Silverstone Temjn TJ04 HTP²C Build

[ST]

Just wanted to post some pics of my HTPC build around a Temjin TJ04 Mid Tower Case. Although my previous Silverstone LC-17 was great, I ran into immense trouble with cooling as I went to higher end components (CPU/Video Card/HDDs). All of the available cases labeled as used for HTPC had minimal selection in terms of fan selection (I wanted 120mm all the way around). I will detail the build of this system, I labeled as HTP²C (Home Theatre Performance PC), at a later point with full in depth analysis of each component used.

Here's a scope of the system itself:

- Silverstone Temjin TJ-04 Black Aluminum Front with SECC body
* Panaflo FBA12G12M 120x38mm x2 (Front and rear) case fans
(86.5 CFM / 2100 RPM / 35.5 DB Noise / Hydro Wave BEARING)

- Asus A8N32-SLI nVidia nForce 4 x16 motherboard

- AMD Opteron 165 @ 3.0GHz 1.47V 48C max loaded

- Thermaltake Big Typhoon w/ Panaflo FBA12G12M 120x38mm fan

- Thermaltake iCage w/ Panaflo FBA12G12M 120x38mm fan

- x3 Hitach Deskstar 7K500 SATA300, NCQ, 16MB Cache, Raid 5

- Asus EN7900GT @ 650MHz Core / 1600MHz mem video card w/
Artic Cooling Silencer rev. 2 (hacked)

- Silverstone 460W Power Supply

[nick705]

sigh... every time I see one of these cases I want to get one. The only thing that's stopping me is the thought that I might scratch it, stain it or otherwise deface it, and however much I like it the funds would be better allocated elsewhere....

I'm still waiting for a case that looks like an Antec on the inside, but a Silverstone on the outside. It's just so disappointing that Antec's offerings (the new Solution series in particular) always need to get filed in the "worthy but dull" category...

[thespeakerbox]

damn dude, thats one heck of an overclock on that 165, what stepping do you have?

[Trunks]

With that OC and the Artic Cooling Silencer, I can not imagine this being really quite. Let alone the hard drives open to the front.
So my question: Is it quite?
Also I see no PSU grill, why one on the CPU cooler?

[jaganath]

Looks fabulous and very high-performance. A couple of pics with the side panel on and the case stood upright would be nice.

[Bluefront]

Man do your neighbors complain about the noise ? I appreciate trying to keep things cool, but at the expense of extreme noise......

IMHO.....by the use of a few ducts, I think you could eliminate at least one, maybe two big fans. That open fan in the front would really annoy me. Gotta go.. Lose one HD, open up space between the two remaining. Make the front a vent instead.

[ST]

Hehe, although the concern about noise is warranted, there are two things i do to combat this:

1) I utilize Cool N' Quiet w/ overclocking (see http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30703 guide I wrote) to keep temps down

2) I utilize speedfan so the 120mm Panaflo's run at the minimum 30% amount.

With these two programs, temperatures are extremely low, hence noise held in check to a minimum. I do admit that at full load, noise can be quite audible, but 1) it's expected since i only play games or the like at full load and 2) the Panaflo hydro-wave bearing doesn't have a piercing frequency to their noise (unlike most ball/sleeve bearing), just the distinct hush of air passing through.

Just as an example, my usual everyday configuration runs 1938Mhz @ .99V: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/ ... 4-1938.jpg

I even tried running an extended Dual Prim95 stress test run /w .99V @ 1938MHz with different Fan Speed options. From the Speedfan CPU temp graphs below, you can see with NO FAns (i.e. 0% speed) temps shot it like a rocket to about +47C (from 34C stable with 100% fan speed). When I turned on my 120mm Panaflos to the minimum setting (30%) where it barely turns on, CPu temps recovered down to plateua in the 44C arena. This is utilizing the Thermaltake Big Typhoon HSF:



P.S. In answers to your other questions, the CPU stepping is CCB1E 0608MPMW . No PSU grill because I took it and placed it in the front HDD cage, so the black could match O.o

[toNka]

6 fans...!?
You have to be able to ditch a few of those.
I see what your saying about the temps but...
You probably don't need those front fans at all.
Those will make the most noise and impact temps the least.
Just use negative presure.
With two 120s exhausting plus the typhoon you should be solid.
You might need a duct.
I would even argue that getting a Ninja (if it fits) would be better as well.
That too can eliminate another fan.
In the end though, if you're happy with the sound signature that's all that matters.
Personaly, that intake fan not only looks noisy (I don't care if it's Panaflow@30%) but ugly for an HTPC.

[openwheelformula1]

HTPC? Where are the important PVR parts?

[ST]

I actually have 4 fans total and need them all:

1) CPU
2) GPU
3) HDDs
4) Exhaust

And yes I tried the Ninja, as well as an XP120 before, and wasn't as happy as I was with the Big Typhoon.

As for "where's the HTPC stuff" comment. Sorry, some of us "HTPC" folks don't like to watch T.V., instead concentrate on other nuances like movies. Saying PVR is a prerequisite for HTPC is like stating that having a large screen T.V. is a requirement....well at least I got that covered with my Sceptre 42" 1920x1080p LCD TV:

[jaganath]

well at least I got that covered with my Sceptre 42" 1920x1080p LCD TV

Hot damn! I didn't even know they could make LCD's that size!

[openwheelformula1]

you got the antenna, but no tuner. hmm maybe you are simply using the built in tuners. It qualifies as a HTPC I guess. HTPCs gotta have more functions though, or it's just a normal rig connected to a HDTV. May I suggest: Home Automation? FFDshow?

[ST]

you got the antenna, but no tuner. hmm maybe you are simply using the built in tuners. It qualifies as a HTPC I guess. HTPCs gotta have more functions though, or it's just a normal rig connected to a HDTV. May I suggest: Home Automation? FFDshow?

Honestly, i maybe watch TV maybe once a week at most if at all...yes the antennae is for the built in ATSC tuner...as far as HTPCing goes....there a reason I have 1.5TB of disk space, and in need of more desperately:

http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17427

[klankymen]

I actually have 4 fans total and need them all:

1) CPU
2) GPU
3) HDDs
4) Exhaust

so, are the PSU fan and the lower intake turned off?

[qviri]

Don't copy that floppy...

[ST]

I actually have 4 fans total and need them all:

1) CPU
2) GPU
3) HDDs
4) Exhaust

so, are the PSU fan and the lower intake turned off?

the lower intake 120mm fan is the one i considered for the gpu. it's a requirement since the mosfets of the 7900gt can get quite hot. the psu fan, i don't count...but i guess technically you can say 5 fans. cpu and exhaust fans operate usually at 50% speed / voltage..while the gpu/hdd operate at 35%.

[toNka]

Sorry ST, you must not have done your math homework when you were a child.

Let's count your fans:
1) 120mm in front blowing on HDDs *
2) 120mm in bottom front blowing on the GFX card *
3) 72mm AC Silencer fan on the GFX card itself
4) 120mm on the Tt Typhoon
5) 120mm in the PSU
6) 120mm at the back of the case exhausting *

* These fans might not be needed at all. I'm sure they help a little bit 1C or 2C but at what cost in dBa?

[jaganath]

Sorry ST, you must not have done your math homework when you were a child.

First of all, I think that's an unnecessary comment. He's obviously happy with his setup, and as he said in the first post in this thread "I ran into immense trouble with cooling as I went to higher end components (CPU/Video Card/HDDs)", hence the supposedly "excessive" number of fans. Also, this is a "Home Theatre Performance PC", so you would expect a higher dB count than a normal HTPC.

[toNka]

All this stuff is very subjective: sound, performance, heat.
Some people think there setups are quiet when others would think they are loud.
Some think there setups are fast when others would think they are slow.
Some people think a CPU running at 60C is okay, others would think that's way too hot.
Counting the fans in a case is not subjective though.
Whether or not your okay with the amount of fans is subjective.
All these variables depend on the application.
Who cares how quiet your computer is when all you do when you turn it on is play games at full volume?
Sorry if I sound rude, I'm not trying to flame anyone here.
But the count of fans in this setup is a fact.
I'm just stating the facts.
And unless some of these fans are turned off (0rpm), there are 6.

[openwheelformula1]

"how quiet" only matters to the person who owns it. However, spcr members are more than wecome to critique. I think this forum is one of the best in terms of knowledge, subjectivity and contructive ideas.

[ST]

Sorry ST, you must not have done your math homework when you were a child.

Let's count your fans:
1) 120mm in front blowing on HDDs *
2) 120mm in bottom front blowing on the GFX card *
3) 72mm AC Silencer fan on the GFX card itself
4) 120mm on the Tt Typhoon
5) 120mm in the PSU
6) 120mm at the back of the case exhausting *

* These fans might not be needed at all. I'm sure they help a little bit 1C or 2C but at what cost in dBa?

Wow, talking about being a bit rude, but let's recount what i have done and why for each subjective fan:

1) HDD fan...this was necessary because with 3 HDD's in a RAID 5 configuration, they are almost running all the time and can draw immense heat when loaded (15W per from )http://www.storagereview.com/articles/2 ... 360_6.html. Will I sacrifice all out silence for drive reliabilty? No, but i can still run the fans at the minimum speed to maintain some sanity on the HDD temps and keep my conscious happy.

2) Your presumption might be correct that this 120mm lower intake fan my not be needed, but I am running a volt moded 7900GT at 685MHz Core and 885MHz clock, well beyond its rated specifications of 520MHz/800MHz. Since the VRMs on this particular card get quite toasty, I wanted some air flow directed at it. I could well reasonably utilize the stock hdd cage (http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ ... 030-17.JPG) and combined both fans, but again I wanted a dedicated fan for the video card, not to mention the passive chipset heatpipes cooler.

3) If you are familiar with the AC Silencer line of aftermarket GPU HSF coolers, they are one of the quietest ones available, while also maintaining very good cooling for the GPUs / vmems. The stock HSF on the 7900GT was both whiny and insufficient in terms of cooling for my overclocked gpu/vmem.

4) If you have ever overclocked, much less on a dual core system AND at 3.0GHz to top it off ON AIR cooling, you would know the heat dissappation required is immense (we're talking about 130W+ easily). A good hsf with a decent fan isn't a luxury anymore, but a necessity. Luckily as I mentioned before, I utilize CnQ with overlcocking ( http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=30703 ), thus run mostly at 1455MHz @ .90V (http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/ ... 4-1455.jpg) keeping the temps well in check, thus hardly requiring any cooling.

5) If I could, I would swap out with a better power supply (like a seasonic), but I wanted to maintain a budget and utilize some old components I had from my system. The PSU fan is louder than the usual spcr recommended ones, but still respectable for an older model (see systemcooling.com's review on it).

6) with the heat of a 130W+ cpu, 130W+ gpu, 60W+ from hdds, and other misc components, and not to mention with passive cooling on the mobo chipset, i required a better way to exhaust all the hot stale air inside (the psu was already getting too hot from immense power draw).

I realize that SPCR has high standards in terms of noise, and i never said my system was silent (i have a seperate micro-atx system that would qualify for this , but as Jaganath noted, this was never intended to be completely silent. I am not a fool to believe it is anywhere near some of the great setups here, but if we're using the normal 90/10 idle/load rule, you can see that for the most part, the system can maintain some decency in a lowered volume state. Beyond that, in its most powerful state, at 3.0GHz maxed out, it is a monster to cool and there are probably more effective solutions (like watercooling), but thats the fun in all of this. Trying to maintain a compromise in noise/cooling while working with the dichotomoy of silence and powerful computing! If that is not the spirit of SPCR, I don't know what is (hell even the regular overclocking guys dismiss my undervolting efforts lol). Now, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying my system or my cooling solution is all encompassing or what not....I do want to solicit your feedback so I can potentially improve on it if i can. Again, playing with the noise/speed game is a bit of a challenge and any more effective solutions is quite welcome!

BTW> I added yet another 500GB HDD, and cleaned up more of my wiring job:

[xinzhitan14]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/ ... tp2c-a.jpg
wow big difference in the cabling. is that a thermaltake big typhooon? nice job on cleaning up though ! top stuff.

[toNka]

Sorry if I sounded rude, didn't mean to.
I was just simply pointing out the discrepancy in fans counted.
After all is said and done, you have a very nice setup.
I congratulate you on a high-end/quiet system.
But a quiet system is never quiet.
There is always some new mod to try, right?
I think a system like yours that has several key areas that are capable of creating large amounts of heat could benefit from some ducting.
Isolating the air path so hot air from one area doesn't find it's way to another.
I would suggest isolation these three areas: CPU, VGA, HDDs.
Opening up the PCI slot cover above the VGA and ducting that entire area from the front of the case all the way to the back should be an easy way to isolate the VGA card.
Then if you create an exit path for the hot air coming off all those HDDs your CPU should be in an area of it's own.
Maybe make some exhaust holes on the side panel (which is the top for your orientation) in between the PSU and HDDs and duct the HDDs to this exhaust area.
Who knows, with better airflow patterns you might be able to OC a little more
I wonder what your SPL is with all those HDDs hard mounted?

[toNka]

Oh yeah, your cable management looks a lot better now!

[Mike_P]

I think a SPCR p180 would have suited you perfectly!

[toNka]

I agree Mike_P.
With a P180 you'd have room for tons of HDDs.
And then they'd be soft mounted.
Airflow would be better too.

[ST]

if the P180 didn't look so uglee and cheap with the front black bezel, i would have gone for it I've been a longtime SS LC-17 user, and only upgraded because my it couldn't keep up in terms of cooling. Here's my old setup :

http://htpcnews.com/forums/uploads/post ... 598679.jpg

http://htpcnews.com/forums/uploads/post ... 598817.jpg

TOnka you gave a few good suggestions which i'm trying to see how i can segregate the areas. I already thought about ducting provisions to the top acrylic window to get more cool air in. I just wish someone made a perfect desktop case with 120mm intake and outlet fans with a nice aluminum finish bezel, but no dice thus far

[mattthemuppet]

crikey, that's one hell of a lot of HDDs!

couple of ideas -

doesn't look like you'll be able to rationalise the HDDs any time soon, until the 1 TB ones come out anyway, so one way to keep 'em cool would be to replace the PSU with a straight through design (such as the Antec NeoHE models) and make a duct for the HDDs (top 4 at least). The heat of them may cause the PSU to ramp up a bit, but no more than having a 3GHz dual core underneath a 120mm fanned PSU That way you'll be able to remove the HDD fan, which is the closest one to your ears.

For the GPU, what'd be really interesting to do would be make a side entry duct so you have a fan (120 or 92mm) parallel to the card blowing directly onto it and into the AC fan. Duct this and the GPU would have nice cool outside air, plus it'd remove another fan from the front of the case. If you want to be really clever, you could seal the duct tight enough that you could dispense with the AC fan entirely and still cool the card VRMs.

Take those 2 sources of heat out of the case and you should be able to run your exhaust and HSF slower with the same temps, theoretically at least and as long as the front intake isn't too restrictive. To that end it'd be worth opening up the front and rear intakes if you haven't already.

Slightly wacky ideas, but I think you need to work from the leftfield a bit to keep all that cool and quiet

[ST]

cleaned up the wires one more time...



still trying to figure out the best way to cool this puppy though...might have to move to a new case, again.

[Bluefront]

Heh....now you're up to four hard drives, six fans, a smoking hot CPU and GPU, over-clocked, and you're still posting on SPCR, asking for advice?

Seriously......without a ducting solution, you will continue to have heat problems, requiring an immense amount of airflow/noise. I would at least remove two of the SATA drives and mount them externally. That would make the remaining two drives run cooler due to better airflow. Maybe they could run passively.

You have a typical airflow setup.....the PSU fan, the CPU fan, and the rear case fan, are all pulling air from the same space. This makes for more noise and reduced airflow. You can do better than that.....but it will require mods or a new case. If a quiet computer is a goal at all, you have a long way to go....