Quiet Mice from Quiet Mouse

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Devonavar
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Quiet Mice from Quiet Mouse

Post by Devonavar » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:16 pm


Shadowknight
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Post by Shadowknight » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:12 pm

Looks at article
Huh, I got mentioned in a review. I've finally hit the big time!*

*Well, not really. I imagined there would be more booze, cocaine, and hookers.

shathal
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Post by shathal » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:47 am

You can now die pecefully, having acheived all your goals? :)

Shadowknight
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Post by Shadowknight » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:06 am

No I still have goal number 64 "Become dictator of a small island nation" to achieve.

Trip
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Post by Trip » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:10 pm

Nice review.

QuietMouse is far superior to the mouse sold by Dot,Com Enterprises. QuietMouse's click is more responsive and quieter, 2 of the 3 of the mice have quieter scrolling wheels, and the mouse optics are far better. I've not used any other quiet mice though - I can't compare QuietMouse to Thanko, for example..

A version 2 of the right-handed mouse you reviewed was sent to me. Its noise issue has been resolved; I'm using it now.

The original version though did have an annoying scrolling wheel. (I was sent 3 mice altogether.)

---

It makes you wonder when a small company like this can produce a quiet mouse and the larger companies like Logitech don't bother with it. Surely I'm not the only one who's annoyed by loud clicks.

I hope there's a market for this. I dunno how long these 2 quiet mice will last me (the third mouse, version 1 of the right-handed mouse, was too annoying since I scroll often in forums), but I hope this company is still around when these mice do break. Clicking without concern that I might wake or bother another is very much a relief for me, though I'm also one who is easily annoyed and bothered by little things...

Greg M
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Post by Greg M » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:28 pm

I think the reason why big companies don't want to mess with a quiet mouse is that it is VERY difficult to mass produce a consistently quiet mouse that has the feel of a regular mouse. Due to slight variations in the manufacturing process, what works well to make one mouse quiet may not work on the next mouse off of the same assembly line. At Quiet Mouse Innovations our mice are made quiet by hand one at a time taking these variations into consideration. This works but it makes for low volume.
The mice from Thanko, Buffalo, etc all use the type of switch found in keyboards and remote controls. I give these companies a lot of credit for their efforts, but their mice have a different tactile feel than a regular mouse. Their switches take much more pressure to activate than a typical mouse.
Making a mouse with a quiet switch is tough. Then you have to find a mouse that does not have any "plastic" noise" to put that quiet switch into. Many mice have plastic noise but you don't hear it because the click is louder. I am sure mass production of a high quality quiet mouse will eventually happen and I look forward to being the one who figures it out.

beoba
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Post by beoba » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:03 am

The audible click is necessary for knowing when the mouse button has been actuated. The original design for the mouse included this sound because it was otherwise difficult to tell when the button press had registered.

This review feels more like an advertisement than a meaningful benchmark, showing only two shoddy models from an obscure vendor without any comparisons to any mainstream brands. Surely there are a couple Logitech or MS mice sitting around the lab that could be compared with these "silent" models?

Other components to consider giving review priority over boutique mice:
* The 7200.11's are now widely available, as are the Spinpoint F1s. How do they compare to the Green Power?
* Video card reviews now come with noise comparisons (at least on the sites I read), and modern cards often come with oversized coolers. Why not cover some of these models and see which give a good performance/noise ratio?

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:49 am

Their switches take much more pressure to activate than a typical mouse.
this might lead to repetitive strain injury for heavy users, so be careful SPCRers. quiet yes, but at what cost?

Greg M
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Post by Greg M » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:31 am

To the contrary, audible clicks are not needed at all. If audible clicks are necessary, how do deaf people use a computer? Have you ever listened to music on headphones while using your computer? Did you hear the clicks? No.
The reason that mice make noise is because of the type of micro switch they use, not because noise is necessary. These switches need to be small to fit into mice and yet give good tactile feel. A typical mouse micro switch is 6x12x7mm in size. Some are only 6x6x7mm, very small. There are billions of these switches made every year, yet not one switch manufacturer who makes this type of switch quiet. The first thing I did when starting out to make a quiet mouse was to find a micro switch that did not make noise. They did not exist. The reason I was granted a patent for my Quiet Mouse is because I was the first to make one of these switches quiet. I have been working on quit mice for over four years. If it was easy you would see these mice everywhere. Remember, the switch is only half of the problem. Finding a mouse without plastic noise to put that switch into is also a challenge.
It is possible that one of the big players have come up with their own design. However, if they are not available to the public, a review of them won't put one on your desk. The only meaningful benchmark is one that you can own.

beoba
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Post by beoba » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:25 am

jaganath wrote:this might lead to repetitive strain injury for heavy users, so be careful SPCRers. quiet yes, but at what cost?
Aside: I highly recommend Workrave. FOSS software that reminds you to take regular breaks.
Greg M wrote:To the contrary, audible clicks are not needed at all. If audible clicks are necessary, how do deaf people use a computer? Have you ever listened to music on headphones while using your computer? Did you hear the clicks? No.
The audible click is there to supplement the tactile click.
It is possible that one of the big players have come up with their own design. However, if they are not available to the public, a review of them won't put one on your desk. The only meaningful benchmark is one that you can own.
A far easier benchmark, which doesn't require speculative purchases (which I'm sure is what you'd prefer), could have been made available here. But failing that, you can do the same thing by just going to any retail outlet that sells mice and check out some display models.

Greg M
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Post by Greg M » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:46 am

I personally do not need a audible click if I have a tactile click.
Others may see it differently, personal choice.
I guess a point could be made that we should also have a light go off and smells commimg out of the mouse so that we can be extra, extra sure that we have pressed the button. At that point tasting the click would be the only thing missing.
I just find the click annoying, and enjoy not hearing it.

PS Quiet Mouse innovations products are only sold at quietmouse.com. We can not produce enough mice to supply retail outlets.

Shadowknight
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Post by Shadowknight » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:15 pm

beoba wrote:The audible click is necessary for knowing when the mouse button has been actuated. The original design for the mouse included this sound because it was otherwise difficult to tell when the button press had registered.
I don't need a click to tell me when I depress the mouse. When I see the effects on my computer screen from the click, or feel the mouse button depress after I push down on it, I KNOW I've clicked/double-clicked. It's not a necessity for everyone.
This review feels more like an advertisement than a meaningful benchmark, showing only two shoddy models from an obscure vendor without any comparisons to any mainstream brands. Surely there are a couple Logitech or MS mice sitting around the lab that could be compared with these "silent" models?
:roll: People are interested in silent products. I've contacted a couple of vendors that sell silent mice (such as Thanko) and suggested they submit a sample to SPCR to review. No response. SPCR depends a lot on review samples being loaned or donated so they can review them. They can't really afford spending cash to buy products to base reviews on.

As to comparison to other mice... it would be more meaningful to compare the Quiet Mouse products to Thanko, Buffalo, or Silentmouse. Comparing it to a normal mouse isn't really a fair comparison, as they are all clicky by nature. I suppose SPCR could offer MP3 files of the mice clicking, but that seems almost silly to me.
Other components to consider giving review priority over boutique mice:
* The 7200.11's are now widely available, as are the Spinpoint F1s. How do they compare to the Green Power?
* Video card reviews now come with noise comparisons (at least on the sites I read), and modern cards often come with oversized coolers. Why not cover some of these models and see which give a good performance/noise ratio?
SPCR regularly does reviews on both hard drives and video card coolers. It is less common for them to review products like mice, external hard drive enclosures or LCD monitors. Believe it or not, some people are interested in other, non-standard pc-parts reviews.

Trip
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Post by Trip » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:30 am

Devonavar,

-------------------------SilentMouse v. QuietMouse

Quiet scrolling Wheel? No, Yes (except for version 1)

Usable off a Mouse Pad? No, Yes

Good click feel? No, Yes

Which has the quietest clicks? QuietMouse

Requires more force than a regular mouse to click? yes, no

Requires expensive shipping from a foreign country? yes (Britain), no

---

For me it was like night and day. SilentMouse did work for my needs, and I was very grateful for its relative silence during the year or so I used it. However, QuietMouse was a Godsend. You describe QuietMouse as cheaply built, but there are variations within "cheap," haha.

I originally gave SilentMouse 9/10 for producing a mouse with quiet clicks, albeit a noisy scrolling bar. But QuietMouse is both quieter and a good deal more usable.

Shadowknight,

I admittedly would have preferred a review that compared Buffalo, Thanko V1, and QuietMouse more directly, though you did a great job nevertheless I think. All I wrote up was a very short post of how QuietMouse was "good" :oops: It's tough to think of ways to judge a mouse: I wanted something that works better than the SilentMouse and is quiet... and I got it.

Thanko V2, which no one seems to have tried or reviewed, is really the only mouse that might be as good. SilentMouse, unless a new version has been released, is significantly inferior to QuietMouse.

GnollMasher
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Post by GnollMasher » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:44 am

Good review, but not what I expected! I was reading it hoping to find a mouse that is quiet while it is not being used. Currently, I have a wired Logitech MX518 that squeeks... Well, okay let me rephrase that :lol: The mouse produces a high pitched noise when powered (even when not used). I tried a Logitech G5, hoping the laser would fix the problem--but it makes even more noise. Damn, so much for the wonders of laser!

I didn't hear this before I built my new silent computer a few weeks ago, but since then it has been bugging me. So go figure, I can't hear my computer anymore but the mouse is squeeking at me! 8)

Thanks all at SPCR, wouldn't have know how or what to do to build a silent pc without this site! Now help me find a silent mouse :wink: I need a big and wired mouse, like the mentioned Logitech models. (Wired because wireless don't work so good with Ubuntu, which I'm using.) If anyone thinks their mouse doesn't squeek, put your ear next to the optical/laser--and I hope I have not awoken you to yet another source of noise by that--and check.

Thanks, Vincent.

seraphyn
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Post by seraphyn » Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:55 am

Wow, i just put my ear next to the laser and it does make a high pitched whine, heh i didn't believe you at first (since i never heard a mouse whine or of people who had problems with a whining mouse :P ). But that is one annoying tone.. luckily i don't hear it unless i put it next to my ear.

GnollMasher
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Post by GnollMasher » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:01 am

Okay, so I'm not crazy and hearing things--phew, thanks for that! And just for the record, I don't use my mouse taped to my head or anything like that :shock: When it's on my desk and it's quiet outside (no birds/traffic/construction work going on) I do hear it however. Buh, we hates it, oh yes we does... But the clicking sounds are starting to annoy me now :roll:

xan_user
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Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:52 am

The sad thing is this problem was solved long ago by a little company called finger works.
They made a keyboard that was two touch panels with the keyboarded printed on it. No moving parts and zero force. It was called TouchStream.
The best part was you used it for the mouse - just like the iphone and ipod touch.
Unfortunately apple bought the patent years back and stopped making them - obviously so the technology could only be used on apple products.....
My friend has one and it is the best human interface EVER and completely silent! Used ones on ebay fetch $1000 or more. I cannot stress how perfect this interface was - no more going back from keyboard to mouse....
The website still exists but only for support.

http://www.fingerworks.com/ST_product.html


*****
Until Apple pulls its head out of its ass, my mouse request's;
larger - for big hands.
silent
ps2 (i want to be able to enter bios w/o searching for my old ps2 mouse)

GnollMasher
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Post by GnollMasher » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:22 am

xan_user wrote:Unfortunately apple bought the patent years back and stopped making them - obviously so the technology could only be used on apple products.....
Spiffy! But goods news, check out this recent post on Mac Rumors about touchpad interface patents filed by Apple. http://www.macrumors.com/2008/02/21/adv ... -and-more/ Seems to me they are about to reuse the technology they bought! :P

[edit]
Doh! I read that to fast, thought you wrote obliviously instead of obvisously. Does make more sense that way around, so the above isn't good news after all I guess :oops:

xan_user
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Post by xan_user » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:33 am

Saw that, thanks.
Just pisses me off, there was no reason to stop selling that keyboard!
this product was ideal almost ten years ago! Gotta love the free market economy.:roll:
I wonder how many needless carpel tunnel cases could have been avoided ?

WTF Steve?

Thread hijack is now over!

Quiet mouse, please keep up the good work!

rickknight
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Quiet mice from Thanko and Buffalo

Post by rickknight » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:57 am

I bought a mouse from Thanko, which was adequately click-free, but of pretty cheap construction, and it stopped working after less than 6 months. It was also uncomfortably small for my big ham-hand. I then bought a Buffalo silent mouse, which has lasted a couple of years, but as stated below has a fair amount of "plastic" noise and also has a squishy feel that is exasperating to use. My daughter can't stand it because sometimes it doesn't click and other times it double-clicks when you don't want it to. It is also pretty small for my hand, but at least it still works. Now that I see the Quietmouse Innovations product (U.S.-made, no kidding?), I plan to give it a try. The vendor comments strike me as very reasonable and match my experience exactly. I hope they are successful.

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Post by Shamgar » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:10 am

Greg M wrote:To the contrary, audible clicks are not needed at all. If audible clicks are necessary, how do deaf people use a computer? Have you ever listened to music on headphones while using your computer? Did you hear the clicks? No.
The reason that mice make noise is because of the type of micro switch they use, not because noise is necessary. These switches need to be small to fit into mice and yet give good tactile feel. A typical mouse micro switch is 6x12x7mm in size. Some are only 6x6x7mm, very small. There are billions of these switches made every year, yet not one switch manufacturer who makes this type of switch quiet. The first thing I did when starting out to make a quiet mouse was to find a micro switch that did not make noise. They did not exist. The reason I was granted a patent for my Quiet Mouse is because I was the first to make one of these switches quiet. I have been working on quit mice for over four years. If it was easy you would see these mice everywhere. Remember, the switch is only half of the problem. Finding a mouse without plastic noise to put that switch into is also a challenge.
It is possible that one of the big players have come up with their own design. However, if they are not available to the public, a review of them won't put one on your desk. The only meaningful benchmark is one that you can own.
I'm beginning to see the benefit of a quiet mouse for my everyday computing. Non-mainstream input devices are of interest to me, and I don't mind paying a premium for a product if it benefits me. Because of wrist pain and RSI, I switched over to an ergonomic mouse two years ago. It took some time to get used to, but I would not go back to using a standard ambidextrous mouse now. So, unfortunately, the Quiet Mouse, despite its merits, is not a product I could own or use in its current form.

There are four tactile buttons on my mouse (five if you include the scrollwheel pushdown function) and each has a different tonality; along with the volume it makes, becomes intrusive and annoying after a while. If these buttons could be silenced, it would definitely make my computing time more peaceful. Considering the buttons get clicked hundreds, even thousands of times in a computing session, quietening those switches could make for an improved computing experience.

Although far from achieving true quietness, there is a way to turn a standard mouse in a "partially silent" one by turning on Autoclick in the mouse's software. When the cursor hovers over the file/button/link/etc., it will act as a single/double click for that item (depending on your configuration). It won't stop the noise from using the other buttons, but "removes" it at least by not needing to press the most used one (left most button for left click function--on most standard format mouses).

I hope there will one day be quiet ergonomic mouses and other input devices. It doesn't bother me that they may not be mainstream or available through typical retail outlets. I personally can't stand any of the mouses on offer from the main players, even their so called "ergonomic" devices.

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Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:58 pm

Shamgar wrote:Because of wrist pain and RSI, I switched over to an ergonomic mouse two years ago. It took some time to get used to, but I would not go back to using a standard ambidextrous mouse now.
Thanks for the tip about Evoluent VerticalMouse. It looks very promising, I just ordered one for myself. Been struggling with hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder pain for years, and it's got worse in the last month or two. I always thought it was more to do with my tennis obsession (been playing regularly all my life, sometimes daily), but a recent series of visits to a new physiotherapist has convinced me it's almost all about keyboard/mouse use. Simply rotating the mouse in my hand 90 degrees to a handshake position is so much more comfortable! High hopes.

Shamgar
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Post by Shamgar » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:23 am

MikeC wrote:
Shamgar wrote:Because of wrist pain and RSI, I switched over to an ergonomic mouse two years ago. It took some time to get used to, but I would not go back to using a standard ambidextrous mouse now.
Thanks for the tip about Evoluent VerticalMouse. It looks very promising, I just ordered one for myself. Been struggling with hand/wrist/elbow/shoulder pain for years, and it's got worse in the last month or two. I always thought it was more to do with my tennis obsession (been playing regularly all my life, sometimes daily), but a recent series of visits to a new physiotherapist has convinced me it's almost all about keyboard/mouse use. Simply rotating the mouse in my hand 90 degrees to a handshake position is so much more comfortable! High hopes.
With all the typing and mousing you must do here and elsewhere, I am sure it has plenty to do with the pain you describe. Extended keyboard and mouse use is an underestimated cause of injuries, until the day you start getting sharp pains in your wrist and forearm. The wake up call for me was several years ago when I was grocery shopping and I couldn't hold the basket in my hand because of the pain I was getting. I went to a GP and he did put it down to excessive keyboard and mouse use. I then researched a solution for ages before I came across the Evoluent VerticalMouse.

Mike, you'll be interested to know that the inventor and owner of Evoluent, Jack Lo, is a real pioneer in his field. A bit like yourself, if you don't mind me saying. The story goes that he took his "handshake" design to the big companies, including Microsoft, and was constantly rejected. Read Jack's story. It's quite amusing and inspiring as well.

For those interested, the VerticalMouse cannot be found in mainstream stores; only in ergonomic specialist retailers. There should be at least one in each major city in your country. Online ordering is a convenient option for people in the US and Canada. From what I know, the VMouse sells well in the corporate and government sectors: a form of preventative measure from lost productivity due to employee RSI. Their other products are just so-and-so. VMouse is their bread and butter. There are currently three versions available, so if you're a lefty, make sure you get the right (left?) one. :wink:

It has helped me a great deal. The handshake grip really works. It's no replacement for taking regular pauses and breaks, but they even thought of that too. The software includes a break reminder. It's possibly the simplest and best mouse software I've seen.

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Post by Ralf Hutter » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:02 pm

MikeC wrote:I just ordered one for myself.
Please keep us informed about your results!

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