Antec P180: A visual tour

Want to talk about one of the articles in SPCR? Here's the forum for you.
Zhentar
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Post by Zhentar » Fri May 27, 2005 1:30 am

That looks beautiful...

I have only two concerns about it.

1. Will that positioning of the PSU give enough room for 120mm fan PSUs?

2. Will there be a contest to give away one or more of these to me?

Mumrik
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Post by Mumrik » Fri May 27, 2005 1:41 am

Zhentar wrote: 1. Will that positioning of the PSU give enough room for 120mm fan PSUs?

According to the article, yes.

nici
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Post by nici » Fri May 27, 2005 2:04 am

Very nice... :D Me wants one :lol: I much prefer the black one, i think silver is boring. Its not going to be available here for a while though... On the other hand ordering from the states is a reasonable option at the moment as the dollar is so weak :D I have noticed though that most big computer-stores in the states only ship to the states and maybe canada and thats it..

MassMan
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Post by MassMan » Fri May 27, 2005 2:07 am

Will the black spcr version become available in europe (more specifically, Scandinavia)?

I might just put my next system in a 3000b until a black p180 gets available, because although the alu version will have the same aucustic advantages, it just looks a bit fridge tacky.

Webfire
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Post by Webfire » Fri May 27, 2005 3:31 am

Well on the page of endpcnoise.com is an image which states that they ship internationally. So you can probably order there when you want the P180 SPCR edition.

The P180 looks so damn nice. I'm tempted to buy one- But on the other hand I wanted to build a case by myself so the P180 has to wait a little bit.

BlueTide
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Post by BlueTide » Fri May 27, 2005 3:38 am

milo wrote:How permanently is the cage for external drives attached? I'm still harboring vague dreams of cramming an EATX board into one of these cases, but it looks as if it'll take a fair amount of surgery to pull it off.
I would be interested to know that as well.

I may be a bit of an odd bird in this forum too, but given the field I work/study with, the needs for computers are rather... not those of many others. For home, I prefer laptops, so they are quiet at least, but the workstations...

Anyway, just dreaming about this case with 4 raptors in RAID 0, 2 SCSI drives for system and scratch disk, dual opterons and a Quadro board. Now, that puts some demand to the cooling and I really, really would like these things to be silent. That may be too much to ask for, so I wish to dream this case could bring all that at least a bit closer. For one, I have never before seen that cleaver hard drive bays positioned like that, and even more so just the number I would need. Only thing might be the E-ATX compatibility.

Bah, at least I was hoping I would not need an update till some years later when things hopefully have settled down a bit (BTX, dual-cores, PCI-Exp, PCI-X and so).

One more thing. While I do not doubt MikeC one bit, like mentioned before SPCR needs to be very carefull how it will review and write recommendations about Antec products. While I see that this case is a potentially a very good example of a fruitfull, mutual benefit, it might but the site as such in a bit difficult position as a reliable source. Just a concern, I don't mean to flame or anything. Just be carefull. ;)
- BlueTide
Dual AMD MP2800+, SLK-800As + Nexus 80mm fans on Fanmates, GF6800GT + Zalman VF-700-Cu, SS12-500 and a Seagate 200GB in Nexus Drive-A-Way. Still makes noise.

sionnach
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Post by sionnach » Fri May 27, 2005 3:38 am

oh man i really, REALLY want that black version but i also really REALLY live in ireland. ARGH. I'll see what shipping costs are with endpcnoise. *crosses fingers*

ultraboy
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Post by ultraboy » Fri May 27, 2005 4:12 am

Beautiful case. Looking forward to the full review.

The chance of me owning the SPCR black one is about zero :cry: :cry: :cry: as I'm on the other side of planet earth, unless Antec would be willing to 'stop by' and drop me a box on their way to N. America from Taiwan or China (assuming that it's made there).

MikeC, congratulation for a very well design case. I'm quite sure the test/review would come out good no matter who does the review.

Btw, when I read that you were involved in the design, I thought I would see suspended Hdds as a factory installed option. :wink:

NARC
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Looks great!

Post by NARC » Fri May 27, 2005 4:21 am

Honestly, I was thinking about trying somehow to build a case very similar to this.

Now, when does the SFF come out for my future media center PC? :wink:

anthonysimilion
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Post by anthonysimilion » Fri May 27, 2005 4:40 am

MikeC wrote: As for a SPCR black one in the UK, we're inquiring now about who might handle it. The black version is exclusive to SCPR for at least 6 mos.
I'm not sure if the market is big enough, but getting an Australian distributor would be excellent. :)

I'd buy one for sure - Black, with the SPCR badge on it. :D

Raymond
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Post by Raymond » Fri May 27, 2005 5:34 am

Webfire wrote:Well on the page of endpcnoise.com is an image which states that they ship internationally. So you can probably order there when you want the P180 SPCR edition.
Shipping is about $210 for a pc case. A bit steep.

Pgh
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Post by Pgh » Fri May 27, 2005 6:09 am

Mumrik posed the question earlier, and I would like to re-ask the question: How are the fans mounted in this case? The picture of the top fan on page 6 make it look like it is impossible to use EAR grommets there. What about the other fans too?

Buzku
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Post by Buzku » Fri May 27, 2005 6:33 am

I think the silver version is much more good looking that dull, boring black one.

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Fri May 27, 2005 7:07 am

MikeC wrote: Re the "cover" when not using the top fan -- this was discussed at some point, but long after the build was "fixed" (for the first run anyway). It is easy to block the hole with many different types of materials. It's probably one of the few areas a silencers might want to actually do a MOD... that's not so scary, is it? The other thing is that the top fan actually may be a bit more effective, maybe because of convection.
Hmm... I think in this... umm... case it *is* a bit of a bind. I'd have thought the whole point of buying such an expensive product is that it should work out of the box, and mods shouldn't be necessary (after all, you can make a £10 case silent if you're willing to put in enough time and effort).

Since the hole is in such a prominent place, it's also hard to imagine how you'd go about blocking it up effectively sound-wise without it looking ghetto-tastic, unless you went to a good deal of trouble that is (again, something you really shouldn't be required to do).

It can't be that difficult for Antec to design a sort of sealed manhole-type plug made out of the same material as the case panels, and with the same finish... can it... ?

Bruce Ballslap
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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Fri May 27, 2005 7:27 am

Honeycomb and square holing are both as efficient airflow-wise.

Round holes are the least efficient of these three choices.

Right?

Bruce Ballslap
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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Fri May 27, 2005 7:42 am

thetoad30 wrote:Who is going to be selling black case?

When will the review be up on SPCR?
It's in the article.

mongobilly
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Post by mongobilly » Fri May 27, 2005 7:43 am

I like the very plain looks (and personally I think the alu looks better than the black one but then again, I'm a sucker for all things industrial design).

What I most definitely don't like (aside of that pricing) is the fact that a 1 fan system is pretty hard with this. My Etasis works just fine without fan, but some airflow across the HDs is pretty much required to keep them at a responsible temperature.

So why oh why can't we have 4 disks above the steel thing?

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Post by moritz » Fri May 27, 2005 7:44 am

Re: MikeC and Antec. I agree with the sentiment voiced by others that you guys need to be really careful with this. On the one hand, I love the fact that Mike is involved in designing this case, I'm sure it gained a lot from it. (It'd be fun to know what, specifically, sort of a history of the design, but that might be confidential.) On the other hand, the conflict of interest is obvious. At least you did the right thing in disclosing the relationship - not that I would have expected anything else, but others might not have done so. Anyway, it must be odd to review something you (co-)designed in the first place...

Re: The case in general. I'm psyched! The seperation of the PSU/HD really convinced me, it just seems like the right thing to do. Everything else looks great, too.

Re: HD cage. Somebody already mentioned this - it doesn't seem very easy to suspend disks in that cage. My current Lian-Li cages had holes on the sides, making a suspension with the drives rotated 90° extremely easy. Hm. Maybe suspension isn't that necessary with the case, but I doubt it - not with my HDs!

Re: Top exhaust "spoiler". I still don't really understand the need for the spoiler. What's it for? Noise redirection? Airflow redirection? Not likely, with it being "meshy" like it is. Preventing stuff from falling in? It won't prevent liquids, will it? Why not just have a normal fan grill? Other cases are set up like that - e.g. the Lian Li PC-60xx series.

Edit: Here are some more points.

Re: Blocking the top exhaust. The easiest and best-looking way I can think of is just screwing something solid in the position of the fan - plastic, wood, or even cardboard. Blocks the sound (and the airflow) and not easily visible from outside. And extremely easy mod, especially if you use cardboard. (Is that a fire hazard?) On the other hand, the top exhaust looks kind of odd with the spoiler removed, judging by this picture. Sidenote: I've said so before, but it'd be great to have high-res versions of those pictures for a closer examination - this is especially true for a photo tour...

Re: Front of the case part one. The IEEE 1394 (FireWire), USB 2.0 and audio ports are accessible with the door closed. Great! The door must be opened to access the power and reset buttons. Odd. Why not put them accessible from outside, too? Then I'd never have to open the case. Now that I write it, I guess this is useful for public terminals where you don't want the power buttons accesible. So I guess you can scratch that question, even though I'd have preferred to have it different.

Re: Front of the case part two. There's a lot of stuff between the front intake (front intake fan in one case) and the world in general. There's a metal grill, which looks great. Then there's a dust filter, which looks great, and it's removable for those who disagree. So far so good - but then there are the two "grill covers", which look more restrictive than either grill and filter, although that's really hard to tell from the pictures. And after those, there is the door, with the air coming through the sides and the bottom. That's 4 barriers with the door closed.

Re: The door. I'm sure I'll have it closed all the time, but anway, it's great to see you can turn it 270° and have it sit flat to the side of the case. So those people who want the door open for easy access or airflow reasons can do so without having the whole thing look ridiculous.

Re: VGA fan duct. I'm still uncertain about this. The only situation where this would appear to be really useful is with high-powered, passively cooled VGA cards, ie. the passive 6600 GT cards available now. I'm sure they'd run great with this thing attached - but then, why not use active cooling in the first place. Low-powered cards don't need additional airflow to stay cool enough to run, and actively cooled high-powered cards often come with their own fan duct sucking in air from the outside. I guess not all of them do, and the fan duct is useful for those. That said, I love the simple, non-pretentious design (it's "basically a small plastic box with two holes").

Re: Antec tri-cool fans. So how good are these? Will half of the folks on these forums rush and replace them with third-party fans? It's "quiet" at low setting, but as we all know, quiet can mean anything. Is it quiet relative to other SPCR recommended fans? Note that I didn't do any research and I'm really clueless wrt to fans, I guess everyone else already knows how this specific fan performs.

Re: Size. I wouldn't have thought of it if others hadn't mentioned it - I don't really need a case this size. It looks about the same size as my current case, and something half as big would do. I don't even have a second optical drive... I'm curious if the small Antec cases have gained from Mike's consulting, although I'm afraid that it's really unlikely they share many of the cool features - e.g. the PSU/HD compartment.

Re: Price. I don't know what price to expect here in Germany, but judging by the US prices, it will be fairly steep. I paid a lot for my current case, and kicked myself afterwards because while it's nice, it's not worth more than a hundred euros. I'm not sure if I'd want to do the same mistake again, even with a case as cool as this one. A new case is in order though - I guess it'll depend on whether attractive small cases are available.

Anyway, yay. Looking forward to read more about this case. Congrats on the joint-venture.
Last edited by moritz on Fri May 27, 2005 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bruce Ballslap
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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Fri May 27, 2005 8:07 am

I would like to see the review done by none of the concerned parties. I totally respect MikeC as a reviewer and my wish is in his and Antec's own interests: By making the review truly unbiased all gossiping and scheming by trolls, competitors etc would be greatly quietened down beforehand.

scara
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Post by scara » Fri May 27, 2005 8:19 am

Very impressed with both Antec and MikeC. Not many companies of Antecs' size are so receptive to feedback and even fewer people can provide the level of expertise required for such a successful collaboration.
the article wrote:The concept is for cooler outside air to be pulled into the duct by the fan
Wouldn't it be better to exhaust the air out through the duct? As an intake it will pull in the hot air from the PSU and HDD channel, potentially 70W of heat in the example. Also, isn't there a negative conflict with the 120mm exhaust (both inside and outside)?


Will the SPCR version be sold with or without the Tri-Cool fans? They don't seem to be mentioned very often as being particularly quiet (compared to YL/Nexus). Infact are there any differences that make a case an SPCR version, aside from the big white logo on the front?

Buzku
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Post by Buzku » Fri May 27, 2005 8:45 am

moritz wrote: Re: Antec tri-cool fans. So how good are these? Will half of the folks on these forums rush and replace them with third-party fans? It's "quiet" at low setting, but as we all know, quiet can mean anything. Is it quiet relative to other SPCR recommended fans? Note that I didn't do any research and I'm really clueless wrt to fans, I guess everyone else already knows how this specific fan performs.
I have one 92mm tricool. Its quiet at low by humming of air but not for motor noise, you can hear the motor quite easily.

nici
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Post by nici » Fri May 27, 2005 8:58 am

The case is available for pre-order at www.verkkokauppa.com for 145€ wich at the current rate is 182$. No mentioning of when it will arrive though.

I would expect it to be maybe 20-30€ cheaper in Germany.

IceWindius
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Post by IceWindius » Fri May 27, 2005 9:06 am

I don't see anywhere to preorder the case at EndPCNoise. Why didn't they go to newegg or zipzoom that have more buying and shipping power?

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Post by thetoad30 » Fri May 27, 2005 9:15 am

Bruce Ballslap wrote:
thetoad30 wrote:Who is going to be selling black case?

When will the review be up on SPCR?
It's in the article.
As for who's selling the black case... I must have missed that. I'm retarded. Sorry.

As for the review, I know they said after Computex, but I was just wondering around when they would be getting to it... as I'm really needing a case, I was wondering if I would have to wait for a review or if I would be able to get the case around the time when it comes out. Not looking for anything firm, just a rough estimate.

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Post by moritz » Fri May 27, 2005 9:17 am

nici wrote:The case is available for pre-order at www.verkkokauppa.com for 145€ wich at the current rate is 182$.
Cool. That's better than I expected. Especially if you're right about it being cheaper here. ;)
I get my kicks on channel six.

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Cases available for preorder in Canada

Post by Spinner » Fri May 27, 2005 9:32 am

The cases are now available for preorder @ FrontierPC. One of the two cases doesn't have a picture, so I guess it's the SPCR black one.

Silver

I've noticed the cases are not displayed in the "silent" section, only in the regular cases one. I'll send them an email about that.

Incredibly good work, MikeC. Congratulations !

Edit:The black case isn't available yet, but FrontierPc told me they will announce it very visibly and in the right section.
Last edited by Spinner on Fri May 27, 2005 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lenny
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Post by lenny » Fri May 27, 2005 9:34 am

Some random thoughts and comments on this case. I actually like the silver one better :-) I'm assuming the black one will cost more since it is only from one retailer. It'll be nice if there are some other differences with the black version (e.g. fans on grommets, quieter fans or even no fans, HDD suspension kit (a few elastic strings :-) ).

If I end up getting the silver one, I'll donate the difference in price to SPCR :-) Least I can do to say thanks for designing a case with such great features!

Suspension : since no one seemed to have mentioned it, there looks like more than enough space at the lower cage to horizontally suspend two drives. Might even provide better cooling that way since there is more space for airflow along the edges of the drives.

I'd like to see how well the silicone grommets work first. I'm lazy - I'd rather not mod if I don't have to.

In the enthusiast sites I'm sure the lack of a motherboard tray is going to be held against it. Fortunately it is not an issue for me.

I wonder why cases don't just come with a metal grill that can be easily removed for the maximum airflow zero restriction folks. FCC? Cost?

For EMI, I seem to recall a case that has grills that are very open (the holes are big) but they make the edges thick in the direction of the airflow. This supposedly reduces EMI. Don't recall where I saw this (Anandtech? Tom's? Or here?). Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

The holes around the PSU looks like it might be a problem if the PSU chamber fan draws less air than the PSU exhausts. Some of the exhaust (esp. with a 120mm fan) will probably get drawn back into the PSU. Nothing a little packing tape cannot fix.

Assuming the PSU chamber is quite airtight, I wonder if it might be possible to run a fanned PSU with the fan disabled, esp. 80mm models (since 120mm PSUs blow air directly at the heat sinks, which seems to cool better in most situations - re: blow vs. suck for CPU hsf).

PSU cable length : EdwardNg mentioned in another thread : ATX extension cables. He did not mention if it'll be included or if it is something you'll need to buy.

I really like the silicone around the PSU. I managed to put isolators on the PSU fan of my Sonata, and that was a major pain. I also added some silicone pads where there is metal to metal contact between PSU and case, but that throws the alignment of the screw holes off a little.

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Post by sgtpokey » Fri May 27, 2005 9:50 am

Bravo about the co-marketing!!

I must say the spcr logo looks extremely sharp in white-on-black.

(when you changed logos I voiced a negative opinion of it but it sure looks nice on that case!!)

m0002a
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Post by m0002a » Fri May 27, 2005 9:51 am

lenny wrote:I really like the silicone around the PSU. I managed to put isolators on the PSU fan of my Sonata, and that was a major pain. I also added some silicone pads where there is metal to metal contact between PSU and case, but that throws the alignment of the screw holes off a little.
The way I handle this is to use GE 100% Silicone II caulk. I apply about 3/8" layer and let it set up for about 30-45 minutes (but not completely dry) , and then install the PSU (or fan). By installing it before it completely dries, this allows it to conform to the object being installed without causing any alignment problems. Even though silicone caulk has some adhesion properties, there is no serious problem in removing the item when necessary (the silicone more or less peels off).

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Post by Arcticfox » Fri May 27, 2005 9:54 am

moritz wrote:Re: Front of the case part one. The IEEE 1394 (FireWire), USB 2.0 and audio ports are accessible with the door closed. Great! The door must be opened to access the power and reset buttons. Odd. Why not put them accessible from outside, too? Then I'd never have to open the case. Now that I write it, I guess this is useful for public terminals where you don't want the power buttons accesible. So I guess you can scratch that question, even though I'd have preferred to have it different.
Many motherboards allow you to use a keyboard to turn on the computer by pressing a hot key combination. If your motherboard supports this feature you would not need to open the front of the case except to access the optical/floppy drives.

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