Ultimate HiFi Jukebox PC under $1K?

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:03 pm

Hi there…

I am trying to build a new Hi-Fi jukebox PC to host all my music CDs (500+), many of which are classical, vocal, and jazz. I currently have a Denon/Infinity based HiFi system, and my 6 year old CD changer just gave its last breath and finally let me justify getting a PC based solution! One of the reasons why I want it to be PC based is to ultimately turn this system into a HTPC, with DVD and TV recording functionality. No gaming in sight. Obviously, I want the PC to be very very quiet, it will be sitting next to my amp/receiver, about 6-8 feet from the listening position in a very quiet room.

I have selected the following components so far, starting from the core of the system...

PROCESSOR: P4 1.6A or 1.8A. I think these have a good combination of performance, low heat generation, and price. I wanted to go for a Celeron 2 or 2.2 for an even cheaper solution, but I read that these chips generate more heat. Is there a better performance/heat generation solution out there that is preferably socket 478? $130

HEAT SINK & FAN: I am leaning towards Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu. The CU version is out due to low benefit/cost ratio. I am afraid I will still be able to hear this fan even at 5V, especially if I can tame the PSU and case fans. Can I go fanless with a P4 1.6A? Or lower the voltage to the fan below 5V? Swap the fan? Any lower noise solution on such a relatively low heat P4? $35

MOTHERBOARD: 865PE or 865G chipset MB for upgradability. Obviously, one without a fan on the chipset. $120

VIDEO CARD: At this stage, graphics performance is not important. Could I get by with the on-board Intel Extreme Graphics 2 chipset by going with the 865G version of the MB? Or, should I get a 4x AGP 32mb or 64mb card to get by until I have the need the time and the funds for an HTPC? $0-$40

MEMORY: 256mb DDRAM. Do I need to buy DDRAMs in pairs to take advantage of its performance? $30

SOUND CARD: Terratec DMX 6fire 24/96 LT. This is one of the more important components to me. This card appears to have very good performance. I am concerned about the fact that it is internal, and performs the Digital-Analog Conversion inside the PC, and I am concerned that this may compromise sound quality. What are your thoughts? (I don’t have digital input capability at my receiver end) $100

CASE: Antec Sonata. I like the good looks, and low noise thinking from ground up. I like the fact that it is popular, there may be after-market mods, such as interior padding etc. available later on, and a strong user community to share experiences. $110. I am not sure about the 380W power supply unit that comes with the case, I have been reading complaints about PSU fan noise. I am thinking of swapping the Antec PSU with FSP300-60PN, or FSP350-60PN ($30) with its internal 12cm fan. I don’t know if I should get the case with its PSU and see if I like it, or get the case without the PSU from Directron.com, and order the FSP PSU right away and marry the two? Also, I saw the FSP PSU’s sold under the Fortron name as well as the AOpen name. What gives? Is there a difference? Another question, should I get the 300Watt or the 350Watt version? I probably will not need 350Watts right now, but which one would be cooler, thus quieter under, say a 100watt load? A future mod could be to swap the 12cm FSP (or 8cm Antec) PSU fan and the 12cm Antec case fan with Panaflos. Should I get into this right away or wait until I see how it sounds “stock”?

HARD DRIVE: I will need more than 120gb storage, because I will rip my CDs with a lossless codec. Seagate Barracuda V 120gb seems to have very low noise, but I may need 2 eventually. I think the 160gb Barracuda 7200.7s are a better value, but I read that they have noisier seeks than the Cuda V. This is a difficult cost/noise compromise, get 2 V series (120gb+80gb), or 1 7200.7 series (160gb). $160 or $260.

CDRW: What is a good low noise CDRW out there, that is preferably black? ~$45

OPERATING SYSTEM: I want to go with XP Professional due to its ability to become an XP Remote Control host. I currently have an XP Home laptop and a wireless network, and want to be able to run my jukebox remotely from anywhere in the house. Has anyone worked with this feature of XP Pro? What are the pros/cons? $150

KEYBOARD, MOUSE & MONITOR: The remote control solution above, if it works, makes my keyboard, mouse and monitor components less important and saves a lot of money by not having to go wireless on them. Can just have a wired keyboard, mouse, and a cheap $70 15” CRT. ~$80.

JUKEBOX SOFTWARE: Thinking of Windows Media Player 9, and its lossless codec. But that is the subject of a whole another post…

Well, the tally so far is right around $1100 with tax and shipping. I was hoping to get it under $1000, but I do not know where I can cut corners. I was also dreaming to get a 15” LCD monitor in there (~$250), but it looks like that will remain a dream

Where is a good place to buy all this? I want to buy the moving parts (PSU, fans etc) from a source that has a no-restocking-fee return policy (outpost.com?), and others from a reliable competitive online vendor (newegg.com?)

Any feedback is really appreciated on any of the items above, answers, suggestions, corrections, ideas…

Sorry for the long post…

Thanks in advance and have a happy July 4th weekend…

tragus · Post by **tragus** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:27 pm

If sound quality really is your primary concern, check out this page for a detailed comparison of a bewildering array of sound cards. The fellow does quite detailed testing (far and away better than 95% of the so-called "reviews", IMHO). From my limited sampling, I agree with his ratings. Unfortunately, he hasn't updated things in a while. Conversion inside the case shouldn't intrinsically be a problem, though it is for a number of lower-quality cards.

My audiophile rule of thumb: Spend the most money at signal transducers (where the signal gets converted from one form to another) -- e.g., speakers, turntable cartridges, and D/A converters. The rest is icing.

On the topic of computers, if you're going for an 865 motherboard, why not go with the "lower-end" 2.4 P4? A good sink (e.g., Zalman or Thermalright) with a low-speed fan (e.g., Panaflo 1L) inside a solid case should do pretty well. The 865G seems like a good idea in your case, though I have no data on its heat production.

Memory: You can go with a single stick, but (as I understand) two sticks adding up to the equivalent total (e.g., 1X 512 MB vs 2X256MB) will be significantly faster. If memory speed is important, go for the lowest latency possible. I assume no overclocking.

Case: If you want to save a few bucks and are willing to go with the Fortron 300 W, consider the Antec SLK3700 Directron.com since they will swap one in for the Antec stock and shave $6 off the case+CPU. All reports are that the stock Antec PSU is quite loud. A number of folks from SPCR have been very pleased with that combination (and you know how obsessive folks here can get

).

I'll leave other to comment on the rest. Good luck and let us know.

BTW, there was fellow who posted on the Yahoo group Silent-PC who finally built something much like you propose. You may wish to take a gander at his solution. [pause while looking for a link] OK, here it is. He went with a rather different end-product than you proposed.

XtalMan · Post by **XtalMan** » Sat Jul 05, 2003 7:22 pm

Here are some suggestions where you could save money. I've built a HTPC as well, out of spare parts. I'll make some comments on the things I'm familiar with.

Processor/Mobo: I'm sure you've considered AMD and ruled it out, but going with a Barton 2500XP/Epox 8RDA+ combination would save you about $75 there.

Video Card: Do you need/want S-Video out? I'm unfamiliar if motherboards have it integrated. You could get a fanless Geforce4 MX440 inexpensively (I am not familiar with ATI's lineup, I'm sure they have something comparable).

Case/Power Supply: Cases are very subjective decisions, so I won't steer you away from the Sonata, even though you could save quite a bit of money here. I don't know anything about the 380 Watt Antec PS, but my Antec SL-350 (with 2 fans, though) was too noisy. I have two Fortron FSP350-60N, and they are the quietest moving components in my cases.

Hard Drives: Do you need 7200rpm? I've got a 160Gb 5400rpm Samsung Spinpoint in mine, and don't notice the speed difference between it and my 7200rpm Maxtor. My experience is that the 5400rpm drives have no high-pitched whine, and produce less heat. Seeks are muted, but not silent. It's only ~$120 at Newegg. I find it a very good value. It could save you between $40 and $140 from what you proposed.

Operating System: Heh, if you use Linux you could save $150

. Do you have a spare copy of Windows? You MIGHT be able to use VNC for the remote computing, and not have to purchase XP Pro. It's free, so try it out and see if it fits your purposes. Find out more at http://www.tightvnc.com

RAM: 256 Mb of RAM works fine for me.

My HTPC setup is considerably less powerful than yours (AMD Duron 1.1 Ghz, 256Mb PC2100 RAM), and it's got plenty of processor power for music. It's also great for recording TV shows and watching DVD and video files, but it's a little too slow for tasks like watching and "pausing" live TV. I'll put up a web page soon.

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:16 am

Tragus, thanks for the ideas...

I looked at the sound card comparison site pcavtech.cpm. It is a great site, I just wish he had kept it up to date, it looks like it has not been updated in over a year like you mentioned. I was surprised that he ranked cards such as Santa Cruz up there with "excellent" SNR rating, while it has an SNR of only around 90db as far as I know.

I wonder if there is a card that has equivalent quality to the Terratec above with an external D/A converter, that is also less than $200?

I think 865G is a good idea too, I hope that Extreme Graphics 2 is not as bad as the original Extreme Graphics that everyone boos.. It is actually not a big deal, if it does not work, I can always get a cheap graphics card.

I looked at the system the guy at the silent-PC group built. His choice of equiipment had me drooling, it seems to be a very nice "cost no issue" solution. Great sound card (~$650), sleek case ($360), and fanlesss PSU ($230) alone more than busts my bank. But it does give me ideas. I should look into the Via C3 processor a little more seriously. How would it hold its own when I upgrade to HTPC though?

Thanks so much for the ideas and links!! On the Sonata case, I wonder if I can get by without a fan on the processor and just "duct" the case fan over the P4 like the SPCR review suggests? I wonder which processors would work with that kind of a setup? That would be one less fan to worry about...

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:31 am

Xtalman, thanks. I got turned off of AMD as they are said to generate more heat than same speed Intel equivalents. What is your experience? I'd like to ride about 1.5 years behind the Intel processor rollout schedule to save some money, P41.6A now for $130, P4 3.2C end of next year for $130... which probably won't happen as the new P4s generate too much heat to be used in a HTPC setup...

Does your FSP350-60N have a 12cm fan? I hear that 12cm fans make more noise per rpm than say 8cm fans. This info does not tell me much as to whether a 12cm or 8cm is less noisy. What are the facts here? There seems to be a manual knob on the back of the FSP350-60PN that adjusts fan speed. I wonder if the FSP300-60PN has some software based equivalent of that...

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 8:41 am

soundOFsilence wrote: I wonder if there is a card that has equivalent quality to the Terratec above with an external D/A converter, that is also less than $200?

You Got PM.

As far as that, Midiman has USB based boxes with external D/A converters. Or if you want, use a lower cost card (Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, etc...) with digital output and get a used Midiman D/A converter. I've been using external Denon D/A converters for a many years, which gives very nice results.

XtalMan · Post by **XtalMan** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:58 am

soundOFsilence,

I'll admit, I've only got AMD processors for home use (aside from a 333 mHz Celeron in my laptop), mainly because of cost. Of my recent processors, the Duron runs pretty hot (50 degrees idle), but the Barton 2500XP is typically at 36 degrees with an SLK900 and undervolting (but not underclocking). The only Intels I've used are at work, and I haven't checked on temperature.

My Fortron does indeed have a 12cm fan. I believe it's thermally controlled, because it spins up to full speed initially upon power up, then slows down almost immediately. They run at a slow enough speed that I can't hear them through the case.

As far as a 12cm fan vs 8cm at the same speed, yes, the 12cm will be louder, but it'll be pushing more air. Most people here undervolt their larger fans to reduce the noise.

ruprag · Post by **ruprag** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 12:59 pm

From what I understand Intel is cheating on the Thermal issue !

They now publish "typical thermal load" instead of maximum

This means that we are now comparing apples and oranges when talking about AMD/Intel heat generation.

My understanding is that if you get a Athlon Thoroughbred"B" (note the B) then you have a chip with a somewhat lower heat/watt than a similar Intel.

(I am not quite sure about this, but still think I am correct

)

Edit:
Thunderbird -> Thoroughbred (thx for the catch)

somebody · Post by **somebody** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:28 pm

I think ruprag has it right.

XtalMan · Post by **XtalMan** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:34 pm

Here are pictures of my HTPC.

I thought the Thunderbirds were really hot? Do you mean Thoroughbreds?

somebody · Post by **somebody** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 5:16 pm

Yeah, they are hot, but relative to the Pentium 4s they are not as hot.

Justin_R · Post by **Justin_R** » Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:28 pm

Xtalman's typo catch is correct. "Thoroughbred B" is the .13 micron process cool running Athlon XP in speed ratings from 1700+ upwards. (Note that not every speed in this range is a Thoroughbred B-- some are regular 0.18 micron hot-running Thoroughbreds (now called Throughbred A), and some are big-cached .13 micron Bartons). There is no "Thunderbird B". The "Thunderbird" was the 0.18 micron hot-running Athlon available in speeds from 650MHz to 1.4GHz.

Chris Hare's Processor Electrical Specifcations page is an awesome resource for this kind of info. It's listed in SPCR's Useful Links section, which everyone should explore if they haven't.

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:48 pm

Well, since you have a grand to spend, How about a Hush PC?

It will aesthetically match your HT components better. It also has a single PCI slot you could possibly use that sound card in. As always check the measurements so it will all fit.

Not to mention that it will be dead quiet.

I really think all the systems configs you have considered are overkill for a digital jukebox, IMO.

-Ed

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:04 pm

Edwood, you are right, some of the components are overkill for a jukebox, and mainly there so I can upgrade later to HTPC, e.g. i865 chipset. That restricts me to socket 478, I wouldn't mind getting the slowest Socket 478 Celeron instead of a P4, but I hear that they run hotter than a, say, P4 1.6A...

A hush PC is really out since as I mentioned, I want to be able to upgrade later to HTPC, add a graphics and TV card etc., get a second HD later to put new CDs and movies, pics., upgrade the processor if I need to etc. These things are a compromise with a HushPC.

I have been researching Via C3, although it may be "ok" for now, it really will not cut it for recording live TV. Its MP3/WMA encoding performance seems weak as well.

Anyhow, I have been comparing Fortron FSP300-60PN and FSP350-60PN PSUs. Can't find a lot of comparative documentation on them, the Fortron site is pretty useless. I can't tell whether the 300watt PSU or the 350watt version would generate more heat under the same load, say 100watts. Does anybody know?

Thanks!!

Rory B. · Post by **Rory B.** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:41 pm

Go for the 120mm fan Fortron without the PFC feature. The fan is quiet. The Fortron with the PFC feature is louder. Also get a Zalman FanMate for your 120mm rear fan so you can alter the voltage with the flick of a switch. Don't stick a fan in the front of the Sonata. Intake creates moise.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 9:55 pm

For starters, I would go here to research the sound card:

http://www.3dss.com

...typically they give pretty objective reviews of consumer grade electronics--and you have to be VERY careful trusting the manufacturer's claims regarding the specs of those sound cards...even though the Turtle Beach was never spec'ed as high as Audigy, almost all considered it to be a better "sounding" card. I would think that a turtle beach or the card you originally mentioned would be fine, but....whatever.

I would take the time to buy a nice PS and case. It's going to add to your cost, but why waste time with ugly cases (sorry, sonota makes me blow chunks, but each to their own I suppose) and PS's that aren't going to meet your noise requirements? I have a case with an Antec PS, and I can say that it's simply too intrusive to me--I've seen worse, but it definetly isn't great. I'd strongly reccomend trying to get one of the suggested PS's at spcr.com...I'm finding that anything else, stock, just isn't good enough for my ears.

I think for processors, you should also look at a Celeron 1.2 ghz + Soyo TISU MB. The combination is $100 (@ newegg), and should be enough power to do what you like--although I think the P4 1.6A is also a really good alternative, although slightly more pricey. Upgrading obviously wouldn't be as great, but as far as low power goes, you could probably get away with a fanless rig or one fan @ 5V if you play your cards right. That, and for $100 it's sort of hard to beat when you're talking bang for your buck.

256 megs is fine, irregardless of the system in question. For playing music, there's just no need for more. Add more later if it's an issue, but for what I see, I don't know what you'd need more than that for.

For harddrives, I would go with Seagates. They're the quietest according to Storagereview.com, who I feel have a pretty objective measurement of sound levels. I have a barracuda IV and I can't hear it idle, and seeks are largly inaudible to me--and the newer ones are supposedly even quieter. Get a 160, add on later if needs be. The Seagate 7200.7 160 gb drive is 136.00 at newegg--good price, imo.

video card: anything fanless. Go cheap as you can.

Destron · Post by **Destron** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:44 pm

soundOFsilence wrote: SOUND CARD: Terratec DMX 6fire 24/96 LT. This is one of the more important components to me. This card appears to have very good performance. I am concerned about the fact that it is internal, and performs the Digital-Analog Conversion inside the PC, and I am concerned that this may compromise sound quality. What are your thoughts? (I don’t have digital input capability at my receiver end) $100

Another option would be to buy a very high quality external DA and hook it up via SPDIF from your computer. This way, when you upgrade your PC or decide to change to a different solution you do not have upgrade your DA. You can also get a higher quality DA than the Terratec.

soundOFsilence wrote: OPERATING SYSTEM: I want to go with XP Professional due to its ability to become an XP Remote Control host. I currently have an XP Home laptop and a wireless network, and want to be able to run my jukebox remotely from anywhere in the house. Has anyone worked with this feature of XP Pro? What are the pros/cons? $150

If you went Linux you would save $150. If you set it up right you can control your music through a webpage on a server on your local network via your laptop computer. I do believe there are some snazzy Linux solutions in development.

soundOFsilence wrote: JUKEBOX SOFTWARE: Thinking of Windows Media Player 9, and its lossless codec. But that is the subject of a whole another post…

I recommend you use FLAC for its good compression ratio and reliability. Well, I do not have any experience with WMA but there are not any good tools for working with the files.

You might also think about how you are going to backup the lossless files. RAID 1 or 5 is a good idea (both protect your data if one HDD fails) but that would increase the # of drives in your computer and therefore its noise. Possibly a better solution would be to have a large, external HDD and copy your files to it. Check that your backed up data is safe every once in a while. When (notice I did not say if) your main HDD dies you can just swap in your backup.

Best of luck,

Destron

Edwood · Post by **Edwood** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:24 am

soundOFsilence wrote:Edwood, you are right, some of the components are overkill for a jukebox, and mainly there so I can upgrade later to HTPC, e.g. i865 chipset. That restricts me to socket 478, I wouldn't mind getting the slowest Socket 478 Celeron instead of a P4, but I hear that they run hotter than a, say, P4 1.6A...

A hush PC is really out since as I mentioned, I want to be able to upgrade later to HTPC, add a graphics and TV card etc., get a second HD later to put new CDs and movies, pics., upgrade the processor if I need to etc. These things are a compromise with a HushPC.

I have been researching Via C3, although it may be "ok" for now, it really will not cut it for recording live TV. Its MP3/WMA encoding performance seems weak as well.

Anyhow, I have been comparing Fortron FSP300-60PN and FSP350-60PN PSUs. Can't find a lot of comparative documentation on them, the Fortron site is pretty useless. I can't tell whether the 300watt PSU or the 350watt version would generate more heat under the same load, say 100watts. Does anybody know?

Thanks!!

Be sure to check out www.mythtv.org pretty kewl open source PVR program. Not for the Linux timid, though. MythTV is very promising, because it allows clustering of computers to utilize more storage space and CPU power.

You're right, though. If you want to add a TV tuner, Epia mobos are definitely out. Only one PCI slot and all.

I'm hoping the coaxial digital out on the Nehemia Epia M sounds good.

As for PSU's the general rule of thumb is the greater the overhead (i.e. more wattage with less percentage of power used) the more efficient the PSU will run. But not all PSU's are created equal. I have a 440Watt Antec TruPower, and that sucker get's Hot! Run's pretty quiet, and extremely stable. I have a 2.4b P4 with 2.5GB or RAM, 2 optical drives, and one HDD. My friend has the same PSU and his runs hot too. (Well, very warm air comes out the back compared to other PSU's I have)

That SilentMaxx proSilence PCS-350 is tempting, but the $235 pricetag is too steep.

-Ed

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:00 pm

Beyonder wrote: I would take the time to buy a nice PS and case. It's going to add to your cost, but why waste time with ugly cases (sorry, sonota makes me blow chunks, but each to their own I suppose) and PS's that aren't going to meet your noise requirements? I have a case with an Antec PS, and I can say that it's simply too intrusive to me--I've seen worse, but it definetly isn't great. I'd strongly reccomend trying to get one of the suggested PS's at spcr.com...I'm finding that anything else, stock, just isn't good enough for my ears.

I am not emotionally attached to the Sonata, I just want a black mid-tower with 120mm fans in the front and back, and I do not have many choices. I would actually prefer a case without a PSU since I will swap it anyway (see above). Can even buy without the fans so I can buy panaflos from scratch. I like the HD grommets and other low noise features of the Sonata.

Beyonder wrote: I think for processors, you should also look at a Celeron 1.2 ghz + Soyo TISU MB. The combination is $100 (@ newegg), and should be enough power to do what you like--although I think the P4 1.6A is also a really good alternative, although slightly more pricey. Upgrading obviously wouldn't be as great, but as far as low power goes, you could probably get away with a fanless rig or one fan @ 5V if you play your cards right. That, and for $100 it's sort of hard to beat when you're talking bang for your buck.

How easy would it be to upgrade the MB/CPU combo in the future?

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:10 pm

Destron wrote: Another option would be to buy a very high quality external DA and hook it up via SPDIF from your computer. This way, when you upgrade your PC or decide to change to a different solution you do not have upgrade your DA. You can also get a higher quality DA than the Terratec.

Or I could just get by with the Terratec for now, and later on buy an external DA to work with the Terratec.

Destron wrote: I recommend you use FLAC for its good compression ratio and reliability. Well, I do not have any experience with WMA but there are not any good tools for working with the files.

I agree that FLAC is better and faster at encoding too. I like the fact that many MP3 players also play WMA and I can put my music on a portable MP3 player without any other conversions. I wish there was also a lossless MP3 codec. The compression codec (and format) to me is actually not THAT important, since it is lossless.

Destron wrote: You might also think about how you are going to backup the lossless files.

I totally concur on the external HDD idea. That's what I was thinking. Maybe then I can even have all my music to go as well. Can just hook it up to my laptop at work. How'bout that for an added plus? The backup HDD would be taking some abuse but what are the chances of both HDDs ddying on me?

soundOFsilence · Post by **soundOFsilence** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:31 pm

Edwood wrote:As for PSU's the general rule of thumb is the greater the overhead (i.e. more wattage with less percentage of power used) the more efficient the PSU will run. But not all PSU's are created equal. -Ed

On the contrary, I was thinking the less % of max PSU power you use, the less the efficiency (the more the heat) looking at test results. See for example SPCR Nexus 3000 and 4000 reviews at 90 and 150 watt loads. The 400 watt version appears to be less efficient at these loads. But I may be overlooking something.

However...

It appears that the 350 watt Fortron (FSP350-60PN) above has a variable speed fan whereas the 300 watt (FSP300-60PN) version has a fixed speed fan (presumably adequate for max power). That may shift the scales in favor of the 350 watt version. Anybody have experience with both of these PSUs?

mond · Post by **mond** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:34 pm

about soundcards, even though terratec has a pretty good reputation, i would consider it a multipurpose card (gaming, midi etc..), and you really only need i/o. consider something like m-audio's "audiophile 2496" they provide good quality at their price, considering that the converters are on the card. also capable of 24bit/96kHz opperation as the name implies and has sp/dif out so you can add a better external converter later (but then, for mp3 playback that would seem a little weird). price is around £140, and there's also a USB version available if you ad another £40. alternatively, if you can pick up a creamware Luna card used cheap (they're quit common), that is also a good alternative, very good converters, but make sure it comes with OS v3.1 or higher.
for cpu it would seem obvious to go with a passively cooled VIA, this has propably allready been suggested.

grandpa_boris · Post by **grandpa_boris** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 4:28 pm

sonata: i have one. the stock 120mm fan isn't quiet.

intel extreme graphics: i have that on my work/office system. it's fine for 2D desktops. its 3D performance is "extreme" only in the sense that it's bad. the frame rates are better than you'd get with VIA's S3-descended graphics on an epia motherboard (have one of those as well

, but very much inferior to fanless and relatively inexpensive ATI 9200 and nVidia FX 5200 boards that are available out there.

built-in auido: my experience has been that it's usually inferior to a competent dedicated audio card, but my experience of comparing soundblaster to a built-in intel audio is 3 years old and out of date. my most current experience with the dbuilt-in audio has been realtek on a gigabyte GA-8PE800 Ultra motherboard (in the sonata case mentioned above). anything even moderately complicated causes it to have problems. the only way i had managed to get it working with more complex audio loads at all was to crank down the "hardware acceleration" level to put more load onto the CPU. i am going to be replacing it with audigy 2 next time i have time to open up that case...

modman · Post by **modman** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:33 am

I agree with grandpa_boris. I replaced a Intel mATX D845GERG2 built-in "extreme" graphics with a fanless 128MB PowerColor 9200; retail box for $80 at newegg. The "extreme" VGA-out port looked pretty good, but performace was lacking and I needed a TV-out. From my experience, ATIs TV-out has an excellent picture quality and great color output, while nVidia-based cards look washed out.

I also have an Intel D865PERLK motherboard with built-in audio. If using analog-out, know it does not have a hardware EQ. It does have digital-out, so it allows using an external D/A converter in a receiver or component.

I don't know of any motherboard with a built-in S-Video port. Perhaps now we will see some from boards with ATI's new chipset.

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:32 pm

How easy would it be to upgrade the MB/CPU combo in the future?

...that's the only real problem with going the Soyo TISU/Celeron route...essentially, you can't put a faster processor in there, and it uses PC100 or 133 memory. You're spending a hundred bucks on something that is pretty fast (more than enough guns to act as an audio server) but really has no headroom. You'd have to do the math and see if in the longrun you could save some money, or if it'd be more economical to just drop cash on a newer MB that has potential for upgrades and also more modern ram.

Either way, most people seem to have some PC100 or PC133 lying around (I know I do--it's pretty much free these days if you work the rebates right), and me personally? I think a 1.2 is enough power for what you want.

I would think this rig could do streaming video feeds, but.....hard to say. It seems like some people here aren't able to do that with equivalent processors, so.....

Beyonder · Post by **Beyonder** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:34 pm

One more thing:

I just want a black mid-tower with 120mm fans in the front and back

I try to build cases with no extranious fans at all. *shrugs* One for the CPU, if needed, and the PS--and nothing else. I think if you work things right, it's possible without too much trouble....

I guess that's why I really don't see the 120mm fan on the sonota to be of any value to me whatsoever. I'd rather NOT have any extra fans at all, including a nice big 120mm one.

Ultimate HiFi Jukebox PC under $1K?

Ultimate HiFi Jukebox PC under $1K?

Re: Ultimate HiFi Jukebox PC under $1K?

Re: Ultimate HiFi Jukebox PC under $1K?