm to mm comparison no way that a lighter material that is a solid piece of subtance is a better sound blocker. you dont need to check out something that is inherently flawed. Lead, brick, stone, all fantastic materials to make a case out of. aluminum is crappy because it is lightweight. p180 works because it is coated slabs of aluminum, it doesnt want to vibrate. however, it can easily transmit sound compared to cheap 30 dollar case steel. physics is fun except for people that dont like it i guess.

Post Reply