My NSK2480B HTPC

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:48 am

Just got the case delivered on my door by TNT, so I figured I'd do a little worklog up until the final product is done.

Note: The case differs from the NSK2480B pictures floating around on this forum. My version does not have an aluminium front, nor does it have stealthed baycovers or a firewire connector in the front. It just looks like a ordinary NSK2480, but completely black.
Front picture (173KB)

The planned build is as follows:
Antec NSK2480B
Silverstone ST30NF PSU
Silverstone MFP51 Black LCD display w/ IR remote sensor
2 x Noctua NF-S12 1200rpm case fans
Samsung 2,5" 160GB HM160HI (1 platter)
Asus P5E-VM HDMI
Intel Pentium Dualcore E2140 1,6GHz (placeholder for a lowclocked Wolfdale)
2 x 1GB Crucial PC-8500 (1066MHz) DDR2
Ninja Mini

Additions that will follow at a later date:
Logitech Dinovo
TVTuner card
Passive GFX (HD3850/3870 or 8800GT) for some low intensity gaming goodness.

Assembly:
First step was to figure out how to make a cradle for the harddisk. Using the Harddisk brigde and a little fantasy I came up with this.
Custom made suspension bracket (219KB)

Cable management in this case is really a joy. Only part I had a bit of trouble with was the 4 pin motherboard power connector. It's way to short on this Silverstone PSU. Without an extender I would have had to pull it straight across the motherboard. Not a wanted scenario.

Case done. (254KB) Next up is the heart and mind of the setup

More to come.....

Motherboard is Fully assembled (313KB). The Ninja might be called mini, but it still has a massive footprint.

Was a bit hard getting to the push-pins and p4 power connector after i got the MB inside the case. Stupid me managed to break one of the pins on the q-connector . Thing is a lot more fragile then it looks.

Wiring is still a mess (274KB), but it powers on and detects everything it's supposed too.

And ofcourse there are some bad news. The PSU is making a horrible loud tikking sound once i power on the PC. Everything seems to be working fine, but it's going back to the shop for a replacement ASAP. Good luck to me getting a speedy replacement this close to Christmas. Seems I have to live with the Earthwatts PSUthat came with the case for a little while longer.

Operation:
I haven't quite managed to get the fans under control yet as the AiSuite software keeps crashing with an error in the CPU identification dll, so they are both running at full tilt (1280rpm). The initial results will reflect that the case is running with superior airflow compared to what the final result will use.

Been running all night with Prime95 25.5a running on both cores, along with rthdribl to make this as punishing as possible. Room temperature is in the low 20s, and the comp is standing fairly close to a window so it's a bit cooler there then in the middle of the room (it's -10C outside). CPU spiked at 37C, and chipset stabilized at 35C. CPU heatsink is cool to the touch, northbridge is luke warm and southbridge is warm, but not even close to uncomfortably so.

Harddisk noise is a none-issue as far as I'm concerned. Have yet to hear a peep from it, and temperature is stable at ~30C during heavy operation.

Update: Just reduced both Noctuas to about 600rpm while running the test described above. CPU spiked at 43C while the Ninja was still cool to the touch. The Northbridge saw the highest increase in temps. It spiked at 42C, and was uncomfortably hot to hold my finger against. The southbridge also turned hotter the previously, but not as much as the northbridge.

Moogles · Post by **Moogles** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:04 am

That case looks excellent! Did you import it from Australia/Japan? Much nicer than the Fusion black, and no VFD/IR issues. Does it match the MFP51's color?

You're pretty much building the perfect HTPC, imo. I might copy your build as soon as the NSK2480B is available in Europe. Give us an update on how your passive PSU is working out.

Btw, do the Noctuas have a molex connector attached to them, or just a 3 pin?

Good work on the HDD suspension as well, but I wonder if it's necessary?

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:20 am

I imported the case from Australia, which btw. is not a recommended course of action if you value your money. Case cost me about 100USD, express shipping another 250USD. Normal shipping would have been 200USD.

The color match is almost perfect. The MFP51 is a tiny bit "blacker" because it is a bit more shiny with it's alu front, but the case front also has a very nice and shiny finish. You don't really notice it's plastic at all.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the passive PSU once I put a ~100W GPU in there. Should have no problems before that though. And in any case.... I have a Corsair HX-520W in another comp i can switch with.

Noctuas come with a 3pin-to-molex converter, and another 3pin-to-3pin extender with a tiny resistor on to slow the fan rpm down.

And the suspension; I have no idea if it will matter, but I can be 100% certain it won't make any more noise this way so it can't be all bad

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:12 pm

Updated with some more pictures and info. Silverstone PSU is a bit broken though. Will need to get a replacement for it.

yamahaSHO · Post by **yamahaSHO** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:50 pm

Locklear wrote:I imported the case from Australia, which btw. is not a recommended course of action if you value your money. Case cost me about 100USD, express shipping another 250USD. Normal shipping would have been 200USD.

The color match is almost perfect. The MFP51 is a tiny bit "blacker" because it is a bit more shiny with it's alu front, but the case front also has a very nice and shiny finish. You don't really notice it's plastic at all.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the passive PSU once I put a ~100W GPU in there. Should have no problems before that though. And in any case.... I have a Corsair HX-520W in another comp i can switch with.

Noctuas come with a 3pin-to-molex converter, and another 3pin-to-3pin extender with a tiny resistor on to slow the fan rpm down.

And the suspension; I have no idea if it will matter, but I can be 100% certain it won't make any more noise this way so it can't be all bad

WOW! $350?! I would have just bought the silver one, taken the front panel off an painted it.

The build looks good though.

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:58 pm

Had to take care of some personal stuff today, so I didn't get as far as I would have hoped. BUUUUUT, I managed to grab some quick numbers after getting the OS up and running and finishing the driver installations.

I haven't quite managed to get the fans under control, so both Noctuas are running full tilt (~1250 rpm). Even removing the top cover had very little to say on the overall system temperatures, so airflow looks to be excellent. The difference was only 1-2C.

Running Prime95 v25.5a (dual core support) in Torture testing the highest temp I've seen on the CPU so far is 36C, and the chipset has maxed out on 34C. The arctic silver on the CPU hasn't cured yet, so this might drop a little after a day or two.

Using the trusted manual temperature reader, my hand, tells me that the Ninja isn't even luke warm. Northbridge is surprisingly cold to the touch too, and practically on par with the Ninja. Only thing that was slightly warm was the southbridge, and that was nowhere near hot to the touch. I can hold my sensitive, already blistered finger there with no discomfort for as long as I want.

PS! the temperature reporting in bios version 0202 is WAY off. It was reporting idle temperatures of 17C (lower then room temperature). Bios 0301 fixes this.

The harddisk is also practically noiseless. During defrag I had to take off the top cover and put my ear on top of the HD harness to any sort of mechanical noise. I highly doubt it's audible even when I get the fans down to half speed.

autoboy · Post by **autoboy** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:24 pm

The passive PSU will have trouble in the enclosed space of the NSK2480. Passive PSUs are not designed for NO airflow situations. They are designed to be fit in standard ATX cases with negative pressure cases were the pressure of the fans blowing out of the case will draw air across the PSU, cooling it. Since the 2480 has a separate chamber for the PSU, there will be 0 airflow through that part of the case and the PSU will bake in the case until it overheats and dies or shuts down for safety.

I have a semi passive PSU in my NSK2400. It is an Antec Truepower 430 modded with a Yate Loon low speed 120mm fan (similar to Nexus 120) and the fan does not start on the PSU when you first turn it on. My PSU runs passive for much of the time and the fan turns on only under full load to cool the PSU off. It can actually get pretty hot in that chamber before the fan turns on. My system uses only 70W at full load and I still have a backup fan if the PSU gets hot. I would never run a PSU passive in a closed environment without a backup fan. You are asking for problems. Take your stock antec PSU and throw in a lower speed 80mm fan and get rid of that passive Silverstone that you overpaid for.

Otherwise, the build looks great! Love the black. Wish mine was.

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:37 pm

autoboy wrote:The passive PSU will have trouble in the enclosed space of the NSK2480. Passive PSUs are not designed for NO airflow situations. They are designed to be fit in standard ATX cases with negative pressure cases were the pressure of the fans blowing out of the case will draw air across the PSU, cooling it. Since the 2480 has a separate chamber for the PSU, there will be 0 airflow through that part of the case and the PSU will bake in the case until it overheats and dies or shuts down for safety.

I was a bit skeptical to begin with to, so I have a backup plan. In my fileserver I have a Corsair HX520 that I can swap the Silverstone for if the temps get out of hand. The fileserver has more then enough airflow to keep a passive PSU happy. I'm gonna give it a shot though. Want to see how it works out before I do the switch. I pretty much planned on doing it anyways when i change the CPU for a low-clocked Wolfdale and include a GPU. Because of the extension clips I use on the 4pin and 24pin motherboard connectors and the easy to remove 5,25" rack, a PSU change is pretty much just plug and play. Won't take much time at all.

Jay_S · Post by **Jay_S** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:54 am

Hello!

I just received the same MB and will build with a E2160 as soon as my RAM arrives. Because I don't have the ram yet, I havent started the build.

Are you overclocking at all? I don't quite understand the memory divider options in BIOS. From BIOS screen shots around the web, it doesn't look like memory divider options are expressed in "X:Y" notation. Instead, you pick a speed you want your RAM to run at? Is this right? I plan on taking my E2160 up to 3GHz (FSB 333MHz). I want a 3:5 divider to keep my ram at DDR2 800 speeds. Do I pick 800MHz for RAM speed in BIOS?

Maybe it will make more sense once I'm assembled and running. I (clearly) don't have much experience overclocking.

Thanks for the pics of the P5e-VM with Ninja mini in the NSK2480 - I'll be using the same Minja in the original NSK2400. Looks like a perfect fit.

Jay

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:01 pm

Jay_S wrote:Are you overclocking at all? I don't quite understand the memory divider options in BIOS. From BIOS screen shots around the web, it doesn't look like memory divider options are expressed in "X:Y" notation. Instead, you pick a speed you want your RAM to run at? Is this right? I plan on taking my E2160 up to 3GHz (FSB 333MHz). I want a 3:5 divider to keep my ram at DDR2 800 speeds. Do I pick 800MHz for RAM speed in BIOS?

I wasn't overclocking, but you peeked my interest by asking. I have just set the ram to DDR800 (will push it to DDR1066 eventually as my ram is rated for that speed). Just by changing FSB to 333 the PC booted into WinXP at 2,67GHZ, and has been running Prime95 for 15 minutes or so. Apart from the CPU temp rising ~6C I've seen no other abnormal behavior. Didn't even have to touch the core voltage and it's still running at ~1,25V.

Edit: makes you think about what these low rated CPUs really are capable of when put on a good motherboard.

Jay_S · Post by **Jay_S** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:35 am

Locklear wrote:I have just set the ram to DDR800 (will push it to DDR1066 eventually as my ram is rated for that speed). Just by changing FSB to 333 the PC booted into WinXP at 2,67GHZ...

Great! Just so I fully understand what you're saying...

1) you picked DDR800 in bios
2) you changed FSB from 200 to 333

Did changing your FSB affect your RAM frequency? Or, once you selected DDR800 is your RAM locked at that frequency? Is the RAM clock independent from the FSB?

Thanks!
Jay

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:48 am

Jay_S wrote:Did changing your FSB affect your RAM frequency? Or, once you selected DDR800 is your RAM locked at that frequency? Is the RAM clock independent from the FSB?

RAM and FSB are totally independent. They won't affect eachother.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:04 am

partially true. no, they really wont affect each other, and you're able to do just about whatever you want to them, but its better to have the FSB and RAM speed at a 1:1 ratio. quad core @ 1333mhz bus is basically quad pumped 333mhz, DDR2-800 is just dual 400...close enough for most? but its better performance than having the 333mhz bus with DDR2-667, you get better speeds with the faster RAM.

since you're overclocking, you want the closest ratio to 1:1 that you can get on this to ensure performance.

if you're curious, go to google and search for "relationship between FSB and RAM" you'll learn plenty about it.

Firetech · Post by **Firetech** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:20 pm

Locklear wrote:I imported the case from Australia,

Which vendor in Australia, may I ask?

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:27 pm

Firetech wrote:Which vendor in Australia, may I ask?

www.ozdirect.com

Jay_S · Post by **Jay_S** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:34 pm

Locklear wrote:I have just set the ram to DDR800 (will push it to DDR1066 eventually as my ram is rated for that speed). Just by changing FSB to 333 the PC booted into WinXP at 2,67GHZ...

My build is finally up and running, and it's almost identical to yours. I have the E2160 and 2 Yate Loons @ 5V.

Everything seems to be working ok, except for VMR9 rendering in media player classic. Overlay and VMR7 work fine, but VMR9 has jaggies/macroblocking-like effects. Very strange.

MY FAVORITE FEATURE THOUGH, is the ability to write custom resolutions and timings to the registry with the DTD Calculator tool described in this avsforum.com post. After adding a 1280x720, 48Hz mode, I can swith between 60 Hz (for ATSC HDTV) and 48 Hz (multiple of 24 fps for film-based DVDs) right inside the Intel graphics properties app. This is essentially a free, lightweight replacement for powerstrip, which doesn't support IGP.

I've have not started SERIOUSLY overclocking yet because at stock speeds, with the fanless ninja mini, Core Temp 0.96, Prime95 (multi-threaded), I'm peaking around 58 C. For kicks I punched in 333 FSB - stress-test temps reached the 60 C point in about 5 minutes and I aborted the test.

So I'm thinking about some additional cooling. I think you/I could fabricate a simple duct or shroud that would cover the ninja mini and the rear 120mm chassis fan. The goal: directly pull all chassis air through the ninja mini. Right now, I'm sure a LOT of air is slipping around the ninja. Might be able to get away with only 1 exhaust fan too.

Jay

Jay_S · Post by **Jay_S** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:04 am

Locklear wrote:Running Prime95 v25.5a (dual core support) in Torture testing the highest temp I've seen on the CPU so far is 36C

Locklear,

By the way, your temps are much lower than mine. At stock speeds, my (0.2 GHz faster) CPU is 22 C hotter at load? I idle around 35 C and ambient here is 19.4C. Something seems wrong. Just curious - what are you using to monitor temps? The Asus utility? If you're not already using it, try Core Temp and see how it compare to the Asus utility. Core Temp's marketed advantage is that it reads from the temp register within each core and is not subject to application "bias".

If you're getting good temp readings, I need to start troubleshooting!

Jay

Locklear · Post by **Locklear** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:59 am

Jay_S wrote:By the way, your temps are much lower than mine. At stock speeds, my (0.2 GHz faster) CPU is 22 C hotter at load? I idle around 35 C and ambient here is 19.4C. Something seems wrong. Just curious - what are you using to monitor temps? The Asus utility? If you're not already using it, try Core Temp and see how it compare to the Asus utility. Core Temp's marketed advantage is that it reads from the temp register within each core and is not subject to application "bias".

If you're getting good temp readings, I need to start troubleshooting!

Overclocked to 2,67GHz@1,25V, 1066MHz DDR2. Both Noctuas are running at ~850rpm because I'm using the chipset fan header (CPU fan header doesn't control none-PWN fans)

Right now I'm running Folding@Home on both cores and the asus software is showing 42C. Speadfan is reporting 42C on CPU, and 44C on both cores (Intel CORE sensors). Core Temp is reporting 55C and 59C on my cores, which I can tell you right away is wrong. The heatsink is barely lukewarm, even at the base and heatpipes. No way the E2140 CPU running at 55C has a much cooler heatsink then my X2 w/large ninja running at 50C. CoreTemp is also reporting core voltage 0,75V higher then the other monitoring software i have running.

If you ask me, debugging should start with changing monitoring software :p

Jay_S · Post by **Jay_S** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:30 pm

Locklear wrote: Right now I'm running Folding@Home on both cores and the asus software is showing 42C. Speadfan is reporting 42C on CPU, and 44C on both cores (Intel CORE sensors). Core Temp is reporting 55C and 59C on my cores, which I can tell you right away is wrong. The heatsink is barely lukewarm, even at the base and heatpipes. No way the E2140 CPU running at 55C has a much cooler heatsink then my X2 w/large ninja running at 50C. CoreTemp is also reporting core voltage 0,75V higher then the other monitoring software i have running.

If you ask me, debugging should start with changing monitoring software :p

OK, so our load temps are very close:
Me
- Core Temp: 57-58 C
- SpeedFan: 43 C
You
- Core Temp: 55-59 C
- SpeedFan: 42-44
But the thing is, there is evidence that speedfan core sensor readings are 15 C low for C2D processors. Notice that there is about a 15 degree difference between our SpeedFan and Core Temp readings. Reference: AnandTech's Motherboard/CPU Utility Roundup and HardForum C2D Overclocking Guide. On my system, Intel's TAT reports the same temps are Core Temp.

Hmm...
Jay