My P182,Q66,9600GT,HX520 adventure... need tips.

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AckeDman
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My P182,Q66,9600GT,HX520 adventure... need tips.

Post by AckeDman » Sat May 17, 2008 2:42 pm

Hi everyone. I have been coming to SPCR almost every day to suck in as much knowledge as i can. I have taken inspiration from diffrent people and builds here but i have also made som misstakes.

It started out when i bought a new computer with these parts:

Case: P182
CPU: Q6600 GO (currently@3ghz with hottest core on 59c on full load)
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-P12 (NF-P12 fan and NT-1P TIM included)
GPU: Gainward geforce 9600GT
Memmory: 2x2048mb Corsair PC-8500
HDD: 1x250gb seagate + 1x320gb seagate
PSU: Corsair HX520w
Fans: 2xNoctua NF-P12 + 1x Scythe kamabay.

Im running all my noctuas with U.L.N.A adaptors and scythe kamabay runs at 800rpm at default.

Problem is my comp is really not quiet. You can hear it from 5m. I have tried to identify the noisest component and even thou the GPU fan is somewhat loud its not the only problem. Ive tried stoping the GPU fan and even then i can hear the system. I know the Noctuas arent really 100% quiet but they arent hearable from >1m and thats good enough for me.

A picture of my current set up.

Image

I need some advice on exactly how i should proceed to get my system quiet. How far do i have to go to not be able to hear the computer humming when im working next to it.

I do already know i need to change the GPU cooling because the fan is like 60mm or something and thats just unneccasary considering it might run passive with a Accelore S1 (it runs at 40c idle with the stock cooling.) or at the very least i can put a really undervolted nexus or slip stream on it.

But that problably wont be enough. Should i tape of the top ventilation and what effect will that have on my system? will it get quieter? will it get hotter?

Do i need to change PSU fan? or is the HX520w fan quiet enough with my current system?

Im considering selling of my HDDs and buying 1xSamsung 750gb HDD and then putting it in a Scythe quiet drive and see how quiet it becomes (maybe even suspended if i am up for it) but this would mean i would have to remove the scythe kamabay... but it doesnt really do much cooling anyways and i could always just put a fan at the upper HDD chamber.

Please help me out guys.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sat May 17, 2008 3:01 pm

1) yes, tape over the area where a top fan would go. a trick to use when doing so is the fold over about 1/2" of the tape on one or both ends. that will create a "pull-tab" of sorts, which would make it easier for you to remove that if you so desired in the future.
effect: at first it may seem that the system is getting hotter, and this is normal. what's happening is that the exhaust fan is taking air in from that area, and not actually cooling the computer.

2) An Accelero S1 Rev 2 would help your 9600GT a lot. I use an S1 on my ECS 9600GT, and my temps max @ 53C at full load using ATi Tool.
effect: ambient temps may appear to rise 1-3C, but don't worry about that very much as long as the GPU has *some* form of air flowing over it constantly.

3) the HX520 is fine in my opinion, but having never used an Corsair PSU, i can't say too much. my suggestion would be to try and turn the PSU over however.
effect: heat rises. you're breaking this law of nature with how the PSU is mounted. heat is rising to the fan, and the fan is only trying to push it down and then push it out. the PSU fan is raising its RPM to do so.

4) I see that you're using the stock PCI backplates. In many ways I think that that's a fine thing to do, however you may want to try and obstruct them to see if it makes a difference in temperature. you don't want to remove the one right by the 9600 where the cooler is, but you don't want to alter the airflow of the case to a point where its no longer front > back.

5) You may not need a fan in the lower chamber. my suggestion would be to test removing the fan after flipping the PSU over. if the temps of the drives go past 42C, then put the fan back in place, but if the temps remain stable in the 30's C, don't worry about the drives, its a perfectly fine temp range (32-38C) for any 7200RPM drive.

6) Remove the fan from the Kama Bay. don't take out the Kama Bay though, it will provide extra room for air to go into the case, but the fan is unnecessary.

Don't change your drive setups, its fine how it is, but you may want to suspend the drives in the lower area rather than having them in the drive cage. a possible solution is to also find a way to dampen the drive cage so that it's not making so much direct contact with the case itself. the vibrations from the drives will resonate a lot. there's no getting around that without suspending or softmounting them.

i hope that helps you out with the noise and temps of your rig.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Sat May 17, 2008 3:37 pm

Wow!... thanks for the feedback... i think i understand most of it.

I do have some questions thou.

1. Do you mean that by taping over the top vent it will improve sound or do you mean it will improve the cooling? Either improvment is fine by me but im just curious as to why that is.

2. Is the Accelero enough passive or do i need to mount a fan on it? Hopefully it will be enough for me to just mount a 120mm fan on the top HDD chamber as that would be much easier to mount then directly on the Accelero. (How difficult is the installation of the Accelero?)

3. Ive thought about flipping over the HX520 but i thought it be better for the fan to face up but apperantly it isnt.

4. I am confused as to what you mean. Do you mean that if i taped of the PCI-backplates except for the one next to the 9600GT it would force the air to come out thru that backplate and there by cooling the 9600GT heatsink?

5. I think i need to have the fan in the lower chamber as my current HDD temps are 39c WITH the fan. And this is now that i changed to a pull config. When the fan was push on the HDDs the temps were at ~45c. I dont really care that much about HDD temps but i heard that if they go over 50-55 they might stop to cool them selfs wich would be unbearable.

6. If i remove the fan from the kama i dont really see the point of a kama to be there at all. If i remove the fan in the kama then its just a dustfilter.


I have feelt the vibrations on the drive cage so i know they create case resonance but i am planning on handling the suspension later.

Anyone here who have had any experience with suspending a drive both with and without a scythe quietdrive?

Im not shure im up for the whole suspension thing... i rather just remove the kamabay and use a scythe quietdrive and hope the quietdrive takes care of all the noise... but i guess thats just being naive.

Its 01:37 am here and im soooo tired... Really big thanks for the feedback.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sat May 17, 2008 3:57 pm

1) in a way both. the temps will in fact go down because it will be exhausting the hot air from the case, and the hole wont be open for noise to escape either.

2) the accelero should have no problem running passively. the installation is not brain surgery, however it does require some coordination to flip the card over and install everything without letting one of the screws or spacers fall out (and to line it all up properly as well).

4) in theory, yes. there's no saying that it will truly make a difference or not, but there's only one way to find out right?

6) well, if you remove the Kama, you'll have either a gaping hole in the front of your rig, or you'll put in three solid drive bay covers. i'd rather neither, so using the kama bay as a filter will add to the amout of cool air that can reach the RAM, CPU and VRMs.

i understand the suspending thing. for a day i had one of my drives suspended, but then i just ended up tying it down onto a piece of foam to kill the vibrations. for all i know from sitting next to my computer, there's no difference between suspending the drive and leaving it on top of some foam.

with the exception of heatsinks, i haven't really bothered spending money on quieting my computer. drives are drives, and until we all have solid state they'll make some sort of noise.

sanse
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Re: My P182,Q66,9600GT,HX520 adventure... need tips.

Post by sanse » Sat May 17, 2008 11:28 pm

AckeDman wrote:Problem is my comp is really not quiet. You can hear it from 5m. I have tried to identify the noisest component and even thou the GPU fan is somewhat loud its not the only problem. Ive tried stoping the GPU fan and even then i can hear the system. I know the Noctuas arent really 100% quiet but they arent hearable from >1m and thats good enough for me.
probably your computer is quiet, but not silent. that's very difficult to achieve with the present technology if you also want to have a computer that performs and doesn't catch fire on tropic days.

with fans in the end it's a tradeoff between temperatures and audibility. and harddisks do hum a bit, even when mounted in antec bays with silicone dampeners.

my advise would be to mount the hdd's in boxes or suspend them. for the fans i would add a fancontroller, automatic or manual, what you prefer.

have a look at my project for the solutions i choose (adding a fully automatic fancontroller and accepting the slight hum of the drives):

viewtopic.php?t=47722

The Judge
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Post by The Judge » Sun May 18, 2008 5:44 am

Oh nice. Came across the perfect topic. AckeDman, I'm having the same problem as you and I have nearly the exact same setup. Only differences are that I grabbed an 8800GT, have a Scythe Ninja as a CPU cooler and have only one 750GB drive instead of your two.

The 8800GT is causing a bit of noise I think but it's by no means the biggest culprit. I'll add an Accelero S1 at some point but the fans are my biggest issue. I'm using the stock Tricool ones but they are just far too loud for my liking. I don't know what I'll replace them with but I will replace them at some point.

The issue I'm having is that my temps seem a bit high even with all these fans though. At stock (2.4), my Q6600 is running at aroung 28-34 at idle, with all the fans on low. This is my first build so I'm not sure if it's the way I'm putting on my AS5 or whether it's something else.

To get around the sound issue, I tried disabling the top fan and the cooler fan. This jacked up temps to around 35-44 at idle which is vaguely acceptable although I didn't stress test it. The sound was still too much for my liking. I will probably remove the lower fan though as people seem to say it's unnecessary.

Either way I'll be closely monitoring this topic. Good luck.

Ash
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Post by Ash » Sun May 18, 2008 6:24 am

i agree with most of the suggestions made by the guys on here.

i would remove the fan from the lower chamber, hd temps wont get that hot.
place the fan from the lower chamber as an intake fan at the front middle of the case. that should be enough to cool you GPU and MB and providing some intake if you are going to remove the kama bay.

you dont have too much in your system that could be producing noise apart from the fans, maybe replace them if you can with some slipstreams, i purchased some 800's recently, quiet as a mouse at 12v.

i dont really know how quiet the CPU cooler it? i think the PSU should be alright.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Sun May 18, 2008 8:08 am

Thanks...

What i do know is that i havent done enough to reduce the noise of the GPU and the HDDs.

Solution is problably going to be to sell of my 2 HDDs and buy 1 samsung 750gb HDD (notoriously the quietest or one of the quietest 3.25" HDDs) and put it in a Scythe quiet drive and then fasten it onto a foam bed.

For the GPU i am problably just going to put a Accelero S1 onto it and then place the bottom Noctua fan at the midle bay intake.

Im wondering about wheather or not i am going to buy a fancontroller as well. I will have 3 fans in my system with the cpu fan and im thinking about either buying 3x fan mate 2 or 1 fan controller. A fan controller might make it a bit thougher to manage cables.

Either way i think that after i have implemented these changes i will have a inaudible system at 1m. And thats really all im aming at right now.

But all of these changes will problably be implemented after a couple of months because i cant find some parts right now as well as im a bit tired of pulling out the P182 right now.

FartingBob
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Post by FartingBob » Sun May 18, 2008 8:43 am

AckeDman wrote: Solution is problably going to be to sell of my 2 HDDs and buy 1 samsung 750gb HDD (notoriously the quietest or one of the quietest 3.25" HDDs) and put it in a Scythe quiet drive and then fasten it onto a foam bed.
Id get the 640GB Western Digital. Its the same or cheaper price per gig, is only 2 platters and uses some GP technology (although its not part of the series) so is pretty much the quietest non-GP 3.5"drive around, and top 3 in most speed tests.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sun May 18, 2008 8:45 am

hmm, after thinking about the design of the P182, I thought of a few other things.

Definitely flip over your power supply, it will actually begin to run cooler, but you'll have to also tape over the vents around the PSU area of the P182. Not the PSU itself, but the surrounding grills on the P182. This will force the PSU to draw air from the front (thus going over the drives) and then out the back. If you leave the grills open, all the hot air the PSU blows out can just be sucked back in, and that's not going to help at all.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/ ... G_2444.jpg
^that's my system right now. the front panel is mesh with filters. I have no fans mounted right at the front of the case, but if you look in the drive cage, you can see i have a 92mm fan blowing towards my 9600GT and my soundcard (because both get rather warm).

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/ ... G_2443.jpg
^in that picture, you can see that the PCI slots are not vented, and only the 9600GT has a vented one for exhaust (it's level with the Accelero, so you can't see it in that photo).

My CPU fan is hardwired @ 7v, the 92mm fan by the 9600GT is also hardwired @ 7v. The exhaust fan is plugged into the CPU PWM plug (but it is not a PWM fan. It runs @ ~1160RPM and is the only audible fan in the system at less than 1m. if you walk more than 1m away from my desk, you wont hear my system.

don't worry about buying new and having so many different things to silence your computer, just try to work with what you have. if you try and are completely unsuccessful, then you know its time for new stuff.

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Mon May 19, 2008 12:53 pm

Yes i agree with most of the posts in here.
Closing the rear vents around the psu made my lower compartment temp increase at least in my configuration though.
I have 2 hd enclosed in Scythe enclosures located in the lower compartment and after closing the holes the temp of them increased.
My PSU is a Seasonic 500w with a fan swap with a Scythe 21F fan undervolted so it doesn't expel to much air to begin with.So i propose to test the temp before you make the final arrangement.
Apart from that a good after market sink(as the ones mentioned) for the GPU together with an undervolted fan will make you rig noise signature quite acceptable(I think you can run it passively also without problems).

This is a link also that how you can direct the airflow to the GPU.
In my configuration the upper P180 vent is closed,it will help more for sound escaping and recirculating air something tht you don't want


viewtopic.php?t=47752

hej då (I begin having Swedish lessons the past 4 months and good luck with your rig)

Modo
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Post by Modo » Mon May 19, 2008 1:08 pm

Make sure the hard disks are suspended, and not tightened in the cage. Of course, they shouldn't just lay there, but if you screw the hard disks in too tightly, they resonate with the case, and no rubber will help against that. Fixing the resonation problem won't silence the hard disks completely, but it might reduce some buzzing sounds.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Tue May 20, 2008 1:05 am

lor77 wrote:Yes i agree with most of the posts in here.
Closing the rear vents around the psu made my lower compartment temp increase at least in my configuration though.
I have 2 hd enclosed in Scythe enclosures located in the lower compartment and after closing the holes the temp of them increased.
My PSU is a Seasonic 500w with a fan swap with a Scythe 21F fan undervolted so it doesn't expel to much air to begin with.So i propose to test the temp before you make the final arrangement.
Apart from that a good after market sink(as the ones mentioned) for the GPU together with an undervolted fan will make you rig noise signature quite acceptable(I think you can run it passively also without problems).

This is a link also that how you can direct the airflow to the GPU.
In my configuration the upper P180 vent is closed,it will help more for sound escaping and recirculating air something tht you don't want


viewtopic.php?t=47752

hej då (I begin having Swedish lessons the past 4 months and good luck with your rig)
How do you have your HDDs in scythe enclosures? do you have 2.5" HDDs and a 3.25" enclosure?

I know 2.5" HDDs are alot better for noise but i want a 7200rpm and big HDD and thats not available in 2.5" format. So what im going to do is get some good foam and fasten the foam onto the bottom of the 5.25" drive bay and then place a Samsung HDD(inside a Scythe enclosure) onto the foam and then fasten it onto the foam so the HDD doesnt move around in there.

Hopefully the Foam along with the Scythe enclose along with the HDDs native good vibration and/or idle/seek noise signature should make it as quiet as possible.

I am not going to give up! I will keep replacing parts and undervolting all the fans in the system untill i cant hear it from where im sitting....

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Tue May 20, 2008 1:45 am

What i've done in the lower compartment is that i removed the hd cage along with its the rails at the floor of the P180.
I also removed the frame that hold the fan in the same compartment so i was left with enough space to hold 2 3.5inc Scythe enclosures.
My hard disk are 2 of the quietest 3.5inc around here the SamsungHD501LJ and theWD10EACS,both enclosed and are sitting one on top of the other separated by small pieces of foam so that air can pass freely between them.
I used to have one fan infront of them but nowdays the fan is removed.
The temp is 32-34 C' for both drives without the fan with ambient around 20-25 C' which is quite acceptable.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 am

OK... very interesting. I am open to this but i have one koncern. How do you make shure that the HDDs dont just fly around inside the case if you happen to pick it up to work with it?

What i mean is have you fastend the HDDs to the bottom of the chassi or something of the sort?

Thanks for the constant input everyone and especially lor77.

I know its possible to have a somewhat quiet comp because the OEM computers ive seen at retailers have been quieter then mine... but i think they on the other hand problably have bad temps.

Also i would like to know if there is any diffrence between the Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ 500gb and the Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD753LJ 750gb HDDs when it comes to noise.

I find it odd that SPCR havent reviewed HDDs above 640gb is it? Is it that they are not yet available in 750gb format or is it that they are only quiet up to a certain amount of space on the same HDD?

sanse
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Post by sanse » Tue May 20, 2008 5:55 am

AckeDman wrote:Also i would like to know if there is any diffrence between the Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD501LJ 500gb and the Samsung SpinPoint F1 HD753LJ 750gb HDDs when it comes to noise.
according to a test i read: the 750gb spinpoint makes more noise than the 500gb and the 1tb spinpoint makes more noise than the 750gb.

the western digital gp drives make significantly less noise albeit against a (little) lower performance.

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Tue May 20, 2008 6:21 am

How do you make sure that the HDDs dont just fly around inside the case if you happen to pick it up to work with it?
Actually i haven't though of a way to fasten those hd in the lower compartment.To be honest i didn't want to hard mount them in any way.
I just have to be a bit careful of how to handle the case and thats it,i've been having this configuration for a year now without any problems.
Regarding the hard drives noise the 1 TB GP makes less noise but in contrary the performance is lower than the 1 TB Spinpoint due to its rotational
speed .
If you want performance go with the Sammie if you decide for silence go fo the GP.
http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchm ... h_sort.php
Check the thread for some insight.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Wed May 21, 2008 5:33 am

OK... im on my way. Ive ordered a 750gb western digital green power and a scythe enclosure. I have some foam(be it bad foam) left over that i will have the enclosure sitting on.

With rivatuner i can turn down the fan speed to 25% instead of only 50% thats possible with expert tool.

I have lots to do this weekend.

1. Tape up the top vent with electrical tape so i can remove the tape easily.

2. Put in the new HDD in the enclosure on the foam bed in the bottom compartment.

3. Put fan controller on the 3 fan mates ive ordered.

If the only really soundsource that eminates is coming from the GPU after this i will be really happy.

Blacktree
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Post by Blacktree » Wed May 21, 2008 1:59 pm

My solution for the GPU noise problem was to buy a 9600GT with an AC Accelero already installed (made by ECS, and sold at Newegg). But I guess it's a little late for that. Still, you should consider installing an Accelero or a similar fanless heatpipe unit on your video card.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Thu May 22, 2008 12:47 am

i have a quick question.

If i stop all the fans in my system and i still hear noise. does that mean its from the HDDs? I have all in all 6 fans in my system including PSU and GPU fan.

If i stop all of them the noise should stop as well... not taking into account HDD vibration.

I will try this when i redo my system this weekend... i will try open test bed and boot up the comp without any fans... i will also place the HDD on a foam bed and hopefully this should mean there is no noise.

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Fri May 23, 2008 1:39 am

Generally speaking more fans equal more noise.
I wouldn't know why you need all those 6 fans but i think there are more than enough.
You can test it yourself as you mention to see the difference between the stop and starting of some of them at least.
But again my opinion is that you have fans in excess.
I have 3 fans undervolted(including the PSU and VGA) in my rig for a totally negative pressure setup without any problems and with acceptable temp.
Anyway keep us informed about your findings and your improvement in your way of silencing.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Mon May 26, 2008 5:37 am

Ok... quick update.

I did the HDD swap and i couldnt get the bottom chamber HDD mounting brackets off fast and my girlfriend is getting mighty tired of me opening up the comp at putting all the parts all over the living room every weekend so i just put the HDD in the Scythe enclosure and put the enclosure in one of the 5,25" bays. This meant i had to remove the scythe kamabay but it doesent matter since i moved the Noctua fan i had by the bottom HDD compartment to the upper HDD compartment as intake. I tried taping upp the PCI bracket vents to see if it would do anything for the GPU but it just made the temps worse.

I taped up the top vent with electrical tape and i think the soundlevel is better but the temps are at ~41c at idle on hottest core and ~63c after 3-4min of prime.. I am running 1 intake, 1 CPUfan and 1 exhaust at the moment.

I have them all hooked up to zalman fan mates but i might have broken the exhaust fan mate because it doesent goes up to more then 600-700rpm and doesnt undervolt to under 500rpm (Noctua NF-P12).

Also i have a question, Is it good to have negative pressure? Should the intake be at 600, the cpufan at 700 and the exhaust at 800-900rpm?

I will shurely need to return the exhaust fan mate and i think it can just run at full speed. I dont notice a diffrence between 1200rpm(11v) and 500rpm(5v) so i might as well just run the exhaust at full speed for now.

Since i have gotten such a low tone almost inaudible sound im very satisfied. Now if i watch a movie the ambient sound(the movie) would make the computers low tone almost inaudible sound in effect INAUDIBLE!

I can get the accelero S1 but since i dont wanna push my GF anymore i will wait. It will problably take me some time to get used to this soundlevel enough that i might get annoyed at this soundlevel.

I will however try removing the tape on the top vent to see what effect it has on the temps of the cpu.


I know have lots of space at the bottom chamber. In a couple of months i might try and remove the chamber rails and put the HDD there on foam instead.

This case is very useful.

One thing in particular that i might try out when im feeling like improving the cfm to sound ratio to get the cpu to 3.5ghz stable at a low soundlevel is..

1. After putting the HDD in bottom compartment i will have 3 spaces of 5.25" free. Meaning i will be able to use the kamabay again.

2. Put a lowspeed fan in the top vent and pad the inner body of the antec wing with foam so that the sound(and air) has to travel to the back of the case.


These are only 2 things i can come up with up the top of my head. One thing i wish Antec would have done during the P180 --> P182 revision is to make mounting holes for both 120mm and 140mm fans at the back and top.

It would have made this case so much better considering Noctua and Scythe are problably gonna create bigger more cfm fans at the same soundlevel... wich means u wouldnt have to change from the Q6600 for a long time since the only thing that prevents quads from going to 3.5-3.8 without problem is usually temps.

Coolermaster was smart in this regard.

Oh yeah... i will problably post pics when i have the time.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:26 am

Lor77:

Could you tell me how i can remove the lower compartment HDD rack mounts? and the stupidly build fan mount. Cant use a screwdriver and i tried using a spearlike tool i had and thought maybe thats what its for but i dont really know how thats supossed to work.

Also does anyone know if theres any diskussions or reviews that have been made about what the optimal airflow setupd of the P182 is? I mean i know that if i have the back as exhaust and the top as intake it would be ineffective unless i use some sort of ducting because the air would otherwise just come in from the top and almost everything would exit straight away without going thru the cooler.

But what IS the optimal set up then? Would it be good to have back and top as exhaust? etc..

Ash
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Post by Ash » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:24 am

i got mine yesterday, im looking to get rid of that lower fan mount aswell, i didnt know it was fixed with rivets, i think im going to have to drill it out. unless anyone else knows an easier way.

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:01 am

AckeDman you have to drill the rivets i think this is what they are called.
You have to be careful to choose a small diameter drill so you will not heart the case(Some tiny hole will be left open).This is what i did at least in my case.
About the second part of of your question im also interested in reading some more proposals about the optimal airflow.

AckeDman
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Post by AckeDman » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:20 am

Thanks for the help lor77.

Hmm... Does the E6600 run alot cooler then the Q6600? I cant really make a comparison between your system and mine since the cputemps u get are going to be diffrent since you have a dualcore and i have a quadcore.

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:32 am

I don't think that there will be a big difference in temps with the Q core though.
The TDP Is 105 watt for the Q and 65 watt for the E.
However the stand by power consumption should be almost the same for both Cores with 38 watts.
So in stand by mode we should be getting almost the same temps as in most of cases.
Now if we are gaming the gap will increase in your favor since the Q is more power hungry.

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