Seasonic S12-500 & 600

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Edward Ng
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Post by Edward Ng » Thu May 26, 2005 2:13 am

MikeC wrote:Ed, count the number of blades on the fan. If it has 5, then you have the somewhat noisier original Yate Loon. If 7, then it should be the better Adda.
Five blades; I actually noticed it right after I logged off and reread the article/looked through the photos more carefully and was too lazy to log back in to edit my post for the 4th time.

Thank you though!

-Ed

winguy
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Post by winguy » Thu May 26, 2005 9:24 am

Edward Ng wrote: Okay the one I got doesn't have this sticker, so how do you tell for sure, and that page doesn't state exactly what the differences are. Is it just the caps and the fan? And what's special about the fan, that it is ball bearing, or that it's dual ball bearing? My unit is marked as ball bearing, plus it has dual 6-pin PCI-Ex connectors, anyway. I don't feel like voiding my warranty, so I'm not opening it just to check caps (and I couldn't care less which caps I ended up with; I'm confident the original ones are fine).

Oh and btw mine is labeled as Rev. A1, and it's an HT model, too.

Bleh, whatever; honestly, I don't really care. The thing is great as is; however, in case anyone wanted to know, NewEgg is still carrying the one I got, as that's where I bought mine.

-Ed
The newer version comes with a refined 20+4pin main connector design. :D The first generation uses a 24-to-20-pin adaptor.

Cassiel
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Post by Cassiel » Thu May 26, 2005 12:02 pm

anyone knows an online retailer which already has the newer version of the PSUs?

Kormac
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Post by Kormac » Thu May 26, 2005 7:15 pm

ImJacksAmygdala wrote: I also noticed that the recommended specs for the Nvidia Geforce 7800GTX requires a 500w PSU with 34A on the 12V rail. I'm still wondering how this relates to ATX12V v2.0 with its dual 12volt rails. Am I correct to assume that the rail current is additive? If this is the case then the S12-500 only has 33A. There was much talk at the Anandtech and Abxzone forums when SLI first came out and many people began to wonder if it was because of insufficient current on the 12volt rails for dual video cards.
Long time reader, first time poster :)

Can anyone comment on this statement? This has been one of my concerns about purchasing a new ATX v2.0 PSU -- specifically how the newer PCI-E high-draw video cards are going to handle the lower amperage that each individual 12V rail carries.

I realize that powering a high end processor & video card does not result in a "silent" PC, but the koolance case I use keeps my current gaming PC at a very reasonable noise level. :)

Thanks!
Kormac

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Post by hazindu » Fri May 27, 2005 4:41 am

are the older s12 500s any less efficient than the newer ones? You did test the older ones right?

Raymond
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Post by Raymond » Sat May 28, 2005 2:59 pm

Any idea on the differences between the retail and the bulk versions? At the german store, both versions are listed, but the retail versions aren't available yet.

In another topic, I read that the 301 version had shorter cables, but since the model# are the same for the S12-500 and the SS500HT, I was thinking that the psu's would be the same also.

So, what are the differences between the bulk and the retail versions? The fan grille, color maybe?

I'm planning on buying an antec P180 case and to switch motherboards sometime in the next few months. This means that I'll need long cables (the PSU is mounted below the motherboard in the P180) and also need both a 20pin and 24 pin ATX connecter (I really like the idea of the 20+4 pin connector on the S12 psu's).

I'm considering to buy the SS400HT, because it's powerfull enough, and also reasonably affordable (€65 was mentioned).
But it's of no use to me when the cables are too short :wink:

alexo
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Post by alexo » Sat May 28, 2005 7:06 pm

Can anyone tell me what configuration will require the 500W (or even the 600W) model and what will do nicely with the 430W?

Also, which will be quiteter at the same (<430W) loads, the S12-430 or the S12-500?

Thanks.

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Post by Devonavar » Sun May 29, 2005 2:10 pm

alexo wrote:Can anyone tell me what configuration will require the 500W (or even the 600W) model and what will do nicely with the 430W?

Also, which will be quiteter at the same (<430W) loads, the S12-430 or the S12-500?
Very few configurations are likely to requires a 500W or 600W PSU. Perhaps a Dual SLI or Dual CPU configuration would need this amount of power. If you haven't already, read through the section on typical power draw in our PSU fundamentals article.

Depending on the revision you get, the noise levels of the 430W and 500/600W are either too close to call, or the 430W is quieter. The older revision of the 500/600W models used fans that were noticeably louder than the fan in the 430W model. The new revision has eliminated this difference for the most part.

Raymond: It sounds like you've already read through all the information that we know about the differences between the bulk and retail versions. I don't know if anybody here has purchased the bulk 500W version, but I'd expect the differences to be similar to those at the 300W level.

Off the top of my head, I recall that the bulk versions have different/shorter cable configurations, use a stamped metal grill, and do not ship with retail accessories (20->24 pin adaptor, cable management ties, manual, power cable, etc). If you want more specific information, I suggest contacting the retailer you're buying from since they will be able to answer specific questions.

jmx
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Post by jmx » Mon May 30, 2005 10:18 am

Raymond wrote:Any idea on the differences between the retail and the bulk versions? At the german store, both versions are listed, but the retail versions aren't available yet.

In another topic, I read that the 301 version had shorter cables, but since the model# are the same for the S12-500 and the SS500HT, I was thinking that the psu's would be the same also.

So, what are the differences between the bulk and the retail versions? The fan grille, color maybe?
I just received my SS500HT bulk version (with 7 blades so I guess it's the new rev.) and it's not the same as retail version.

Differences I have found so far:
-Color is grey
-No accesories like cables, cable management kit, manual etc.
-Wires are not twisted
-No easy swap connectors
-2 SATA connectors instead of 4
-0 Fan M(3Pin) instead of 1
-0 External Fan connectors instead of 3

I sure hope performance, (no) noise and efficiency is the same as retail version...pretty dissapointed that they differ so much. I'f anyone has more knowledge about this subject please share. Does bulk and retail versions always differ like this??

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Post by Raymond » Mon May 30, 2005 1:02 pm

jmx wrote:Does bulk and retail versions always differ like this??
In my experience, they don't. Usually the device itself is exactly the same, but it's delivered without a box and seperate extra's (like software, manual, cables etc)

In this case, it seems that the device itself is also very different. Can you measure the cables, to check if the length also differs?

jmx
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Post by jmx » Tue May 31, 2005 12:15 am

Raymond wrote: Can you measure the cables, to check if the length also differs?
Cable length for Seasonic SS500HT bulk version:

43cm - 24-pin ATX
47cm - 4-pin ATX12v
47cm - 8-pin Dual CPU
82cm - 3xMolex + 1xFloppy
69cm - 3xMolex + 1xFloppy
60cm - 2xSATA
65cm - 2xPCI-E

justlnluck
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Post by justlnluck » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:42 pm

So is the new revision of the 500 available at any online retailers yet?

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Post by Raymond » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:18 am

jmx wrote:
Raymond wrote: Can you measure the cables, to check if the length also differs?
Cable length for Seasonic SS500HT bulk version:
Thanks!

It appears that these lengths are the same as the lengths measured by mike on the retail versions.

It's just the 20+4 and the 24 pin ATX plug

hazindu
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Post by hazindu » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:49 am

I got the A1 revision, but without the HT. Does anyone know if this is any less efficient than what was reviewed? It has the 24pin to 20pin adapter and only one pcie connecter, but is it otherwise the same thing?

alexo
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Post by alexo » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:11 am

How can I differentiate between the old and new versions of the S12-500 when ordering over the Internet?

Do they have different model numbers?

Tje review here says that the model number is "SS-500HT Active PFC F3" but I found a review of the older model and it quotes the same model number

Thanks,
Alex.

Zetto
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Post by Zetto » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:54 pm

yeah there's plenty of confusion with the new version. It has a different fan (recognized by having 7 blades instead of 5 in the old version) and different capacitors.

Here's a funny thing: I was scouring e-tailers for 600w unit and came accross a fairly good price at case-mod. I e-mailed them yesterday early in the morning and they promptly responded that they don't have the new version in stock and that it won't be on availabe in the US until july. The same day, late in the afternoon I get a second message from them that they got a shipment of new version units and I can order them now...

Now I am trying to think whether it's worth trying to order one and see whether they'll ship the old or the new version :D

Mr. Perfect
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Post by Mr. Perfect » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:02 pm

I'm a bit confused as to where the 430 stands now. Has it also been revised with a new fan? Did it finally receive a PCI-E connector? I'm rather interested in the 430, but without at least one PCI-E connnector it means I have to use some converter/splitter to power the new cards.

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Post by MikeC » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:04 am

Mr. Perfect wrote:I'm a bit confused as to where the 430 stands now. Has it also been revised with a new fan? Did it finally receive a PCI-E connector? I'm rather interested in the 430, but without at least one PCI-E connnector it means I have to use some converter/splitter to power the new cards.
What's to be confused? All the changes are clearly noted in the addendum to the orig review: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article226-page4.html

There is no PCI-e connector.

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Post by MassMan » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:07 am

MikeC wrote:
MassMan wrote:I presume the changes apply for the bulk packaged "SS-500HT (Bulk S12) 500Watt PSU" as well?
no se. check w/ Seasonic directly on this; those units are not available in North Am afaik.
Email from seasonic:
Dear Mads,
Please know that the announcement only apply to our retail products.
Bulk products will follow it's spec. and the requirements from our customers not end users.

Cathy Chang
Sea Sonic Electronics Co., Ltd.
[...]

Mads Thomsen wrote:
http://www.seasonic.com/new/twevent20050510.htm
Are the improvements only on the retail S12 series or have
SS-500HT/SS-600HT bulk undergone the same improvements (dual pci-e,
japanese capacitors, better fan)?
If i interpret the msg correctly the bulk versions wont be improved (even though they have the same SS-xxxHT name as the retail versions, weird?)

Don't quite know what's meant by "and the requirements from our customers not end users.", anyone?

_guillaume
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Post by _guillaume » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:27 pm

Don't quite know what's meant by "and the requirements from our customers not end users.", anyone?
My take on this is that they refer to THEIR customers, which are distributors and retailers. We are the powerless end-users. :)

shtef
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Post by shtef » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:07 am

Have anyone tried one of these PSUs with Antec P180 case?
It seems to me that ATX and P4 cables are too short :(
I planned to order S12-600 and P180 but I'm little concerned that cables won't be able to reach connectors on my Asus A8N SLI motherboard (especially the P4 connector)

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Post by Inglix » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:15 pm

Zetto wrote:
Here's a funny thing: I was scouring e-tailers for 600w unit and came accross a fairly good price at case-mod. I e-mailed them yesterday early in the morning and they promptly responded that they don't have the new version in stock and that it won't be on availabe in the US until july. The same day, late in the afternoon I get a second message from them that they got a shipment of new version units and I can order them now...
I took a risk and ordered one from them and got the new revision! I specified that I needed the new version for the 2 pci-e video card power adapters and had contacted them to confirm they had some of the newer units. Thier ratings are only so-so but it worked out. This 600w unit actually runs cooler than the 430w I have. The rear doesn't even get warm in idle (web surfing) conditions. My laser thermometer reads 30.55 on the aluminum heatsinks inside it, while windows is reporting 31c. Sometimes its at 29c while the case (P180) is 31c.

That's amazing compared to a Dell with a 3.6ghz+ P4. Those power supply exhausts are like a hair dryer. :roll:

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Post by Edward Ng » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:03 pm

shtef wrote:Have anyone tried one of these PSUs with Antec P180 case?
It seems to me that ATX and P4 cables are too short :(
I planned to order S12-600 and P180 but I'm little concerned that cables won't be able to reach connectors on my Asus A8N SLI motherboard (especially the P4 connector)
The cables reach just fine from my S12-600 in my P180; the board I'm using is DFI LAN Party nF3 250Gb, and utilizing the 24-20pin adapter. The 4-pin P4 line is long enough too.

-Ed

Cassiel
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Post by Cassiel » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:32 am

i've just ordered my s12-500 from pcalchemy.com. confirmed by email they have the newer version :)

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Post by Bubbalobill » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:55 am

I bought the 500 watt newer version earlier this week, it seems to be a very good unit, quiet and nice. Only thing I didn´t think of when I bought it was that I don´t have PCI-E, SATA or dual CPU, so theré are many unused connections, much to hide away. And I think they could have made the molex cables a bit longer, they almost don´t reach down in my 3000B when routed on the backside of the MB plate

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Post by MikeC » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:31 am

Bubbalobill --

I recall asking about the cable lengths at some point. They are actually a bit shorter (IIRC) in the 500 and 600 compared to the lower power S12s. The answer was that for Seasonic to assure proper power delivery up to max power, the cable lengths had to be carefully watched to ensure minimal voltage drop. Any longer, and their engineers would have wanted to increase the cable gauge (thickness), which would have increased cost and hurt cable management. It seems a perfectly legitimate (and admirably conscientious) approach to me.

Bubbalobill
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Post by Bubbalobill » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:44 am

I suppose that cable length is something to have in mind when manifacturing PSU:s, maybe that is one of the reasons that it has the high 80% efficiency. I believe that the cables in the S12 is a bit thicker than in my previous Enermax 431W, and softer too.
I´ll be rearranging the cables once more in awhile, just got a third HDD. Have a nice weekend.

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Post by frostedflakes » Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:08 am

MikeC wrote:Bubbalobill --

I recall asking about the cable lengths at some point. They are actually a bit shorter (IIRC) in the 500 and 600 compared to the lower power S12s. The answer was that for Seasonic to assure proper power delivery up to max power, the cable lengths had to be carefully watched to ensure minimal voltage drop. Any longer, and their engineers would have wanted to increase the cable gauge (thickness), which would have increased cost and hurt cable management. It seems a perfectly legitimate (and admirably conscientious) approach to me.
Very interesting; just goes to show how much thought and engineering goes into the design of these power supplies.

patchwork
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Post by patchwork » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:32 pm

This might be a really dumb question but its been bothering me for ages now.

I was wondering how the Seasonic performs in a water cooled system.

Does the PSU run quieter due to the better heat management? (less heat rising up directly from the cpu, northbridge and graphics card)

Does it run louder because of the lower fan speeds often used in water cooled systems? (less general airflow)

Or does it not matter because the the same amount of actual heat is produced in a "typical" vs water cooled system? (just transfered to the air differently)

Pete

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Post by Freelancer77 » Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:23 pm

MikeC wrote:Bubbalobill --

I recall asking about the cable lengths at some point. They are actually a bit shorter (IIRC) in the 500 and 600 compared to the lower power S12s. The answer was that for Seasonic to assure proper power delivery up to max power, the cable lengths had to be carefully watched to ensure minimal voltage drop. Any longer, and their engineers would have wanted to increase the cable gauge (thickness), which would have increased cost and hurt cable management. It seems a perfectly legitimate (and admirably conscientious) approach to me.
Thanks Mike, that's a great answer. I was worried about the S12-500 in combo with an A8N SLI MOBO in the P180 case because of the location of the ATX12V connector, but it worked out fine for me. Not much slack, but no tension either. On the other hand, that is one cable that they could make longer, increase the wire gauge/insulation, and I wouldn't complain. It's only 4 wires.

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