Really cheap quieting

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:41 pm

Ok. I'm not that rich (only 13 lol) and I think I only spent about $40 total quieting this rig and it's as quiet as the best of them. Pics:

the desk. I know the chair is ghey, it's only there b/c my old one broke.

The system. Looks like any cheap homebuild: Drives don't match each other, front panel doesn't match drives.

Internal overview. Looks unassuming except for the Zalman HSF and the HDD on a synthetic ice pack. The other HDD is between an ice pack and a random paperback book.

Crap wire-management. I still get good temps, though.

How my primary 20GB HDD is mounted. In the internal cage, between a bag of Blue Ice and a paperback, so it doesn't contact the case metal.

How my 2nd HDD is mounted. On the case floor, sitting on top of a bag of Blue Ice.

Zalman HSF. It rocks. It's even got blue LEDs.

Case fan. Da-Tech 92mm, pulled out of a 1997 Dell and fanmated.

The fanmate knob sticking out of the serial port hole.

Temps:
Case 30°C idle, 32°C load
CPU 29°C idle, 37°C load
HDD 28°C
in a 19°C ambient.

Questions? Comments?

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:13 pm

I'm guessing most of the $40 went towards the Zalman 7000B?

The primary HDD at an angle makes me nervous. Make sure you back up important data often.

sanse · Post by **sanse** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:14 pm

Chris Chan wrote:Ok. I'm not that rich (only 13 lol) and I think I only spent about $40 total quieting this rig and it's as quiet as the best of them. Pics:

i like the pragmatic attitude, that's lying behind all this.

good temps.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:22 pm

What's the power supply?

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:24 pm

@Lenny: Yes, $30 of the $40 went towards the ZM7K. I may swap the HDD's positions, all that 120GB 2ndary holds is my 9y/o sister's games.
@qviri: AGI HP-P3507F5. Made by Hipro, is not as good as a fortron but better than Deer/Powmax/L&C crap.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:45 pm

Chris Chan wrote:Ok. I'm not that rich (only 13 lol) and I think I only spent about $40 total quieting this rig and it's as quiet as the best of them. Pics:

I personally don't consider $40 to be REALLY cheap, but them I'm the cheapest SPCR'r of them all. For "really cheap", see my Single Fan Madness Gateway--cost less than a penny's worth of electrical tape (to make the fan mod). All the computer equipment was stock; all other components for mods were made out of zero cost junk.

Nevertheless, this is great for first efforts, especially considering your age. Good job!

Perhaps you could rig up your hard drives side-by-side behind the front intake. One easy way to rig them together is if you have some 3.5"->5.25" rail adapters (usually, a retail 3.5" hard drive ships with a set). With these, you attach them perpendicular to your drives so they form a "box". Then, just rest the rails on top of a cold pack, or an old mouse pad.

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:26 pm

You have me beat there, Isaac, but what are the specs on the gateway? I doubt if it can do much more than Word and Firefox. And I don't have any rail adapters. Anyway, I switched around the HDD positions as per Lenny.

theyangster · Post by **theyangster** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:27 pm

is that hard drive at an angle?
could be bad

anyway nice rig

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:11 pm

Chris Chan wrote:but what are the specs on the gateway? I doubt if it can do much more than Word and Firefox.

It depends on what you mean by "much more". It's my Dad's computer; it does everything he ever does with a computer. He's a math professor, so there's a lot of unusual applications he uses. The 500mhz Pentium III is more than twice as fast as what he was using before, so it seems fast to him.

For my uses, a 500-800mhz Pentium III is the "sweet spot". That's fast enough to smoothly play DVD quality videos, but old enough to be found via "dumpster diving". In a year or two, we'll be able to "dumpster dive" for early Pentium IVs, but I'm not really looking forward to that. Early P4s aren't really faster than P3s for anything except video playback/encoding, but they're hotter. I'll be waiting until Northwoods start getting discarded...

A 1.7Ghz Celeron isn't much to get excited about. I'll take an 800mhz P3 over a 1.7Ghz Celeron any day, for everything except an HTPC PVR (the P3 can handle smooth playback or smooth encoding--but not both at the same time).

Conversely, cooling your 1.7Ghz Celeron is more of a challenge. Cooling a Pentium III is really easy. Cooling a P4 is more of a challenge (other than Northwoods).

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:24 pm

Now I get it. Cooling a Willamette isn't too much of a challenge though: only 62W TDP iirc. Northwoods are at around 72-80, IIRC again.

shades_of_blue · Post by **shades_of_blue** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:54 am

Chris Chan wrote:AGI HP-P3507F5. Made by Hipro, is not as good as a fortron but better than Deer/Powmax/L&C crap.

Intel uses Hipro power supplies on some of their lowend servers, primarily the p4 1u servers and some lowend Xeon servers too. So I would not look too down on them, although I'd take an FSP/Sparkle over a Hipro anyday.

computergeek22 · Post by **computergeek22** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:06 pm

Great job, kid. I see you are a fan of Mercedes Benz. Fine cars. Off Topic but those Mercedes AMGs look really nice and are quite powerful as well.

diver · Post by **diver** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:41 pm

By the time this guy is 17 watch out...

Probably have a BS in computer science by 18 and working on a Phd.

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:54 pm

I found the large bubble wrap works good for drive suspension also. I've been running mine for over a year with no problems. It's like Nike Airs for your hard drive. Good work. Don't worry about the HDD. They are fine at any angle. I've checked the HDD manuals. You should dumpster dive for a new chair though.

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:28 am

I definitely agree with autoboy, I'm getting a new one soon (:.
@computergeek22: Good observations, I also have a Mercedes badge hung up on another wall. (not shown) My parents have two Mercedes, I may be in line to inherit my dad's 1996 E320 when i hit 16, he hardly ever drives it anymore.
@shades_of_blue: I'd take a Hipro over Powmax, FSP over Hipro. It seems to be pretty stable, I don't stress it loads though. I have yet to check my 12v rail at 100% CPU, iirc when it was with more case fans dropped to 11.90.

Updated temps (old ones were before I silenced)
CPU: Idle 29, Load 40
Case: Idle 31, Load 31
HDD: 35
Still well within teh safe range.

Le_Gritche · Post by **Le_Gritche** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:28 am

Chris Chan wrote:Updated temps (old ones were before I silenced)
CPU: Idle 29, Load 40
Case: Idle 31, Load 31
HDD: 35
Still well within teh safe range.

CPU at 40°C unde load is indeed well within the safe range, you could slow the CPU fan (I don't know if there is a fanmate or if you can control it with your motherboard)
What is the main noise maker now, the PSU ?

My desk looks a lot like yours, some days I even have to fight with junk papers so they don't cover my mouse pad

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:37 am

I control the CPU fan with the MB's Qfan control. No manual adjustments but i would guess it keeps my fan at ~7v. The main noise makers now are the PSU, CPU fan, and HDDs. Probably the PSU fan most, no idea if it has a thermal control. It's the cheap PSU I got with the case. Too bad the CPU fan makes a lot of noise, I bought it for quietness. Maybe a bit less voltage would help. Not sure if Qfan gives a PWM or straight DC.

EDIT: Did a noise analysis, the PSU and HDDs are the biggest offenders. CPU fan a non-issue next to them.

IsaacKuo · Post by **IsaacKuo** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:15 am

Chris Chan wrote:Too bad the CPU fan makes a lot of noise, I bought it for quietness. Maybe a bit less voltage would help. Not sure if Qfan gives a PWM or straight DC.

Welcome to the true world of quiet computing! As with all newbies, we humored you by not raining on your parade. We all go through this initial period of blissful ignorance where we're so happy to finally have a quiet computer! Ah, the horrible noise is over! That's what we all think after the first quiet computing mod...

...and then the horrible reality sets in. Sooner or later, we each realize that our computer is still making noise, and it's still too much noise.

See, all that REALLY matters is personal perception. As long as the noise is not annoying to you, it really doesn't matter that it would be annoying to someone else. So, we let you enjoy your bliss for as long as you could. "as quiet as the best of them"? No, no, no. Not by a longshot, and easily determinable based on your components. But as long as your personal perception was positive, then all is good.

Many of us started off with Zalman flower heatsinks; unfortunately they just aren't quiet enough for most of us (it seems), even with a significant amount of work. Still...

EDIT: Did a noise analysis, the PSU and HDDs are the biggest offenders. CPU fan a non-issue next to them.

Now you know the horrible reality. You're never going to have the same bliss of silence ever again. From now on, you'll always have this fearful doubt that in a few days you'll start noticing something else making annoying noise.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:09 am

Chris Chan wrote:Did a noise analysis, the PSU and HDDs are the biggest offenders. CPU fan a non-issue next to them.

My WD1200 whines really badly. Don't recall if it gradually got noisier or if it started off that way. It's about 4 years old, and doesn't get used much (sitting in an external enclosure now).

Pretty much the only way to silence a whine is to encase it inside a box. Seeing how expensive those boxes are, you're probably better off just waiting and later upgrading to a quieter drive. Or, since it contains your sister's stuff, just unplug it

Le_Gritche · Post by **Le_Gritche** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:49 pm

IsaacKuo wrote:So, we let you enjoy your bliss for as long as you could.

I feel both sorry and happy for my question about the remaining noise of his computer.
On the one hand the silencing virus scores one more point

, on the other hand I ruined the life of a 13 year old...

Now I know what Dracula feels just after biting a victim's neck

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:05 am

‘ruined [my] life’? Far from it.

Darn, it seems even louder now lol. Still needs work.... And I submit to the silencing virus, you're all Draculas here (:.

Anyway, I got a new case yesterday, I revamped the setup a bit too.

The new case takes only 8cm fans, so I put my best one (nidec Beta V M33414) as exhaust, fanmated.

The fanmate knob sticking out of the other grill.

Opened up the PSU vents, like somebody else here did.

Ducted the PSU to the front, put the HDDs in the air-path.

8cm Superred fan blowing across the HDDs. Checked the specs, said 24cfm and 21dBA. No fricking way 21dBA. At least I have a door.

Front, with the door closed.

Overview, from the side.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:31 am

Now that you have a case window, go and clean up this cabling mess

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:39 am

That's a mess? You should see my school computers.

You can't even see the motherboard when you take the side off.

BTW: And if it's not clear from the photo, the Superred fan blowing across the HDDs is elastic-suspended.

cloneman · Post by **cloneman** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:50 pm

The other HDD is between an ice pack and a random paperback book.

You might want to replace that with something else, probably not a big deal, but dusty paperbacks tend to flame up nicely. You don't want to add things that catch fire easily in your case.

qviri · Post by **qviri** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:53 pm

cloneman wrote:
The other HDD is between an ice pack and a random paperback book.
You might want to replace that with something else, probably not a big deal, but dusty paperbacks tend to flame up nicely. You don't want to add things that catch fire easily in your case.

Paper catches fire at Fahrenheit 451... or 233*C. If anything in your case approaches that temperature, I daresay you have bigger problems than a paperback...

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:25 am

And I had redone that config when I got my new case.

HiFi · Post by **HiFi** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:38 pm

I might be seeing things but your hard drive looks like its SMOKING!

Chris Chan · Post by **Chris Chan** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:26 am

Hifi: It's just a plastic ziploc bag. LOL

Le_Gritche · Post by **Le_Gritche** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

Chris Chan wrote:‘8cm Superred fan blowing across the HDDs. Checked the specs, said 24cfm and 21dBA. No fricking way 21dBA. At least I have a door.

The PSU intake wasn't providing enough airflow for the HDDs ?
Is that because with the front door closed there is no opening for the fresh air to come in that place ? If so, it kind of defeats the purpose of an air duct.

BTW that's a good idea to put the HDDs in the air duct for the PSU. I put my PSU outside of my case, because I couldn't find a way to put and cool everything inside my case. I may reconsider that now. Power and IDE wires might be tricky to pass through the duct, but it seems worth a try as it will allow me to rearrange the airflow around the CPU without worrying about the HDD temp.

lenny · Post by **lenny** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:54 am

Chris, duct tape will dry up and fall off after some time. They also leave residue behind. Clear packing tape (transparent tape used for sealing boxes) works better for me. I usually fold 1/4" at one end over itself to make it not sticky to give myself something to pull if I want to remove it but that's optional.

Really cheap quieting

Really cheap quieting

Re: Really cheap quieting

Re: Really cheap quieting