My Geode PC

[lowpowercomputing]

Hello!

Now that my experimental box/file server has almost been finished, I think it's time to show you some pictures and to give out some information.

First, the hardware the box is consisting of:

CPU: AMD Geode NX 1750@14W
CPU cooler: TT Silent Boost K7 (fan removed)
Motherboard: PCChips M811LU (VIA KT266A chipset)
Memory: 2x 512MB Infineon PC2700-2533
HD: WD Scorpio 40GB 2.5" (decoupled)
CD: LiteOn 16X/48X DVD-ROM drive (loud, but rarely used)
Graphics card: ATI Radeon 9100 128MB @ 250/200 (fan removed)
Power supply: Morex 120W DC-DC fanless power kit*
Fans: None so far...

Some pictures:


Front view of the case (a generic aluminium one), you can see the DVD drive, the fan speed controller/temperature sensor and the decoupled WD Scorpio hard drive (however, its bay is normally closed).


The inside of the case. There's not much inside it, anymore All case fans (a 40mm on the back, an 80mm in front of the HD cage and an 80mm in the left side panel) have been removed. The Thermaltake Silent Boost K7 heatsink is used without a fan (since this thing was far from being quiet, at least in my ears...) but the temperatures need to be improved. Read on for the temperatures.


The DC-DC board mounted on the upper right side of the case.


A close-up of the DC-DC board with the ATX cable plugged in.


Close-up of the back of the case to show where the DC input connector leading from the power brick to the DC-DC board has been mounted.

The DC-DC board seemed to handle the system fine and it had absolutely no fans and was almost inaudible except for the seek noises of the hard drive. I measured the following power draw:

Idle, HLT enabled: ~37W
Idle, HLT disabled: ~54W
CPU Load: ~60-70W
CPU + GPU Load: ~65-75W

* But unfortunately, the DC-DC board died just after a few minutes of operation and I'm now in the process of returning it. Therefore, I am currently using my old 350W ATX PSU with two fans (but they're surprisingly quiet). The PSU is run externally, placed on top of the case with the cables routed through the back of the case. So the temperatures I have reached should be comparable with these I'd reach with the Morex 120W since there was no airflow in the case and it was closed.

For a comparison, these are the power draws with the 350W PSU:

Idle, HLT enabled: ~44W
Idle, HLT disabled: ~61W
CPU Load: ~65-70W
CPU + GPU Load: ~78-85W

So there's a difference. One important aspect is to enable the HLT function because it significantly lowers the power draw and CPU temperature.

Now let's talk about something to be improved – the temperatures. They were measured at ~15°C ambient temp (the computer's located in the cellar).

Idle: 30-40°C (after sitting idly for about 30mins)
Load (CPUBurn run for 30mins):



It's clear that these temperatures need to be brought down. The CPU is rated for up to 95°C though, but I'd anyway like to see some cooler temperatures. Therefore, next step is to buy another motherboard that doesn't overvolt the CPU and allows futher undervolting. The stupid PCChips board is cooking the poor Geode at 1.4V and it's rated for 1.25V . I'm sure lowering the Vcore to the default for the Geode and maybe even undervolting it further will make the temps drop significantly.

By the way: The graphics card, a Radeon 9100, was originally equipped with a 40mm fan which was running fast and therefore loud. I just removed it and the card has been stable at stock clocks since. Removing the fan only limited its overclocking abilites but I don't care about that. It's perfectly fine for my needs and I'll soon try to underclock (and undervolt?) it.

The performance of the Geode is not that bad. It does SuperPi 1M in 1min22s. I don't know if this can be compared directly with those CPUs, but IIRC, these values are in the range of a Duron-1300 or so. Windows and all programs I use on this box feel snappy and responsive. The boot time's a bit long though, but that's due to the notebook drive.

I don't know if the Geode's a real overclocker, but at 1.4V (+0.15V compared to the default Vcore), it ran perfectly at ~1.65GHz. The board doesn't go higher, but when I get another board I'll probably test the overclocking abilities a bit. My first concern, however, is reducing heat output and power draw...

Feel free to comment my system. Say what you like or don't like and post suggestions how to improve it.

Planned improvements/changes:
– RMA the DC-DC board
– replace the 2.5" drive with a ≥160GB 3.5" drive
– replace the motherboard
– install a slow 120mm fan to generally lower the temps

Eventually, I'd like to thank the entire SPCR community for this amazing and informative website about silencing computers. You've given me more than one good advice. Particularly, I'd like to thank "frostedflakes" – his Turion64 system made me start thinking about doing something like this and now it's about to be finished. It's still not as cool as his Turion64, I think...

Thanks
lowpowercomputing

[NoizEnvader]

...and another Kamakazi silencer joins the team.

[perplex]

Isn't a Pentium-M CPU a better solution if you want fanless CPU operation? I heard the performance of Geode is Very low.

[lowpowercomputing]

@NovizEnvader
Yeah, I can tell the computer is pretty darn quiet, close to inaudible. But there is still room for improvements.
I remember the former times when I had a high-performance main workstation that was incredibly loud for SPCR levels. Then my father bought an Apple iBook which was really almost inaudible except for the (very quiet) HD seeks... And I was infected There was only one thing I wanted to do: Quiet my computer. Since then, I really care about the noise level of (my) computers.

@perplex
You are probably right, the Geode is really no high-end processor. But its performance is sufficient for the tasks the computer has to do. If I wanted a powerful fanless (or at least passive CPU) machine, I would have chosen a Pentium-M or even a Core Duo later... But this box is just a low-power fileserver and testbed where performance is not that important.

For those who are interested, here is a CPU-Z screenshot. Don`t ask why it messes up the word "processor". Probably due to the mainboard



Bye
LPC

[jaganath]

replace the 2.5" drive with a ≥160GB 3.5" drive

Any idea yet what hard drive you'll be going for? Samsung Spinpoint?

Isn't a Pentium-M CPU a better solution if you want fanless CPU operation?

Yes, but it's very expensive (mobo+CPU). There are cheaper ways to go fanless IMHO.

[lowpowercomputing]

Maybe a Samsung Spinpoint. There`s a 250GB drive with 5400rpm. Sounds good. Or one of these new one-platter 160GB Seagates...
I agree that a Pentium-M is very expensive.

[JazzJackRabbit]

lowpowercomputing
Nice project. If I were you I'd rather enclose 2.5 scorpio in a DIY eclosure for a completely inaudible PC though

[jaganath]

Maybe a Samsung Spinpoint. There`s a 250GB drive with 5400rpm.

If you do get this drive (I think this is the V120CE range, model number HA250JC) please post about it in the Silent Storage forum; you will be the first SPCR member to get one!

[lowpowercomputing]

@JazzJackRabbit
Thanks you like it. I'll see what to do about the HD

@jaganath
Yes, it's the HA250JC. I've not yet decided. There's also a 200GB/5400rpm model in the V120CE range, model number HA200JC. Maybe I'll buy this drive instead. But as said before – I'm not sure yet...

Bye
LPC

[Weldingheart]

Nice.

It's clear that these temperatures need to be brought down. The CPU is rated for up to 95°C though, but I'd anyway like to see some cooler temperatures. Therefore, next step is to buy another motherboard that doesn't overvolt the CPU and allows futher undervolting. The stupid PCChips board is cooking the poor Geode at 1.4V and it's rated for 1.25V . I'm sure lowering the Vcore to the default for the Geode and maybe even undervolting it further will make the temps drop significantly

Maybe the load temp can be reduced by removing the aluminium fan shroud on the HS,then bend the copper so it result something flowery like old Zalman flowers(2000,3000,etc).
It suppose to lower air resistance with more spaced fins so it would not heating each other,better for convection.
well it's Kamikaze since you can not resell the HS nor use the shroud&fan.

[wim]

great! first geode system i've seen, i'll be following this one

Planned improvements/changes:
– replace the 2.5" drive with a ≥160GB 3.5" drive

i guarantee you this will not be a improvement, i don't think you will be satisfied with the noise level.. maybe look into remote storage? when you get a new mobo if you can get gigabit lan and try a mapped network drive from another room, and enclose the notebook drive (or try a ram drive!)

[lowpowercomputing]

@Weldingheart
Well, I am not sure if I am brave enough to try this... I think I`ll first try undervolting the CPU.

@wim
Sure, the 3.5" drive will be no improvement concerning the noise, but it`ll provide more storage space. I`ll of course enable AAM and decouple it as I did with the 2.5" HD. As long as it`s not much louder, it`ll be fine. A network/remote drive (attached by an extremely long FireWire/USB2.0 cable) would be a possibility, but I`d rather want to install it internally. A RAM drive is out of question, though.

[samuelt]

Nice system.. got a few questions.

Where did you get the geode processor?
What did it cost?
What socket does it use?

[mattthemuppet]

what I'd do:

undervolt as much as you can (I know you've already said that, but I'm a big fan of undervolting). You should be able to get at least 15% undervolt, perhaps more.

cut a hole in the side panel above the CPU HS and duct it to the HS - if you can fit an 80mm or bigger fan as an exhaust - or if not, open up the top of the case to allow rising air to escape.

open up the HS fins or get a HS with a more open design that'll work better with just convection.

I think you might struggle keeping a 3.5in drive quiet and cool in a case with no forced airflow and such a low noise flow, plus it'll make a fair difference in power draw in such a lowpower system.

It'd make life alot easier in there if you could fit an 80mm+ quiet undervolted fan. The best ones are essentially inaudible inside the case at their lowest voltages and would make a huge difference to temps in this case.

[GameManK]

Nice system. Haha a geode: maybe SOMETHING the silentboost is good for, without the useless fan of course.

Nice.

Maybe the load temp can be reduced by removing the aluminium fan shroud on the HS,then bend the copper so it result something flowery like old Zalman flowers(2000,3000,etc).
It suppose to lower air resistance with more spaced fins so it would not heating each other,better for convection.
well it's Kamikaze since you can not resell the HS nor use the shroud&fan.

It's not Kamikaze at all IMO. I took the fan and shroud off my silent boost and bent out some of the fins. I had a 120mm fan suspended over it. No noticeable difference w/ the shroud vs. without though.
Pushed the fins back together, screwed on the shroud, and sold the HSF along with my motherboard+cpu and haven't had a complaint yet.

[lowpowercomputing]

@samuelt
I came by the CPU on eBay and bought it together with the motherboard and two 256MB PC2100 sticks. It was €100 for everything, although the Geode is sometimes sold separately on eBay, prices I've seen for the NX1750 are between 50 and 70 €, you'd need to convert into your currency.
The Geode NX1750 uses a Socket A, so in theory, every Socket A mainboard should support it, although it is very unlikely to be recognized correctly. Most mainboards will recognize it as an unknown CPU or an Athlon or Athlon XP-M. You should make sure that the mainboard can supply the 1.25V the Geode wants.

@mattthemuppet
I'll soon get a new mainboard hopefully that is able to undervolt to 1.25V or even 1.1V as the CPU is currently being overvolted by more than 10%. I'll then try to undervolt as much as possible.
Your idea with the 80mm undervolted fan doesn't sound bad, there is already a hole in the case's side panel where an 80mm fan is to be mounted, I'll probably build a duct and install a quiet, undervolted 80mm fan to get the air out of the case.
About the 3.5" drive – I know this is going to be a bit of trouble since it'll increase the generated heat and the power draw but I'll see what to do when I install the 3.5" drive. I'd rather not want to install another fan to cool it, though. As long as the temps stay below ~45°C or so, I should be fine.

@GameManK
Well, I must say that I'm not that impressed by the Silent Boost. It is better than the ridicolous 40mm cooler/fan the Geode came with, but its fan is nowhere near "quiet", it's even disturbing at only 6V. At 10-12V, I couldn't stand it...

edit: I've just ordered three 80mm fans running at 1000rpm. I know they won't be moving much air but they'll be very quiet (at least I hope so). We'll see what undervolting these does to the airflow they provide. But I think they will provide enough airflow to get the CPU temps down a little bit... Because of that, I decided to change the thread title since it won't be fanless anymore then.

Thanks
lowpowercomputing

[Mikael]

Interesting project! I see that you haven't posted for a few weeks... Any progress?

It's worth noting that the Geode NX aren't horrible performers, as perplex stated. I think he probably thought of the Geode GX, which is a compeltely different CPU. As can be seen from the CPU-Z screenshot in lowpowercomputing's post, this is simply an AthlonXP Thoroughbred. It's also worth mentioning that the same low power levels can be achieved with any AthlonXP-M, since it's basically the same CPU. You simply just lower the voltage and multiplier.

I had an XP-M 2600+ and an Abit NF7-S 2.0 before and I actually tried this. I lowered the CPU to about 1100MHz and the voltage to 1.1V. This should be much cooler than lowpowercomputing's Geode at 1.4V. The interesting part here is that it was still quite hard to cool it passively. Granted, the Thermalright SI-97 and SLK-900A might not be ideal passive solutions, but still. Temps looked okay in the beginning, but the heat build-up just wouldn't stop and I aborted at around 65C.

It's a shame that I had to sell the whole system. Otherwise I could have made a nice comparison between the AthlonXP and my current Sempron 90nm. From what I have seen so far, though, the Sempron is in a completely different league from even an AthlonXP-M.

[jaganath]

From what I have seen so far, though, the Sempron is in a completely different league from even an AthlonXP-M.

Do you mean it runs much cooler, or it has much more performance?

I had an XP-M 2600+ and an Abit NF7-S 2.0 before and I actually tried this. I lowered the CPU to about 1100MHz and the voltage to 1.1V. This should be much cooler than lowpowercomputing's Geode at 1.4V. The interesting part here is that it was still quite hard to cool it passively.

Apparently the Geode NX isn't exactly the same as the Athlon mobiles, there are some tweaks or something, don't know what they are. I wonder how low LPC managed to undervolt his Geode? An update is eagerly anticipated by all, I'm sure!

[SebRad]

Hi, looks like a "properly" quiet computer to me. Agree with comments that if you go to 3.5" HDD you'll loose the extreme quietness of it. My PC has a Maxtor Diamondmax 10 300GB in it and with all the fans turned right down it's the loudest item, even though it's decoupled and in an enclosure (not that I think it does much) and this is fairly standard PC, albeit modified, with six (yes 6) fans. If you're going to go to 3.5" drive you might as well have some fans too, makes cooling much easier.
For passive CPU cooling I would think a Zalman 6000 or 6100 would work really well, the orientation is right in your case for convection to work best up between the fins.
For a PC I recently quietened down I used an Evercool CUD-725CA as that's what my local shop had for SoA. Turned out to be pretty good, all copper and the 70mm fan was reasonable and gave enough cooling at 5v, at least for the 40w Thunderbird 850 I put it on. I think that as it has unusually wide spacing between the fins is why it works well under-volted and might work for you passively. Definitely for a passive heat sink wide fin spacing is essential, eg I believe the Ninja has 5mm spacing.
Good luck, Seb

[lowpowercomputing]

Hello, sorry for being away for that long time, but I've been rather busy for the last weeks and therefore haven't had much time to play around with the system...

@Mikael

Progress... Well, the 3 80mm/1000rpm fans are here now and I'll hopefully test them soon. I think they'll provide enough air to bring the CPU temps down to a reasonable level, because >80°C is simply too hot, even for a mobile CPU rated for up to 95°C. As you said, the temps are okay in the beginning and stay in the "green" range (45-50°C) if the CPU is kept idly but if I put load on it, heat starts to build up, temperatures rise quickly and it takes a long time until they come down to a normal level. So I am pretty sure I'll either install an 80mm fan directly on the CPU heatsink or in the case to move the hot air away from the HS. BTW, I'm also controlling the temperature of the heatsink by an external thermometer, and they're pretty much the same as the BIOS tells me for the CPU temp.

The 120W DC-DC PSU has now been RMA'd as it failed minutes after turning it on for the first time, I sent it back to the shop where I bought it
about 1,5 weeks ago and haven't gotten a replacement, a message what they'll do or my money back so far. Currently, I'm running the computer off of a 350W ATX PSU with two surprisingly quiet 60mm ADDA fans (but they click on low voltages, unfortunately) which is located outside of the case (see MikeC's external PSU PC mod).

I also want to buy an Abit NF7-S v2.0 (probably used, off of eBay) to undervolt the Geode but so far I've not had the time to look for one. But I'll certainly keep you informed with any progress this system makes.

The Geodes are indeed no bad performers. The SuperPi 1M score should be about the same as the one of a Duron-1300 or so. I once had a VIA C3 933MHz system and this was really slow, so I was (and am) positively surprised by the Geode.

@jaganath

As said above, there's still the PCChips motherboard inside that doesn't support VCores <1.4V. But I am looking for an Abit NF7-S v2.0. So far, no "undervolting" experiments have been done.

@SebRad

You're probably right, a 3.5" drive will be significantly louder than the 2.5" drive I am using now. I'll see if suspending and enabling AAM will help – I am sure it does. There will be some more fans (at least one) in the computer, eventually, because I am starting to realize that complete passive cooling is hard to accomplish. But I have to admit that the (otherwise almost inaudible) WD Scorpio hard drive has this clicking noise that others have been experiencing as well. And I couldn't fix it with the firmware update as it told me the drive's firmware was already up-to-date. Anyway, the Scorpio is a really quiet drive. Even quieter than my old Seagate Barracuda ATA IV (yes, it was a ST340016A and I loved its silence ).

Thanks
I'll keep you informed
lowpowercomputing

[mattthemuppet]

it would be interesting to have some sort of heat + performance comparison between this Geode and a 90nm Sempron ie. get them to the same SuperPi time and measure powerdraw and heat output (or vice versa). The low power computing idea's great, but chips have moved on a lot since Socket A days (pats Skt A PC reasuringly).

[lowpowercomputing]

Do you have a 90nm Sempron to compare the Geode's heat output/power draw with? Anyway, 1m22s is the score to beat in SuperPi 1M. Shouldn't be that hard

I know, the wheel's been turning I'd be interested in a Sempron for S939. IIRC, they were supposed to be released, but so far I've not seen them. Does anybody know more about the S939 Semprons?

lowpowercomputing

[frostedflakes]

I believe the Socket 939 Semprons are only available to OEMs. Occasionally you can find used ones on eBay that were pulled from working systems.

[lowpowercomputing]

Okay, will look for them.

[mattthemuppet]

sadly not - I'm still on Socket A too (Sempron 2400+)!

Semprons on 939 are supposed to become more available towards the end of this year as OEM channels get filled and some spill over into retail. From the review I've seen (Xbit labs?) they're a smidge faster than 754 Semprons of the same speed rating and use the same amount of power (52W for 3000?), but less, both in power and performance, than a similarly rated Athlon64. Should be cheaper too - a winner all round

[mb2]

with 1.1v /1.066 GHz ( http://fab51.com/mobile/tbred/geode_nx-e12.html ) ..u should get very close to 6w typical/9w max.. (compared to 14W typical/ 25W max of default).

bearing in mind your over-volting it too, ur power consumtion will be higher still.. so, dont give up on passive cooling yet

[lowpowercomputing]

I looked for a Sempron-939 on eBay yesterday and there was one but the seller is located in Italy and therefore, payment and shipping could be a little problematic, at least for me...

@mb2
Thanks for the link. I will try undervolting the CPU as soon as I get a new undervoltable Socket A board and see how far I can go at 1.1V.

[yuchai]

There's a deal at geeks.com right now. For about $100 + shipping you get the Geode NX 1750 and Biostar M7VIG 400

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=M7VIG4-COMB29

Just thought I'd share for people who are interested in a Geode system.

[lowpowercomputing]

A little update: the Morex 120W kit has just arrived – it took more than 3 weeks to RMA it... Will hopefully install it on the week-end or so and then share my results with the new one. Maybe I'll also have the time to experiment with the fans.

Thanks
lowpowercomputing

[hmsrolst]

A little update: the Morex 120W kit has just arrived – it took more than 3 weeks to RMA it... Will hopefully install it on the week-end or so and then share my results with the new one. Maybe I'll also have the time to experiment with the fans.

Thanks
lowpowercomputing

Any update yet? I'm thinking about trying the Morex out on a P-M system.