Antec NSK2400 Media PC Case

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tempeteduson
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Post by tempeteduson » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:42 am

IsaacKuo wrote:In the opinion of this SPCR reader, there is exactly one thing this case desperately needs--an extra 30+mm in height above the CPU.

Also, it would have been nice if there were an optional slot in the main partition to allow a full size motherboard to fit. The power supply mounting would have to be raised a bit, of course.
I understand the appeal of the extra height (I myself wanted to be able to stuff a Ninja in there), but other decent coolers fit, and the case is a lot better in this respect than the horriblly limited Minuet (and many other HTPC cases). Besides, the extra height would have made the case taller than 3U... :P

Regarding the possibility of fitting an ATX mobo in the case, I don't think that's possible without making the case considerably larger. Even if you lift the PSU compartment off its current position, you wouldn't be able to fit the extra expansion slots. Unless, of course, the PSU compartment is above the slots. Too tall, methinks.

Regards,
KTK

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Post by MikeC » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:57 am

I've been on the hunt for a <120mm tall "tower" style HS off/on for weeks. Perhaps if everyone reading this thread goes on the hunt, we get get a few together to review & try out in the NSK2400.

The Spire SP601B3 I mentioned earlier is OK but not great because the fins are too tightly spaced for good low airflow performance.

Also, the Thermalright SP120/90 work quite well in the NSK2400 if the HS mounting scheme allows the fins to run side to side.

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Post by qviri » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:05 am

tempeteduson wrote:
IsaacKuo wrote:Also, it would have been nice if there were an optional slot in the main partition to allow a full size motherboard to fit. The power supply mounting would have to be raised a bit, of course.
Regarding the possibility of fitting an ATX mobo in the case, I don't think that's possible without making the case considerably larger. Even if you lift the PSU compartment off its current position, you wouldn't be able to fit the extra expansion slots. Unless, of course, the PSU compartment is above the slots. Too tall, methinks.
I think what Isaac was looking for is just to raise the PSU the ~20mm necessary for the last couple of PCI slots to slide under the PSU. This would have application in a case where you wanted a full ATX motherboard for some of its features, but didn't need as many PCI slots.

I'm in a situation like that myself -- I have a full ATX board, since decent microATX socket A board are hard to come across. However, I'm not using any of the PCI slots, just the AGP slot. Getting a full-tower (or full-width desktop) case is wasting space and case material; and a microATX case (NSK3300) won't fit. Argh. :?

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Post by tempeteduson » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:29 am

qviri,

Yes, that would be a solution for some of us. Sorry, I was thinking in terms of a new build where one could always buy a full-featured uATX board. (That's becuase I'm planning an HTPC project myself. :D)

Regards,
KTK

EDIT: Corrected.

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Post by ziphnor » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:44 pm

Upon reading this review i nearly ordered it right away. Then i noticed that it has its exhaust fans on the SIDE. Am i the only one having placed my HTPC in a TV stand closed of to the sides? I currently have a normal ATX desktop case, and it only leaves ~ 1cm to each side of the case, but i have removed some of the back panel in the stand exposing the rear of the case. I dont think the side exhaust fans are likely to appreciate this :)

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Post by MikeC » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:20 pm

It's quite common to see vents on the sides of HTPC case. Whether it's in or out, I'd say you want ~2" on either side.

A few cases that have side vents...

Silverstone LC20, LC18, LC17, LC16, LC14, LC13
Lian Li 880
Coolermaster CM Media
Ahanix MCE601,301, 302
Zalman HD160

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Post by eternizer » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:30 pm

MikeC wrote:Also, the Thermalright SP120/90 work quite well in the NSK2400 if the HS mounting scheme allows the fins to run side to side.
Yes, you mentioned this in "the other NSK2400 thread" too and I did wonder if you meant passive-mode because SI-120 (I assume SP120 is typo of SI-120. Please correct me if I'm wrong) is 90mm tall and would be 115mm tall with 120x25 fan and thus there would be no breathing room on top of that in the case. If you meant passive-mode SI-120, then I'll go get the HS right away. :D

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Post by MikeC » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:56 pm

passive-mode SI-120 -- it is worth trying. Depends on CPU & vidcard. Also, Devon & I discussed the possibility of jamming a 92mm fan on the underside of the fins in that HS. We haven't tried it, haven't got a SI-120 to try it with, but this seems feasible. (Only have SP120...)

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Post by ziphnor » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:10 pm

MikeC wrote: A few cases that have side vents...

Silverstone LC20, LC18, LC17, LC16, LC14, LC13
Lian Li 880
Coolermaster CM Media
Ahanix MCE601,301, 302
Zalman HD160
But do these cases also take up as much space in width as an ATX desktop case(which this antec case does)?.

I would really like a case that is high enough to fit a tower style passive heatsink(currently i use a TT Sonic Tower with only case fans, works fine with my Venice 3000+, i just have to leave the lid off, because its too high :) and slimmer in width and depth.

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Post by MikeC » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:40 pm

ziphnor wrote:But do these cases also take up as much space in width as an ATX desktop case(which this antec case does)?.
Yes.
I would really like a case that is high enough to fit a tower style passive heatsink.

The >7" cases from Silverstone & LianLi will do this... but they look pretty ugly imo, because the proportions make them look like... sumo wrestlers or jabba the hut. I'm more interested in encouraging a HS mfg to design and make one the right size for the lower profile cases like this one.

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Post by BillyBuerger » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:23 pm

Sorry, another typo. The link to Antec's website is missing the "http://" part so it links to "http://www.silentpcreview.com/www.antec-inc.com".

Otherwise, looks great. I'm thinking about this for my spare Celeron-M CPU since I've upgraded to a Pentium-M. It's between this and the AOpen MiniPC MP915-B. The AOpen would take up very little space. But would be limited in upgrades and I'm not sure how quiet the fan would be. The Antec is larger but would still fit well. And I could swap/add parts. Either way, it has to wait until I can spend some money.

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Post by cmcquistion » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:42 pm

I've ordered an NSK2400, a MSI K8NGM2-FID (mATX Nvidia Geforce 6150 MB with onboard video), a Scythe 120mm FDB fan (lowest speed), and a Thermalright SI-120. I already have an Athlon 3200+ and Seasonic S12-330.

I'm going to throw these together and see if the SI-120 can passively cool my 3200+, using only a Scythe 120mm fan (@ 5-6V), as the exhaust fan. I have high hopes, as this would create an AWESOME home theater PC, if it all works out.

I will report back, after I've got everything together.

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Post by ziphnor » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:18 am

MikeC wrote:
ziphnor wrote:But do these cases also take up as much space in width as an ATX desktop case(which this antec case does)?.
Yes.
In that case i guess ill just make some nice holes in the tv stand or buy a nwe one :)
I would really like a case that is high enough to fit a tower style passive heatsink.

The >7" cases from Silverstone & LianLi will do this... but they look pretty ugly imo, because the proportions make them look like... sumo wrestlers or jabba the hut. I'm more interested in encouraging a HS mfg to design and make one the right size for the lower profile cases like this one.
[/quote]

Certainly, i didnt really mean it as a critique of this case. I currently have Venice 3000+ in my HTPC but im going to replace it with a Yonah T2300/T2400(maybe a Merom if i can wait that long) or a Turion X2.
My current setup only uses one case intake 92mm SilenX fan(apart from the on in the PSU) to cool the Sonic Tower(and everything else :), and i really wouldnt want to make my next HTPC noiser than the current one(which is inaudible when i shut the glass door on the tv stand). What (current) coolers fits in this case and can be just as quiet? Maybe a Thermalright SI-120 as someone mentioned above?

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Post by Jeff Haas » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:11 am

cmcquistion, I'm looking forward to what you figure out. I'm planning on building the same setup, except I think I'll wait for the Fusion version of the case.

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Post by spaceman_spiff » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:20 am

For those who are interested - see my build log in the General Gallery -

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30945

DE

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Post by smilingcrow » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:58 am

mshan wrote:re. Fusion

Will that volume control adjust the global Windows volume control (and thus should work with any Windows program)?
Typically, volume control messages from external devices which I assume the Antec volume control falls into, affect the master volume level of the sound card and not the volume of individual sound card components or application volume output levels. If your soundcard is hooked up to an amp via an S/PDif connection these volume controls may not have any affect on the level output to your amplifier; on my system the analogue output level is affected but the digital output is not, although the mute affects them both. This may vary between soundcards depending on how the drivers were designed or it may be the standard way to do it!

Media players with their own internal volume controls can affect the volume level sent over a digital output; this is because they can affect the signal level that is sent to the soundcard driver, rather than the level that is output from the driver. It is up to individual media applications to decide which volume that they affect; output to driver, sound card master volume, sound card WAVE output volume.

Devices such as keyboards and remote controls that can change & mute the volume as well as performing other multimedia functions usually do so by sending WM_APPCOMMAND messages. They are pre-defined Windows messaging features; not available in earlier versions of Windows.
These messages can be captured by a background utility and remapped so that they are sent to destinations that they otherwise wouldn’t reach.
Example: A media player can capture volume level messages from a remote control that were intended for the sound card master volume and remap them to control the output level from the application to the soundcard. The result of this is that your remote will now affect the volume sent over a digital output.

I know all this because I’ve written my own audio player application and wanted it to be able to respond to the multimedia keys on keyboards & remotes even when it doesn’t have focus. To do this I had to hijack the WM_APPCOMMAND messages and remap them; Windows Media Player is the only other application that I know of that does this.
This whole area needs tidying up within Windows and hopefully Vista will address this, not that I’m hopeful. As it is, I have to check that the application that has focus is not another media player that does actually require the WM_APPCOMMAND messages, before I hijack them. This means that I have to manually register which applications are multimedia players that are allowed access to the WM_APPCOMMAND messages.
This isn’t so much of an issue if you aren’t multi-tasking your media player applications, although on a HTPC system this is more likely.

I know it’s a bit of long answer, but I thought that some HTPC users might find it useful to have some background info in case they are having problems in this area.

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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:55 am

I too would've loved the stealth bays, but the price certainly justifies their absence.

However, wouldnt it be stupidly easy to mod the existing cover on top of an optical drive cover? One would just use a software to open and close the tray. You could simply glue the provided silver cover to your optical drive. Might require some modding in terms of carving/dremelling some pieces off the silver bay-cover.

Is this making any sense?

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Post by amjedm » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:17 am

Was the low speed Scythe fan (800rpm) used for the review?

Can't find a mention of the model number.

Thanks.

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Post by MikeC » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:26 am

Bruce Ballslap wrote:I too would've loved the stealth bays, but the price certainly justifies their absence.

However, wouldnt it be stupidly easy to mod the existing cover on top of an optical drive cover? One would just use a software to open and close the tray. You could simply glue the provided silver cover to your optical drive. Might require some modding in terms of carving/dremelling some pieces off the silver bay-cover.

Is this making any sense?
You mean like this? http://www.techtastic.ca/articles/stealthdrive.html

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Post by MikeC » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:28 am

amjedm wrote:Was the low speed Scythe fan (800rpm) used for the review?
SA1225FDB12L -- 0.13A / 12V

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Post by josephclemente » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:42 am

Bruce Ballslap wrote:However, wouldnt it be stupidly easy to mod the existing cover on top of an optical drive cover?
Very good point! Stealth covers are very easy to do and the eject button still works by just pressing the lower-right area.

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Post by Bruce Ballslap » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:34 pm

Exactly. That's even better, you still get to open it by hand.

This case really is a marvelous product. Your contribution guarantees excellent noise performance, thank you for your great work. And the price Antec pulled with is simply astonishing. I'm looking forward to transferring Xbox 1's insides into this. Finally it can blend in with my silvery hifirack (affordably).

Maybe this case is also an affordable solution to make Xbox360 quiet in an aesthetically pleasing form. You could fit liquid cooling inside it or even better, make it quiet with air-cooling. I wonder if you can install a Zalman on top of the 360's CPU&GPU... Would surely be an interesting SPCR article.

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Post by marcmercer » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:02 am

MikeC wrote:I've been on the hunt for a <120mm tall "tower" style HS off/on for weeks. Perhaps if everyone reading this thread goes on the hunt, we get get a few together to review & try out in the NSK2400.

The Spire SP601B3 I mentioned earlier is OK but not great because the fins are too tightly spaced for good low airflow performance.

Also, the Thermalright SP120/90 work quite well in the NSK2400 if the HS mounting scheme allows the fins to run side to side.

I think the Akasa AK-913 EVO 33 is a possibility with dimensions of 106 x 76 x 118mm. Hopefully the cowling is removable and not integral to the heatsink design.

It's a real shame that the freezer 64 is 6mm taller than it's older siblings as it looks pretty much ideal. I assume that with those heatpipes sticking up 6mm too high we'd need a power bulge? :/

What we really need is a mini ninja - anyone got the email address for scythe product suggestions? :)

Mike - a review comparing suitable heatsinks to running passive in this case would be a great benefit to a lot of htpc builders :)

Marc

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Post by hravn » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:05 am

Bruce Ballslap wrote:I too would've loved the stealth bays, but the price certainly justifies their absence.
What can stealth bays add to the total cost? Not many dollars.. I guess they want people to buy the Fusion instead then if it has them, but then you get the VFD which is a bit of an overkill IMHO. Maybe if they could make them available separately (and Antec, if you're listening, please make extra blank faceplates to the P150 available as well, thank you ;) ).

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Post by cmcquistion » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:40 am

MikeC wrote:
amjedm wrote:Was the low speed Scythe fan (800rpm) used for the review?
SA1225FDB12L -- 0.13A / 12V
Mike, where can you buy this fan? I looked over Newegg and I ended up buying their lowest speed FDB fan (800 RPM), but it looks like this was the wrong one. All their FDB fans have a model number that include SFF21*.

I looked at Scythe's website and the fans they have listed, there, line up with Newegg's offerings. Their FDB fans have model numbers that start with SFF21* and none of them are rated to 0.13A, so I assume that none of these are the fan that you used?

Newegg also sells a DF fan (DFS122512L) that has sleeve bearings, but this doesn't appear to be the fan you used, either?

Was that an OEM fan that came with another product? Something that you can't buy retail? Would the low speed FDB fan that Newegg has be just as good? I assume I'll have to run it at higher voltage, since it is probably a lower speed fan than you used.

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Post by amjedm » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:45 am

cmcquistion wrote:
MikeC wrote:
amjedm wrote:Was the low speed Scythe fan (800rpm) used for the review?
SA1225FDB12L -- 0.13A / 12V
Mike, where can you buy this fan? I looked over Newegg and I ended up buying their lowest speed FDB fan (800 RPM), but it looks like this was the wrong one. All their FDB fans have a model number that include SFF21*.

I looked at Scythe's website and the fans they have listed, there, line up with Newegg's offerings. Their FDB fans have model numbers that start with SFF21* and none of them are rated to 0.13A, so I assume that none of these are the fan that you used?

Newegg also sells a DF fan (DFS122512L) that has sleeve bearings, but this doesn't appear to be the fan you used, either?

Was that an OEM fan that came with another product? Something that you can't buy retail? Would the low speed FDB fan that Newegg has be just as good? I assume I'll have to run it at higher voltage, since it is probably a lower speed fan than you used.
Exact problem I had but I thought I was missing something :?

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Post by MikeC » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:00 am

SA1225FDB12L -- it came from Scythe quite a while ago -- maybe as long as 6 months. We haven't really had time to test it, but it was handy, so I grabbed it and used it.... and it turned out to work well.

It may already have been changed, discontinued, replaced or whatever... Here are other details on the package FWIW -- the ones I can read, anyway. Most of it is in Japanese.

1000rpm, 38.9cfm, 15.8dBA, 12VDC/0.13A. The bearing is described as a "Closed Oil Shaft Carrier".

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Post by cmcquistion » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:26 am

MikeC wrote:SA1225FDB12L -- it came from Scythe quite a while ago -- maybe as long as 6 months. We haven't really had time to test it, but it was handy, so I grabbed it and used it.... and it turned out to work well.

It may already have been changed, discontinued, replaced or whatever... Here are other details on the package FWIW -- the ones I can read, anyway. Most of it is in Japanese.

1000rpm, 38.9cfm, 15.8dBA, 12VDC/0.13A. The bearing is described as a "Closed Oil Shaft Carrier".
"Closed Oil Shaft Carrier"

That kind of sounds like a sleeve bearing, to me...

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Post by MikeC » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:12 am

sleeve bearing, yes -- It's also tagged FDB.

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Post by rage » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:03 am

Product design often involves trade-offs, but it is not very often that we have access to someone who is involved in the design of a new interesting PC case - I like to take advantage of the opportunity to ask MikeC a question:

Was there any consideration that, in addition or instead of the air intake on the left side of the case, to put intake vents on the underside of the power supply chamber similar to what was done for the hard drive chamber?

If the power supply chamber has bottom grill vents, preferably extended all the way to the front of the case, it would offer an air pathway that would help cool the optical drive, as well as any 3.5â€

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